Guild Wars 2

I would like to tell you that no more new WvW map for the upcoming expansions.
Does it sounds familiar?
No more WvW tournament as its impact to the WvW population.
You fools, don’t expect there will be a new WvW map in the next expansion.

Assuming that we’re getting any thing significant in the first place. We may as well turn out to be buying kitten trait line expansion.

Edit: ahah ahaha I can’t believe this forum censors “a …. $50” (without the dots)

I keep my expectations low. This way, I am always surprised.

How much of the population drop was really related to DBL though versus the unbalancing effects of the new elite specs and the resulting OP boonsharing meta that was also introduced with HoT?

No more new elite specs and class balancing would fix all the problem.

Sylvyn.4750:

How much of the population drop was really related to DBL though versus the unbalancing effects of the new elite specs and the resulting OP boonsharing meta that was also introduced with HoT?

Well considering when people talk about HoT almost killing WvW, the talking point is always the maps rather than the power creep.

Totally due to the map!

Lahmia.2193:

Sylvyn.4750:

How much of the population drop was really related to DBL though versus the unbalancing effects of the new elite specs and the resulting OP boonsharing meta that was also introduced with HoT?

Well considering when people talk about HoT almost killing WvW, the talking point is always the maps rather than the power creep.

Sure the DBL map was bad, but at least you could go to EBG.
It was the sum of the parts that finally did it for most.

PvE grind to unlock elite specializations, for some of us that was nine times.
PvE grind for the entire guild to get your WvW upgrades unlocked, when you should have at least started with what you had unlocked prior to HoT.
And when you did get to play WvW it was the Pirate Ship Meta.

I remember pre reset where you’d look over at each BL portal and see one or two guilds per portal. EBG was mostly empty. After HoT it was mostly EBG.

Sylvyn.4750:

How much of the population drop was really related to DBL though versus the unbalancing effects of the new elite specs and the resulting OP boonsharing meta that was also introduced with HoT?

I stopped playing wvw for months because of the desert bls. Still sucks that at least one server has to deal with it every match.

Swamurabi.7890:

Lahmia.2193:

Sylvyn.4750:

How much of the population drop was really related to DBL though versus the unbalancing effects of the new elite specs and the resulting OP boonsharing meta that was also introduced with HoT?

Well considering when people talk about HoT almost killing WvW, the talking point is always the maps rather than the power creep.

Sure the DBL map was bad, but at least you could go to EBG.
It was the sum of the parts that finally did it for most.

PvE grind to unlock elite specializations, for some of us that was nine times.
PvE grind for the entire guild to get your WvW upgrades unlocked, when you should have at least started with what you had unlocked prior to HoT.
And when you did get to play WvW it was the Pirate Ship Meta.

I remember pre reset where you’d look over at each BL portal and see one or two guilds per portal. EBG was mostly empty. After HoT it was mostly EBG.

This. DBL was the straw that broke the camel’s back for most small groups, since small-scale got ruined in every way in regards to combat, and then the maps were also just made crap-tastic, too.

The biggest drives for quitting were elites and new armors/consumables that required huge farming as well as the sheer cost of guild halls. Most WvW players are broke as it is.

Until they fix professions/elites, there is zero hope for the format, or in sPvP. It’s not fun to play even while disregarding all the flaws with WvW as it is.

^Didn’t the ESL players also say the only reason they still played was the money, and that combat wasn’t fun anymore because of all the overpowered crap from HoT? This isnt just a map issue. It affected spvp as well. And Anet thinks its a success because RAIDS! slowly claps congrats Anet, you killed off 2 of your gamemodes to stroke the kittens of 1% of the PvE population. Huge success!

Nikkinella.8254:

^Didn’t the ESL players also say the only reason they still played was the money, and that combat wasn’t fun anymore because of all the overpowered crap from HoT? This isnt just a map issue. It affected spvp as well. And Anet thinks its a success because RAIDS! slowly claps congrats Anet, you killed off 2 of your gamemodes to stroke the kittens of 1% of the PvE population. Huge success!

