Backline profession for WVW in current state

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Posted by: SuicidalDucky.6749

SuicidalDucky.6749

Hey , I just bought the game mainly for WVW.

I like staying with the zerg but staying in the back line dealing heavy damage

I am torn on what class to play .. I like the idea of a glass cannon.. with long range

Was thinking about either longbow ranger or Hammer Revenant
Dislike the elementalist , they seem to be pushed to water heal.

Any one who can share their opinion on the strongest back liner for wvw?

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Posted by: Loosmaster.8263

Loosmaster.8263

Those 2 but not much AoE. Necro would cover that if you like a caster type. Middle ground, I like my Ranger in Dire gear/Short Bow and Warhorn/Axe.


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Posted by: LetoII.3782

LetoII.3782

Those 2 but not much AoE. Necro would cover that if you like a caster type. Middle ground, I like my Ranger in Dire gear/Short Bow and Warhorn/Axe.

900 range isn’t backline.

OP: hammer Rev is your baby.
If you’re picking one class, that’s a great one in current meta.
You’ll be comfy in just about any group scenario… Ranger isn’t so welcome oft times.

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Posted by: SuicidalDucky.6749

SuicidalDucky.6749

Thanks for the input .. I just read that Rev got some hammer nerfs so i was uncertain if they were still as good in WVW as ive read up.

But i have no idea how ranger damage is compared rev or dragon hunter

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Posted by: LetoII.3782

LetoII.3782

Rev had a bug. Bug is fixed.
Rev is king

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Posted by: Loosmaster.8263

Loosmaster.8263

Those 2 but not much AoE. Necro would cover that if you like a caster type. Middle ground, I like my Ranger in Dire gear/Short Bow and Warhorn/Axe.

900 range isn’t backline.

OP: hammer Rev is your baby.
If you’re picking one class, that’s a great one in current meta.
You’ll be comfy in just about any group scenario… Ranger isn’t so welcome oft times.

I said “Middle ground”…


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Posted by: RlyOsim.2497

RlyOsim.2497

Dire ranger in a zerg. Good one.

On a serious note: necro, rev or ele. Rev atm is very strong, necro is a monster too in the right hands and ele does a bit of everything and is always welcome

And a bonus tip: don’t ever run a dire anything in a zerg.

The Ghost of Christmas Past

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Posted by: SuicidalDucky.6749

SuicidalDucky.6749

Seems Revenant is getting more love then Ranger .. Is there great diffrence between the 1500 and 1200 range in zerg fights ?

seems ranger would have easier time tagging more people , Does REV have more damage output?

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Posted by: RlyOsim.2497

RlyOsim.2497

Rev offers more all around utility. Honestly, their hammer 2 skill alone when traited is enough to justify a rev. That added to the fact they provide perma swiftness, fury and 5-10 stacks of might for their party puts them in a pretty good place.

Mains be mains and will tell you differently but go to Youtube and search some recent gvg’s and count how many rangers you see. There’s reasons they aren’t used.

Maybe an actual good way of viewing the backline would be:
Rev – very strong single target, some aoe, group utility
Necro – massive burst, strong single target, did I mention the massive burst?
Ele – solid aoe damage, great cc/utility and absolutely needed for their water fields
Mesmer – stealth, portal bot

Goodluck with it

The Ghost of Christmas Past

(edited by RlyOsim.2497)

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Posted by: Zephyra.4709

Zephyra.4709

Backline things:

Hammer Revenant 1,200 range hard hitting skills can hit multiple targets especially #2 but recent changes to CoR has made it not so spammy.

Necro Wells Very good backline especially if traited for unblockable wells, even better if you have in your party a venom share Thief. Let the tears roll.

Dragonhunter longbow apparently hits hard; true shot in particular. #5 skill is one big AOE that traps anyone caught inside it which can be set up as a CC-chain for other skills.

Ranger can pick targets off singularly but can also range nicely in the backseat.

Elementalist Staff meteor shower hits like a truck if timed well enough/safely. Good use of earth/lightning static field will definitely help your zerg out. Ice bow can sometimes be used as well but it took quite a nerf a while ago. Still use-able for the fun of it.

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Posted by: FogLeg.9354

FogLeg.9354

We don’t use Revenants anymore. Wells Necro and Staff Tempest can do same thing better and are much more fun to play.

We also don’t run pure Zerk Glass Cannon builds since your backline is never truely able to avoid damage. Enemy will try to eliminate your heavy damage backliners first and if you can not survive enemy attacks you are just dead.

But I guess it also depends on the size of your zerg. We very rarely get more then 15 players into raid and usually fight enemy groups of 20+.

