Guild Wars 2

I haven’t played a lot of WvW but my first impressions have been pretty good. I’ve played in a small group of 5 of us trying to take various towers, I’ve tried as a duo and pretty much just been pwned which I expected and I’ve also tagged onto a zerg and roamed around steamrolling everything.

That’s my problem though, my initial impressions are pretty much that it’s either zerg or die. If you roam in a small group then it just seems like the enemy zerg will get you at some point. Just like if you’re in a zerg then it’s just no challenge at all.

It also seems like I never have a decent fight with people no matter how I’m playing. There’s almost an instant decision of “Yes I can take this person/group” or “No, I don’t stand a chance so I need to run”. There has never been a moment where I’ve had a lengthy battle against a group where it’s been a fair fight. It seems like the only things that matters is how many players you have compared to them.

So my question really is how is WvW best played? I’m still fairly new to it so have actually only encountered a zerg vs ‘big group’ encounter once and to be honest I think we outnumbered them by quite a bit so they died quickly and there wasn’t much skill involved. Are equal zerg vs zerg encounters a bit more common the longer you play?

What I’d like to see is more bonus’s for defenders especially against zerg attackers. We were defending our big keep the other day with 10-15 defenders against a pretty big zerg. We didn’t stand a chance, they could just pound our walls with AoE’s so we couldn’t stop their siege rams and then they just flooded in and took the keep within minutes. Perhaps I’m being geeky but every fantasy film I’ve seen the defenders have been able to defend against 10x attackers and that just isn’t possible when you can barely stand on the walls without being pounded.

Perhaps defensive bonus’s for being inside a keep? Maybe the enemy can’t crit-hit you or can’t inflict conditions?

What do you think? And any advice on the best way to play wvw would be great. I do enjoy it but if a commander isn’t online it just feels like a bit of a slaughter-fest of an enemy zerg pwning small groups of randoms.

What tier are you in? Lower tiers have better skirmish/roaming fights. Higher tiers are zerg fests.

If you don’t know how to avoid getting hit by a zerg when running in a small group, then you probably deserved it.

well zerg fights are acaully require skill if numbers are matched (take or give 5 people). and havoc groups are suppose to run from zergs and kill roamers. you were acaully doing your job right. But it does all depend what tier server you are in.

That’s what makes roaming exciting to me though, lol. Zergs are like an environmental hazard, they can roll through at any time and if you’re not constantly aware of your surroundings you’re going to get rolled. Don’t roam on the roads, take shortcuts and back ally’s, don’t spend too long with anything you’re doing, the longer you stay in one place the more likely you’re going to get rolled. And lastly, always check your map for swords. You can scout for your server by calling out where enemies are (if you’ve seen them physically) or where you think they are (if you’ve seen swords on the map) and it gives you an idea of where you should probably avoid going unless you’re able to make a quick get away such as a Thief, Mesmer or a Warrior can accomplish.

You will die. We all do, some more frequently then others. To extend your roll and enhance your effectiveness away from a zerg you must have mobility and situational awareness. In time you will know where the larger enemy forces are moving on the map. You will be able to anticipate their movements and bait them into committing on a section of the map where you want them to fight. Never get tunnel vision. Don’t drop siege and just stare at the wall / door. Always post scouts out at a fair distance from your siege along likely enemy avenues of approach. My sequence is verify supply on hand, move to position drop siege, specify who builds and priority of build, post scouts, food check if needed. When you are hitting something be ready to move and if the defenses are about to fall don’t forget to pull in your scouts.

I roam 99.9% of the time. I have never had problem with finding fights and get a lot of kills. That being said GW2 is not roamer friendly by a long shot. There is no smooth road to go from a zerg surfer to roamer. A lot of game mechanics such as small map and access to CC for every class makes it hard to roam. The biggest hurtle imo is other roamers. If you see a solo guy on the map who is not running to join a zerg chances are he/she is a very good player and will wtf pwn you if you just started roaming.

My advice would be to seek out a roaming type of guild follow them in gp of 3-5 for a few weeks to get good then try go out solo. You will die a lot but once you become a true roamer the world is yours my friend.

