Guild Wars 2

I’m not a person who will complain fast about balance, but at the point i see certain builds always win 1 vs 3/4/5+ i think this needs a rebalanced. This goes for elementals with a certain d/d build that do loads of damage and hardly get damage and about guardians with a great sword that hardly take damage while dealing loads of it. important note is the groups i see them with vary allot, so the option I’m with a default group that takes them on wrong is not legit.

Beside i think there should be done something about the way to high stealth possibilities of thief’s. I just fought a gun gun thief that was 99% of the time in stealt against me and 2 others and did win that way because non of use had any decent untrageted aoe.

Also i think finishing in stealth should be made impossible, it’s low, no other profession as thief does have the possibility to do it, mabby Mesmer with mass stealth, but never did see one doing that, neither I have been possible to try it at this point, still one skill point short for it. But it’s also not a great option because it is an elite skill.

For the rest i think wvwvw is not more out of balance as it should be allowed to be, still get my butt kicked allot on my level 39 Mesmer, but i don’t mind, i just join the zerg or try to wreck peoples mind 1 v 1 with clone, which is really fun it it works out.

edit: thief stealth, might be a culling problem, still need to be fixed, just render an invisible char please, so it does not have to be rendered once it comes out of stealth

*Level 39 mesmer. *

lvl 80 ele, lvl 80 gaurdian, lvl 80 necro
just made a mesmer for wvwvw……….

ow and i did wvwvw on those chars also

I don’t know but I don’t feel invincible on my Guarding while wielding a greatsword. I’ve stacked bunker stats and while I certainly don’t die in record time my damge suffers. I actually feel more sturdy when I have a Hammer or Mace/Shield, Greatsword doesn’t offer a whole lot in terms of survivability.

true nuzt, i don’t know the exact build they are using, point is just they hardly take any damage while dealing allot and I’m not really up to try it on my guardian. Since i don’t like the great sword and i don’t like the builds that are way out of bounds on power, so might be they do not use bunker stats for example.

Much of the ‘perma’ in ‘permastealth’ thieves comes from culling. The game not rendering players quickly enough can grant thieves an extra second or two of stealth every time they pop out. What’s worse is the inability to target them.

When ANet fixes this, you’re going to see a lot of thief tears~

lvl 80 guardian, lvl 80 necro, lvl 80 thief
ele, mesmer and engi are under construction

You know… sometimes I feel also that all other classes are OP whilst I get impression to play just in a specific moment the wrong class… but this is due to the fact, that I just met an opponent with better skills… tough luck for me

That thiefs have currently the culling in addition working for them -this is bad luck for the other classes atm – but the culling will be fixed hopefully very soon and then thiefs are a bit better to handle… but you can’t blame thiefs therefore… adress it to ANet though if you feel depressed

p/p thieves only have 2-3 stealths available to them right meow… You were probably blinded by number 5 and projectile combos.

You also realize that the mesmer is one of those classes you are complaining about, right?

Mesmer only wrack up your mind and if they one shot you, both you and the Mesmer are glass cannon, glass cannon one shot glass cannon, as simple as that. Like you should have read i already suggested myself thief’s could be culling and other people say that is it. So if you read all before go in mindless commentary mode it helps you. Beside I’m not complain about professions in general but about certain overpowered builds (2 builds). To give you the numbers, 1 stealth form heal, 2 form utility, 1 from stealing if traited, stealth form some items you can steal, so i count 4, leaving out items the thief might steal.

edit: at leas i did not encounter a Mesmer that did win alone from a group without total wreck up their mind.

Its true i have taken 3 people alone with my d/d ele. Was it you at the temple of the storms (the naga island) where i took a mesmer a guardian and a thief alone?
Keep im mind this doesn’t happen because eles are OP. This happens when there are low levels or people without full exotic gear, which gives them a very good advantage…

Me, encountering a thief before level 80
..Oh no thief on me …taking massive dmg…
ha, using my AOE
…no hits no nothing
…thief still on me.
..aoe not reloeaded yet
…NO, i didn’t wanna target those darns deers and moas…great now thief 2 moas and deer on me
aoe reloaded…
yay 1 hit and really killing the deer now
oh and there it’s gone again
great hit the bear now
downed
bear finishes me off..

…REZ please?

Now lv 80 confusion build…
Well hellooooo confusion dmg..it’s following u thief and i see u more often :-)

The levels do make a difference as someone pointed out. No matter how you are scaled it doesnt balance out. I have found wearing armor my level with give me good stats as far as not dying in 2 shots. but weapons my level never give me enough damage do do anything other then just annoy people.

Also while I hope culling is fixed I ain’t holding out hope on ‘soon’.

