Guild Wars 2

As part of the idea stated in the thread Give ideas to Improve WvW. I brought up the idea of Automated defenses that are not player controlled being added to structures and holding points on maps to help deal with defense on towers and such without the need to having a player sit in the tower and wait to defend it. A player helping defend will always still be better then a programmed npc or auto defense which can be fooled easily. These would be things like Turrets, defense cannons, mortars controlled by npcs or just has general defenses like we have seen in Pve as the Charr’s defenses against the Ghosts and Pact turrets vs undead on Orr. If these were added to structures the real question would be. Where, how many, and what range would they have? So to begin this idea. Lets Start with your Home Borderlands Garrison. Where would you think would be the spots were such defenses as an upgradable option to a structure should be?

Have you even been on EotM? If you did, and still think that automated defenses are a good idea you problably have a problem.

Jeknar.6184:

Have you even been on EotM? If you did, and still think that automated defenses are a good idea you problably have a problem.

I’m not saying they don’t need improvement. It’s just something that if done properly could change the pace a little in current WvW matches. As for Eotm I personally stay out of it. I’ve tried it and found it’s just not my thing.

Lastly instead of just coming on here and trying to insult someone. Maybe try and come up with ways to improve or help the situation.

If anything there should be some feasible activity to keep players in towers/keeps that are not in the frontline. That would balance uneven matchups.

Automating defence would allow dominating server to focus fully on the frontline attack increasing the unbalance.

When you get in the range of the automated cannons on EotM, they already start shooting like crazy. Cannons do huge damage and have a reasonable big area of effect… It would be impossible to fight near anywhere with automated siege.

You want another exemple of automated siege problem? How about the Ascalon Fractal? (The one where you are turned unto a charr). As soon you get near the wall trying to get to the first boss, the Arrow Carts already start shooting like crazy. Same goes for the Burning Oil and Ballistas on that dungeon. High damage from automated siege make it very annoying and I can only presume that it will be even worse in a WvW scenario as the damage the sieges deal there aren’t nowhere close to the damage they deal on WvW.

Would be a better buf of outmanned: all your siege is manned by npcs and auto firing if there is no human, would make PvD a challenge.

I would just be happy with a public announcement like “your enemy is attacking lake tower” or “your enemy is attacking garrison” They don’t have to say which team, they don’t have to say how many or if siege is laid just that its under attack. More than just stupid tag though. I don’t want to worry about a kitten thief hitting gates to make us come running for nothing.

hmsgoddess.3869:

I don’t want to worry about a kitten thief hitting gates to make us come running for nothing.

No player damage to gates, and this problem is solved… Walls don’t take player damage, I still don’t understand why gates do.

What if the siege was automated but weaker. However if a player took manual control over it it returned to its normal strength? That way siege that was already in place (I.E. cannons/oil or a possible new defensive arrowcart upgrade) could fire there basic completely unupgraded shot at attackers in range. However a player could hop in if they have the skill and manual control it to greater effect. encourages players to stay in siege. but will help delay attacker swarms long enough for the small playerbase inside the keep (usualy theres 10-15 people running around in my experience) to call for help and set up player manned siege.

I guess balance is something we can talk about should we ever get it

Currently PvD is overpowered, this would be a way to stop it.

And if you only get automated defense whenever you are outmanned, there is another way to counter to strong defense: Go to a map and fight where the enemy is NOT outmanned.

Certainly NPC’s now are essentially useless. Upgrading guards or increasing patrols is meaningless. Now if those upgrades caused the NPCs to man siege automatically and target enemy players, they might be meaningful again.

Dayra.7405:

Would be a better buf of outmanned: all your siege is manned by npcs and auto firing if there is no human, would make PvD a challenge.

No no…if they’re outmanned, they turn into the guards/lords from EotM, all champion (nearing legendary) level. TRY TAKING OUR TOWERS NOW, GENTLEMEN!

I don’t think we need more PvE in our WvW. What would be nice though is if the current NPCs lit up on the map with relative enemy strength when they see incoming enemies.

This would help focus players on open field fights and defending.

Straegen.2938:

I don’t think we need more PvE in our WvW. What would be nice though is if the current NPCs lit up on the map with relative enemy strength when they see incoming enemies.

This would help focus players on open field fights and defending.

