Nec*roam*ancer.
Just always fight near a large cliff and keep spec walk on cooldown.
Nec*roam*ancer.
Just always fight near a large cliff and keep spec walk on cooldown.
Good way to kill scrubs maybe. I just pop stability and punt them off the side. When running on my thief it is even easier: CnD/long range Steal, use stolen fear. Happens so fast most go right over before they know what happened with no time for stability, condi-removal or spectral walk.
Nec*roam*ancer.
Just always fight near a large cliff and keep spec walk on cooldown.
Good way to kill scrubs maybe. I just pop stability and punt them off the side. When running on my thief it is even easier: CnD/long range Steal, use stolen fear. Happens so fast most go right over before they know what happened with no time for stability, condi-removal or spectral walk.
I got one better, and this one has worked since beta.
Signet of the Wild + Quickening Zephyr+ Long Range Shot + Eagle F2 (spam). Works wonders..
harharhar got rekt by condi spec when running power…. bet it was a power bunker or less bursty power spec then….
The problem is that conditionspecs can be bunkers and tanky as hell but still do as much dps as a full spec zerker with no survival. It’s simple – it takes one stat to go full out condition and three stats to go power.
Conditions have a wind up, power doesn’t. Power builds always try to kite and outlive condition spec’s, I see it happen all the time. They think if they play defensive and stay at range somehow they’re safe. Power damage is instant, condition damage is over time. Aggressive power spec’d builds will always beat a condition build, but 90% of power spec’d builds are too stupid to be aggressive.
Unless you’re playing a warrior with hoelbrak / melandru, -40% food, and dogged, ranged damage and kiting between burst is your only option against dire necro / perplex engi / blackwater mes / trap ranger / condi warrior. If you face roll in all the condis they can dish out point blank and ground target, you’re toast.
I can beat most of these builds with my mesmer by simply GS spamming skills and maybe using few careful MH sword burst. That doesn’t make it interesting or in any way exciting though…it can take a good 2-3 minutes to take down a dire necro with both spectral skills as they eat 95% of my damage, even if I lock down their heal skill. It’s a stupid fight where there’s no high risk turn of events where one player really outplays the other for the kill.
Then you have perplex thieves, which owe their existence to an absolutely indefensible rune and / or the one “why the kitten was this added to the game?” GM trait. There is no individual build that is a hard counter to the perplex thief that can actually kill them unless they completely screw up refuge or don’t have PvE creatures to cloak off of. Heck, very often you will see a group of 3-4 reasonably good players that can’t even kill them before they are able to break combat or refuge has reset with a safe gap.
hard counter to perplex pd thief.
hard counter to perplex pd thief.
I think you posted this same video the last time I ranted about perplexity teefs. I suppose in a technical sense a glass scepter ele with renewal is a pretty hard counter to thieves and most other condi builds that do little physical damage…but it’s a one trick pony build. A glass medi guardian with the right traits and slot skills might be able to produce a similar result if spec’d for that one particular fight and the thief didn’t run away after getting bursted once.
Thief was way too glassy for any kind of condi stacking against that ele. If they added a bit of dire, switched the hut off for a knockdown and kept the blinds up they could have won that fight.
P/D thieves when played properly cannot lose unless they screw up. They might run away but that is the worst that can happen.
Thief was way too glassy for any kind of condi stacking against that ele. If they added a bit of dire, switched the hut off for a knockdown and kept the blinds up they could have won that fight.
P/D thieves when played properly cannot lose unless they screw up. They might run away but that is the worst that can happen.
Yes they can lose. Was roaming with a condi mancer few days ago, thief didnt last long when all his condies was nearly instantly flung back at him. Call it a bad thief, but like any thief build, 1-2 seconds loss of focus and you’re dead.
Yes they can lose. Was roaming with a condi mancer few days ago, thief didnt last long when all his condies was nearly instantly flung back at him. Call it a bad thief, but like any thief build, 1-2 seconds loss of focus and you’re dead.
Poor play on his part. One heal and all of the damaging condis that can kill him are gone.
Again a decently played P/D will not outright lose a fight unless they make a significant mistake. They may “draw” a fight by running away since they cannot win but they only die if they over play their hand. Our guilds P/D thief goes days without dying and has entire guilds that simply won’t fight him any longer. It isn’t his tremendous skill at play here it is simply a gimmick build. Oh and yes a give him endless crap for being total cheese.
