Guild Wars 2

Getting rid of gold costs? Great idea, should have been done way sooner
Getting rid of supply to stop siege trolls? Awesome idea, should have been done way sooner.

Making all structures upgrade with time regardless of yaks making it in? Horrible idea, needs to be reversed ASAP…

Right now when someone caps a northern tower or enemy garrison, its usually left paper because the logistics of getting it upgraded is pretty much impossible unless its a completely 1 sided match, therefore given the home BL players at least a chance to rally to retake their structures.

But with only time being the determining factor for upgrades, regardless of how significant or insignificant yaks making it into structures are, this just promotes an asinine situation where the enemy can just sit in your northern tower/garrison with turtle siege and eventually leading to a snowballed situation of a fully tier 3 garri in the enemy hands.

Want to see scores that resemble what Kaineng put tier 6-3 through on their way up the ranks 2 years ago? Show enemy pugs 3 WPs in their home BL, bam, instant dead week where 1 server ticks for 500+, WvW in 2015 doesn’t have enough population in any tier to be able to sustain breaking T3 structures in your own home BL every single night because off hours stuff automatically upgrades now.

you don’t know what your talking about.

Warlord.9074:

you don’t know what your talking about.

You made some excellent points in that valid and well thought out counter argument. Keep up the good work!

Even JQ doesn’t have enough asians willing to sit on siege in each enemy keep while they upgrade for 4 hours. Plus if you don’t cap them back they can’t ktrain them, so I wouldn’t worry about it too much.

It will suck a lot more for the lower tier servers for sure

Since we do not have all the info yet, we can’t say for sure how bad or good this is.

@ OP: Please read more carefully and think before you post. Upgrade time does depend on yaks making it in.

I am far more concerned that there has yet to be any mention of a way for scouts to get some type of compensation for the incredibly boring job of sitting in a tower or keep as an early warning system.

I hope Anet just forgot to tell us that they finally decided to import one last thing from Dark Age of Camelot that they forgot up till now: automated # of enemies in area reports to all members of the owning guild when a guard is killed or a wall is damaged of a structure or location claimed by the guild.

Vercinorix.3021:

@ OP: Please read more carefully and think before you post. Upgrade time does depend on yaks making it in.

I believe the OP was making the point that the tower/keep will upgrade regardless of if yaks make it in or not.

Johje Holan.4607:

Vercinorix.3021:

@ OP: Please read more carefully and think before you post. Upgrade time does depend on yaks making it in.

I believe the OP was making the point that the tower/keep will upgrade regardless of if yaks make it in or not.

That’s why I think we gotta be careful in wording exactly what we’re complaining about. Automatic upgrades are great, no more spending gold or worrying about supply trolls. Automatic upgrades that continue to progress even when yaks don’t make it into an objective are a problem.

Aka, automatic upgrades aren’t a terrible idea, it’s yak-less upgrades that are a terrible idea.

BrickFurious.7169:

Johje Holan.4607:

Vercinorix.3021:

@ OP: Please read more carefully and think before you post. Upgrade time does depend on yaks making it in.

I believe the OP was making the point that the tower/keep will upgrade regardless of if yaks make it in or not.

That’s why I think we gotta be careful in wording exactly what we’re complaining about. Automatic upgrades are great, no more spending gold or worrying about supply trolls. Automatic upgrades that continue to progress even when yaks don’t make it into an objective are a problem.

Aka, automatic upgrades aren’t a terrible idea, it’s yak-less upgrades that are a terrible idea.

if yaks dont play a role into upgrading anymore, what tools do we get to interupt the upgrade progress?

Offair.2563:

BrickFurious.7169:

Johje Holan.4607:

Vercinorix.3021:

@ OP: Please read more carefully and think before you post. Upgrade time does depend on yaks making it in.

I believe the OP was making the point that the tower/keep will upgrade regardless of if yaks make it in or not.

That’s why I think we gotta be careful in wording exactly what we’re complaining about. Automatic upgrades are great, no more spending gold or worrying about supply trolls. Automatic upgrades that continue to progress even when yaks don’t make it into an objective are a problem.

