Guild Wars 2

Currently, there’s two ways to stop an enemy from upgrading, that’s to stop their supply (ie capture camps) or to just capture the tower/keep.

With the update to the upgrading system, there’s now only one way to stop a world from upgrading and that’s capturing the tower/keep. Capturing camps only delays your enemies’ upgrades.

I think they should, at the very least, add another mechanic to completely stop an enemy’s upgrade.

What do you guys think? If you agree, what other mechanic could you see them implementing?

edit: changed the title to something more suiting, imo

Keep Disabler. Horkhorkhork.

Yeah. It was mentioned on the BG forums that lower tier servers’ NA players would probably log into everything waypointed due to a low player presence outside of prime time. That would suck donkey balls.

Even in Tier 1, we have 2-5 hours between certain time zone prime times where almost nothing goes on.

I think auto-upgrades is a step in the right direction, but a step too far.

Reverence.6915:

Yeah. It was mentioned on the BG forums that lower tier servers’ NA players would probably log into everything waypointed due to a low player presence outside of prime time. That would suck donkey balls.

Even in Tier 1, we have 2-5 hours between certain time zone prime times where almost nothing goes on.

I think auto-upgrades is a step in the right direction, but a step too far.

Yeah, I definitely think this update was geared towards the lower tiers and smaller populated servers. I used to be on a low tiered server and the reason I moved was because it was nearly impossible to get anything done when we were just bouncing around focused on defending, there wasn’t much time or resources you can invest in upgrading. So this will help those servers out.

Reverence.6915:

Yeah. It was mentioned on the BG forums that lower tier servers’ NA players would probably log into everything waypointed due to a low player presence outside of prime time. That would suck donkey balls.

Even in Tier 1, we have 2-5 hours between certain time zone prime times where almost nothing goes on.

I think auto-upgrades is a step in the right direction, but a step too far.

Having cut my teeth in WvW on a tier 8 server last year, I can say that it was not uncommon to wake up to a BL that looks more like Skittles, or is the wrong color entirely, due mostly to nothing more than a 5-10 man late crew from one of the other two servers. People then spent the next 45 minutes walking an alpha golem or two around flipping everything back before work.

I shudder to think about the time that would have been involved had all that stuff been able to crank itself to T2 or T3 in the hours that it sat unflipped. As it was, roamers and camp flippers were able to keep things from getting out of hand, since they could effectively stop supply and at least keep the towers papered.

Auto-upgrades I suppose I can deal with, since it does remove certain elements of trolling. But unstoppable auto upgrades? That’s a bit much to swallow.

Auto-upgrades (as in an upgrade process that can run without player input/gold/etc) are great. Inevitable auto-upgrades are a problem. The fact that even taking camps can’t prevent upgrades from happening eventually is a problem. This is the one new change that I think really needs to be looked at; dolyaks should be a required part of the upgrading process for objectives, not optional.

Edit: And to answer your question, I think the current counters to upgrading (capturing camps and killing yaks) are perfectly fine, I really think those should still be counters to upgrading.

Auto-upgrade, means they should add in auto-downgrade to the game too.

Well, you know.

They are adding a new PVE dinosaur-fueled god gun to the new map that breaks down all outer gates. Maybe this is Anet’s way of balancing one unnecessary garbage mechanic with another?

DomAltares.8651:

Well, you know.

They are adding a new PVE dinosaur-fueled god gun to the new map that breaks down all outer gates. Maybe this is Anet’s way of balancing one unnecessary garbage mechanic with another?

Ugh why did you have to bring that up… I had almost convinced myself that stupid idea was a nightmare I had.

Jim Hunter.6821:

DomAltares.8651:

Well, you know.

They are adding a new PVE dinosaur-fueled god gun to the new map that breaks down all outer gates. Maybe this is Anet’s way of balancing one unnecessary garbage mechanic with another?

Ugh why did you have to bring that up… I had almost convinced myself that stupid idea was a nightmare I had.

Because it still gives me nightmares, and I like to share the love.

DomAltares.8651:

Well, you know.

They are adding a new PVE dinosaur-fueled god gun to the new map that breaks down all outer gates. Maybe this is Anet’s way of balancing one unnecessary garbage mechanic with another?

hahah thx for the laughter :p could really use that after getting so depressed and salty by considering the consequences of the updates. To bad the depression becomes even worse after you realize that they are gonna implement it and start to wonder how the anet dev team can really be that bad XD

DomAltares.8651:

Well, you know.

They are adding a new PVE dinosaur-fueled god gun to the new map that breaks down all outer gates. Maybe this is Anet’s way of balancing one unnecessary garbage mechanic with another?

oh gawd! that wasn’t a terrible nightmare i had? that was real?