(edited by Straegen.2938)
Thief was way too glassy for any kind of condi stacking against that ele. If they added a bit of dire, switched the hut off for a knockdown and kept the blinds up they could have won that fight.
P/D thieves when played properly cannot lose unless they screw up. They might run away but that is the worst that can happen.
Yes they can lose. Was roaming with a condi mancer few days ago, thief didnt last long when all his condies was nearly instantly flung back at him. Call it a bad thief, but like any thief build, 1-2 seconds loss of focus and you’re dead.
Heh, I enjoy doing this also. When against condition builds it’s fun to act like I’m too scared to retaliate, camping Death Shroud letting them stack conditions on me, then hopping out to Plague Signet them and fearing them so they can’t cleanse. I’m actually excited for the changes that are happening to Mesmer because it’s going to be hilarious watching them panic when I throw all their torment back in their face then stack some of my own torment on top :P.
I’m actually excited for the changes that are happening to Mesmer because it’s going to be hilarious watching them panic when I throw all their torment back in their face then stack some of my own torment on top :P.
PU Mesmers will rejoice over the torment on the base scepter attack. So good they already had to tone it down before they released it. The ANet crew must not roam in this game if they think this is “balanced”.
By far the two most annoying (and OP) roaming builds is PU Mesmer and P/D thief. One gets torment on an auto attack and the other gets a bump to the range of their base weapon.
I’m actually excited for the changes that are happening to Mesmer because it’s going to be hilarious watching them panic when I throw all their torment back in their face then stack some of my own torment on top :P.
PU Mesmers will rejoice over the torment on the base scepter attack. So good they already had to tone it down before they released it. The ANet crew must not roam in this game if they think this is “balanced”.
By far the two most annoying (and OP) roaming builds is PU Mesmer and P/D thief. One gets torment on an auto attack and the other gets a bump to the range of their base weapon.
sorry mate, but it seems you just face too many unskilled opponents of your own in whatever tier you are in.
P/D beating a condi mancer in condi play….. sure, if it could do some burning yes, but it cannot. So…. wont happen
sorry mate, but it seems you just face too many unskilled opponents of your own in whatever tier you are in.
P/D beating a condi mancer in condi play….. sure, if it could do some burning yes, but it cannot. So…. wont happen
Condi-mancer is strong if you don’t kite it/reset the fight. Problem with a condimancer is it has extremely limited mobility which is why it is generally a poor roamer. P/D thief just waits them out or moves along. Even on my warrior I just wait for them to blow their cool downs and pound them in the dirt. Reset fight if needed. Same with virtually any class fighting a necro. Only chance a condi-necro has to win a fair roamer fight is find a less skilled opponent not used to their condi-overload. Now condi-mancer anchoring a skirmish team is deadly… scary good.
I have been in T2 for a few months now. I don’t think “unskilled” is the word I would use about this tier. IME, the number of skilled roamers are stronger than any tier I have been in which includes T2-T6.
After thinking about it, testing it some, and imagining what the buffs will mean for the build, I actually think a hybrid 4/4/6 CI mes with sword / pistol , scepter / torch and mantra of distraction will be way over the top after the patch. Build has a higher skill cap than PU, but with WvW food buffs the imobs from swap and CI last nearly 4 seconds (i-leap / swap should be far more reliable). In small groups that currently use condi warriors to lol imob lock and burst players, it could also be extremely powerful and annoying.
(edited by zen.6091)
Thief was way too glassy for any kind of condi stacking against that ele. If they added a bit of dire, switched the hut off for a knockdown and kept the blinds up they could have won that fight.
P/D thieves when played properly cannot lose unless they screw up. They might run away but that is the worst that can happen.
Thief was in dire gear, the ele burst was just insane. Toughness after a certain amount has diminishing returns.
Thief was in dire gear, the ele burst was just insane. Toughness after a certain amount has diminishing returns.
Ele was running no significant boons that amplified damage, the thief had no significant conditioning. If the thief was in dire based gear they should have been near 2800 armor. That means air hits should be doing about 2k a pop max. That thief lost around 8k on two hits. That is insane ele damage while in air which means either the ele found some way to crack 4k power or the thief had closer to 2k toughness. I can also see this thief is not running blind on stealth (a near must against power builds IMO) and probably has no control. Add those two in and take another run. The fight should be less painful to watch.