Aka, automatic upgrades aren’t a terrible idea, it’s yak-less upgrades that are a terrible idea.

if yaks dont play a role into upgrading anymore, what tools do we get to interupt the upgrade progress?

By taking it when it still paper in the 30 ish min window. You can still “interrupt” upgrades by stopping yaks from getting in it may not comply stop it but you do slow it down. Look at it from the point of view of the ppl holding the tower keep etc.. why should 1-2 ppl be able to stop all progress for major objectives.

If any thing after the update it may be harder to upgrade objectives in an active map. No more rushing WP or walls with added workers.

Jski.6180:

Look at it from the point of view of the ppl holding the tower keep etc.. why should 1-2 ppl be able to stop all progress for major objectives.

Because those 1-2ppl are being efficient. Yaks can get in from more than one side depending on where they’re going and the rate of their travel can be quick depending on the camp’s location. So, why should a server that doesn’t have enough mind to send 1-2ppl to deal with the 1-2Yak snipers get to keep their upgrades rolling despite their sloppy gameplay.

Jski.6180:

If any thing after the update it may be harder to upgrade objectives in an active map. No more rushing WP or walls with added workers.

“Active map” is the operative word here. I feel that for the servers with dead timezones, they are going to be stuck in a position where they can’t do anything against enemies holding onto their garrisons and will just have to watch as it auto-upgrades. Then it’s a matter of waiting until “active” times and trying to recap a garrison that’s fully upgraded and sieged.

Ultimaistanza.4793:

Jski.6180:

Look at it from the point of view of the ppl holding the tower keep etc.. why should 1-2 ppl be able to stop all progress for major objectives.

Because those 1-2ppl are being efficient. Yaks can get in from more than one side depending on where they’re going and the rate of their travel can be quick depending on the camp’s location. So, why should a server that doesn’t have enough mind to send 1-2ppl to deal with the 1-2Yak snipers get to keep their upgrades rolling despite their sloppy gameplay.

Jski.6180:

If any thing after the update it may be harder to upgrade objectives in an active map. No more rushing WP or walls with added workers.

“Active map” is the operative word here. I feel that for the servers with dead timezones, they are going to be stuck in a position where they can’t do anything against enemies holding onto their garrisons and will just have to watch as it auto-upgrades. Then it’s a matter of waiting until “active” times and trying to recap a garrison that’s fully upgraded and sieged.

They are doing too much work though to stop a yak is a LOT easier then to def one. Every one can see a yak on the map its one of the most counter effect in the game but its a HARD counter when it should just be a soft counter. Killing yaks after the update will only work out to be a soft counter adding more time to the upgrade.

If its dead then its dead it would not changes any thing yak still get in and timers will still go off. Kind of a pointless argument to be made. I am talking about map that have ppl attking objectives and holding them. If you are under attk its only a matter of time befor the attker gets in at best your just holding the objective for ppt only. By adding a timer you put more presser on the attkers to get the objective. So no more 2hr long trebathones to get it and the def do not have to sit inside all day just to hold something.

Vercinorix.3021:

@ OP: Please read more carefully and think before you post. Upgrade time does depend on yaks making it in.

I am far more concerned that there has yet to be any mention of a way for scouts to get some type of compensation for the incredibly boring job of sitting in a tower or keep as an early warning system.

I hope Anet just forgot to tell us that they finally decided to import one last thing from Dark Age of Camelot that they forgot up till now: automated # of enemies in area reports to all members of the owning guild when a guard is killed or a wall is damaged of a structure or location claimed by the guild.

I’d rather less incentive for “scouts” to sit on cannons shooting at passing roamers all day, personally.

Ultimaistanza.4793:

“Active map” is the operative word here. I feel that for the servers with dead timezones, they are going to be stuck in a position where they can’t do anything against enemies holding onto their garrisons and will just have to watch as it auto-upgrades. Then it’s a matter of waiting until “active” times and trying to recap a garrison that’s fully upgraded and sieged.