Well I’m in silver league and I can tell you that there, regardless of enemy zerg size, skill and organization win most times. I have been in small groups (7-15 of us) taking on 30, and we win most times. I have been defending SMC with 15 people, where the attackers came with probably 35-40, including 10 golems, and we crushed them. Good commanders, good guild groups, make a huge difference in my league.

As for roaming, I think that’s more of a learn to know where to be, what to look for. Also, if you can PvP you have a much better chance of survival. I don’t PvP, so the only 1v1s I win are against players like me… bad ones LOL. However, I do try so that I can hopefully learn and improve. If you get caught alone by a group or zerg, well, hopefully you have spec’d for some getaway mechanic (stealth, blink, rush, swiftness, etc), or you’re toast.

If only roamers HP/attack/armor scaled like PVE bosses when facing a zerg

In addition to the server you’re on (huge factor), the map you play on, the time of day you play, and even area of the map can make a big difference for success as a roamer/seeker of small fights. I’m in NA Silver and lots of times our home BL is mostly small fights, other than during reset and evenings. I rarely zerg, as I’m mostly into defensive preparation, supply management, and keeping the home BL under control.

Again, speaking from the NA Silver perspective, the farther south you go on your home BL, the more likely you are to run into multiple enemies, though I believe it’s pretty common for people who want 1v1s to go to the windmill south of the southernmost supply camp. You’re generally less likely to get run over by a zerg on the northern half of your own BL, but you’ll also probably see more thieves solo roaming than anything else up there, in my experience. You’ll probably also see more roamers on the NE area of the map, compared to the NW area, since the NW area offers little cover.

You can also try enemy BLs, especially the BL of the weakest enemy in the matchup (if that’s not your server). If you already see some camps and a tower or two on the map your server’s color, then you can either try to run with whoever is there, or work an opposite area of the map. If the existing group triggers swords on a camp or tower, you can then attack a different camp in hopes of both taking the camp and also pulling anyone who didn’t respond to defend the other camp your direction (if you are looking for fights). Be advised that you’d better be able to take the camp quickly, or you’ll be dealing with both the camp NPC’s and enemies at the same time.

As far as defending goes, yeah, it’s often tough, but some structures are easier to defend than others, and when they are upgraded, well supplied, and have had someone who know’s what they are doing siege them up they can be very difficult to take, even by much greater numbers. Give me 30 minutes in a fully upgraded Garrison with 1700 supply and I can make that thing almost impossible to take by all but the most determined of zergs, as long as I have people manning the siege and hitting the right targets/areas at the right times. Of course, a large force attacking a small force holed up in a keep always has the advantage, but a lot of times they don’t have the knowledge or determination to progress through their options. They’ll usually try one or two things then leave, at least for awhile, either due to lack of supply, or acceptance of failure.

The game does support various levels of group play, but people will tend to blob up. That shouldn’t discourage you from trying smaller group or solo play as well though, you just have to remember that about others and work that to you advantage.

First, don’t get discouraged from getting killed, learn from it.

Second, use the PvP (recommend regular team) game to help you find builds you like. Now I know we are taking WvW but WvW doesn’t allow you to retest a build against the same opponent enough to determine the strengths and weaknesses to a build. PvP is also a good practice ground to determine classes that might give your class and build a problem if you find them in WvW. I would also recommend finding multiple builds. That way if you go from solo hunting to group or warband you can have different builds ready that might fit different roles. And if you are lucky enough to find someone that slaughters you in PvP you can spectate and determine how they run their build to see what you can learn on how to counter it or how you might be able to employee similar tactics.

Now back in WvW, don’t throw away a build you found works for you based on a couple of encounters. Make sure you are giving it a reasonable test. I would also strive to find a build that allows you to take on camps solo. This helps in some of the job roles below. This build you can practice in WvW unless your side is dominate during your play time.

Now if you are running solo you need to determine what you want to do, and realize the difference between other solo hunters and people running to rejoin their side. Solo hunters will see you and charge. These will be the tougher fights, pick and choose based on your other objectives. Respawners may be a mixed lot but tend to be easier to chew one if you are new. Watch out for groups, because as stated above you are their target.