Yes. The forum posts on the subject coming from the pro players themselves were also deleted and the users infracted for a period of time.

With ESL out of the equation nobody is taking PvP here in any amount seriously. It’s not fun, and these players will move and largely have moved to other games.

Until ANet recognizes their game is just not fun to play outside of smashing mobs, the PvP scene (including WvW) will keep decaying rapidly.

That’s just the be-all-end-all.

DeceiverX.8361:

Nikkinella.8254:

^Didn’t the ESL players also say the only reason they still played was the money, and that combat wasn’t fun anymore because of all the overpowered crap from HoT? This isnt just a map issue. It affected spvp as well. And Anet thinks its a success because RAIDS! slowly claps congrats Anet, you killed off 2 of your gamemodes to stroke the kittens of 1% of the PvE population. Huge success!

Yes. The forum posts on the subject coming from the pro players themselves were also deleted and the users infracted for a period of time.

With ESL out of the equation nobody is taking PvP here in any amount seriously. It’s not fun, and these players will move and largely have moved to other games.

Until ANet recognizes their game is just not fun to play outside of smashing mobs, the PvP scene (including WvW) will keep decaying rapidly.

That’s just the be-all-end-all.

Unfortunately they’re stubborn and refuse to separate pve balance from wvw and spvp. They balance entirely around raids now, even a child could see that balancing around pve would throw off balance in pvp. So there’s zero logic in keeping all 3 modes the same. They just cant accept they fact that they were wrong and that all 3 modes need separate balance.

Any game that has successful pvp ALWAYS has separate skill balance from pve. Its just common sense that you would have to do this as players don’t have the same stats as mobs. Whats ok in pve is usually overpowered in pvp. I can’t think of a single mmo i’ve played, that actually had good pvp, besides this one that doesnt have separate skill balance.

Please dont spread “unfounded claims”!

It’s not that they needed to split balance. I think doing so typically creates a more complex and more difficult-to-maintain game-state and confuses a lot of players with mixed results from certain expectations when learning the game in PvE.

They just needed to make more centrally-oriented decisions on what would work for design. The instant-no-tell CC/burst and so on shouldn’t exist even for PvE reasons. Even though it may be permissible, it doesn’t make the design any less bad.

I really wish people would discover that this game isn’t a Open-world PvP/WvW MMO and understand that PvE and all related content is the main staple/focus of it’s developing company, and not interject hyperbole and spread unfounded information/opinions as, “Facts”. WvW is an amazing part of the game, and is no where as bad as people go out of their way to say it is.

We need another map.

Alpine is blob festival.

If you do not like the DBL do not play in that map.

With the new map, Anet will not make the same mistake, there will be the Alpine, the Desert and the New Map at the same time.

Anet has learned from the DBL.

While DBL had some issues, I don’t think it got released with all that was intended in fact I think they cut out a key feature of that map that originally was intended. It would of made sense to make it a gliding map, and introduce aerial combat there.

It would of been a highly popular map then. Imagine flying around with your whole squad.

Anyhow regardless, I am not convinced that we will see anymore changes to any maps as people are pretty stuck in their ways. As much as people claim they are tired of Alpine borderlands, they lose thier minds anytime anything new is introduced.

Nikkinella.8254:

Any game that has successful pvp ALWAYS has separate skill balance from pve. Its just common sense that you would have to do this as players don’t have the same stats as mobs. Whats ok in pve is usually overpowered in pvp. I can’t think of a single mmo i’ve played, that actually had good pvp, besides this one that doesnt have separate skill balance.

Successful PvP games either have no PvE or focus entirely around PvP (and even then focus around one aspect of PvP, not things as vastly different as WvW & 5 man conquest) and virtually ignore PvE, separate skill balance doesn’t address most of the balance issues which are more fundamental than changing numbers, slightly altering an effect, etc.

Nightshade.2570:

While DBL had some issues, I don’t think it got released with all that was intended in fact I think they cut out a key feature of that map that originally was intended. It would of made sense to make it a gliding map, and introduce aerial combat there.