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Posted by: Straegen.2938

Straegen.2938

If you want to kitten people off, build a Gun Flame warrior. IMO best skill in the game wrapped in a somewhat disappointing warrior cover.

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Posted by: Infusion.7149

Infusion.7149

Ranger isn’t as strong a backliner as Herald with a hammer. Druid provides more healing though.

Make a herald, use Zojja’s /Berserker’s (Power precision ferocity) gear with a few pieces of Valkyrie or Soldiers’ (power+vitality+toughness), and Devastation traitline (swift termination) + Invocation with Roiling Mists (double fury effectiveness).

Keep up fury. Use CoR (hammer 2) on enemies lined up. Use hammer bolt to auto things and pierce 5 targets.

Desolation (EU) → Yak’s Bend (US)
In your backline: Elementalist+Mesmer+Necromancer

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Posted by: Dawdler.8521

Dawdler.8521

Necro, more specifically the reaper, is the king of backlines in zergs not just because of rings everywhere but also because they become practicly immortal when not hard focused. The other classes are utility.

That said, if I was to pick my zerg I probably wouldnt even use them. Heavy guards, warrors and engies up front, light warriors, guards, engies, revs and thieves in the back. Yeah yeah I know, maybe you go “wtf is he mad?!” but I have a very special way of thinking. None of this is random, though some would be specifically elite specced and have certain skills and weapons to complement the others.

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Posted by: FogLeg.9354

FogLeg.9354

That said, if I was to pick my zerg I probably wouldnt even use them. Heavy guards, warrors and engies up front, light warriors, guards, engies, revs and thieves in the back. Yeah yeah I know, maybe you go “wtf is he mad?!” but I have a very special way of thinking. None of this is random, though some would be specifically elite specced and have certain skills and weapons to complement the others.

Interesting… Thats how I guess most guild groups start, they have some mad idea and try to fill the group with builds best suited for each role. Not every idea works out ofc

I think this thread is mostly about “generic zerg”, probably filled with many pugs and not with specific classes built for certain role.

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Posted by: Hexalot.8194

Hexalot.8194

We don’t use Revenants anymore. Wells Necro and Staff Tempest can do same thing better and are much more fun to.

LOL you’re not just a minority in this thread, but likely a minority in the entire WvW game mode as well. You also mention that you don’t like to run pure glass back liners. But ironically, glass Heralds when traited properly can tank just about as well as many a front liner. Let me guess… you were part of the “I hate everthing about Revs and their kitten CoR” army rampaging through here before the hammer nerfs, hmm ? ;-)

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Posted by: Shilajit.9023

Shilajit.9023

from my only 1.5k hours of staff elementalist in wvw experience I would suggest go for elementalist for a backliner class.
it has almost everything a back liner can provide (with staff ofc).

1.huge aoe damage (hits like not a truck but a train).
2.range stuns/knockbacks/roadblock/immobilize I mean many cc skills haha
3.provider of water field which clears conditions & allies can get healing out of that water field they they use any blast skills on that.
Edit: also because of water field an ele doesn’t have to be equipped with healing gear
you can go glass & still be a great support.
yeah you might have to take the water trait line but it’s not for your team mates it’s for your own survivability , except that you can go a glasss cannon build
Ele is a class I’ll never use healing gear on it, NEVER

at mid range necro I found most useful because of the old well meta that hits like a truck.

now the revs are here but can’t say much about that since I didn’t play rev much

Selling salts to the Salty people.
Only Gankdara Ele

(edited by Shilajit.9023)

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Posted by: FogLeg.9354

FogLeg.9354

We don’t use Revenants anymore. Wells Necro and Staff Tempest can do same thing better and are much more fun to.

LOL you’re not just a minority in this thread, but likely a minority in the entire WvW game mode as well. You also mention that you don’t like to run pure glass back liners. But ironically, glass Heralds when traited properly can tank just about as well as many a front liner. Let me guess… you were part of the “I hate everthing about Revs and their kitten CoR” army rampaging through here before the hammer nerfs, hmm ? ;-)

Guessing is difficult work, and you are not even close, so perhaps stop trying

Successful WvW groups adapt to the changes, bugfixes and features quickly. Those who stick to the old versions that worked last year will lose the fights. There is currently no reason for us to run Heralds aymore, does not mean we did not run them in the past or will not run again in the future.

I guess you did not manage to read through my entire post and rushed to reply with silly guesswork, but go back and try again. I mentioned this system works for us, and I gave the size of our guild raid. They could be useful in much bigger or smaller groups, in which case you could reply with actual example.

