Guild Wars 2

DevonCarver.5370:

Using banners to rez is absolutely okay with us. That said, we have looked into and will continue to look into ways to make it a little less zany. But the reality is, you should kill the warriors.

This is what many players don’t realize and just keep hitting/nuking whatever is the closest to them. I advice people to really look at the classes on the field and pick targets they think are extremely beneficial for the enemy. If you are defending a keep in the lord room, don’t chase the ranger, go after a warrior.

I believe Anet said the same thing that blocking treb shots/pult shots with ele focus 4 and other similar skills was absolutely okay. Until they got rid of it.

So basically the same advice as http://www.penny-arcade.com/comic/2007/09/21/

DevonCarver.5370:

Using banners to rez is absolutely okay with us. That said, we have looked into and will continue to look into ways to make it a little less zany. But the reality is, you should kill the warriors.

Ty for anwser, it helps getting a more clear picture of the Dev Vision for wvw,
i think the problem is on use of waypoint while under-attack and banner ressing.
If banner ressing is allow and valid tactic even when spam it, waypoint while underattack might no be?

I don’t remember correctly and i might be wrong, did some dev said that they were looking to fix the waypoint underattack problem?, Not sure i might be wrong on this, i think it was a long time ago anwser.

An other little things, what you guys(Dev) think about the resetting of the cap with every banner, that’s ok or something you gonna look into it?

Ty again for the anwser

DevonCarver.5370:

Using banners to rez is absolutely okay with us. That said, we have looked into and will continue to look into ways to make it a little less zany. But the reality is, you should kill the warriors.

The reality is, we cannot see anyone with all these partical effects and zerging what is been going in high population servers.

You realize we are not a 10v10v10 testing server right?

DevonCarver.5370:

Using banners to rez is absolutely okay with us. That said, we have looked into and will continue to look into ways to make it a little less zany. But the reality is, you should kill the warriors.

So fighting almost double your number, garrison is a big place – your meant to stop them ALL getting close, when every THREE minutes they can ALL waypoint into keep (flawed system) AND everytime they banner rez/signet rez/utility rez the PROGRESSION OF THE CAP RESETS <<<< THAT IS THE PROBLEM. 60+ lord rezzes in over an hour, not complaining about the constant action but the mechanics is flawed. It never used to reset progression.

Keeping a whole zone out of a circle is hard enough when out numbered almost 2-1, but then having the cap reset EACH and EVERY time the lord is rezzed from upto 1200ft away btw…

Your comments are just like “bring more people, zerg up, kill them all before they get within 1200ft range of the lord”. So please let me know if you are endorsing Zerg play?

How bout commenting on the actual mechanics. The reseting of the progression circle is just plain wrong – it never used to do that!

Ps: its not so much about warriors btw over 4 classes can rez lord from upto 1200ft range.

I do not agree with the last person who comments on this, the game mode WvW, is made to fight like who have the most people, and who have the most coverage. Yes it sucks to have less people in you server but it is like USA fights SWEDEN.. USA will win because they have more people.

You will face another server next week, just try to have fun. WvW cannot be balanced.

Hrist.8972:

DevonCarver.5370:

Using banners to rez is absolutely okay with us. That said, we have looked into and will continue to look into ways to make it a little less zany. But the reality is, you should kill the warriors.

This is what many players don’t realize and just keep hitting/nuking whatever is the closest to them. I advice people to really look at the classes on the field and pick targets they think are extremely beneficial for the enemy. If you are defending a keep in the lord room, don’t chase the ranger, go after a warrior.

It got to the point that it everyone was ressing with abilities. Guardians Healing Signet, Ele’s Signet, Necro Signet, Mesmer utility and ofc Warrior Banner. They ALL equipped rez and threw themselves at us. Over and over again. Nothing against banners, just the mechanics of resetting progression of cap on rez = flawed, combined with every 3m whole zone can WP in… without “zerg play” which Devon seems to endorse – what is 50-60 guys spose to do vs 100 (besides farm them for nearly 90mins). We are players that see flaws with mechanics and even the dev just solely talks about one class and “kill them all” rather than information on whether the progression reset is – working as intended / plans to change? Same for the waypoint every 3mins… Working as intended? / plans to change?

Question is anet a fan of Zergplay? From WXP to everything else, it seems you are.

Magnetron.5823:

I do not agree with the last person who comments on this, the game mode WvW, is made to fight like who have the most people, and who have the most coverage. Yes it sucks to have less people in you server but it is like USA fights SWEDEN.. USA will win because they have more people.

You will face another server next week, just try to have fun. WvW cannot be balanced.

We farmed them for 90+mins. Its not that we couldn’t live and kill.. But try stopping 100 guys of which over 50% of them, have access to a res (of which they all equipped) and having a keep lord rez over 60+ times is ok with you?

Your missing the point. Waypointing in 100 every 3mins becomes a joke, resetting the cap EACH rez is a joke (it never used too!).

