Guild Wars 2

I really, really like the idea of WvW servers that are independent of the PVE server.

duckideva.6358:

I really, really like the idea of WvW servers that are independent of the PVE server.

Same here.

I also think they should give better/cooler stuff for WvW.

Like maybe getting Tokens for Towers, Keeps, Camps, and you trade those in for Armor/Weapon skins (like Dungeon Tokens)

Each armor having it’s own distinct design so players could spot if someone was in total Exotic Keep Armor, or Complete Exotic Tower gear, etc, etc.

Have it so Camp Tokens only gave Low level armors, not exotics.

Then have a Castle Tokens that you could trade in for back Slots, like Wahammer Banner Poles and the like.

I mean really, there is a lot they can do with the WvW dynamic, making it it’s own game, as opposed to the annexed off PvE game that it is right now.

Yeah I thought they were going to do a lot but we will have to wait and see when the march update comes out. Hope they give us some cool updates since most of the cool stuff is geared towards PvE.

Colin: I would prefer we do it more, you know, story-driven I think it’s more compelling and I think that’s more where we are headed. I’m curious actually, that’s really something that we’re walking down that path now. Is that compelling to your guys? I mean, take everything that happened in January, and condense it down to say, a weeks worth of content and then the next week there’s more story that builds on that. Is that something that would interest you guys?

Absolutely. It’s really good.

Colin: Is there anyone here who doesn’t like this idea?

Well, it doesn’t affect those who do WvW much.

Colin: I think that’s fair. It’s really not intended for the WvW specific player.

http://dragonseason.com/Front/tabid/124/EntryId/211/Lunch-with-Colin-Johanson-Part-II.aspx

ANet is not focused on WvW, don’t expect much from the update.

I am skeptical of the new updates they are going to have…will probably just be another grind fest. They tried to make it sound like they were doing major changes a couple of months ago.

I don’t understand the complaints you guys have re: population. I’ve been in wvw many times with the outmanned buff on so it flows both ways. At the same time if you’re really gonna complain about skill then you guys should pay attention to what’s happening. 5 of us in a tower can hold of ET zergs without any problems (FC seems more organized and harder to deal with at times) and all we need to do is get another 7-10 people to jump in the middle of your 15+ zerg outside the tower and your entire attack falls apart. The people taking all your supply camps are usually groups or 3-4 running around looking for a fight. So if you dont have a “zerg” then group up and take camps.. at least you wont have such a deficit during your server’s downtime. As far as night capping goes – if we night cap then you guys day cap. No server is on zerging 24/7. You’re implying that while ET has their players on en masse then sorrows furnance doesnt stand a chance until ET’s zerg goes to sleep. That’s a little silly even for the wildest stretch of imagination.

Just two nights ago ET had this zerg running around, and was easily 15+ about 6-7 guys from king and another 5 from tlc came in and roflstomped everyone. You jokers can have twice the numbers.. it wont make a difference. And I’m not surprised no one on your servers play wvw. They’re just tired of being stomped all day long. What you’re essentially asking for here is not balance but a handicap. You guys should go watch some youtube videos from the t1 and t2 guys and learn a few things.

I’ll even tell you one very important and useful tactic:

Stacking. When you stack – aoe dmg only hits 5 people if you have a group of 10+ nicely stacked they dont all take dmg – while aoe heals heal everyone around you irrespective of numbers. Something as small as this can make a big difference. Also – I have never seen ET or even FC portal bomb with golems or people – and if you guys expect to face t7 and higher without doing that and succeeding then you’re really not thinking right.

Psychotic EGG.1376:

This would then fix big servers just kitten us little guys. And would then mix up who you are against from time to time as the numbers flux.

If you are either in FC, then you know what I mean, or are on another server in the same boat, like Eredon Terrace. Make a comment stand up. Get Arenanet to fix this.

No offense but in the history 1 week matches FC has only won 2 matches out of 22 matches. The 1 week match ups were matched up based on the 24 hours matches which had FC ranked low also. Which means FC lost a lot of 24 hour matches against many different servers.

Several weeks ago SF used to be a decent match up for you balance wise you even beat them in a close match. Since then you have been getting beat worse and worse. Most likely because losses are causing people to not WvW or transfer servers.

ET a server that fell from the top getting destroyed week after week all the way down due to losing masses of players is now even beating FC.

