Guild Wars 2

Ok so i just stopped playing after 1 hour and 10 minutes of non stop fighting inside AM Garrison.

Story: we open outer and inner garrison, Am start waypoint back while still contested( is this going to be fixed?)
Basically they keep bannering the lord for 1 hour and we keept farming them and killing them at every attempt, with capture of the ring that reset on every banner lord it was too hard, they dropped banner every 20-30 sec for 1 hour straight, at the end people started to died, and they finally got enough numbers to kill us. So they kept losing various battle inside garrison for 1 hour straight and still manage to hold garrison because of banner lord.
TL;DR fought 1 hour straight because the lord got ress with banner at least 50 times(no kidding on the number), question valid tactic or not?

I now have some question for Devon/Anet:

1)Do you think that banner the lord( warrior warbanner) is a valid tactic or need to be fixed?
2)Should the lord be ressable only by people while pressing F instead of dropping some skill that some class have access, from range while requeding only one people.
3) If the banner the lord stay can we atlest don’t reset the capping progression in the ring every time?
4) Everything i asked above is techincal difficult/Time consuming? Can we excpet a change in like the 2 months?( Of course only you feel a change is need

Ty for your time Dev wvw team, any awnser will be deeply appreciated

Why not just kill the players first? Then there will be no warriors to banner the lord.

We were there too enjoying our share of the kill fest. We DID kill the players over and over and over again, every 3mins they could Waypoint back in, and they had their entire zone in there.

Every ELE, Necro, Guardian and warrior was using signets/banner to res the lord. 60+ Rezzes easily. When a warrior runs in with endure pain and stability and casts his banner its hard to stop, when your already trying to keep the ring clear of foes.

PS the ring progression reseting on lord rez is soooo bad. When its that easy and often to rez. Sometimes he was getting ressed 3 or 4 times every 5mins easily.

I think I racked up several hundred if not over a 1000 kills though.

Sometime you cap a keep and sometimes you get a thousand kills in a hour. Sorry that you cant have ALL the things.

Personally…. I like that people can banner lords… it lets small groups hold off larger groups for a larger amount of time while waiting for reinforcements. Heck, when FC was with IoJ and DH, we used this to defend our keep against a group 3 to 5 times our size till we finally pushed them out some hour later.

It might just be my preference or perhaps I see nothing wrong with a good defense when it works. But my feelings on this are that the defending team needs the edge more then the offensive does.

So cheers to the team work holding off the larger group. Banners/signets. Use them if you got them.

Ye but when its 40-50+ guys (2 separate guild raids) vs entire zone of 100 and FOUR classes all are equipping the rez, with the lord being rezzed ALL the time, on top of the progression bar (RESETING) keeping them out of the circle is a challenge in itself – keeping them over 1200ft away from a lords body AND having to start a fresh progession bar each time (it used to stay as filled as u got it!) is borderline ridiculous. How do you stop 100 lemmings throwing themselves at you.

While I like the concept of ressing him for small groups – the progression circle never used to reset. It does these days. Its just another mechanic that rewarded having the bigger force. Sure they can feel like winners for keeping the garrison, we enjoyed the farm. Doesn’t make it right or working as intended though.

It almost felt like cross realming the amount of champ bags we were getting. I like he should get immunity to being ressed after 3-4 times, then has to be manual “F”. Just a thought. As it got kinda ridiculous after the 50+ times.

No cheers Talyn… they had nearly double our number. It rewarded 100 lemmings. Over and over again. No “good” work by a small group holding up opponents for reinforcements.

you do know that warbanner isn’t the only skill in the game that can insta rez a lord right? other classes have less visible skills to do it as well and with the 5 man cap on the ability if they made it so they didnt rez lords then the skills would be almost trash…
and tbh defending vs attacking a keep, the balance of power should be leaned toward the defenders side, the rez ability makes this makes this so

Yes As I mention, over 4 classes have short cast time, short CD rez. Why should 100 people who can’t beat half their number, with siege, get rewarded by being able to rez the lord over FIFTY times. On top of the kitten circle reseting <<big issue with that.

While it was fun, it got a bit repetitive killing the champ that many times :P

Yeah an other problem was after 15 minutes they started to don’t drop any more WXP ehheheeh

Killing the player first yes we did that multiple times started the evening on the low 33k kill and end over 34k and half, everytime the enter we killed them there is always someone ready to ress the lord from distance and safe, this tactics is the same has hold a point with a bunker in pvp the problem here is the cap get reset, and bunker can rotate over 1 hour without any problem.