Yeah but that’s sort of lazy, don’t you think. You need scouts, and by that I mean other players who are selflessly observing rather than running around on the K train. They serve a purpose. If you have real time information about what the enemy is doing where, you can just zerg around all day to the hot spots and you aren’t really playing the game mode , are you?

Part of the reason why I’d prefer if the guards and lords just took a level in kitten if you’re outmanned, Dsybok. That way if they’re attacking a keep, the guards will completely wreck them if they try to mindlessly zerg (like those annoying Kodan on the Blue side of EotM).

Dsybok.1405:

Yeah but that’s sort of lazy, don’t you think. You need scouts, and by that I mean other players who are selflessly observing rather than running around on the K train.

Few players want to spend hours sitting in a tower waiting for something to happen. Many of us already have a job, why log into a game to do another?

Dsybok.1405:

They serve a purpose. If you have real time information about what the enemy is doing where, you can just zerg around all day to the hot spots and you aren’t really playing the game mode , are you?

Zergs exist partially because players don’t know where to get action on a map. People often follow a commander because they are generally guaranteed some action even if it is fighting a door. If friendly NPCs listed activity on the map, players would likely disperse a little to defend/engage. It won’t stop zergs but it would create more pocket fighting.

Basically WvW does a horrible job of getting players into the action. Heck most log into a map, don’t see a tag and leave. Do that on all maps then go to EotM.

Straegen.2938:

Dsybok.1405:

Yeah but that’s sort of lazy, don’t you think. You need scouts, and by that I mean other players who are selflessly observing rather than running around on the K train.

Few players want to spend hours sitting in a tower waiting for something to happen. Many of us already have a job, why log into a game to do another?

Dsybok.1405:

They serve a purpose. If you have real time information about what the enemy is doing where, you can just zerg around all day to the hot spots and you aren’t really playing the game mode , are you?

Zergs exist partially because players don’t know where to get action on a map. People often follow a commander because they are generally guaranteed some action even if it is fighting a door. If friendly NPCs listed activity on the map, players would likely disperse a little to defend/engage. It won’t stop zergs but it would create more pocket fighting.

Basically WvW does a horrible job of getting players into the action. Heck most log into a map, don’t see a tag and leave. Do that on all maps then go to EotM.

I would support bigger graphics, maybe something like the OJ swords but a different color when an attack is taking place at a site, but I would not want specific information, ie, 40 so and so server are attacking X, just X is being attacked is good enough for me.

We already have that, places go swords when they are attacked, but the swords blend in so well with the background its hard to see on a quick scan of the map. New players also probably have no idea what it means, whereas a big set of orange swords is pretty hard to misinterpret. I wish also that RI was shown, like the map that Millenium uses to track the matches. That would be helpful too.

I do agree that most newbie WvW players come in, see nothing happening and either message in general chat asking for help or just leave.

Shadelang.3012:

What if the siege was automated but weaker. However if a player took manual control over it it returned to its normal strength? That way siege that was already in place (I.E. cannons/oil or a possible new defensive arrowcart upgrade) could fire there basic completely unupgraded shot at attackers in range. However a player could hop in if they have the skill and manual control it to greater effect. encourages players to stay in siege. but will help delay attacker swarms long enough for the small playerbase inside the keep (usualy theres 10-15 people running around in my experience) to call for help and set up player manned siege.

Now this idea I like. After going to investigate the strength of the auto Cannons in Eotm i’d say I agree that a weaker version that an npc would use to help fight against attacking swarms would be good. Could make this an upgradeable option for towers and keeps. Could even make this a specific upgrade that doesn’t require supply to build from the keep but instead be for Badges of Honor. Though the problem would still continue with certain servers simply holding the advantage all week but that’s an issue as it is. Least it might give the lower placed servers in a match up a better chance to defend. I’d almost say that having this be a separate upgrade which doesn’t revolve around supply count so recently taken structures can have some sort of defense without the long wait for doors and walls to upgrade let alone getting cannons up which are normally killed off fast due to their placement.

@OP:

If you want to play against NPCs, you might enjoy PvE more.

style.6173:

@OP:

If you want to play against NPCs, you might enjoy PvE more.

