Guild Wars 2

I lead a havoc guild down in T6…..I don’t understand what everyone is worried about with these? Will it encourage people to blob….I dunno…maybe I guess…but…

From my perspective I like these changes and here is why…. we usually will start off protecting our home bl…flipping camps…fighting other havoks/roamers on the map and defending structures…..then we usually we go havoc ebg or another bl. As a roamer when defending/upgrading….your usually running around like a mad man protecting upgraded camps, starting upgrades on structures, defending towers/keeps and a lot of times just trying to upgrade stuff puts you way out of position to defend things…like running all the way to SW camp to upgrade it then a hills is getting attacked with no WP so now you gotta haul kitten all the way over there hoping to make it in time. With this all we have to do now is focus on defending which IMO is much much better. If it encourages more zerging so be it so long as I can focus more on defense instead of upgrading, that allows me more time to prep defenses and build siege….it also lets me use the supply in the structure much more effectively and efficiently… so I guess i’m saying, I don’t care if it encourages blobbing since I can spend more of time defending and preparing against it.

That may work for those that like defending completely outnumbered while the zergs just PvD, until you run for your life or get run over, but more zergs won’t be a good thing. Perhaps it takes being on a server that has in the past been on the receiving end of a server that would ONLY blob, but this isn’t a good thing even if you come into everything fully upgraded before they would roll through.

Before with few people you can defend hills and bay at the same time… You use WP to join one of the keep when the scout call for help.
Now there will be only 1 WP (without citadel) in garri…. If there is some ennemy on the south west camp no one will be able to WP at hills to defend the camp…
And the scout will not go to defend, because if he dies he will need to walk from garri to hills again…. And then he will not be able to use siege to defend….
Actually the scout can go to the camp, if he should die he can respawn immediatly at the keep…

Sich.7103:

Before with few people you can defend hills and bay at the same time… You use WP to join one of the keep when the scout call for help.
Now there will be only 1 WP (without citadel) in garri…. If there is some ennemy on the south west camp no one will be able to WP at hills to defend the camp…
And the scout will not go to defend, because if he dies he will need to walk from garri to hills again…. And then he will not be able to use siege to defend….
Actually the scout can go to the camp, if he should die he can respawn immediatly at the keep…

I agree the WP thing sucks for defending…I was merely referring to the auto upgrades.

i get that in t6 things are different but i think u overlook the issue that all playerbased control is slowly taken away from us. wvw is gonna be eotm permanently so maybe as u havent really experienced the higher tiers u might like eotm, but many of us have a ton of alarm bells going up right now…wvw as we know it is gonna be 100% changed and wont be a pvp map anymore its more of an eb jumpingpuzzle type of game play from now on where upgrades dont matter or siege or anything but jumping and capping pve shrines

Yes yes, moar zerg, moar PvD. Anet doing their Kevorkian routine on WvW, yes.

selan.8354:

i get that in t6 things are different but i think u overlook the issue that all playerbased control is slowly taken away from us. wvw is gonna be eotm permanently so maybe as u havent really experienced the higher tiers u might like eotm, but many of us have a ton of alarm bells going up right now…wvw as we know it is gonna be 100% changed and wont be a pvp map anymore its more of an eb jumpingpuzzle type of game play from now on where upgrades dont matter or siege or anything but jumping and capping pve shrines

LoL, I have been in tiers 1-6 and on EU as well. Is this Dekar’s account? I understand the alarm bells about the WP’s but I think the upgrades thing is nice, but I understand the concern of things being taken away.

The auto upgrade option isn’t the problem.. it’s the auto upgrade without the option to deny the upgrade… and that the upgrade is “Free”. you don’t have to do anything for it, and it WILL happen. Thats the problem

your post seems to seem you are a small scale havoc group that roams around flipping camps, killing yaks, and finding fights.

The new proposed system kills your group. Because Camps are not important, because Yaks are not important. There is no reason to defend a yak, as the tower/keep is going upgrade regardless of your efforts around those supply camps/yaks.