It would of been a highly popular map then. Imagine flying around with your whole squad.

Just because the map would be better with gliding doesn’t mean it was intended to have it. The point of DBL was to break up bigger groups in hopes of having more smaller groups running around, implementing gliding in there would have broken that concept to pieces. They had a ton of obstacles in place which only work if you’re on the ground, and shrines to help you get through those obstacles.

Also gliding is a HoT feature, since wvw is open to all account types, there would be players who don’t have access to it and would screw up a multitude of things. While it might be a cool thing to do in wvw, it would start coming down to which server had more access to gliders, and the separation between account types would be bigger with elite specs already wedged in there.

DBL came out as they intended, just not what players wanted, and they didn’t react fast enough with changes.

vier.1327:

We need another map.
If you do not like the DBL do not play in that map.

With the new map, Anet will not make the same mistake, there will be the Alpine, the Desert and the New Map at the same time.

Anet has learned from the DBL.

They already don’t play DBL if they don’t like it, it has the lowest activity.
Anet made Eotm and then DBL, and you think they learned their lesson?

cpchow.7416:

No more new elite specs and class balancing would fix all the problem.

Too bad there’s more elite specs coming huh.

Desert BL is just one of many reasons for the WvW player dropoff.

HoT added effectively pay-to-“win” as you either pay for HoT elite specs (power creep) or you don’t win.

You can still play with HoT but you aren’t going to enjoy it when you are getting beat by HoT specs non-stop. Also remember that HoT vendors (runes, sigils, etc.) didn’t become immediately available when HoT was released either so there was a very prolonged period (giving many players time to leave) before some equivalency started to appear between PvE and WvW.

Hopefully, ANet has learned their lesson that the next expansion needs to have WvW equivalent rewards built in at launch or you are going to see the same devastating exodus as PvE rewards bleeds into player versus player environment creating haves versus have nots.

Artaz.3819:

Desert BL is just one of many reasons for the WvW player dropoff.

HoT added effectively pay-to-“win” as you either pay for HoT elite specs (power creep) or you don’t win.

You can still play with HoT but you aren’t going to enjoy it when you are getting beat by HoT specs non-stop. Also remember that HoT vendors (runes, sigils, etc.) didn’t become immediately available when HoT was released either so there was a very prolonged period (giving many players time to leave) before some equivalency started to appear between PvE and WvW.

Hopefully, ANet has learned their lesson that the next expansion needs to have WvW equivalent rewards built in at launch or you are going to see the same devastating exodus as PvE rewards bleeds into player versus player environment creating haves versus have nots.

Elite specs are not, insta-win. Expansions are a common thing with MMO genre games, and ofcoarse they have content that is exclusive to them, they need selling points after all.

vier.1327:

We need another map.

Alpine is blob festival.

If you do not like the DBL do not play in that map.

With the new map, Anet will not make the same mistake, there will be the Alpine, the Desert and the New Map at the same time.

Anet has learned from the DBL.

Given the matchups lately, it’s looking like what they’ve “learned” is that they hate the game mode and just want the players to suffer. They’re either trying to kill off all interest in the game mode, or so negligent that they may as well be.

Odokuro.5049:

Artaz.3819:

Desert BL is just one of many reasons for the WvW player dropoff.

HoT added effectively pay-to-“win” as you either pay for HoT elite specs (power creep) or you don’t win.

You can still play with HoT but you aren’t going to enjoy it when you are getting beat by HoT specs non-stop. Also remember that HoT vendors (runes, sigils, etc.) didn’t become immediately available when HoT was released either so there was a very prolonged period (giving many players time to leave) before some equivalency started to appear between PvE and WvW.

Hopefully, ANet has learned their lesson that the next expansion needs to have WvW equivalent rewards built in at launch or you are going to see the same devastating exodus as PvE rewards bleeds into player versus player environment creating haves versus have nots.