I’m ok if they build Siege in keep because they can’t really fight, will counter that.
I’m ok if they want to rush back to safe their keep, but at the end we need two things, if the lord the get ress with a banner the progressin can’t be reseted every time, or if they wanted reset well the banner of the lord must go away, because it promotes people rushing in and keeping dying just to hold, at end after 20 min on top of lord room on the roof they start portal people from outside out to over the roof in lord room when they over 50 people they started to move(many Ac we’re already build)

I personally went up top 6 times during that fight, killed the lord over 20 times, we reach half of the bar of capping the circle i think 5 times and one time it was a 2 tick to get capped.

Said that, yes on AM probably the commander and the mesmer tha portal people in from Citadel waypoint to the Cata spot in outer garrison, the had some sort of skill or effort, but the rest as Dranul put it is just lemmings.

Smaller group hold bigger force that’s all good just don’t reset the capping everytime the lord get ressed, there is a reason why player the down penality we might need that for the lord it self.

Anyways waiting for a dev response, this thread will stay alive until somebody from the Dev anwser my question, i want hear there opinion, because in case they think the tactics is fine, i’m ok with that, i just want a clear anwser.

Ty everybody for the feedback and time that you took to anwser this thread

Tbh I’d rather it stayed, the Lord ressing thing has saved our Valley from ER insta-omega-building blobs at 3 in the morning once or twice in this matchup, and repeatedly around 11pm, they golem rush and facerub alllll of the things; it’s horribubble enough that they have the whole map most of the morning and sometimes afternoon, when we finally get a tier 3 keep, not having to rush entirely into their 60+ horde in order to slowly res the Lord is a good thing, plus the 20 or so of us there would like to keep the place and its upgrades, banner ressing is one of the only things that does that.

Ressing the lord is alright but the circle should not reset until all attackers have been cleared from it and it’s being only held by defenders (such as in sPvP for example).

We definitely had the better of the fighting, kept the circle controlled only by us despite a massive number of defenders, but broken mechanics kept us from capping and people eventually basically left from boredom.

If I want a PvE farm I’ll do it on Cursed shore or whatever. I will say that this is definitely the best way to farm champion loot at the moment.

@Immolator i understand your point but the problem there is not the banner lord is the possibility to rush with omega golem, that’s the problem, If the banner lord will be still inside the game, it shouldn’t reset the capping status, i doesn’t in pvp you keep fighting over a point and you keep having you’re progress but in wvw you can cheese it forever until you just overrun the enemy with numbers and not skill.
That mechanic yesterday, help bad defender that kept losing every fight for one hour to keep a garrison that it shouldn’t. it rewards blob server more than small group. because a small group can banner one time but a mega blob can banner/ress forever without getting in any danger

Banner isn’t the only skill that can res a claimer. Many classes have one. Even healing fields like shadow refuge put its health up. Im not sure if Mesmer has a way to res claimer, I know every other can.

Yeah the banner is probably the most used, it was just to raise awerenss to the problem can a dev anwser on what they think about this

If you remove banner lord then huge groups will win every single time without fail, screw dem small groups and lower population/coverage servers

@OP. If you do not enjoy non-stop fighting, perhaps WvW is not for you. The banner adds a smart way to defend towers or keeps.

@Immolator you’re talking of an other problem, yes banner is a tool for smaller group, what i’m asking is if we keepthe banner in tha game that ress npc, can we at least get that banner doesn’t reset the cap. Coverage wars and small group aganist group must be solved in other way, is not a banner problem.

@Style have you even read what i typed? probably not because i never said i didn’t enjoy it, so go read again what i asked.

Yes banner add a layer to the combat and that is good, the problem has i said, when there is no limit, no balance to the banner mechanic, in pvp something like block an attack is good and helps the game in skill cap, think what will happend if you could block too much or perma block? This is the same thing, a mechanic is in the game and there is no limit, and get chessed to infinite when you roll with a massive blob you can ress forever without any penality and any real effort, that’s where the problem is, a balance with banner the lord and keep bannering for 1 hour straight while keep losing every battle and still kept garrison because of a broken mechanic that got cheesed to infinite.
Just want to hear the Devs opinion.

I don’t get this complaint at all. You seem to be complaining that you had a non-stop bag delivery service for hours, and you wanted it to end?

There should be rewards for “lemming” yourself into superior numbers again and again. This mindset of PvD and easy takings is epidemic in WvW and is not what it was meant to be. Taking keeps should be arduous and require the efforts of most of your server’s fighters (in that zone). It should be incredibly hard to take someone’s spawn keep and if you can do it it should because of pure effort.