Hmm what D/D build do loads of damage and hardly get damage.

hharry.1967:

Its true i have taken 3 people alone with my d/d ele. Was it you at the temple of the storms (the naga island) where i took a mesmer a guardian and a thief alone?
Keep in mind this doesn’t happen because eles are OP. This happens when there are low levels or people without full exotic gear, which gives them a very good advantage…

Like i said i also have several level 80, 3 to be exactly, 2 of them with full exotics, got the same problem with them when wvwvw with small groups, from some of them i actually know they are full exotic, and i can tell you my guardian is very stubborn if it comes to dyeing (hammer, no greatsword). That is what I’m trying to point out. And indeed i know level makes a huge difference, point is it happen like 100% of the time when i see a d/d ele or GS guardian. And I’m not always in the fight, since sometimes I see it happen and I just not make it in time, so that means 1 v 3+ without me. That is the point I’m trying to point out. And I’m not the only one who is experience it this way, wouldn’t have post it is that was the case.

And i repeat it’s about 1 certain build, not about all eles, i play a ele myself also (mainly pve with my ele though) and when the game was not launched that long yet, most people where not able to kill me 1 v 1 but that was because i was to resilient, but i had to give up a great deal of damage to achieve that. So i had 1 v 1 fights that could take more as 5 mins due that. And that is exactly my problem with the 2 builds i pointing out her. They take very low damage whey dealing high, that is the wrong combination, since the rule of thumb is, if you become more resilient you have to sacrifice damage, if you want to do more damage you have to sacrifice survivability. And it might be you have the d/d build I’m pointing out, but i just don’t know what the build is so i cannot give exact details about it.

edit: ofcourse i cannot see names in wvwvw, so it’s hard to see if it goes about a few players or many of them. I know most them them i see come from far shiver peeks, but since underworld is already match up for 3 weeks against them and for 2 weeks against drazough i don’t have that much change to compare to other servers.

I guess I just don’t know what the builds are then. I Run a level 80 greatsword guardian. And a level 80 dagger/dagger ele, who is usually wielding a staff in wvw. And I can do fair to middling damage but nothing to send home about. I am fairly hard to kill since the ele it seems every utility breaks stuns and can remove conditions. And the guardian has a fair amount of removal and healing going on.

I do understand some of what you are saying, But mostly to me it was the way the utilities are designed. The classes with the most condition removal/stun breaks/stealth stay alive the longest. I guess if it wasn’t intended to be that way it was a major over sight.

Something else to keep in mind, so far Anet has been trying to balance the game around their Esport spvp. Which has limited equipment choices. Which means things we see as broken in WvW may not even be a problem in spvp and not all that important to them.

People really need to realise that it doesn’t come down to 1 build but instead it comes down to several factors – player Skill, Stats, Gear & Level.

In order to counter certain classes you must first know how to counter classes, do a bit of reading maybe experiment with other classes do 1v1s with certain classes.

As a d/d ele myself i have sacrificed my DPS for the defensive, not everything in this game has to be glass cannons to suit others who die to the weakest class, i choose defensive stats to outlast my enemy, even out skill them not because i had to but i chose to as the choice is there.

As for balance, the only thing that needs to be “balanced” is bugs & culling, classes are fine as they are (maybe start buffing instead of nerfing) let others choose what they want to do rather than being “The boy that cried NERFZ!” After being killed several times.

roostapro.9827:

People really need to realise that it doesn’t come down to 1 build but instead it comes down to several factors – player Skill, Stats, Gear & Level.

Okay, let’s take two players with equal skill and gear with good builds. Which is more likely to win or escape a 1v5?

Elementalist or Ranger? :P

Or just ask the simple question: Could I be doing what I’m doing right now on a different class?

The answer to this is “no” if you are playing a thief, mesmer, or d/d elementalist when it comes to soloing.

The next question is: Does that really matter in the larger context of the game which is group-based?

That’s the question that should be debated. Anyone who is honest and intelligent knows that thieves, mesmers, and d/d elems are way ahead of the curve when it comes to 1vNs.

In my opinion, anyone who complains about balance issues for 1v1 encounters in a team oriented activity like WvW does not fully comprehend which game they are playing.

Oozo.7856:

Which is more likely to win or escape a 1v5?

The problem is that “win or escape” is not equivalent to “win or draw”, it is equivalent to “win or lose”. Running off is a loss. So you can use this to argue that some professions die less, but not that they lose less.

Running away is not a loss. That is not how good elems and thieves view it. They consider it buying time, regaining health, and seeing if they have thinned out or created a seperation in some of the people chasing them so they can turn on them.

Their mobility and escapability basically allows them to play small group tactics without the group.

