Guild Wars 2

So we know ANet is looking to fix culling (player pop-in), and they plan on some super secret fix to alleviate queues (which their lack of new WvW content seems to be fixing for itself), but what actual additions or changes can we expect to WvW?

1) Will we ever get bigger or more WvW maps?
2) Will there be new goals for WvW outside of objective capping?
3) Can we expect a sprawling WvW dungeon?
4) Can we expect more WvW mini-dungeons?
5) Will we see some rule changes or implements that make being the winning team more difficult and the losing team more easily rectified?
6) Will there ever be special WvW abilities associated with character ranks?
7) Will we ever see changes to how players are identified in the field?
8) Will we ever have a WvW player ranking list based on a series of metrics (most healing, most kills, most assists, kill/death ratios, most trebuchet hits, most keeps captured, hero of the day, etc.)?
9) Will you implement other cosmetic, time-saving, or informational advantages to help make WvW profitable for ANet?

C’mon ANet, please throw us a bone for what’s to come…. a few bones even!

1) We don’t need bigger maps, we need different mechanics and some changes to make the maps feel bigger.
2) Such as?
3) That’s PvE, not PvP. If they added that we would have to hear how PvPers are griefing the people in the dungeons who are trying to PvE on a WvW map. I would be one of those people killing the PvEers in the dungeon just because they are taking a spot from a PvPer.
4) See above.
5) Orbs were taken away. That helped a lot.
6) Hope not, would create more imbalance and would make it harder for new players to get into WvW.
7) You mean the XXX Invader [TAG] thing? Why?
8) I hope not. That would make WvW into more of an individual thing and not a team based thing.
9) Cosmetic I am fine with – anything that gives any type of edge whatsoever – hell no.

moirweyn.9872:

1) We don’t need bigger maps, we need different mechanics and some changes to make the maps feel bigger.
2) Such as?
3) That’s PvE, not PvP. If they added that we would have to hear how PvPers are griefing the people in the dungeons who are trying to PvE on a WvW map. I would be one of those people killing the PvEers in the dungeon just because they are taking a spot from a PvPer.
4) See above.
5) Orbs were taken away. That helped a lot.
6) Hope not, would create more imbalance and would make it harder for new players to get into WvW.
7) You mean the XXX Invader [TAG] thing? Why?
8) I hope not. That would make WvW into more of an individual thing and not a team based thing.
9) Cosmetic I am fine with – anything that gives any type of edge whatsoever – hell no.

1) No, I think we need bigger maps.
3) A dungeon I wouldn’t mind, I’ve done PvP-dungeons in other games before and they were fun stuff.
6) Don’t assume something like DAoC stuff could be minor or fluff stuff.

moirweyn.9872:

1) We don’t need bigger maps, we need different mechanics and some changes to make the maps feel bigger.
2) Such as?
3) That’s PvE, not PvP. If they added that we would have to hear how PvPers are griefing the people in the dungeons who are trying to PvE on a WvW map. I would be one of those people killing the PvEers in the dungeon just because they are taking a spot from a PvPer.
4) See above.
5) Orbs were taken away. That helped a lot.
6) Hope not, would create more imbalance and would make it harder for new players to get into WvW.
7) You mean the XXX Invader [TAG] thing? Why?
8) I hope not. That would make WvW into more of an individual thing and not a team based thing.
9) Cosmetic I am fine with – anything that gives any type of edge whatsoever – hell no.

1- Possibly, but I will give you this fact to think about, every single stronghold in the battlegrounds or borderlands is easily within treb range from each other.

2-The problem is every single action a player takes can be quantified with a point value, what the game needs is something that changes the game that can’t be given a point value.

3- The players need something other than blindly zerging from tower to tower, it’s the players that create the fun amongst themselves, the game is simply a sandbox for them to utilize. If you respond and say that you don’t have to zerg, I will respond and tell you that I’ve been part of “strike teams” and the goal of a strike team is to avoid the zerg and circumvent PVPing and attack NPCs, over and over. Fundamentally wrong.