Remember that now you have an event that blasts a cannon and can destroy all enemy gates if they are not repaired.
So if you wake up to a fully dominated T3 map, get the event and go get all the map back.

Jski.6180:

They are doing too much work though to stop a yak is a LOT easier then to def one.

Remember that yaks now will get a buff if they have people around them that will make them very hard to kill. (I suppose is something like the iron skin buff you get from rams)
So defending yaks should be easier, and attackers will need to focus on defenders before killing the yak to be effective.

lLobo.7960:

Jski.6180:

They are doing too much work though to stop a yak is a LOT easier then to def one.

Remember that yaks now will get a buff if they have people around them that will make them very hard to kill. (I suppose is something like the iron skin buff you get from rams)
So defending yaks should be easier, and attackers will need to focus on defenders before killing the yak to be effective.

I get that but its still always going to be easier to kill a yak then to def one just simply due to the info on the map.

eh. You can’t turtle without supply to build siege and repair walls/gate. Enemy players in that situation have a long run back, and a hard time getting back inside if you’re applying pressure. I don’t see this making a big difference on maps with reasonable population.

On the less populated servers it may have more impact; we’ll just have to see.

Lots of interesting points. There’s also the matter of siege timing. Kinda takes some strategy out of the game.

“Oh, that keeps about to upgrade, eh, don’t bother with the camps or yaks. Just let it go and we’ll get back to it later.”

As opposed to the current: “Kill that yak! Don’t let it get in or it will upgrade!”
“We can’kittens being escourted by 20 guys.”
“kitten! The walls just re-enforced.”
“We’re trapped!”

That whole scenario, and many like it will probably go away.

Hopefully the beta-testers will provide valuable feedback and Anet will listen.

Spurnshadow.3678:

That whole scenario, and many like it will probably go away.

Thats because they never existed. People are massively overhyping current dollys. Escorted by 20 players, lol… Probably 99% of all T3 upgrades exist because of nightcapping and are lost in primetime. Your “scenario” would still be the same with passive upgrades.

Dawdler.8521:

Spurnshadow.3678:

That whole scenario, and many like it will probably go away.

Thats because they never existed. People are massively overhyping current dollys. Escorted by 20 players, lol… Probably 99% of all T3 upgrades exist because of nightcapping and are lost in primetime. Your “scenario” would still be the same with passive upgrades.

Ever played vs german servers on reset nights on your borderlands? They do escort dolyaks with 25+ if its needed.

Offair.2563:

Dawdler.8521:

Spurnshadow.3678:

That whole scenario, and many like it will probably go away.

Thats because they never existed. People are massively overhyping current dollys. Escorted by 20 players, lol… Probably 99% of all T3 upgrades exist because of nightcapping and are lost in primetime. Your “scenario” would still be the same with passive upgrades.

Ever played vs german servers on reset nights on your borderlands? They do escort dolyaks with 25+ if its needed.

That would imply they dont sit on arrowcarts all night and come out of their keeps. Which we all know isnt the case.

lLobo.7960:

Ultimaistanza.4793:

“Active map” is the operative word here. I feel that for the servers with dead timezones, they are going to be stuck in a position where they can’t do anything against enemies holding onto their garrisons and will just have to watch as it auto-upgrades. Then it’s a matter of waiting until “active” times and trying to recap a garrison that’s fully upgraded and sieged.

Remember that now you have an event that blasts a cannon and can destroy all enemy gates if they are not repaired.
So if you wake up to a fully dominated T3 map, get the event and go get all the map back.

Only certain gates will be able to be fully destroyed. Other gates will simply take significant damage which will be able to be easily repaired since supply won’t matter for upgrading.

Also, don’t forget that this isn’t like a Siegerazer event. It’s only active after every so many hours. So, an enemy server can easily just use the supply they’ve been stockpiling through the dead timezone to spike repair and not have to worry about another laser blast, or enemy servers can beat you in the event and use it against you.