If your scouting make sure you are working on being quick and precise. The longer you text the more likely someone is going to notice and intercept you. Telling everyone that there is incoming doesn’t help. Side, numbers, location, activity and direction.

If you are running havoc and/or a decoy then be on the move. Your job is to mis-direct their zerg. Choose your targets and take out stragglers and people re-spawning. If a zerg is heading inward pull them back by lighting up targets behind them. If you get a warband chasing you, you did your job because they are wasting resources and time on following your trail. The longer it takes them to figure out they are following a single target the better. Watch for orange swords, coming in behind two zergs fighting may grant some great targets for picking off. Also you can hunt the back trail from their nearest spawn to the target they are attacking. A lot of people run in straight lines if they are hurrying back to a fight.

Group and solo player are close but you can choose bigger fights and objectives. Pick up groups can be rough, but try and find people that you like to run with if you don’t have guildies to run with. If you can find a consistent group all the better because that opens up options as you become more familiar with their play styles and you can practice different tactics. Watch your own map chat as good havoc groups will pull pieces off of bigger warbands and zergs, if they cause the commanders to redirect his zerg at them, they won.

Also don’t forget you can get a varied environment in EoTM as well to practice on if you are not finding the type of fight you are looking for in the borderlands. I have found solo, group, warband and zerg fights all within a 15 minute spawn in the Edge at times.

Good hunting!

I find most havok groups very bad knowing when to run. Also, you need a class with escape. Running a necro is a bad idea. Basically, it is simple after that. You get a zerg to waste their time chasing you, once it stops, you turn around and pick off the few that kept coming. Rinse and repeat. Take a camp and hold it. Kill small groups that come in but once the odds are to big, escape. The most effective group I seen was one with just engineers, thieves, and mezmers. Even if you downed them, it was impossible to stomp. Even if you did that, as long as one survived, they all got rezzed.

Small groups are meant to dash in, take out a small, weak target like a camp or perhaps even an unguarded tower that has not been upgraded, then get the heck out of Dodge. It is a given that from time to time small groups will run into big groups and get annihilated. Get used to dying, even in zergs. It’s just part of WvW. If you are clever and alert, you won’t die very often in small groups, but even if you are clever and alert it’s going to happen from time to time.

If you can join a good WvW guild, you can run with a medium size (10 – 20), tightly coordinated group with voice command and have a blast. You are able to take many objectives but still have flexibility. Your contribution will matter more in a smaller group.

I both room and zerg and also give speed Dalyak to move supplies so when rooming and especially guarding caravans I get killed by bigger forces. But I report what is happing giving important information to my side for us to take advantage of.

Right now the rewards for the zerg to capture locations seam to be much greater than that of defense so under some commanders defense or reports of enemy forces are ignored even though that greatly harms that sides performance as captured locations are quickly retaken and the side with only offense loses even more areas than they took.
Now actually a zerg coming back to defend gets the zerg vs zerg battles most seam to enjoy plus if with help of defenses you crush the attacker you get a lot more personal kills than a totally offensive zerg.

But still getting people to harm themselves by the much less rewards given by running caravans, acting as scouts and manning defenses takes constant effort to sell people on sacrificing for the team.

If you’re in T1 it’s zerg or shoot people in the back as they try to run to their zerg. Seriously… 1v3 and people are running away. Oh the skill and amazing gameplay : / I’ve never seen as bad players on other servers as I have in T1.

If you’re at least in T2 you can solo roam and usually find people willing to fight. You just need to learn when/how to pick your fights and use the terrain to your advantage for when you’re outnumbered.

I love fighting against the odds in WvW, you have to pick your fights as a Guild, Roamer or even as a Zerg against the best Guilds. It’s one the best times you can have in wvw.

Defending a Keep or tower while outnumbered is not impossible if you Siege up properly – I know many people dislike defensive Siege, but it’s the only way we can defend our own Structures without a Zerg and it does feel more rewarding compared to just joining the zerg.

You don’t need a commander though, more people need to learn to take the initiative rather than follow the dorito, not that its bad to do that now and again for some social zerging. YOLO.