So what is left for your havoc group to do? where will your fights be located? if the enemy doesn’t need to leave it’s keep to get an upgrade going.. that they can just remain indoors.. all day.

The game starts to lean towards zerg on zerg fights.. that the only way you can take those fully upgraded.. fully turtled objectives is to zerg it.

buh-bye havoc group/

MasterD.4790:

selan.8354:

i get that in t6 things are different but i think u overlook the issue that all playerbased control is slowly taken away from us. wvw is gonna be eotm permanently so maybe as u havent really experienced the higher tiers u might like eotm, but many of us have a ton of alarm bells going up right now…wvw as we know it is gonna be 100% changed and wont be a pvp map anymore its more of an eb jumpingpuzzle type of game play from now on where upgrades dont matter or siege or anything but jumping and capping pve shrines

LoL, I have been in tiers 1-6 and on EU as well. Is this Dekar’s account? I understand the alarm bells about the WP’s but I think the upgrades thing is nice, but I understand the concern of things being taken away.

who the kitten is dekar? and im not on eu im on na! eu is very different in wvw also coverage is different.

the upcoming changes as an addition to the existent system on upgrades ( after expiration of buff lord ) are goods because help people focus on fights but what will be happened if a guild or a person want to control these upgrades or if enemies torture a server because for a big time period like late nights until early morning a server has not coverage to recapture their staff back and enemies auto upgrade them to t3 ?

Reborn.2934:

the upcoming changes as an addition to the existent system on upgrades ( after expiration of buff lord ) are goods because help people focus on fights but what will be happened if a guild or a person want to control these upgrades or if enemies torture a server because for a big time period like late nights until early morning a server has not coverage to recapture their staff back and enemies auto upgrade them to t3 ?

i do see pros and cons in terms of upgrades. as much as they could help the underdog servers, it can also backfire and help the outmanniing server to freely upgrade towers whil the outmanned server is trying to defend their keep. all towers and everything the massblob took will upgrade while the outmanned server defends their garri fore example for hours.
ive been part of hourlong siege and battles over garrison or even a tower. when we were matched up with a t1 server all we could hold was woodhaven. and we held it for 3 hours vs multiple zerg attempts and golem rushes. eventiually the t1 server got bored and left only a smaller 20 man guild back and we were able to take garri back and other towers… if the upgrades were automated at that time, we wouldnt have been able to take back anything!

look everything that was designed for underdog and low tier servers has been and is abused by the dominating servers and mapblobs just like siegerazor

Reborn.2934:

the upcoming changes as an addition to the existent system on upgrades ( after expiration of buff lord ) are goods because help people focus on fights but what will be happened if a guild or a person want to control these upgrades or if enemies torture a server because for a big time period like late nights until early morning a server has not coverage to recapture their staff back and enemies auto upgrade them to t3 ?

and this is exactly why automated upgrades could and probably will backfire!

If you’re on T6 then you know there are servers down here that completely dominate the others during oceanic.

Look at this week for example, AR and GoM are running neck and neck. Last night AR was beating GoM all through prime time and managed to pass them up by the end of the night. Look at the score this morning and GoM is back in the lead with a 4-5k gap because they have a much stronger night crew.

This week that match will stay competitive because AR has enough roamers on to flip camps and snipe yaks to keep things from upgrading too much and they can quickly flip their stuff back once people wake up.

If the auto upgrade had already gone through AR wouldn’t stand a chance this week because GoM has too many hours when they are uncontested. It would take much longer for AR to cap back their stuff giving GoM a bigger lead everyday.

This would eventually completely kill the servers without night crews because people would burn out from waking up to their bl and eb side being fortified by another server.

Jim Hunter.6821:

If you’re on T6 then you know there are servers down here that completely dominate the others during oceanic.

Look at this week for example, AR and GoM are running neck and neck. Last night AR was beating GoM all through prime time and managed to pass them up by the end of the night. Look at the score this morning and GoM is back in the lead with a 4-5k gap because they have a much stronger night crew.