4- It’s always fun for players to complete content while under the constant threat of enemy attack, it makes the player more connected to what is happening onscreen. As long as there isn’t mobs EVERYWHERE cough moas cough it would greatly increase the immersion a player feels.

5- Orbs taken away, and nothing to replace them with. If you tell me they are going to fix them later, well where is our fix for the Stonemist Keep Lord? Furthermore, there are several huge factors that attribute to Zergs having an advantage at all times. The removal of healers comes to mind, once a player takes damage, they rush to the back of the zerg, use their selfheal, and they are no worse for wear. The downed state also ensures that it’s kitten near impossible for superior numbers to lose.

6- Possibly true, however it would be nice to have some sort of character progression.

7- Once again, it’s the players that create the fun, not the game. I understand the concerns about griefing though, and a simple checkbox option to block the enemy teams whispers and shouts would be sufficent. Very little reason not to have it for players who want it.

8-I agree with you on this, a rankings board belongs on something like sPvP.

9-Also agree, nothing that gives an advantage in gameplay, however it seems Anet cares very little about WvW, even after it continues to be a huge part of the game, we’ve heard very little from Anet.

cap of 250 supply carried by players per map please this would make sides use more tactics and less mindless zerging maby make it so a commander can see how much supply people on the minimap are carrying in little #s ont he green dots
with this they could make seige cheaper add back rewards for dolyaks remove aoe cap on seige damage

We definitely need more opportunity for sophisticated tactics to be deployed. At the moment its either
1) Join a Zerg and go knock on doors
2) Small numbers harass targets such as supply camps
3) Zergs up against bigger Zergs using Mesmer bombs

The above can all be fun and intricate but its not enough to attract more PvErs who are WvW curious from giving it a sustained try. We need game mechanics that reward greater team work for both large and small groups.

Yep, ANet needs to make WvW profitable or they’ll have no incentive to expand on it. Obviously, the idea of buying advantage would RUIN the game, so that’s not what I meant. For instance, consider the idea of adding WvW titles with small fluff and/or minor abilities. They could then pop the WvW rank boosters in the chests much like EXP. Everyone will get there eventually. Same concept.

Outside of that, let’s look at WvW map size. I can get anywhere on these maps within a few minutes. It makes death meaningless. It makes feint attacks meaningless. It basically limits your strategy to who can place trebs in the right spot first. I am of the mindset that says you should seriously consider the risk of marching deep into enemy territory. It shouldn’t be something you do every single day all the time.

Also, a WvW dungeon is not PvE. A PvE dungeon is PvE. I’m talking about a large-scale WvW dungeon, one that doesn’t fill up queues for the borderlands/battlegrounds. There is nothing wrong with mixing in a little PvE with WvW.

Also, I love the EB mini-dungeon. If you are in there griefing your own team, well, you’re allowed to ignore the irony here.

Seeing player names in the battlefield helps build rivalry. You might care about who you fight. Simply block (or allow the option to block) communication/mail from one server to another if either party is in WvW. That is quite easy to do since the framework is already in the game.

Removing the orbs did help to balance WvW, but not a lot. Barring some exception, most games are still decided in the first 24 to 48 hours. How about some other WvW objectives? For example, something like an orb that can change hands frequently, or something to buff your server outside of WvW, etc.

This really isn’t meant to be a suggestion thread, it’s meant to ask ANet what they are working on and I threw in some examples of things they could very well be doing, and I just asked them to throw a bone. We’ll see….

1) through 9) – not any earlier than the next paid expansion of GW2.

ANet has inexplicably decided to not monetize WvW, despite the huge number of players. No gems = no support.

Erebus Delirium.4892:

So we know ANet is looking to fix culling (player pop-in), and they plan on some super secret fix to alleviate queues (which their lack of new WvW content seems to be fixing for itself), but what actual additions or changes can we expect to WvW?