I don’t want to fight just npc’s but I also see how they are important to WvW. Without them it’s just PvP. No Lords, Supply Dolyaks, Guards, etc. Could due without the extra Merc camps but this is what WvW is. I’d prefer that the Npcs that are there to at least have a chance to delay attackers. As of right now an undefended structure can have its guards killed by a single person. That same person run and take a camp, run back and forth a couple times and put up a ram, take down the gate and just take the tower themselves if they are good enough. An upgradable option to have an npc sitting back on a vantage point raining arrows, cannon, or mortar shells down within a set distance of the structure could make it so a single player is unable to take larger structures then camps and mercs unless they are smart about it or group up.

No automated defenses, just no. It’s a pain everywhere else it’s been implemented. Though I would be for guards scaling up with number of people attacking an objective. Might help to reduce the mindless “Zerg anything that moves” attitude people have now.

No please and thank you.

This is a good idea . It makes a huge difference for low ranking servers that have only a handful of defenders. Then again, some players like Jeknar ( ET-rank 22nd ) might be too addicted to PvDoor easymode all day long in their last category matchups. The last category matchups is most of the time another eotm karma train.

An addon to this idea is to have a NPC that spawns in base when outmanned bluff is on for more than 30mins. Paying gold to NPC activates auto defending cannons , oil and mortars. This NPC despawns when outmanned buff disappears for more than 3mins.

Luna.8691:

This is a good idea . It makes a huge difference for low ranking servers that have only a handful of defenders. Then again, some players like Jeknar ( ET-rank 22nd ) might be too addicted to PvDoor easymode all day long in their last category matchups. The last category matchups is most of the time another eotm karma train.

An addon to this idea is to have a NPC that spawns in base when outmanned bluff is on for more than 30mins. Paying gold to NPC activates auto defending cannons , oil and mortars. This NPC despawns when outmanned buff disappears for more than 3mins.

Personally i’d say using Badges of Honor may be a better payment as we have very few ways to spend them at the moment and many players have hoards of them.

style.6173:

@OP:

If you want to play against NPCs, you might enjoy PvE more.

Most in WvW seem to like PvE outside prime time, the people avoid each other and only fight doors and npc’s. But what if it is harder to take down an outmanned automated defense than actually fighting people?
They start fighting each other again instead of running their circles to avoid each other.

But probably it is much better to just put maps that aren’t needed by the current amount of players to sleep.

Or to entirely redo WvW matchups such that it needs much less people to have fights instead of PvD.

Eh, maybe. There are certainly some innovative things that can be done with towers and keeps. Right now it’s very very plain. I think GW2 could take a page out of DAoC’s book, which had by far the best RvR (WvW) in any MMO I’ve played.

Whenever a guild claimed a keep or tower in DAoC that territory would have sentry NPC’s in the guard patrols. When said sentry was attacked it would send a message to the guild that X amount of enemies were attacking. This keeps your realism in “scouts” by requiring an active guild member to communicate to the rest of the server that their keep is in trouble.

Also, towers and keeps need to have patrolling guards that travel to/from bordering towers and keeps, much like dolyaks and their guards do. It makes simply running through the map a more arduous task than lolskipping through some crappy eagles.

And then there’s the map itself. It is far far far faaar too small. There needs to be more distance between towers and there need to be more towers period. Towers also need more guards. I shouldn’t be able to roll up to one completely solo, lay down a ram, make a couple quick runs to the nearest supply camp, build the ram, tear down the door, march up a small ramp and kill the keep lord all by myself. Shouldn’t happen. Ever. Taking an empty tower should require at least 1 group of players.

Luna.8691:

Then again, some players like Jeknar ( ET-rank 22nd ) might be too addicted to PvDoor easymode all day long in their last category matchups. The last category matchups is most of the time another eotm karma train.

Funny you saying that when it us (the low tier players) that usually complain most about how our empty tower and keeps are taken by the servers with more people. But judging how you called us “Last Category”, I bet you’re one of the kittentalkers from T1 that think you are superior to anyone else for playing in a bandwagon.

As for the issue:

At some times my server rarely have people to try retake our own stuff (post midnight EST you get to be the only player on the map sometimes). If there are some uber automated siege defending it, how you expect an already super-outmanned server to try gain somenthing? I belive this will actually make even easier for the dominating server to take hold of everything than help the underdogs to keep their ground.