This week that match will stay competitive because AR has enough roamers on to flip camps and snipe yaks to keep things from upgrading too much and they can quickly flip their stuff back once people wake up.

If the auto upgrade had already gone through AR wouldn’t stand a chance this week because GoM has too many hours when they are uncontested. It would take much longer for AR to cap back their stuff giving GoM a bigger lead everyday.

This would eventually completely kill the servers without night crews because people would burn out from waking up to their bl and eb side being fortified by another server.

know the feeling we were reagularly matched vs a server that had a massive sea presence and every morning everything was gone. thankfully their sea zergs didnt bother upgrading the keeps and towers. with automated upgrades things would have been terrible.

testpig.5018:

The auto upgrade option isn’t the problem.. it’s the auto upgrade without the option to deny the upgrade… and that the upgrade is “Free”. you don’t have to do anything for it, and it WILL happen. Thats the problem

your post seems to seem you are a small scale havoc group that roams around flipping camps, killing yaks, and finding fights.

The new proposed system kills your group. Because Camps are not important, because Yaks are not important. There is no reason to defend a yak, as the tower/keep is going upgrade regardless of your efforts around those supply camps/yaks.

So what is left for your havoc group to do? where will your fights be located? if the enemy doesn’t need to leave it’s keep to get an upgrade going.. that they can just remain indoors.. all day.

The game starts to lean towards zerg on zerg fights.. that the only way you can take those fully upgraded.. fully turtled objectives is to zerg it.

buh-bye havoc group/

Did we read the same WvW announcements? Maybe they changed something since the one I read?

The one I read stated that yaks would decrease upgrade time significantly.

I think the larger issue is what it might do to make timezone wars even more of a factor.

Oolune.4357:

testpig.5018:

The auto upgrade option isn’t the problem.. it’s the auto upgrade without the option to deny the upgrade… and that the upgrade is “Free”. you don’t have to do anything for it, and it WILL happen. Thats the problem

your post seems to seem you are a small scale havoc group that roams around flipping camps, killing yaks, and finding fights.

The new proposed system kills your group. Because Camps are not important, because Yaks are not important. There is no reason to defend a yak, as the tower/keep is going upgrade regardless of your efforts around those supply camps/yaks.

So what is left for your havoc group to do? where will your fights be located? if the enemy doesn’t need to leave it’s keep to get an upgrade going.. that they can just remain indoors.. all day.

The game starts to lean towards zerg on zerg fights.. that the only way you can take those fully upgraded.. fully turtled objectives is to zerg it.

buh-bye havoc group/

Did we read the same WvW announcements? Maybe they changed something since the one I read?

The one I read stated that yaks would decrease upgrade time significantly.

I think the larger issue is what it might do to make timezone wars even more of a factor.

Decreasing the time of upgrades isn’t the same as stopping upgrades.

As a roamer/havok you can keep the camps flipped and kill every yak but in the long run it won’t make a difference. All the defenders have to do is siege up the tower/keep and hold it because the upgrades will go through regardless of your actions.

Jim Hunter.6821:

Oolune.4357:

testpig.5018:

The auto upgrade option isn’t the problem.. it’s the auto upgrade without the option to deny the upgrade… and that the upgrade is “Free”. you don’t have to do anything for it, and it WILL happen. Thats the problem

your post seems to seem you are a small scale havoc group that roams around flipping camps, killing yaks, and finding fights.

The new proposed system kills your group. Because Camps are not important, because Yaks are not important. There is no reason to defend a yak, as the tower/keep is going upgrade regardless of your efforts around those supply camps/yaks.

So what is left for your havoc group to do? where will your fights be located? if the enemy doesn’t need to leave it’s keep to get an upgrade going.. that they can just remain indoors.. all day.

The game starts to lean towards zerg on zerg fights.. that the only way you can take those fully upgraded.. fully turtled objectives is to zerg it.

buh-bye havoc group/

Did we read the same WvW announcements? Maybe they changed something since the one I read?