Jski.6180:

Ultimaistanza.4793:

Jski.6180:

Look at it from the point of view of the ppl holding the tower keep etc.. why should 1-2 ppl be able to stop all progress for major objectives.

Because those 1-2ppl are being efficient. Yaks can get in from more than one side depending on where they’re going and the rate of their travel can be quick depending on the camp’s location. So, why should a server that doesn’t have enough mind to send 1-2ppl to deal with the 1-2Yak snipers get to keep their upgrades rolling despite their sloppy gameplay.

Jski.6180:

If any thing after the update it may be harder to upgrade objectives in an active map. No more rushing WP or walls with added workers.

“Active map” is the operative word here. I feel that for the servers with dead timezones, they are going to be stuck in a position where they can’t do anything against enemies holding onto their garrisons and will just have to watch as it auto-upgrades. Then it’s a matter of waiting until “active” times and trying to recap a garrison that’s fully upgraded and sieged.

They are doing too much work though to stop a yak is a LOT easier then to def one. Every one can see a yak on the map its one of the most counter effect in the game but its a HARD counter when it should just be a soft counter. Killing yaks after the update will only work out to be a soft counter adding more time to the upgrade.

If its dead then its dead it would not changes any thing yak still get in and timers will still go off. Kind of a pointless argument to be made. I am talking about map that have ppl attking objectives and holding them. If you are under attk its only a matter of time befor the attker gets in at best your just holding the objective for ppt only. By adding a timer you put more presser on the attkers to get the objective. So no more 2hr long trebathones to get it and the def do not have to sit inside all day just to hold something.

On the contrary, you’re going to have to spend longer in a keep to keep opening walls and gates cause of upgrades and defenders will be staying inside longer because they have no pressure to leave and recap the camp. The only real reason for leaving now would be to either go get supply (which you can simply port before the timer resets and then port back in if it’s a wp keep) or to pressure the enemies in some way.

Being on one of the lower-tier servers (which will probably drop yet another tier soon), we already have problems with enemies taking a tower or keep and upgrading it when there aren’t enough players on the map to do anything about it. But at least the enemy has to dedicate a team to keep control of the structure and the supply camps, and we have a chance to disrupt things as much as we can. The enemy has to make some commitment of time and gold to fortify our structures against us, so they aren’t going to do it everywhere.

With the changes, however, we would have to deal with ALL structures in enemy hands upgrading automatically, not just the one or two that they choose to focus on. If we don’t have enough people on the map to stop a small group from fortifying, say, our Hills, then how are we going to stop the process when most of the map is painted the wrong color?

I also have to agree with Spurnshadow that it takes away some strategy. No more decisions to make about what gets upgraded when, managing reserve supply for repairs and siege building, etc. For those of us who enjoy adopting a tower or keep and managing the upgrade process, this is a sad loss of control.

I think that arriving yaks should be required to push the progress bar. Buildings should not upgrade simply for existing. Depriving supply is a cool option.

I like the rest of the changes though. It may remove strategic options but there were few real choices to make; the big one was waypoint or defenses.

Hopefully we will see something come in to fill the gap. Maybe they should do up the Guild upgrades and make WvW objectives into a cool guild thing? Idk.

Dawdler.8521:

Spurnshadow.3678:

That whole scenario, and many like it will probably go away.

Thats because they never existed. People are massively overhyping current dollys. Escorted by 20 players, lol… Probably 99% of all T3 upgrades exist because of nightcapping and are lost in primetime. Your “scenario” would still be the same with passive upgrades.

Sorry, but this happens a lot when a keep or garrison is under siege. If it is a hair away from upgrading and your structure is Swiss Cheese, then getting that last dolyak in is of utmost importance if you’re working on a structural upgrade as everything will repair. The risk is leaving the lord less defended.

Here’s another example: your keep isn’t under siege; the map has a lot of activity; you’re about to get a WP; some thief keeps killing yaks; a havoc group of 10 keeps flipping the camp. You bet that at least 20 will escort that last yak. This means that they aren’t attacking something, giving an opportunity for other defenders to secure their position or go after a different structure because you force is occupied.