Long live the Warbanner!

Making it not reset the cap makes it redundant, because a half health NPC versus 90+ megablob is gonna last all of 2 seconds :P

Chris.3290:

There should be rewards for “lemming” yourself into superior numbers

They’ve said numerous times they didn’t have superior numbers.
Currently banners do a good job of somewhat negating a full map zerg golem rushing a keep before you have a realistic chance to react but its a crutch. Its one lame mechanic papering over another and it should be removed.

Chris, is not a complain, is about a question to devs i want to know what they think about it, i want to give them my feedback and possibily the feedback of the community.

We didn’t have superior number, i was running with 35-40, tup with 25-30 they had the entire map there of course i don’t think the number help them too much, i think the limit of the the map is 75-80 so for the number side it was fine.
And again we’re talking about 2 things one a mega blob that rush garrison and than you try to hold it with you’re few men, in that case i see the best solution to banner still reset but the CAP doesn’t reset, aganist want happend to us, 2 guild group attakc a t3 garrison, we split the blob with Tup attacking hill and we attack garrison, we use tactic to defeat the blob. Tup hold enough for us to open garrison, and we push in lord, the blob start to come back and we wipe most of them, and they start to banner the lord without stop for one hour.

Our situation was, AM had a bit more number that us, they still kept losing fight all the time we coudn’t cap because of constat banner reset.
Has Caid said, the problem that Immolator is talking is like a banda-aid after you don’t a leg is not going to work we need different fix for the blob problem, here we’re talking about Ressing npc with skills, if it can scale with the number of people better, but we must have a balance on that so it doesn’t became a lame mechanic.

Try fighting Elona then tell me that banner ressing should be nerfed I’ve seriously never had that much of a problem with it, let alone an hour worth, what you are proposing would mean 1hour is converted into 2 minutes at the very most, which kinda makes it useless as kitten. It benefits every single large group on the map infinitely more than the lower coverage server to remove it or change it. Seeing as this is the first ever post I’ve seen complaining abou the issue, it can’t really be that much of a problem anyway.

Immolator.5640:

Try fighting Elona then tell me that banner ressing should be nerfed I’ve seriously never had that much of a problem with it, let alone an hour worth, what you are proposing would mean 1hour is converted into 2 minutes at the very most, which kinda makes it useless as kitten. It benefits every single large group on the map infinitely more than the lower coverage server to remove it or change it. Seeing as this is the first ever post I’ve seen complaining abou the issue, it can’t really be that much of a problem anyway.

If throwing a banner on the lord resets capping progression compared to actually manually resurrecting him which does not, then there is a design flaw that should be fixed to one way, or another, or at least work oppositely, all there is too it.

Immolator.5640:

Try fighting Elona then tell me that banner ressing should be nerfed .

We shouldn’t be fighting Elona eze, its a completely and utterly absurd, broken, rediculous match up. Anything that happens in this match up really shouldn’t be the basis of any design decisions.
Having one broken mechanic ‘fixing’ another broken mechanic is kittenty design. Just remove the two broken mechanic’s.

I don’t see the problem here at all. If you wanted the place captured, you would clear out all the players. If you spent the effort attacking the players rather than killing the huge-HP boss again and again you’d probably have captured it.

As someone else has said, we don’t need to reward Player-vs-door. Defense should be viable.

You don’t lose ground by spending more time successfully clearing out a keep. The doors that are down will stay down. The walls that are busted will stay busted. No siege will respawn. Veteran guards are seldom more than loot incentives to continue the fight. The only thing that could go wrong is if people use the few-seconds lull in defense timers to waypoint a lot of reinforcements in, and I’ve seldom ever seen that happen.

TheGreatA.4192:

Ressing the lord is alright but the circle should not reset until all attackers have been cleared from it and it’s being only held by defenders (such as in sPvP for example).

This seems like a fine solution to me. Eventually in that time you guys would have capped it if the ring hadn’t been constantly reset.

@Immolator has i said multiple times you are talking about the blob problem not the banner, Gandara as Caid said shoudnl’t fight Elona the matchup is complety broken, is an other problem we can’t take specific matchup as example, because we need to see from every point of view. This might be first thread but the mechanic got changed a bit of time ago, before banner the lord didn’t reset now it does so is changed and problem arise. Ideal situation is you fight with the same numbers inside garrison, the group that wins the fight and doesn’t die should cap from my perspective.