The one I read stated that yaks would decrease upgrade time significantly.

I think the larger issue is what it might do to make timezone wars even more of a factor.

Decreasing the time of upgrades isn’t the same as stopping upgrades.

As a roamer/havok you can keep the camps flipped and kill every yak but in the long run it won’t make a difference. All the defenders have to do is siege up the tower/keep and hold it because the upgrades will go through regardless of your actions.

It isn’t making roamers and havoc groups pointless, though. People are just going to need to reallocate their strengths. Keeping camps flipped against your enemy will still delay their upgrades quite a bit, and it will mean that your commander has time to flip their keep. I highly doubt that your going to find zergs defending the keeps/towers much more than they usually would, though, and if a zerg REALLY wanted to they can, even with the game as it is now, defend a keep and its supply line and get it upgraded like you’re suggesting they will after the changes.

They don’t do it now, I doubt they’ll do it (or do it for long) later.

The really massive change is going to be when the only thing a server is able to field is a havoc group or two due to timezone (which I addressed in my post). During those times, entire maps are likely going to become fully upgraded because there is no friendly zerg to flip camps/keeps/towers while the havoc team slows it down. If the enemy zerg is still big, though, they’ll be able to defend keeps/towers against militia and havoc squads in the absence of an opposing zerg.

I don’t think the change is a problem for why a lot of people are saying. I think THAT is why it’s worrisome. Because the change makes timezone wars a bigger deal.

For what I see, the tower will need 4H to be full upgraded without any supply…. This is very short…. For the keep it’s around 8H I believe, without any supply. This begin to take more time, but 8H is enough if you don’t have people the night… And you will wake up the morning with at least, south tower and probably side keep full upgraded…

Actually ennemy team don’t bother to put gold and supply in ennemy structures, they just take it and move away. Then to take stuff back is not too difficult.

But on the new map……

Oolune.4357:

Jim Hunter.6821:

Oolune.4357:

testpig.5018:

The auto upgrade option isn’t the problem.. it’s the auto upgrade without the option to deny the upgrade… and that the upgrade is “Free”. you don’t have to do anything for it, and it WILL happen. Thats the problem

your post seems to seem you are a small scale havoc group that roams around flipping camps, killing yaks, and finding fights.

The new proposed system kills your group. Because Camps are not important, because Yaks are not important. There is no reason to defend a yak, as the tower/keep is going upgrade regardless of your efforts around those supply camps/yaks.

So what is left for your havoc group to do? where will your fights be located? if the enemy doesn’t need to leave it’s keep to get an upgrade going.. that they can just remain indoors.. all day.

The game starts to lean towards zerg on zerg fights.. that the only way you can take those fully upgraded.. fully turtled objectives is to zerg it.

buh-bye havoc group/

Did we read the same WvW announcements? Maybe they changed something since the one I read?

The one I read stated that yaks would decrease upgrade time significantly.

I think the larger issue is what it might do to make timezone wars even more of a factor.

Decreasing the time of upgrades isn’t the same as stopping upgrades.

As a roamer/havok you can keep the camps flipped and kill every yak but in the long run it won’t make a difference. All the defenders have to do is siege up the tower/keep and hold it because the upgrades will go through regardless of your actions.

It isn’t making roamers and havoc groups pointless, though. People are just going to need to reallocate their strengths. Keeping camps flipped against your enemy will still delay their upgrades quite a bit, and it will mean that your commander has time to flip their keep. I highly doubt that your going to find zergs defending the keeps/towers much more than they usually would, though, and if a zerg REALLY wanted to they can, even with the game as it is now, defend a keep and its supply line and get it upgraded like you’re suggesting they will after the changes.

They don’t do it now, I doubt they’ll do it (or do it for long) later.