The HoT system would take that scenario, and others like it, out of the picture. It would mean people are just attacking or defending structures as there is much less reason to worry about supply.

Spurnshadow.3678:

Dawdler.8521:

Spurnshadow.3678:

That whole scenario, and many like it will probably go away.

Thats because they never existed. People are massively overhyping current dollys. Escorted by 20 players, lol… Probably 99% of all T3 upgrades exist because of nightcapping and are lost in primetime. Your “scenario” would still be the same with passive upgrades.

Sorry, but this happens a lot when a keep or garrison is under siege. If it is a hair away from upgrading and your structure is Swiss Cheese, then getting that last dolyak in is of utmost importance if you’re working on a structural upgrade as everything will repair. The risk is leaving the lord less defended.

Here’s another example: your keep isn’t under siege; the map has a lot of activity; you’re about to get a WP; some thief keeps killing yaks; a havoc group of 10 keeps flipping the camp. You bet that at least 20 will escort that last yak. This means that they aren’t attacking something, giving an opportunity for other defenders to secure their position or go after a different structure because you force is occupied.

The HoT system would take that scenario, and others like it, out of the picture. It would mean people are just attacking or defending structures as there is much less reason to worry about supply.

Exactly. I see scenarios like this all the time in WvW, and it’s great. The proposed “yaks are no longer required for upgrades” change would seriously diminish the role of yaks, and make these scenarios go away.

but the yaks are still needed, as they greatly reduce the upgrade time, which is needed or you riskk your base being weak for a take over, or a take back, depending where it is, even then, tier three is not that hard to take with a few guys, at least from what i seen.

Spurnshadow.3678:

Dawdler.8521:

Spurnshadow.3678:

That whole scenario, and many like it will probably go away.

Thats because they never existed. People are massively overhyping current dollys. Escorted by 20 players, lol… Probably 99% of all T3 upgrades exist because of nightcapping and are lost in primetime. Your “scenario” would still be the same with passive upgrades.

Sorry, but this happens a lot when a keep or garrison is under siege. If it is a hair away from upgrading and your structure is Swiss Cheese, then getting that last dolyak in is of utmost importance if you’re working on a structural upgrade as everything will repair. The risk is leaving the lord less defended.

Here’s another example: your keep isn’t under siege; the map has a lot of activity; you’re about to get a WP; some thief keeps killing yaks; a havoc group of 10 keeps flipping the camp. You bet that at least 20 will escort that last yak. This means that they aren’t attacking something, giving an opportunity for other defenders to secure their position or go after a different structure because you force is occupied.

The HoT system would take that scenario, and others like it, out of the picture. It would mean people are just attacking or defending structures as there is much less reason to worry about supply.

Which would just make a similar scenario with the changed system.

Its 10 minutes left to upgrade to full T3, your keep is swiss cheese and under heavy attack because the enemy want it before the upgrade. You have no idea if you can hold it for 10 minutes – you probably cant. Maybe 5 minutes at most.

A dolly is inbound, 20 go there to protect it. Just at the 5 minute mark when the enemy victory is certain… Dolly arrives with an army.

Keep is upgraded in the nick of time.

If you had failed to bring the dolly, you would have 5 more minutes to defend the keep, which increase the stakes for the defending side to pour everything they got into those 5 minutes.

How is this much different from getting that vital last dolly into your 99% upgraded keep scenario? The enemy could completely deny you that upgraded keep if they wanted. With the new system, defenders in this situation have a slim chance.

Dawdler.8521:

Spurnshadow.3678:

Dawdler.8521:

Spurnshadow.3678:

That whole scenario, and many like it will probably go away.

Thats because they never existed. People are massively overhyping current dollys. Escorted by 20 players, lol… Probably 99% of all T3 upgrades exist because of nightcapping and are lost in primetime. Your “scenario” would still be the same with passive upgrades.

Sorry, but this happens a lot when a keep or garrison is under siege. If it is a hair away from upgrading and your structure is Swiss Cheese, then getting that last dolyak in is of utmost importance if you’re working on a structural upgrade as everything will repair. The risk is leaving the lord less defended.