CrimsonNeonite.1048:

I love fighting against the odds in WvW, you have to pick your fights as a Guild, Roaming or even as a Zerg against the best Guilds.

Defending a Keep or tower while outnumbered is not impossible if you Siege up properly – I know many people dislike defensive Siege, but it’s the only way we can defend our own Structures without a Zerg and it does feel rewarding.

I think you’ve got it dead on, and it actually compliments zerg play. They’re not opposites, they’re a matched set.

Some of the most exciting moments in WvW are when a small group of people are defending against a big zerg in a well fortified position, and a well commanded friendly zerg is desperately trying to get there in time to reinforce them.

Note that you don’t get ANY of that excitement without good commanders and good communication though… I missed out on all of it the first couple times I played not knowing how to get on my server’s mumble and listen to what the hell was actually going on. As soon as I started listening to commanders and roamers talking everything changed and WvW become infinitely more fun.

if you are in T1 you better be in whatever communications your server uses. You at least want to hear what people are saying about and doing to those who are not hearing comm. It is pretty funny.

WvW isn’t just zerg or die. It’s a dance. Timing, judgment, awareness all play into that. And knowing when to move in, and when to move away. The map is your dance floor. Know it. Use it.

Small groups (4-5) can be very effective against 10-12 other players, with the right combo of builds, gear, skill and working together. Depends on the players you are up against. Our guild group (swat team, not havoc) has had skirmishes with 4 of us up against 15 and come out ok.

We’ve had skirmishes with a tight-knit havoc group that had 2 Mesmers, a Thief and Guardian and failed. Horribly. They were better dancers.

The four of us have gone up against a group of 20-25 in what felt like a marathon dance-off and held on just long enough for our zerg to sweep in as the last 2 of us were going down on a sliver.

That’s what makes WvW fun. The constant dancing.

We’ve been part of a 10-15 group multiple times, defending a keep against a zerg or two. A good commander who not only uses TS, but types in /s, players that pay attention, look and listen, using siege, engaging, falling back, re-engaging, and knowing when to do those, can defend against multiple zergs for hours, while getting in some good fights. It’s a fun dance.

All of it is a judgment in the moment, mostly based on pattern recognition and previous experience. Sometimes it goes horribly wrong. Then you need to add that fumble to your cumulative experience and hope the dance goes better next time.

Like dancing, if you want to get better, practice, practice, practice. Understand where you are on the dance floor, pick yourself up when you stumble or fall down, analyze, learn, correct, refine, and enjoy the music.

SpellOfIniquity and Phlogus left really good posts.

Hang in there, and good luck. Dying is part of WvW. It will happen. It’s what you do with it that matters.

also getting seriously hated on if you are not hearing and speaking up. The commander will repeatedly get you killed and tell those hearing him/her to not rezz you if you are not in mumble. They and all of us listening will deliberately kill you and laugh about it.

Aberrant.6749:

If you’re in T1 it’s zerg or shoot people in the back as they try to run to their zerg. Seriously… 1v3 and people are running away. Oh the skill and amazing gameplay : / I’ve never seen as bad players on other servers as I have in T1

This only happens during NA prime.

There’s very little zerging in T1 during off hours especially if you’re not in EB. Most of the guilds run about 20-30 in size and will not run from larger forces.

About the only large zerg during off hours is JQ’s EB force led by Cloud Fly. That dude runs at least 60 deep and always uses open field siege. It’s why most of TC’s off hours guilds avoid EB.

Roaming is dying, well solo roaming anyway…

Go to a BL and run around for half an hour before finding 5 enemies running together reflipping camps and sentries you have taken, if you engage them from boredom and die then they all throw siege and jump on you.

Go to Eternal Battlegrounds, solo flip some camps while 1 enemy watches you, just as you get it done you get rolled by a 40 man zerg, go flip a sentry then get rolled by 10 man “roaming groups” that emote you after they kill you….

Yer it’s either be apart of a decent WvW guild then raid with them, zerg and get tons of rewards or roam and get laughed at.

Personally I just started getting back into PvP, WvW is just a karma train comparing it to a year ago when it actually felt like a warzone and people wanted to win and not just reflip your own BL keeps every 20 minutes.