@Chickenshoes, we clear up most of the player but we fight an entire map in one single point, well is hard to get every single one of them when with only one skill of one people can reset the cap, we didn’t PvDoor we fought them, we split them, they lost the battle, but because of a broken mechanic they kept their garrison.
The waypoiting back is constaly used every time that’s an other broken mechanic that dev already anwser that, they said they wanted to fix that but we still haven’t seen anything.

Probably the best solution is, skill still ress npc but it doesn’t reset the circlle ever, ressing with people it should reset the circle because you take the effort, you expose your self in a positional disavantage to reset the capping.

This has been complained about before, nothing will be done, but yeah it is an annoying mechanic. Only thing you can do, is try and lure the lord to a place they won’t be able to access easily when they port in.

@multivira yeah i’m trying to raise awareness until they anwser i’ll keep posting here , because for now we don’t have any statement on it, after we got their opinion on it i’m happy even if they want to keep it like this.

Banner lord is ok imo.

There should be tho

a) a “CD” on it.
b)as you said, ppl able to WP in every 3 mins is a huge flaw, w/o it you wouldn’t have experienced anything like that
c) as usual, it’s the zoneblob meta that leds to this situations.

Make lord dropping his exotic bag after every res and i will be ok with it. But i already see exploits and “lord-trading”, so it’s unlikely be done

@Rednik the exotic bag already drops every time, Tup got over 20 bags, i kept opening mine.

Nope, unless it was changed today. Because yesterday i was on 20min SM assault and got only 2 bags. Bag drop resets only if you leave the lord room and lord gets out of combat, if enemy perform usual banner res, you don’t get anything.

ok if it happens again i’ll check it out, anyways from my own guild mates word many people got multiple exotic bag from the lord, one for everytime we kill him, anyways next time i’ll check it again and keep updated here

Previously in the game bannering the lord did not reset the capping circle like it does now. As many people have suggested and as some seem to agree it is viable, reseting the cap progress is a little to strong. I was at the garrison fight and over that 1 hour and 10 minutes we had the circle to 60-80% five to ten times.

Personally I like the banner mechanic but I believe that the circle should not be reset when a banner is placed much liek TheGreatA points out.

I am quite certain that banner ressing did not reset the cap progression before and would love to hear if it is a bug, new feature implemented or I am wrong about the past.

Either way would be nice to fix it to work like PvP

This game has way to much res/rally to start with, banner rally should just be outright removed from the game. Just another zerglet crutch.

Has vorago posted, it would be nice if it worked like pvp, for points.

I lost a bay cap yesterday to banner lord rezzes. I feel your pain. IMO it should have diminishing returns. Like each time the lord rezzes with less HP like a player does.

Amelia Knox.9362:

the exotic bag already drops every time, Tup got over 20 bags, i kept opening mine.

Interesting. I expect that will be changed.

@Lioka Yesterday night happend the same thing again in bay we kept killing lord the banner than the waypoint 80 people inside bay aganist 40 of us

Well the true problem is that the banner isn’t supposed to rez DEAD guys it’s supposed to rez DOWNED guys, like any other skill that revives players. It should never actually work on an NPC at all since NPCs don’t get a downed state. They go straight to dead. By that principle this capability should either be removed or other skills extended to effect dead allies and NPCs.

it specifically says it works on npcs

Well it shouldn’t but I guess if it does this was intended. It needs diminishing returns or something though. A group of 5 warriors could completely block the capture of any objective because of this. And why doesn’t it rez the other NPCs?

@Shoe no i doesn’t the word npc is never mention in the description
This is the text from the skill
“Place a battle standard that revives fallen allies and grants fury, might, and swiftness to allies.”

It say “allies”, we can assume that it means Npc but until a dev anwser we don’t know that is just an assumption, anyways even if it meant to ress defeated npc, many arguments made in this thread are favorable to limit or a non-reseting of the cap, or some mechanic to stop the cheesing after a while. Guess we wait for a Dev anwser.

@Lioka qiao the other npc body disapear

Still waiting for an anwser Dev pls

AndrewSX.3794:

Banner lord is ok imo.

There should be tho

a) a “CD” on it.

Problem solved. Lord gets 30 stacks of:

One Foot in the Grave 6 seconds

• Stacks duration
• Cannot be resurrected with abilities
• Resurrect abilities removes one stack

Effectively 3 minutes of resurrection invulnerability – but that duration can be whittled down by wasting res abilities on the lord.

Similar to defiant: http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Defiant

I was filled with dread at the dev response, and see it’s instead a beacon of sanity.

Thank you!