Here’s another example: your keep isn’t under siege; the map has a lot of activity; you’re about to get a WP; some thief keeps killing yaks; a havoc group of 10 keeps flipping the camp. You bet that at least 20 will escort that last yak. This means that they aren’t attacking something, giving an opportunity for other defenders to secure their position or go after a different structure because you force is occupied.

The HoT system would take that scenario, and others like it, out of the picture. It would mean people are just attacking or defending structures as there is much less reason to worry about supply.

Which would just make a similar scenario with the changed system.

Its 10 minutes left to upgrade to full T3, your keep is swiss cheese and under heavy attack because the enemy want it before the upgrade. You have no idea if you can hold it for 10 minutes – you probably cant. Maybe 5 minutes at most.

A dolly is inbound, 20 go there to protect it. Just at the 5 minute mark when the enemy victory is certain… Dolly arrives with an army.

Keep is upgraded in the nick of time.

If you had failed to bring the dolly, you would have 5 more minutes to defend the keep, which increase the stakes for the defending side to pour everything they got into those 5 minutes.

How is this much different from getting that vital last dolly into your 99% upgraded keep scenario? The enemy could completely deny you that upgraded keep if they wanted. With the new system, defenders in this situation have a slim chance.

If you could hold the keep for 5 minutes, but not 10, you will loose it regardless of the yak situation. That’s just a matter of you are weaker then them. The upgrade won’t matter. This would be especially true if you send a part of your team off to guard a yak to a tower that will automatically upgrade anyway. Better to have them in the lords room and hold for another 5 minutes.

that scenario sounds like an awesome battle, from either side.

Jski.6180:

Offair.2563:

BrickFurious.7169:

Johje Holan.4607:

Vercinorix.3021:

@ OP: Please read more carefully and think before you post. Upgrade time does depend on yaks making it in.

I believe the OP was making the point that the tower/keep will upgrade regardless of if yaks make it in or not.

That’s why I think we gotta be careful in wording exactly what we’re complaining about. Automatic upgrades are great, no more spending gold or worrying about supply trolls. Automatic upgrades that continue to progress even when yaks don’t make it into an objective are a problem.

Aka, automatic upgrades aren’t a terrible idea, it’s yak-less upgrades that are a terrible idea.

if yaks dont play a role into upgrading anymore, what tools do we get to interupt the upgrade progress?

By taking it when it still paper in the 30 ish min window. You can still “interrupt” upgrades by stopping yaks from getting in it may not comply stop it but you do slow it down. Look at it from the point of view of the ppl holding the tower keep etc.. why should 1-2 ppl be able to stop all progress for major objectives.

If any thing after the update it may be harder to upgrade objectives in an active map. No more rushing WP or walls with added workers.

Dont doylies shorten upgrade by 5 minutes???

Aeolus.3615:

Jski.6180:

Offair.2563:

BrickFurious.7169:

Johje Holan.4607:

Vercinorix.3021:

@ OP: Please read more carefully and think before you post. Upgrade time does depend on yaks making it in.

I believe the OP was making the point that the tower/keep will upgrade regardless of if yaks make it in or not.

That’s why I think we gotta be careful in wording exactly what we’re complaining about. Automatic upgrades are great, no more spending gold or worrying about supply trolls. Automatic upgrades that continue to progress even when yaks don’t make it into an objective are a problem.

Aka, automatic upgrades aren’t a terrible idea, it’s yak-less upgrades that are a terrible idea.

if yaks dont play a role into upgrading anymore, what tools do we get to interupt the upgrade progress?

By taking it when it still paper in the 30 ish min window. You can still “interrupt” upgrades by stopping yaks from getting in it may not comply stop it but you do slow it down. Look at it from the point of view of the ppl holding the tower keep etc.. why should 1-2 ppl be able to stop all progress for major objectives.

If any thing after the update it may be harder to upgrade objectives in an active map. No more rushing WP or walls with added workers.