Seigfried.5938:

If only roamers HP/attack/armor scaled like PVE bosses when facing a zerg

The way the the zerg train runs down PvE bosses I suspect it would not make much difference, it would only take a bit longer before you can waypoint and relocate to a new objective.

As roamer / small group you can only avoid The Zerg, as if it were a force of nature, consider it a challenge to stay out of it’s wake, like the lynx has to avoid the wolf pack.

sephiroth.4217:

Roaming is dying, well solo roaming anyway…

Go to a BL and run around for half an hour before finding 5 enemies running together reflipping camps and sentries you have taken, if you engage them from boredom and die then they all throw siege and jump on you.

Go to Eternal Battlegrounds, solo flip some camps while 1 enemy watches you, just as you get it done you get rolled by a 40 man zerg, go flip a sentry then get rolled by 10 man “roaming groups” that emote you after they kill you….

Yer it’s either be apart of a decent WvW guild then raid with them, zerg and get tons of rewards or roam and get laughed at.

Personally I just started getting back into PvP, WvW is just a karma train comparing it to a year ago when it actually felt like a warzone and people wanted to win and not just reflip your own BL keeps every 20 minutes.

I can confirm that running in to small groups of people who enjoy taunting you like they’ve accomplished something is true, but I can also tell you that solo roaming takes practice. I rarely encounter this problem anymore because I’ve been roaming for quite some time. Although I still make mistakes from time to time and have to deal with people like this, it’s a part of my job as a roamer and a scout. I roam on a Necromancer and I can manage to stay alive and avoid being killed even when tapping enemy keeps or flipping fully upgraded camps right under their noses. You just need to know when to do those things. Checking your map constantly and never letting your guard down are two of the best ways to do that. Always check your flanks even when you’re in combat.

SpellOfIniquity.1780:

sephiroth.4217:

Roaming is dying, well solo roaming anyway…

Go to a BL and run around for half an hour before finding 5 enemies running together reflipping camps and sentries you have taken, if you engage them from boredom and die then they all throw siege and jump on you.

Go to Eternal Battlegrounds, solo flip some camps while 1 enemy watches you, just as you get it done you get rolled by a 40 man zerg, go flip a sentry then get rolled by 10 man “roaming groups” that emote you after they kill you….

Yer it’s either be apart of a decent WvW guild then raid with them, zerg and get tons of rewards or roam and get laughed at.

Personally I just started getting back into PvP, WvW is just a karma train comparing it to a year ago when it actually felt like a warzone and people wanted to win and not just reflip your own BL keeps every 20 minutes.

I can confirm that running in to small groups of people who enjoy taunting you like they’ve accomplished something is true, but I can also tell you that solo roaming takes practice. I rarely encounter this problem anymore because I’ve been roaming for quite some time. Although I still make mistakes from time to time and have to deal with people like this, it’s a part of my job as a roamer and a scout. I roam on a Necromancer and I can manage to stay alive and avoid being killed even when tapping enemy keeps or flipping fully upgraded camps right under their noses. You just need to know when to do those things. Checking your map constantly and never letting your guard down are two of the best ways to do that. Always check your flanks even when you’re in combat.

Yer I’ve been roaming for about a year now but I don’t roam to help the server, I go looking for a fight, if I see orange swords I’ll head in that direction and try and bait a few people out of the blob to attack me, I think this is why I’m liking PvP a lot lately, there are always challenging fights and people always have to attack you pretty much, can’t be running away just cause the health bar reached 50% and hide in towers with siege.

sephiroth.4217:

Roaming is dying, well solo roaming anyway…

Go to a BL and run around for half an hour before finding 5 enemies running together reflipping camps and sentries you have taken, if you engage them from boredom and die then they all throw siege and jump on you.

Go to Eternal Battlegrounds, solo flip some camps while 1 enemy watches you, just as you get it done you get rolled by a 40 man zerg, go flip a sentry then get rolled by 10 man “roaming groups” that emote you after they kill you….

Yer it’s either be apart of a decent WvW guild then raid with them, zerg and get tons of rewards or roam and get laughed at.