DomAltares.8651:

Well, you know.

They are adding a new PVE dinosaur-fueled god gun to the new map that breaks down all outer gates. Maybe this is Anet’s way of balancing one unnecessary garbage mechanic with another?

Whenever I feel down, I remind myself that someone at Anet thought “I know what WvW needs – dinosaurs” and suddenly I can’t stop laughing.

As for unstoppable auto-upgrades, yeah, that’s an absolutely horrid idea.

Maybe just make the auto upgrade take longer without the supply camps?

uhohhotdog.3598:

Maybe just make the auto upgrade take longer without the supply camps?

That’s what they’re doing. We’re arguing that that’s still not enough; under the current system you can completely halt upgrade by not letting yaks get into objectives, under the new system you won’t be able to do that (you’ll only be able to delay upgrades).

This has been on my mind all day, how about making so that captured camps send ‘sabotaged’ dolyaks into enemy keeps/towers to downgrade them?

I think the auto-upgrade and removal of upgrade costs is a good idea, but not entirely thought-out…

Some random ideas:
The upgrades should not progress at all as long as the “neighbour” camps to an objective are not captured by the owner of said objective.

If one of the camps is captured by the objective owners, the upgrade should progress automatically, but very slowly. If both camps are captured, it should progress faster (at the speed that is intended to be the auto-upgrade speed right now). Each Dolyak reaching the objective should give a boost to the upgrade speed (as intended to be implemented right now).

Another possibility would be, that as soon as the neighbour camps are in enemy hands, the auto-upgrade should drain lots of supplys from the objective (like really sucking it dry very fast), so that defenders actually have a reason to get their camps back asap.

No idea if any of this would be easy to implement. But the announced changes sound like my favourite tasks in WvW (upgrading and defending camps and objectives) will get very uninteresting…

Rayti.6531:

I think the auto-upgrade and removal of upgrade costs is a good idea, but not entirely thought-out…

Some random ideas:
The upgrades should not progress at all as long as the “neighbour” camps to an objective are not captured by the owner of said objective.

If one of the camps is captured by the objective owners, the upgrade should progress automatically, but very slowly. If both camps are captured, it should progress faster (at the speed that is intended to be the auto-upgrade speed right now). Each Dolyak reaching the objective should give a boost to the upgrade speed (as intended to be implemented right now).

This is a nice thought, but… correct me if I’m wrong, but what do you do about camps that supply more than 2 keeps/towers, NEc/NWc supply 1 tower and 2 keeps (one being garrison) this system would have enemies prioritize NEc/NWc over other camps. Do you make these have stronger upgrades?

Rayti.6531:

Another possibility would be, that as soon as the neighbour camps are in enemy hands, the auto-upgrade should drain lots of supplys from the objective (like really sucking it dry very fast), so that defenders actually have a reason to get their camps back asap.

No idea if any of this would be easy to implement. But the announced changes sound like my favourite tasks in WvW (upgrading and defending camps and objectives) will get very uninteresting…

I, personally, think an auto-downgrading system like this is the only real counter to an auto-upgrading system they want to implement. It makes the most since when you think of using opposites as countering.

I also think this takes away objectives/task from WvW, like defending camps and upgrading, that players can do solo or in smaller groups. There’s just not much else other than scouting and roaming, if you want to play solo in WvW. It’s like Anet has decided that the only way they want you to play WvW is in a Zerg/Blob.

BrickFurious.7169:

Auto-upgrades (as in an upgrade process that can run without player input/gold/etc) are great. Inevitable auto-upgrades are a problem. The fact that even taking camps can’t prevent upgrades from happening eventually is a problem. This is the one new change that I think really needs to be looked at; dolyaks should be a required part of the upgrading process for objectives, not optional.

Edit: And to answer your question, I think the current counters to upgrading (capturing camps and killing yaks) are perfectly fine, I really think those should still be counters to upgrading.

YES, yes, and more yes. I missed this reply when I went into it again. But yes, totally agree to this. Reading my mind shivers

DomAltares.8651:

Jim Hunter.6821:

DomAltares.8651:

Well, you know.

They are adding a new PVE dinosaur-fueled god gun to the new map that breaks down all outer gates. Maybe this is Anet’s way of balancing one unnecessary garbage mechanic with another?

Ugh why did you have to bring that up… I had almost convinced myself that stupid idea was a nightmare I had.

Because it still gives me nightmares, and I like to share the love.