The really massive change is going to be when the only thing a server is able to field is a havoc group or two due to timezone (which I addressed in my post). During those times, entire maps are likely going to become fully upgraded because there is no friendly zerg to flip camps/keeps/towers while the havoc team slows it down. If the enemy zerg is still big, though, they’ll be able to defend keeps/towers against militia and havoc squads in the absence of an opposing zerg.

I don’t think the change is a problem for why a lot of people are saying. I think THAT is why it’s worrisome. Because the change makes timezone wars a bigger deal.

I think it’s a problem for both reasons. As it is right now I can spend a few hours cutting off supply and continuously making them waste supply on repairs by building cata’s or trebs out of range. Most of the time the defenders won’t push out to fight us until they can get their zerg to hop over and chase us off. Eventually we will swiss cheese their keep and hopefully steal it from the roughly equal number of defenders while their zerg is busy.

If the change goes through cutting off and draining supply on an upgrading keep won’t matter because the keep won’t rely on supply to upgrade. Taking keeps will only happen if we ninja them or have a zerg.

The cons of this change far outweigh the pros. They could easily just remove the cost of upgrades without implementing the rest of these terrible changes.

Jim Hunter.6821:

Oolune.4357:

Jim Hunter.6821:

Oolune.4357:

testpig.5018:

The auto upgrade option isn’t the problem.. it’s the auto upgrade without the option to deny the upgrade… and that the upgrade is “Free”. you don’t have to do anything for it, and it WILL happen. Thats the problem

your post seems to seem you are a small scale havoc group that roams around flipping camps, killing yaks, and finding fights.

The new proposed system kills your group. Because Camps are not important, because Yaks are not important. There is no reason to defend a yak, as the tower/keep is going upgrade regardless of your efforts around those supply camps/yaks.

So what is left for your havoc group to do? where will your fights be located? if the enemy doesn’t need to leave it’s keep to get an upgrade going.. that they can just remain indoors.. all day.

The game starts to lean towards zerg on zerg fights.. that the only way you can take those fully upgraded.. fully turtled objectives is to zerg it.

buh-bye havoc group/

Did we read the same WvW announcements? Maybe they changed something since the one I read?

The one I read stated that yaks would decrease upgrade time significantly.

I think the larger issue is what it might do to make timezone wars even more of a factor.

Decreasing the time of upgrades isn’t the same as stopping upgrades.

As a roamer/havok you can keep the camps flipped and kill every yak but in the long run it won’t make a difference. All the defenders have to do is siege up the tower/keep and hold it because the upgrades will go through regardless of your actions.

It isn’t making roamers and havoc groups pointless, though. People are just going to need to reallocate their strengths. Keeping camps flipped against your enemy will still delay their upgrades quite a bit, and it will mean that your commander has time to flip their keep. I highly doubt that your going to find zergs defending the keeps/towers much more than they usually would, though, and if a zerg REALLY wanted to they can, even with the game as it is now, defend a keep and its supply line and get it upgraded like you’re suggesting they will after the changes.

They don’t do it now, I doubt they’ll do it (or do it for long) later.

The really massive change is going to be when the only thing a server is able to field is a havoc group or two due to timezone (which I addressed in my post). During those times, entire maps are likely going to become fully upgraded because there is no friendly zerg to flip camps/keeps/towers while the havoc team slows it down. If the enemy zerg is still big, though, they’ll be able to defend keeps/towers against militia and havoc squads in the absence of an opposing zerg.

I don’t think the change is a problem for why a lot of people are saying. I think THAT is why it’s worrisome. Because the change makes timezone wars a bigger deal.

I think it’s a problem for both reasons. As it is right now I can spend a few hours cutting off supply and continuously making them waste supply on repairs by building cata’s or trebs out of range. Most of the time the defenders won’t push out to fight us until they can get their zerg to hop over and chase us off. Eventually we will swiss cheese their keep and hopefully steal it from the roughly equal number of defenders while their zerg is busy.

If the change goes through cutting off and draining supply on an upgrading keep won’t matter because the keep won’t rely on supply to upgrade. Taking keeps will only happen if we ninja them or have a zerg.