1) Will we ever get bigger or more WvW maps?
2) Will there be new goals for WvW outside of objective capping?
3) Can we expect a sprawling WvW dungeon?
4) Can we expect more WvW mini-dungeons?
5) Will we see some rule changes or implements that make being the winning team more difficult and the losing team more easily rectified?
6) Will there ever be special WvW abilities associated with character ranks?
7) Will we ever see changes to how players are identified in the field?
8) Will we ever have a WvW player ranking list based on a series of metrics (most healing, most kills, most assists, kill/death ratios, most trebuchet hits, most keeps captured, hero of the day, etc.)?
9) Will you implement other cosmetic, time-saving, or informational advantages to help make WvW profitable for ANet?

C’mon ANet, please throw us a bone for what’s to come…. a few bones even!

1)wvw maps are fine at the current size. there needs not be more of them either.
2)the only goal that wvw is lacking now is orbs need to be readded once they are fixed. the orb stats were fine before imho.
3)wvw does not need dungeons. the puzzle dungeons are bad enough as is.
4)see 3
5) pvp matches being won long before the match is over is endemic in esports and games these days. the only games i know of that avoid this are wow arena/bgs and valve online pvp fps’s. it won’t stop gw2 from becoming an esport in spvp or wvw though, for the same reasons it didn’t stop LoL from becoming the most popular esport currently.
6)let’s hope not. lack of endless mudlfation and grinding combat effectivness edges is a primary feature of this game. many of us have invested hundreds into this game because of it. if we wanted endless stat/combat effectiveness progression, we’d go play a wow clone.
7)all we need is guild tags. if you want individual recognition that badly, make a one man guild for when you run in wvw. don’t be surprised if the guild you usually run with gets up set though.
8)wvw does not need a player ladder. it’s a group/guild/server effort, not a individual glory acitvity. it does not belong here, it is not wanted here. go to spvp if you want individual player ladder ranks.
9)all wvw really needs is proper multi group grouping system so when guilds like mine that field 5-15 people in a session get together, we don’t spend time fighting the ui and juggling groups, and instead can focus entirely on having fun and pvping in the classic traditonal mmo pvp setting that wvw offers.

one thing that would nice is if wvw gear was as advertised and not a monuemntal grind to get those stats via wvw participation. it’s completely contrary to their “gold rule” blog from prelaunch, and their “manifesto” video from prelaunch.

If you give players all carrot and no stick, you will have many less hungry players. When people aren’t hungry, they don’t eat. If they don’t eat, they’re not buying food. If they’re not buying gems, ANet stops making money!

Next, you can’t compare a game of WvW that lasts an entire week to a game of LoL that doesn’t even last 1% as long. WvW is not an e-sport. It’s not fair, it’s not designed to be fair. You said it yourself, if you want fair, play sPvP. If WvW were also just as fair, it would cannibalize players from sPvP. There is plenty of reason to help out the underdog in WvW. There is plenty of reason to give more to do in WvW.

Another logical fallacy is to suggest that if WvW does add some sort of progress then it becomes a WoW clone. That doesn’t even make sense. There is a ton of progression in GW2. That’s the thing that makes you feel like you truly made your character into what it is.

Hard lines are drawn in a sporting arena. In a sandbox, you make your own lines. Personally, I don’t like playing inside the confines of pre-existing norms, and sometimes WvW lets me escape them — only to glue right back into place when needed.

Making the maps bigger, adding more to do, these things expand the arsenal of creativity in WvW. I think many of you would agree. If you didn’t, sPvP would probably satisfy you just fine..

So how about it ANet? Wha’cha got coming for us?

I would like to see three different themed borderland maps ala DAoC realms. They could be themed differently much like the three sides of EB.

At the moment it doesn’t look to me that ArenaNet has a grand vision for WvWvW beyond what is currently existing. I haven’t seen any plans for any kind of progression, improved mechanisms for organization, or an idea to address the silliness (in my view) that is their scoring system.

I am rather disappointed by the lack of a clear vision but it is their game and WvW is somewhat fun as it is.

I do wish that they would introduce a gear progression via badges that are, basically, cool looking skins.