Mechanics stopped us winning the keep, not the 100 players. Skill needs to be rewarded don’t you think?

Or are you a fan of “bring more numbers = win”? WvW is / has turned into Zergball, more and more servers avoid fights and play for WXP.

Not asking for balance, not complaining about blobs or coverage, we fight 20-30 vs whole zone, I don’t care about that. I’m saying the mechanics make it IMPOSSIBLE to take garrison from 100 people – the mechanics (flawed) when combined just make it worse.

I think if anybody saw video of the battle that’s being talked about they could only agree that there were some issues. Mesmers portaling players from citadel straight into garrison (I find it hard to believe this is intended), lord being ressed close to a hundred times with the circle reseting each time, a mass of players waypointing inside time and time again.

Now it’s difficult enough to clear out the middle field against such large numbers which keep pouring in, but having to keep the middle clear while protecting the lord from all the players trying to res it (which instantly destroys all progress made and resets the field), is an impossible feat. You will not be able to completely wipe a hundred players, who continue to portal back into the keep, within the small timeframe that you have before they respawn in such a large area as the Garrison.

Certainly the system doesn’t work on such a massive scale and heavily favours the defenders. Perhaps a player should receive a spawn penalty for dying too many times in a row or the cap field should be treated as in sPvP, where you have to clear out the attackers before you can neutralize it.

Dranul.2094:

Magnetron.5823:

I do not agree with the last person who comments on this, the game mode WvW, is made to fight like who have the most people, and who have the most coverage. Yes it sucks to have less people in you server but it is like USA fights SWEDEN.. USA will win because they have more people.

You will face another server next week, just try to have fun. WvW cannot be balanced.

We farmed them for 90+mins. Its not that we couldn’t live and kill.. But try stopping 100 guys of which over 50% of them, have access to a res (of which they all equipped) and having a keep lord rez over 60+ times is ok with you?

Your missing the point. Waypointing in 100 every 3mins becomes a joke, resetting the cap EACH rez is a joke (it never used too!).

Mechanics stopped us winning the keep, not the 100 players. Skill needs to be rewarded don’t you think?

Or are you a fan of “bring more numbers = win”? WvW is / has turned into Zergball, more and more servers avoid fights and play for WXP.

Not asking for balance, not complaining about blobs or coverage, we fight 20-30 vs whole zone, I don’t care about that. I’m saying the mechanics make it IMPOSSIBLE to take garrison from 100 people – the mechanics (flawed) when combined just make it worse.

Skill did win. They used their utilities efficiently and held you off.

You couldn’t stop them. They had superior numbers. You apparently couldn’t rally more to help. They did, and eventually threw you out.

You were a commendable smaller force to essentially farm them for a while there. Well done. But they beat you.

The end.

A simple solution (imo atleast), could be to introduce a short debuff on the lord after he got ressed that prevents players from being able to ress him again for a short duration, and this duration could be increased every time the lord does get ressed afterwards (after the defenders have waited out the timer).

@CEThelucid, skill did not win, the lost every fight inside that garrison until they portal enough on top of the roof to blob us down.
Yes we can’t rally more because guess what, in the server there is not more people to rally, there is no skill involve in that, is about number, not skill.

Or maybe skill is about recruiting guild and people to a server, come on man, we can’t use that as solution, is broken, blobbing is a big problem, population imbalance is a big problem, what we are asking here is just don’t reset the cap and go full broken mechanic.
The defenders can already waypoint in while underattack, they can rush-die almost forever, i’m pretty 30 people that rush die in the circle can hold it forever with a good rotation.

@Magnetron, Wvw can be balance is we freaking try, is implement thing to make it better instead of useless crap.

What i would like to see is Waypoint can’t be use underattack and cap don’t reset, Waypoint thing can’t be intenional, Cap reset can be intenional by the devs, but it complety cheese every possibile tactics inside Garrison and other keep.

DevonCarver.5370:

Using banners to rez is absolutely okay with us. That said, we have looked into and will continue to look into ways to make it a little less zany. But the reality is, you should kill the warriors.

I can’t believe I missed this thread (and especially the above response)..

Dranul.2094:

Why should 100 people who can’t beat half their number, with siege, get rewarded by being able to rez the lord over FIFTY times.

because you let them. It’s not that hard to pull the lord somewhere where they can’t banner him.

gebrechen.5643:

Dranul.2094:

Why should 100 people who can’t beat half their number, with siege, get rewarded by being able to rez the lord over FIFTY times.

because you let them. It’s not that hard to pull the lord somewhere where they can’t banner him.

Because you dont have time to pull the lord around while 5+ arrowcarts is firing on you. And theres noway you can prevent a warrior from bannering, endure Pain and stability.

DevonCarver.5370:

But the reality is, you should kill the warriors.

If they bring the numbers and you can’t hold the circle, everything is working as it should. I read “we farmed them with half our number” but obviously that wasn’t enough to take the keep.
They did a good job preventing the enemy from capping.