Dont doylies shorten upgrade by 5 minutes???

Except it’s also likely that if you send enough people to guarantee the yak gets in, that’s likely to turn your 5 min survival into 4 and you’ll still lose.

Whether you agree with the changes or not, this is a very contrived situation just to justify them.

Lunacy Solacio.6514:

Aeolus.3615:

Jski.6180:

Offair.2563:

BrickFurious.7169:

Johje Holan.4607:

Vercinorix.3021:

@ OP: Please read more carefully and think before you post. Upgrade time does depend on yaks making it in.

I believe the OP was making the point that the tower/keep will upgrade regardless of if yaks make it in or not.

That’s why I think we gotta be careful in wording exactly what we’re complaining about. Automatic upgrades are great, no more spending gold or worrying about supply trolls. Automatic upgrades that continue to progress even when yaks don’t make it into an objective are a problem.

Aka, automatic upgrades aren’t a terrible idea, it’s yak-less upgrades that are a terrible idea.

if yaks dont play a role into upgrading anymore, what tools do we get to interupt the upgrade progress?

By taking it when it still paper in the 30 ish min window. You can still “interrupt” upgrades by stopping yaks from getting in it may not comply stop it but you do slow it down. Look at it from the point of view of the ppl holding the tower keep etc.. why should 1-2 ppl be able to stop all progress for major objectives.

If any thing after the update it may be harder to upgrade objectives in an active map. No more rushing WP or walls with added workers.

Dont doylies shorten upgrade by 5 minutes???

Except it’s also likely that if you send enough people to guarantee the yak gets in, that’s likely to turn your 5 min survival into 4 and you’ll still lose.

Whether you agree with the changes or not, this is a very contrived situation just to justify them.

I totaly agree with u but what this system ends is also important, what should be done next is unknow w/o observe during the enrollment period.

Lunacy Solacio.6514:

Except it’s also likely that if you send enough people to guarantee the yak gets in, that’s likely to turn your 5 min survival into 4 and you’ll still lose.

Whether you agree with the changes or not, this is a very contrived situation just to justify them.

Since people come up with contrived situations to justify the old ways then its only fair to come up with equally contrived situations to justify the new.

Hopefully Anet will have several open betas for WvW so they can go through changes before it become live. I dont see it as all good either.

Dawdler.8521:

Lunacy Solacio.6514:

Except it’s also likely that if you send enough people to guarantee the yak gets in, that’s likely to turn your 5 min survival into 4 and you’ll still lose.

Whether you agree with the changes or not, this is a very contrived situation just to justify them.

Since people come up with contrived situations to justify the old ways then its only fair to come up with equally contrived situations to justify the new.

Hopefully Anet will have several open betas for WvW so they can go through changes before it become live. I dont see it as all good either.

I may have missed things, but I saw more experience than contrived justifying the current system, but that was one rare specific situation depending on lots of factors coming together for luck, compared to more general situations that can and do happen routinely. Either way, it gets nowhere really.

AFAIK the betas will continue to use the current system (edit: for the time being, but perhaps they will throw in the new traits/gear stats etc soon?). There were closed betas I think for wvw for a small group already? More will come in the future, unknown when the new system will be tested by players, or if it already has?

Something new I haven’t seen discussed yet.

Pride.

How attached do we get to structures when we’ve defended the crap out of them, coaxed dollies into them, defended the camps to get them upgraded. Responded just in the nick of time to save them because they were getting upgraded and upgraded.

Think about how hard it is for the towers on maps to get upgraded. The northern towers have only one supply line that is contantly being harrassed. It’s so rare (I’m T1) for them to ever get fully upgraded. The southern towers are easier, but the subject of more flipping by the home BL and adjacent server. It takes a lot of dedication to build them up which gives us a sense of accomplishment and pride.

We’re going to loose out on that sense of accomplishment. Isn’t that part of what games are all about? Yes, there are other things, like leveling characters, grinding mats for legendaries, getting better and better at our class and improving our guilds fighting capabilities. Upgrading sturctures are one of those things, too.