I also wish that they’d introduce more levels to the command ranks that allow for actual groups and, again, purchased via karma and badges.

Finally, I really want them to link points to population balance. If one team that is severely under populated takes over objectives and holds them it should be worth a ton of points versus taking and holding objectives when you outnumber your opponent. This would remove the whole “night capping” issue.

Buuuut… again, no vision as of yet.

Erebus Delirium.4892:

If you give players all carrot and no stick, you will have many less hungry players. When people aren’t hungry, they don’t eat. If they don’t eat, they’re not buying food. If they’re not buying gems, ANet stops making money!

Next, you can’t compare a game of WvW that lasts an entire week to a game of LoL that doesn’t even last 1% as long. WvW is not an e-sport. It’s not fair, it’s not designed to be fair. You said it yourself, if you want fair, play sPvP. If WvW were also just as fair, it would cannibalize players from sPvP. There is plenty of reason to help out the underdog in WvW. There is plenty of reason to give more to do in WvW.

Another logical fallacy is to suggest that if WvW does add some sort of progress then it becomes a WoW clone. That doesn’t even make sense. There is a ton of progression in GW2. That’s the thing that makes you feel like you truly made your character into what it is.

Hard lines are drawn in a sporting arena. In a sandbox, you make your own lines. Personally, I don’t like playing inside the confines of pre-existing norms, and sometimes WvW lets me escape them — only to glue right back into place when needed.

Making the maps bigger, adding more to do, these things expand the arsenal of creativity in WvW. I think many of you would agree. If you didn’t, sPvP would probably satisfy you just fine..

So how about it ANet? Wha’cha got coming for us?

pretending my post has logical fallacies when your post is the opposite of logical is a logical fallacy.

also it’s unreasonable to expect people to be logical.

also logically, you should attempt to explore the full breadth of what is already offered before you start demanding more.

logically, countering arguments with little more than calling them a logical fallcy, with illogical 2ndaries, is illogical, and unreasonable.

dirtyklingon.2918:

pretending my post has logical fallacies when your post is the opposite of logical is a logical fallacy.

also it’s unreasonable to expect people to be logical.

also logically, you should attempt to explore the full breadth of what is already offered before you start demanding more.

logically, countering arguments with little more than calling them a logical fallcy, with illogical 2ndaries, is illogical, and unreasonable.

/facepalm — I’m going to pretend this isn’t a troll and that you actually believe what you wrote.

1. I pointed out exactly what it was you said that is a fallacy. You want to know which fallacy? The WoW clone comment was of the post hoc ergo propter hoc fallacy. Your other comment, suggesting that there should be no grind for WvW gear was simply ironic because there is a ton of grind in GW2, it’s just not nearly bad as other games — but it’s there.

2. I expect people to be logical, even though you told me I wasn’t being logical, then added that I shouldn’t expect people to….. be…. … (psst. that’s called a circular logic fallacy). Moving on…

3. I’m not “demanding” more now. I’m asking what, if anything, is in store for later, and if they would grace us with a sneak peek. There is a world of difference here (putting words in my mouth? That’s a strawman fallacy).

you have alot of illogical expectations for someone implying to be logical.

you also aren’t very good at this whole logic thing, try being reasonable instead. and maybe using arguments that are merit based, instead of playing the role of debate moderator as well as debate participant.

also you missed hte point- the game was advertised for years as not having the same type of endless grind as wow/wow clones/other mmo’s. please refer to anet blog post titled “the golden rule” and the anet youtube post “our manifesto”.

also wvw is an arena, it’s just a much larger arena than say lol maps or wow bg’s. it’s still more of an arena than lineage 2’s combat and economic based pvp systems pre f2p for example.

You derailed my thread about WvW because I, in three words, briefly addressed the fact you made a logical fallacy while moving to my next point. You responded with four paragraphs of nothing related to this topic. My shortcoming was falling for your game of moving the discussion to something entirely different.

So to SAVE this thread and get the discussion back on track, I ask people of their opinions on additions to WvW, if ANet should say anything to us, or if they should add anything at all.