Oozo.7856:

Running away is not a loss. That is not how good elems and thieves view it. They consider it buying time, regaining health, and seeing if they have thinned out or created a seperation in some of the people chasing them so they can turn on them.

By that same logic, dying and then running back from a waypoint was just “testing their defenses” for the true attack that is totally gonna win.

No, running away means losing the fight. You can start another fight with what you learned, but that first fight has been lost. It doesn’t matter how someone views it personally, that is what it is.

Tulisin.6945:

Oozo.7856:

Running away is not a loss. That is not how good elems and thieves view it. They consider it buying time, regaining health, and seeing if they have thinned out or created a seperation in some of the people chasing them so they can turn on them.

By that same logic, dying and then running back from a waypoint was just “testing their defenses” for the true attack that is totally gonna win.

No, running away means losing the fight. You can start another fight with what you learned, but that first fight has been lost. It doesn’t matter how someone views it personally, that is what it is.

It totally depends upon the situation, no matter how you personally view it.

Thieves + certain D/D eles, rest are perfectly fine. tweaks here and there for some classes. But you know, thieves wont get nerfed. Culling wont be fixed any time soon. Oh well.

There are counters to these classes/builds (except thieves, there is no counter to culling….). Anet said a few times in various ways that before calling things OP you should try to learn to counter them.

Not every build will be able to counter every other build. In fact, many of these new builds people are complaining about being able to 1vN are built to counter glass cannons. GC being one of the first, most obvious builds many choose when an MMO is new, soon to follow are the hard counter bunker types.

I can fight small groups on my elementalist IF they are uncoordinated, or undergeared, or upleveled/etc. However, IF any one I am fighting (even 1v1, equal skill, blahblah) is running a build which counters mine I will lose unless really lucky. I’m ok with that, I play rock, I expect paper to pwn me, which in turn allows me to pretty reliably crush scissors.

Thrashbarg.9820:

(except thieves, there is no counter to culling….).

The only time I lose to thieves is when they have a partner to distract me while they hit me with their burst.

Otherwise, culling is simple to counter, just get used to using Tab to target instead of clicking. Just because they haven’t shown up on your screen doesn’t mean your client doesn’t know they’re there

EnRohbi.2187:

Thrashbarg.9820:

(except thieves, there is no counter to culling….).

The only time I lose to thieves is when they have a partner to distract me while they hit me with their burst.

Otherwise, culling is simple to counter, just get used to using Tab to target instead of clicking. Just because they haven’t shown up on your screen doesn’t mean your client doesn’t know they’re there

You must be incredibly lucky with tab and play a class with fast casting skills.

Tab usually only gets me moas and deer, or other players far away from the thief I am trying to find. Even if I manage to tab him for that half second I, can’t get off any meaningful attack (ride the lightning has this cool effect of shooting me past the target to max range if they stealth while casting, “wohoo! tab worked! gap closah! oh noes! off cliff! splat!”…..).

I guess in a 1v1 with a thief in an area completely devoid of pve mobs, tab might help more, but what thief in his right mind would choose to engage in an area like that?

Thrashbarg.9820:

EnRohbi.2187:

Thrashbarg.9820:

(except thieves, there is no counter to culling….).

The only time I lose to thieves is when they have a partner to distract me while they hit me with their burst.

Otherwise, culling is simple to counter, just get used to using Tab to target instead of clicking. Just because they haven’t shown up on your screen doesn’t mean your client doesn’t know they’re there

You must be incredibly lucky with tab and play a class with fast casting skills.

Tab usually only gets me moas and deer, or other players far away from the thief I am trying to find. Even if I manage to tab him for that half second I, can’t get off any meaningful attack (ride the lightning has this cool effect of shooting me past the target to max range if they stealth while casting, “wohoo! tab worked! gap closah! oh noes! off cliff! splat!”…..).

I guess in a 1v1 with a thief in an area completely devoid of pve mobs, tab might help more, but what thief in his right mind would choose to engage in an area like that?

Admittedly, mesmers (my class) are quite good at countering thieves. (Still a counter)
Tab helps you keep track of them, Distortion makes their initial burst pretty useless. If you know they’re around you and in stealth they have a much harder time getting the jump on you.
Just don’t panic and start mashing keys

AOE helps a lot. If you stand inside your own AOEs a thief will be forced to attack from range and they have far less burst then. Also the trails from a pistol #1 will be visible even with culling so you can see exactly where the thief is standing.

I use confusion to great advantage while fighting thieves, but that is again, a mesmer thing mostly.

Just remember that the GC thieves that kill you in a couple hits are the same ones that die in a couple hits themselves.
And the thieves that are built to really abuse culling and stealth will probably not kill you anyway, those fights usually tend to be pretty much a standoff