My point however still stands. That a P/D thief would not lose this fight as they would simply leave that target alone after an ineffective condi pass. This being a duel meant the thief was going to stay to the bitter end. A more likely open world tactic would have the thief trailing this player until they got into it with another opponent then pressure from a distance for an easy “win”.
(edited by Straegen.2938)
kitten s will cry. both power and condi have animation tells.
kitten s will cry. both power and condi have animation tells.
Many condi builds actually apply quite a bit of condition damage passively. Even active condi application is difficult to pin down on some builds. PU Mesmers apply condis by clone and from stealth. Condi necros in their forms have zero tells and many thief builds continually strike from a stealth position.
Beyond all that we have to contend with the smallest asuran builds using equipment that masks their skill usage.
When dealing with condi builds, I actually work off of patterns rather than counters.
for roam… it’s easy thief then others..
necro is strong in fights but lacks mobility to escape 5vs1 fights like thief or mesmer
That a P/D thief would not lose this fight as they would simply leave that target alone after an ineffective condi pass.
You can say that about any high-mobility/high stealth roaming build. Backstab not doing enough damage on d/p to take someone down? Just shadow step and shadow refuge away. Can’t lock someone down with your hammer warrior? Pop your stances, switch to GS and twirl away. Running P/U and your enemy has Diamondskin? Mass invis and blink away to safety. You get the idea.
You can say that about any high-mobility/high stealth roaming build. Backstab not doing enough damage on d/p to take someone down? Just shadow step and shadow refuge away. Can’t lock someone down with your hammer warrior? Pop your stances, switch to GS and twirl away. Running P/U and your enemy has Diamondskin? Mass invis and blink away to safety. You get the idea.
The P/D thief is tanky (for a thief), kites to beat opponents so they are rarely in melee range, has a TON of initiative, can cloak more than a straight D/P, can run more versatile utilities than a straight D/P, maintain solid DPS output, probably the fastest dueling build in the game and often have a long range steal that closes gaps better than anything in the game. Sure a S/Wh GS warrior is probably faster but not by much and they are relatively kitten versus certain other builds.
D/P builds aren’t nearly as durable so they can still get caught especially by condi-builds in particular P/D thieves. GS warriors are indeed not the fastest class out there and those stances are on some semi-long cool downs allowing them to burst away but not sustain that speed. Mesmers are slow… confusing and slippery but slow.
The P/D thief played decently is a broke as hell roamer class in WvW right on par with some PU mesmer builds.
watch this and tell me again that necros are not mobile
I see people QQ so much about torment on AA scepter, but they forgot scepter block will get a nerf on torment stacks, PU also will be nerfed by more RNG and clone death traits will see a huge nerf.
Better start worrying about IE fix for staff clones…
Condi PU is a bad roaming build: bad ooc speed, slow at taking camps… Yeah, in 1vs1 is amazingly strong, but roaming is not only fighting. Maybe that’s why I’ve seen very few condi PU recently (and I’ve fought 9 different EU servers iin the last 5 weeks).
Overall, things will keep as now, with thieves ruling roaming and mesmer also being a very good option. And don’t know why people don’t use engis more. Great mobility, insane survivability, really good AoE…
@EmeriteAngel seen that video. Amazing necro that knows who to use its skills to teleport. And in 9:40 one of he’s teammates cries about being CC and condi to the death, well thats what that necro soes XD
watch this and tell me again that necros are not mobile
He is sacrificing 2 utilities slots for juking. Wurm cast time is long for a “get out of problem” skill, like thief/ele/mesmer teleports.
And still, any class but mesmer can chase and catch you with a common roamer build. If only one is chasing you there is no problem, the problem is when 3 o 4 roamers are chasing you. See how I said roamer and not zerg. Not always a zerg chase 1 person, only few chase roamers, and that few are always uplevels or ppl with awful builds who ends alone chasing that necro group for a “free bag”. Roamers groups are a lot more dangerous than zerg’s pugs.
And the video isn’t at real speed. That helps with the illusion of “speed”.
He and his group are playing great. But is not the mobility that we are discussing here.
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