EDIT: Forgot to add the fact that WvW is not an arena because you can bring in as much siege as you can afford, including upgraded super siege. These are game-changers and are a prime example of how WvW is most certainly NOT an arena and NOT equal.

alas no, i gave my opinions that were on topic, then you attacked my opinions not on their merit, but with your perception of their logic.

i don’t think wvw needs dungeons, added progression, idnvidual player ladders or ranks, or any of the other hallmarks of the indundadation of what are called wow clones for the past 8 years.

wvw is fresh and innovative, even when it draws on prior games for inspiration. it need not copy those games however, and quite frankly it’s good how it is, and can only be effectively livened up further by players themselves.

devs stepping in with the implied suggestions, would debase the game further than what removal of the orbs and addition of jumping puzzles in beta did already.

The WvW jumping puzzles are amazing and prove how different and fun WvW is when objective focus shifts. We need MORE stuff like this to further differentiate WvW from arena combat.

Also, in case you missed it (as it was one of your main points), WvW is not an arena-style game, though it does share superficial similarities. Allowing outside factors to be among the greatest influence in WvW (super siege) proves my point — at least I think it does. Jumping puzzles further illustrate how different WvW is intended to be.

I’d like to see meaning being added for a guild claiming a structure. Any structure.

I think that whatever guild claims a structure should get influence for it over time.

I would like to see people who upgrade structures get a return on their purchase turning it into an investment. This, in turn, will lead to players having a vested interest in defending their holdings.

The return on investment should be very slow – perhaps to the tune of ten hours to get back the original purchase price. If it costs 20s to upgrade that would be 2s per hour. This means in a 24 hour period the person who purchased the upgrade, assuming the outpost was held for the entire duration, will have more than doubled their original investment.

I’d like to see more titles for WvW activities (taking outposts, defending, sieging, building siege items, etc etc) and the introduction of rare WvW events.

Basically, I’d like to see a vision for WvW that is WvW becoming a cornerstone of the game that rewards players for continued involvement and encourages players to keep playing.

They said from the outset, WvW is meant to allow casual players to participate on the same footing as any other player. There will be no ranks, abilities, etc. that would change that (as it did in DAOC and WAR).

The only thing I would ask to be changed is map size (slightly larger) and toning down the ability to move across map too fast (for example, limit mez portals to ONLY their own party).

A different set of maps that rotates in every other week that require different strategies would be a nice change. Having a 4 different sets for each week in a month would be even better.

One thing I did not make clear as the OP is that I do not necessarily want to see everything I used as examples of potential things to come added to the game. I really was just throwing it out there in search of some answers from ANet. These are my personal opinions:

1) Bigger/more maps, YES PLEASE, especially bigger maps and more to do on them.

2) See above.

3) WvW dungeon? If it’s done EXTREMELY well and separate from current WvW zones.

4) WvW mini-dungeons? I wouldn’t mind seeing more of these, I like them.

5) rule changes/implements for imbalanced scores? I think score needs an overhaul and the current score should be for back-end server matching only.

6) WvW abilities associated with character ranks? Probably NOT a good idea unless purely fluff or VERY minor, then I would love it.

7) Changes to how players are identified in the field? Torn on this and therefore I don’t care either way.

8) WvW player ranking lists? I love the idea but agree it is individualistic. But I also think that’s not inherently a bad thing. There could be guild ranking too!

9) Integrate WvW with gem store more closely? Clearly this is something that would benefit ANet (and then benefit us with more WvW features) and should only be done in a way that does not provide players with unfair advantages and only if WvW isn’t generating enough interest in the gem store.

WvW is dying, if you don’t see it you are blind. All they have done thus far is remove content from WvW instead of fixing/balancing it, and people are getting tired of it. WvW is a stagnant game type, they have literally added stuff to every other facet of the game aside from WvW.

WvW needs some sort of progression. As it stands now you have 0 to fight for. Server pride is a joke as >50% of the WvW population has moved servers at least once and will probably move again.