Elite specs are not, insta-win. Expansions are a common thing with MMO genre games, and ofcoarse they have content that is exclusive to them, they need selling points after all.

Aside from a very few select cheesy builds, they border-line on power equivocal to what most P2W games offer.

The topic has been discussed to death; by far and large, the majority of the WvW community agrees the expansion did way more damage than good.

And you can still make things work and work well in PvE and have them be well-designed for PvP. ANet has failed on the latter is the issue. Doesn’t matter how you tweak coefficients etc.

And the game was marketed as being inclusive to all styles and preferences of play, not with an emphasis on PvE, particularly when it comes to design and balance. ANet’s original intentions were the opposite. Now, not so much.

I think wvw is already declining the moment they start to change the stability, conditions and food. Anet stupid cycle of shaking the meta or was that Colin’s words?

DeceiverX.8361:

Odokuro.5049:

Artaz.3819:

Desert BL is just one of many reasons for the WvW player dropoff.

HoT added effectively pay-to-“win” as you either pay for HoT elite specs (power creep) or you don’t win.

You can still play with HoT but you aren’t going to enjoy it when you are getting beat by HoT specs non-stop. Also remember that HoT vendors (runes, sigils, etc.) didn’t become immediately available when HoT was released either so there was a very prolonged period (giving many players time to leave) before some equivalency started to appear between PvE and WvW.

Hopefully, ANet has learned their lesson that the next expansion needs to have WvW equivalent rewards built in at launch or you are going to see the same devastating exodus as PvE rewards bleeds into player versus player environment creating haves versus have nots.

Elite specs are not, insta-win. Expansions are a common thing with MMO genre games, and ofcoarse they have content that is exclusive to them, they need selling points after all.

Aside from a very few select cheesy builds, they border-line on power equivocal to what most P2W games offer.

The topic has been discussed to death; by far and large, the majority of the WvW community agrees the expansion did way more damage than good.

And you can still make things work and work well in PvE and have them be well-designed for PvP. ANet has failed on the latter is the issue. Doesn’t matter how you tweak coefficients etc.

And the game was marketed as being inclusive to all styles and preferences of play, not with an emphasis on PvE, particularly when it comes to design and balance. ANet’s original intentions were the opposite. Now, not so much.

The majority? These forums would be flooded on the daily with thousands of posts if it was the, “majority”, what it is, are the vocal minority of the WvW community that tends to find fault and insert hyperbole into most if not everything they say/think about WvW/ANet.

Yeah I don’t, “like” the desert borderlands, but that doesn’t mean, that I hate them either, and certainly doesn’t mean, “ANet broke WvW”, and the elite specs, keyword being, “ELITE”, yeah they’re going to be pretty darn strong, but just because someone is running one, doesn’t mean they run unopposed in WvW/sPvP, many vanilla builds are still successful in content. core or vanilla builds are looked down on or thought as useless because of how perpetuated the, “meta” is, like with any game, if a thought is ingrained into the community over and over, in verious ways such as twitch/youtube and other fan sites, it runs unopposed.

This is one of the reasons why many people are scared to run, “off-meta” builds, because the community or atleast the vocal one, is SO saturated with, “one mindset”, that you have no real diversity in-game.

But to get back on topic, WvW needs work yes it does, is it in the dire crippling anguish state that people say, not really, but it could use a face lift, and some reassurance from a dev responding/posting once in a while to ease the tension.

Considering the best players in the ESL and most of the now-quit skill groups disagree, your credentials here are not too good.

Elite specs were never meant to e stronger than core. ANet’s own words, not mine, or anyone else’s. They failed that blatantly.

Before HoT, WvW was the most diverse format in the game. By absolute miles. “Trash-tier” builds were still usable if not competitive. Now you severely kitten yourself playing core on most professions.

The people who are left are playing in the delusion the game is okay. The population dropoff, which most most quitting players cite to unfun combat, has been real and only guised by linkings.

I doubt most still playing think the mode is OK.

Some of us are just trying to get what fun we still can out of it.