I personally have doubts about your claims for Herald being able to tank as well as Guardian or Reaper, but if it works for you, go for it! It would also help if you could describe the potentially superior Herald build compared to Guardian or Reaper tank, as I expect every class to be traited properly.

I admit CoR was way too strong, had way too low cooldown and no real cost. It had to be nerfed, no question. Was it nerfed enough or nerfed even properly? Not sure but this reveals real problem with Heralds – any class that relies on one single skill or trait is going to be in trouble when that broken skill gets fixed. And beside CoR Heralds have little to offer, their energy system is a mess and utility skills mostly useless. I mean half their legends are never even used by anyone. Ever. Good example of bad class design. I don’t hate Heralds, if fact I would love to play one again but I will also not use them untill their biggest contribution are flashy skill effects.

(edited by FogLeg.9354)

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Posted by: Haythere.7513

Haythere.7513

Please don’t don’t bring another ranger to wvw.

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Posted by: Infusion.7149

Infusion.7149

Hardening persistence +Invigorating flow (~300 heal every time you use an energy skill), combined with dwarf legend for the elite +staff . If using glint you have protection from Facet of Chaos and/or One with Nature.

Switching to dwarf legend , Rite of the great dwarf is -50% damage and isn’t a boon, while Vengeful hammers is -20% condition damage , -20% regular damage and +280 armor as an alternative. It’s an alternative to relying on boons that can be corrupted.

Staff provides blind/weakness/daze to mitigate damage, as well as condi clear and a knockback.

Desolation (EU) → Yak’s Bend (US)
In your backline: Elementalist+Mesmer+Necromancer

(edited by Infusion.7149)

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Posted by: LetoII.3782

LetoII.3782

You guys are waaayy off topic xD
Dude asked if Rev or Ranger was better for a FIRST WvW class, starting from scratch. He’s gonna be undergeared, upleveled and inexperienced.

I.E. he’s gonna be respawning and lost a lot.

Don’t tell him glass ele or for god’s sake fatkid necro is a good idea when there’s a forgiving, self-sufficient, effective class like rev sitting there.
I ain’t a big fan of Rev myself, but for a beginner it’s great because he can take it anywhere.

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Posted by: Loosmaster.8263

Loosmaster.8263

Dire ranger in a zerg. Good one.

On a serious note: necro, rev or ele. Rev atm is very strong, necro is a monster too in the right hands and ele does a bit of everything and is always welcome

And a bonus tip: don’t ever run a dire anything in a zerg.

Some people just can’t think outside the box. Your choice to pew pew.


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Posted by: LetoII.3782

LetoII.3782

And some people don’t realize WHY a particular road is less traveled.

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Posted by: SuicidalDucky.6749

SuicidalDucky.6749

After the “nerf” to revenant did it harm their ability to tag other players alot ? is their damage still good ?

Ranger arrow can cleave 5 targets and it has 3/4 sec cd – but i dont know how the damage of it

Hammer has similar but longer at 1 sec cd

I like the ranger but i just hate the pet , prefer the player to deal the damage

Still torn between Ranger or Revenant to level first to get into WVW

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Posted by: psizone.8437

psizone.8437

Some people just can’t think outside the box. Your choice to pew pew.

No, conditions just don’t work in a zerg environment unless they can keep the application up constantly (since zergs tend to run with masses of condi removal) and shortbow Rangers only really excel in single target condition application.

Rangers work great in WvW, even in zergs – but only with the right builds.

OP, for backline go for Necro with Wells or Elementalist with Staff (you don’t need to place your water, just focus on your damage and drip the water if you feel like it).

Alternitively:
Hammer Revenant, longbow Ranger or rifle Warrior if you want to play a more focussed ranged dps role (taking out healers and/or the commander).

Brotherhood of Blub [blub]

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Posted by: psizone.8437

psizone.8437

I like the ranger but i just hate the pet , prefer the player to deal the damage

Still torn between Ranger or Revenant to level first to get into WVW

Even without the pet, you can output a tonne of damage as a longbow Ranger.

Go full zerkers or near enough (new marauder stat is also pretty good), and run with Signet of Stone for emergencies and you’ll be set. Pick your targets well and rain your longbow 5 in the middle of the enemy zerg for extra lootbag goodness.

Brotherhood of Blub [blub]

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Posted by: diax.2815

diax.2815

Wells backline necro is pretty much perfect, even in full zerk it’s tanky enough to survive any positioning mistakes or inexperience.
And elementalist staff backline dmg is insane if you can manage it in full zerk, huge risk and reward but worth it, but you need to know how to position yourself alot better.
All other ranged backline are inferior in zerg imo

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Posted by: Hexalot.8194

Hexalot.8194

We don’t use Revenants anymore. Wells Necro and Staff Tempest can do same thing better and are much more fun to.