If you cant take it with a 2 to 1 ratio your doing it wrong.

1. Kill all siege.

2. Scout on watergate.(thats where they are waiting)

3.Ranged on lord.

4.Meleetrain around lordsroom and wait for waypoints (static eles = on wp)

5.Let someone count the waypointtimer.

6.Every boon strip ingame needed.

7.Target every warrior (or other classes with rez)

8. It can take while, true.

We did this vs vizu in eu prime to many times, if we could do vs viz you can do it vs everyone. It can take while and it is a pain.

Concentration+ communication wins it.

And if the Warrior uses Endure Pain with Balanced Stance with Last Stand, you’re basically out of luck.

Oeps Rolls Necro.2594:

If you cant take it with a 2 to 1 ratio your doing it wrong.

We’re not talking about a 2:1 ratio. We’re talking about a 1:1-1:2 ratio where we’re unable to cap simply because we can’t kill them all quick enough because they use the waypoint to get in every 3rd minute AND they banner the lord over and over. This happened last night in a T3 Bay we were taking on homeland. We eventually took it but only after the lord getting bannered 4 times and them porting in 2 times using the WP.

And if you say “cover the waypoint with ranged”, do you know how stupid that would be if you’re fighting an even or outmanned battle already? You can’t waste any members then just sitting there focusing on the waypoint, because those people will die and you also won’t kill the others as efficiently.

My bad about the ratio, first take coffee then read :P

And im not saying ranged on WP.
Ranged is around lordsroom (or any tactical place where you killed the lord)

You need 1 in TS count the timer and 2 eles holding their statics. Most of the time when we capped it is around 1 min after the waypoint.

Your scout yells timer up, eles drop statics on wp and bomb. (and someone is contesting it again).
You wiped the blob, your guy at the watergate tells whats hanging around there and everyone else is hunting the last ones.

But if fighting it outmannend, gl. And imo its not fair/fun and a broken mechanic.

Orangu.4213:

gebrechen.5643:

Dranul.2094:

Why should 100 people who can’t beat half their number, with siege, get rewarded by being able to rez the lord over FIFTY times.

because you let them. It’s not that hard to pull the lord somewhere where they can’t banner him.

Because you dont have time to pull the lord around while 5+ arrowcarts is firing on you. And theres noway you can prevent a warrior from bannering, endure Pain and stability.

You should be clearing the siege before you try to fully engage. Your team’s fault for not doing that.

Well if the waypoint will be finally fixed so that you can’t waypoint while underattack that’s a start, keeping suiciding on the lord to ress him and is the same tactics that tried to fix on Tpvp, the game highly incosistant. For now is still number beats skill, keep it Anet, the game yet no death need a bit more bad stuff to kill it completly

I really hate the level of reading comprehension by a lot of folks on forums in general.

We moved the lord to many many places. GTAOE Rezzes work through walls/doors. Saw more than once a banner rez placed outside Seagate garrison rez the lord on inside.

There are 5+ classes that can rez. Killing warriors as the solution as devon calls it – just proof he doesn’t know his own game.

As pointed out a warrior with beserker stance and endure pain and stability hanging around above out of sight – due to the chaos and madness of constantly fighting 100 guys with just <50. Is impossible to stop him getting close and doing the rez.

The problem is the mechanic of the circle progression bar, resetting EVERY single time the lord gets ability-rezzed. We got it to within 1 tick several times, but there is only so much you can do against double your number, with free mass teleport inside every 3mins.

The farm was good, not complaining – just highlighting 2 broken mechanics working in tandem with each other that leads to a really broken game mechanic.

Has anyone noticed that the problem seems to be moreso that enemies can waypoint into contested keeps instead of banner/signet etc ressing lords?

If people couldn’t get back to the keep in 3 minute cycles then it would be much easier to prevent a banner res.

I mentioned this problem a while back in a Q and A thread, dev said he would look into it then all the people whined saying that they didn’t want it removed so the dev recanted. So the devs arnt going to fix it because we players didn’t want it fixed.

Since when can you waypoint into a contested location?

Bunnymancer.6901:

Since when can you waypoint into a contested location?

In WvW, There is a event timer that contests the WP. When that timer hits 0 there is a brief time (maybe 2-4 seconds) that the WP is uncontested. In that short time you are able to WP in.

For anyone (like Devon Carver) who doesn’t understand how this works, you pop Endure Pain and/or have Last Stand traited, use Balanced Stance, drop the Battle Standard, then die and run back – you can run back from anywhere on the map in the time it takes for those skills to refresh. Repeat. It works better the more you have; a half dozen ultra-heavies with Battle Standard can prevent a capture indefinitely.

It is not impossible to stop this; if you have a much larger force, can wipe everyone else, and post kill teams at every single entrance to keep them from making it back to the lord pit (caveat: it’s hard to stop an ultra heavy warrior from making it to the lord pit). It is, however, ridiculously hard to stop this in comparison with how easy it is to execute.