The cons of this change far outweigh the pros. They could easily just remove the cost of upgrades without implementing the rest of these terrible changes.

Fair enough. I guess I’m just optimistic that the changes won’t fall through as people think they will and that the player base will adapt positively, but I can see how it could go wrong.

I still think havoc and roaming will be very useful, though, outside of weak timezones. Basically used in support of a larger force under a commander.

I don’t think we’ll see zergs turtling up in keeps and towers with this upcoming change- after all, as far as we know, defending/escorting your objectives still doesn’t reward a player as much as running around flipping other servers’ objectives. I can, however, see it hurting servers without a night crew; imagine waking up and seeing your BL is not only entirely a different color, but every objective has been fully upgraded and fortified (and sieged since you don’t have to worry about wasting supply on upgrades anymore) on top of that. That could be a pretty hefty morale breaker.

I don’t think it will be zergs turtled in keeps unless the keep is being attacked by another zerg. But the smaller group of defenders no longer have to leave the keep to defend their incoming supply. It’s no longer the situation of a keep being 2 or 3 yaks away from an upgrade, now it’s “hmm well I guess we’ll have to wait 10 minutes for this next upgrade to go through instead of getting that yak in so it upgrades in 5. Good thing I have this sup AC to keep me company while I wait.”

Jim Hunter.6821:

If you’re on T6 then you know there are servers down here that completely dominate the others during oceanic.

Look at this week for example, AR and GoM are running neck and neck. Last night AR was beating GoM all through prime time and managed to pass them up by the end of the night. Look at the score this morning and GoM is back in the lead with a 4-5k gap because they have a much stronger night crew.

This week that match will stay competitive because AR has enough roamers on to flip camps and snipe yaks to keep things from upgrading too much and they can quickly flip their stuff back once people wake up.

If the auto upgrade had already gone through AR wouldn’t stand a chance this week because GoM has too many hours when they are uncontested. It would take much longer for AR to cap back their stuff giving GoM a bigger lead everyday.

This would eventually completely kill the servers without night crews because people would burn out from waking up to their bl and eb side being fortified by another server.

This would also mean that less GoM people would play because there would be less roamers from the other guilds out there. If they see that their efforts to slow or prevent upgrades don’t mean anything, I’m sure some people will just be like, “screw it, I’m quitting.” Probably not all, but some. That means that GoM people will be like, “Jeez, this is boring. There’s no one out there to kill an all our stuff is fully upgraded. I quit.”

I don’t think that’s being alarmist, just realistic.

Spurnshadow.3678:

Jim Hunter.6821:

If you’re on T6 then you know there are servers down here that completely dominate the others during oceanic.

Look at this week for example, AR and GoM are running neck and neck. Last night AR was beating GoM all through prime time and managed to pass them up by the end of the night. Look at the score this morning and GoM is back in the lead with a 4-5k gap because they have a much stronger night crew.

This week that match will stay competitive because AR has enough roamers on to flip camps and snipe yaks to keep things from upgrading too much and they can quickly flip their stuff back once people wake up.

If the auto upgrade had already gone through AR wouldn’t stand a chance this week because GoM has too many hours when they are uncontested. It would take much longer for AR to cap back their stuff giving GoM a bigger lead everyday.

This would eventually completely kill the servers without night crews because people would burn out from waking up to their bl and eb side being fortified by another server.

This would also mean that less GoM people would play because there would be less roamers from the other guilds out there. If they see that their efforts to slow or prevent upgrades don’t mean anything, I’m sure some people will just be like, “screw it, I’m quitting.” Probably not all, but some. That means that GoM people will be like, “Jeez, this is boring. There’s no one out there to kill an all our stuff is fully upgraded. I quit.”

I don’t think that’s being alarmist, just realistic.

You’re probably right. I know that the weeks my server is steamrolling I usually go into PvP because I don’t enjoy PvDooring. But those are also the weeks when all of our PvE’ers decide they want to hop into WvW so it’s not like we are lacking on people.