LOL you’re not just a minority in this thread, but likely a minority in the entire WvW game mode as well. You also mention that you don’t like to run pure glass back liners. But ironically, glass Heralds when traited properly can tank just about as well as many a front liner. Let me guess… you were part of the “I hate everthing about Revs and their kitten CoR” army rampaging through here before the hammer nerfs, hmm ? ;-)

Guessing is difficult work, and you are not even close, so perhaps stop trying

Successful WvW groups adapt to the changes, bugfixes and features quickly. Those who stick to the old versions that worked last year will lose the fights. There is currently no reason for us to run Heralds aymore, does not mean we did not run them in the past or will not run again in the future.

I guess you did not manage to read through my entire post and rushed to reply with silly guesswork, but go back and try again. I mentioned this system works for us, and I gave the size of our guild raid. They could be useful in much bigger or smaller groups, in which case you could reply with actual example.

I personally have doubts about your claims for Herald being able to tank as well as Guardian or Reaper, but if it works for you, go for it! It would also help if you could describe the potentially superior Herald build compared to Guardian or Reaper tank, as I expect every class to be traited properly.

Hardening persistence +Invigorating flow (~300 heal every time you use an energy skill), combined with dwarf legend for the elite +staff . If using glint you have protection from Facet of Chaos and/or One with Nature.

Switching to dwarf legend , Rite of the great dwarf is -50% damage and isn’t a boon, while Vengeful hammers is -20% condition damage , -20% regular damage and +280 armor as an alternative. It’s an alternative to relying on boons that can be corrupted.

Staff provides blind/weakness/daze to mitigate damage, as well as condi clear and a knockback.

Thanks Infusion. And may I also add that you can have all that damage reduction/mitigation on a larger base HP pool than a Guardian, while still going pure glass, thus allowing the Rev to wander up front doing huge damage numbers and/or get caught out of position without getting melted instantly like your typical glass Ele/Necro/Ranger. :-)

(edited by Hexalot.8194)

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Posted by: SuicidalDucky.6749

SuicidalDucky.6749

Down to either Elementalist or Revenant .. Which one dishes out more dps in wvw?

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Posted by: RlyOsim.2497

RlyOsim.2497

Dire ranger in a zerg. Good one.

On a serious note: necro, rev or ele. Rev atm is very strong, necro is a monster too in the right hands and ele does a bit of everything and is always welcome

And a bonus tip: don’t ever run a dire anything in a zerg.

Some people just can’t think outside the box. Your choice to pew pew.

Running over 3k armor on a 1500 ranged class + running zero power in a zerg setting isn’t outside the box, it’s just wrong.

I’m 100% not trying to attack you but really sit down and look at what your build is actually doing. Before you say condi damage go to meta battle and look at the main GWEN builds and see how much individual and group condi cleanse they run/have. Just because you survive a fight and manage to tag people doesn’t mean a build is useful.

Goodluck with it

The Ghost of Christmas Past

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Posted by: Shilajit.9023

Shilajit.9023

You guys are waaayy off topic xD
Dude asked if Rev or Ranger was better for a FIRST WvW class, starting from scratch. He’s gonna be undergeared, upleveled and inexperienced.

I.E. he’s gonna be respawning and lost a lot.

Don’t tell him glass ele or for god’s sake fatkid necro is a good idea when there’s a forgiving, self-sufficient, effective class like rev sitting there.
I ain’t a big fan of Rev myself, but for a beginner it’s great because he can take it anywhere.

you know at underlevel u don’t need much of a gear requirement , he’ll die anyway even with tanky low lvl gear.
also playing ele requires brain u can’t just spam 1 with ele , swapping attunment is a must , can’t stay on 1 attunment for more than 10 sec in wvw zerg fight.
& yes we said glass cannon ele because he’s new & has the idea of ele being a healer of the team this is not the case at all.

playing ele requires a bit of understanding how it works, you must know about what fields you have & the purpose of the field, for playing ele you need the full knowledge of fields & finishers.
yes risk is big but you will be amazed how much damage you can provide with elementalist, also great suport.
rev is ok with range spamming 1 & 2 from hammer & sometime 5 but that’s it..
if you are a risk taker you won’t play any other class after playing elementalist.

Selling salts to the Salty people.
Only Gankdara Ele

(edited by Shilajit.9023)