I had purged this from my memory. Thanks for bringing it back up

ChoChoBo.6503:

Reverence.6915:

Yeah. It was mentioned on the BG forums that lower tier servers’ NA players would probably log into everything waypointed due to a low player presence outside of prime time. That would suck donkey balls.

Even in Tier 1, we have 2-5 hours between certain time zone prime times where almost nothing goes on.

I think auto-upgrades is a step in the right direction, but a step too far.

Yeah, I definitely think this update was geared towards the lower tiers and smaller populated servers. I used to be on a low tiered server and the reason I moved was because it was nearly impossible to get anything done when we were just bouncing around focused on defending, there wasn’t much time or resources you can invest in upgrading. So this will help those servers out.

lol you read that completely wrong

it wouldn’t be easier for lower tier servers, you’d wake up to everything waypointed meaning that the enemy has T3 everything, possibly even your own garrison due to lower tier’s dead time zones.

If u think logging in prime time to try and crack a triple waypointed home BL is “easier”, i don’t know what to tell you.

Reverence.6915:

DomAltares.8651:

Jim Hunter.6821:

DomAltares.8651:

Well, you know.

They are adding a new PVE dinosaur-fueled god gun to the new map that breaks down all outer gates. Maybe this is Anet’s way of balancing one unnecessary garbage mechanic with another?

Ugh why did you have to bring that up… I had almost convinced myself that stupid idea was a nightmare I had.

Because it still gives me nightmares, and I like to share the love.

I had purged this from my memory. Thanks for bringing it back up

Yeah this one I dont agree with, especially in lower tiers. Higher tiers will be able to fight 24/7 for this, lower tiers all it will take is a good sneaky 5 man team to take this over on off times.

This weapon really needs something else to activate it. Like gathering and carrying enough of something to it. Making it very difficult to use. It should also take time to fire it with an alert that it has been started. So the other server has a chance to react and interrupt it.

The guard buffs are whatever, this weapon is a complete game changer and if not done correctly and does not make a server work for it, it may be too much.

I wouldnt mind the idea that you have to work to accomplish it but the other server can “steal” that work by interrupting your fire and taking over the weapon.

This would make “feeding” the weapon a risk and you have to decide, do I even start this, much like the chieftain and Svanir in Forest on PvP. Those you can do all the work and some thief can run up and steal it from you. It adds an interesting game play and makes people think if they even want to start killing one of those NPC’s. (though I do admit, many dont think too hard.)

ChoChoBo.6503:

This is a nice thought, but… correct me if I’m wrong, but what do you do about camps that supply more than 2 keeps/towers, NEc/NWc supply 1 tower and 2 keeps (one being garrison) this system would have enemies prioritize NEc/NWc over other camps. Do you make these have stronger upgrades?

Those two camps supply only keeps (Garrison and Hills or Garrison and Bay). They are already a priority target for that reason: to starve the keeps and to provide supply for an assault on them.

North camp supplies Garrison from both directions and is the only source of supply for the north towers. This makes it a priority target for shutting down the north towers as well as starving Garrison.

South camp supplies both south towers and both keeps, while SE and SW camps supply one keep and one tower each. Of course, all three are frequently targeted simply due to their proximity to the enemy entry points and their distance from support if the keeps aren’t waypointed.

So you could make a case for ANY of the camps to have stronger upgrades. All of them are critical to multiple objectives. No camp serves fewer than two, North serves three (or four if you count Garrison twice), and South serves four.

Here is a counter.. Take the objective if you don’t want to see it get upgraded..

My proposal
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/wuv/Siege-Yaks/first#post5091379

Well for one thing, enemies cant put waypoints in your borderlands anymore. Or at your EB spawn keep. They can hold the keep but not waypoint it. So no you will never wake up to a waypoint in all the enemy keeps on your borderland.

The only waypoint upgrade that remains is for Stonemist.

ChoChoBo.6503:

Currently, there’s two ways to stop an enemy from upgrading, that’s to stop their supply (ie capture camps) or to just capture the tower/keep.

With the update to the upgrading system, there’s now only one way to stop a world from upgrading and that’s capturing the tower/keep. Capturing camps only delays your enemies’ upgrades.

I think they should, at the very least, add another mechanic to completely stop an enemy’s upgrade.

What do you guys think? If you agree, what other mechanic could you see them implementing?

edit: changed the title to something more suiting, imo

I think they made it harder for roamers to contribute to their server, sniping yaks and flipping camps to stop an upgrade on an important enemy structure to make it easier to flip later is out of the question, if you want to contribute you will have to group up and zerg…

Now in saying that, being forced into zerging or group work to contribute to the server is going to seperate a lot of players, there’s already a lot of complaints about “roamers not doing anything except killing people” .