Personally I just started getting back into PvP, WvW is just a karma train comparing it to a year ago when it actually felt like a warzone and people wanted to win and not just reflip your own BL keeps every 20 minutes.

TBH the T1 NA fight is like a war zone. Keeps swiss cheese, fights all over the place. Big zergs running around all near each other. Siege firing everywhere.

That is why its the most fun i have had in wvw.

I have to agree. Lower tier servers have better small man fights. That being said its not impossible for a small group to kill a zerg. Here are some examples. Just look how many people come up the stairs in the 2nd video…

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=QBCFoX7NjMw

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=EFAq_BH6jQU

Lucente.5071:

I have to agree. Lower tier servers have better small man fights. That being said its not impossible for a small group to kill a zerg. Here are some examples. Just look how many people come up the stairs in the 2nd video…

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=QBCFoX7NjMw

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=EFAq_BH6jQU

Needs more warriors, guardians and arrow carts…

Sororita.3465:

Lucente.5071:

I have to agree. Lower tier servers have better small man fights. That being said its not impossible for a small group to kill a zerg. Here are some examples. Just look how many people come up the stairs in the 2nd video…

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=QBCFoX7NjMw

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=EFAq_BH6jQU

Needs more warriors, guardians and arrow carts…

And hookers, don’t forget the hookers.

I think the biggest thing is to find a guild that has similar goals to you in WvW. If you can’t find one, you can always make one. Solo roaming can be a bit frustrating I agree. However small group is some of the best times I have in WvW. Very fun and rewarding. Also you can xfers to some of the lower tiers, they are less zergy however there are still decent size groups.

Here’s some small scale roaming in bronze league. (yeah I know bronzeleaguelolz)

Just remember it’s a game, try to have fun!

Look for a decent wvw guild mate. Mindless zerg=pve

bokkieskitten.8023:

Sororita.3465:

Lucente.5071:

I have to agree. Lower tier servers have better small man fights. That being said its not impossible for a small group to kill a zerg. Here are some examples. Just look how many people come up the stairs in the 2nd video…

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=QBCFoX7NjMw

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=EFAq_BH6jQU

Needs more warriors, guardians and arrow carts…

And hookers, don’t forget the hookers.

Theres a few eles and other classes in there too. Its hard to see them because its from the perspective of a warrior. Theres really only 10-12 heavies there which isnt much against that many people

If you are constantly getting killed by enemy zergs as a roamer then the problem is with you, what tier you are in doesn’t matter. You are either geared/traited/utility slot ted incorrectly or you aren’t paying attention to your surrounding and deserved to get run over.

Even in NA tier 1, there are several good “havoc squads” of 5ish players who can camp and enemy spawn preventing zerglings from getting out, and when a guild zerg comes to clear them out they disappear and can’t be caught.

Zergs don’t bother with a small group of players. They won’t chase you only squirrels would go after you.

Soooo when you see a zerg, take a few steps to the left, they pass by, you go on doing what you did before. /end

please OP, keep telling yourself you have to zerg

you had to zerg when you decided to give up on trying

NEVER GIVE UP NEVER SURRENDER

Well I’ve played a bit more since my opening post and I’m definitely settling in a bit better. People who are saying ‘you deserve to die if you can’t tell when a zerg is coming’ have clearly forgotten what their first experiences were like. We can’t all come into WvW as pro’s…

Had a great session last night on EB, 3 zergs all in the middle keep thing (stonemist?) all in the middle room having a go at each other. Lots of zerg on zerg action as well where we actually had a good battle rather than one team completely steamrolling the other. Had a few awesome small encounters as well so yea, I’m enjoying it alot now, especially after finding my first ascended ring

Cobra that video is awesome, nice job ^^

Everything is just practice, patience and brain. Dont come to cry if u not win the whole seasone alone at the first day when your foot touchs the myst

the problem as i see it is the aoe cap and how it punishes smaller groups, we cant hit more than 5 per 5 so if were very lucky however we can be hit by 25 aoe stacks on top of us??? that’s fair isn’kitten we can only hit 5 but can be hit by 50? yeah definitely completely fair