Basically there isn’t a server that would be a good match for you anymore. You have been beat time and time again by many different servers and by servers that have been destroyed by the other competition. It wouldn’t matter who you go up against at this point. The result will be the same.

Last week FC never even managed over 155 PTT the entire week. If you can’t get more then 155 against SF and ET then you wouldn’t like to see how ugly it will be against other servers.

Unfortunately there is nothing ANet can do to fix your problem. There is always going to be a worst server and the sad truth is it’s FC right now. Doesn’t mean it always will be but for now it is. There isn’t going to be a good match because there is no equal to you ATM. Regardless if it’s numbers, skill, luck…whatever you want to blame it on. The bottom ranked servers are beating you so there is no one else lower to put you against.

A Quick look at match history shows ET who is a close matchup for FC got domianted in T7.
http://mos.millenium.org/servers/view/30/#history

Orikx.9671:

A Quick look at match history shows ET who is a close matchup for FC got domianted in T7.
http://mos.millenium.org/servers/view/30/#history

Now you just wait a minute.

While I am sure everyone loves pointless links that do not prove anything, Lets look at something a bit more apt to the situation, shall we.

Week 52

Kaineng – 501
Ferg – 48
Eredon – 38

This was the absolute worst they had done against Kaineng as well, this was after many weeks of loosing.

The very next Next Week:
Week 1

Lets see how well Tier 7 fairs against Kaineng
Tier – 7
Kaineng – 548
GoM – 36
HoD – 26

Tier – 8
Sorrows – 211
Ferg – 215
Eredon – 189

What do we see. Ok. Well Tier 7, while they lost horribly against Kaineng (No one is surprised) the real issue here, is they did WORSE then T8 Did against Kaineng at T8’s worst score.

No, look at that, the top two T7 worlds did worse on their opening fight (which is normally when a world does it’s best) then the bottom two T8 worlds did on their worst fight (after losing for 3 weeks straight) .. oh.. and Sorrows, which had been a mostly 2nd place World in T7, Oh yah. They lost too to a T8 world, Ferg in fact.

So, pretty much the week Kaineng moved out of T8, everyone in T7 lost their match to a T8 world.

So spare me any nonsense that T8 does not have fight in them.

katz.8376:

SF got an influx of players after they dropped to tier 8. but now they’re stuck here… makes me LOL when you guys keep saying “omg you losers would get ROFLSTOMPED if anyone else dropped to that tier with you!!!!!1!!1one!!” seriously. if we got paired up with a server with similar numbers, it would be a much more even match, like the first two matches when SF FIRST dropped to tier 8.

learn how screwed up glicko is before you say stuff like that, please. glicko is a hot mess, and we’re stuck with it.

who would i want to face? at this point, ANYONE ELSE. that about cover it for ya?

There is no one with a lower pop.

Ungood.3054:

Week 52

Kaineng – 501
Ferg – 48
Eredon – 38

This was the absolute worst they had done against Kaineng as well, this was after many weeks of loosing.

The very next Next Week:
Week 1

Lets see how well Tier 7 fairs against Kaineng
Tier – 7
Kaineng – 548
GoM – 36
HoD – 26

Tier – 8
Sorrows – 211
Ferg – 215
Eredon – 189

What do we see. Ok. Well Tier 7, while they lost horribly against Kaineng (No one is surprised) the real issue here, is they did WORSE then T8 Did against Kaineng at T8’s worst score.

No, look at that, the top two T7 worlds did worse on their opening fight (which is normally when a world does it’s best) then the bottom two T8 worlds did on their worst fight (after losing for 3 weeks straight) .. oh.. and Sorrows, which had been a mostly 2nd place World in T7, Oh yah. They lost too to a T8 world, Ferg in fact.

So, pretty much the week Kaineng moved out of T8, everyone in T7 lost their match to a T8 world.

So spare me any nonsense that T8 does not have fight in them.

Incoming wall of text.
TL:DR – ANet can’t help FC, FC needs to help FC.

LOL, you are using Kaineng moving out of T8 and domianting T7 as an example that T8 has fight? Do realize they moved up because of War Machine, and whoever else transfering there and stacking the server? They are in T2 now and doing very well. You think FC would stand a chance against BG?
You can’t use any of the Kaineng fights(after they got stacked) as a way of comparing servers. When matches are that unbalanced both sides start coasting. Players go do PvE that they’d never normally do during a close match. They level alts or take lowbies into WvW.
Saying one server got destroyed less by Kaineng means they are better is like saying one mouse lasted 5 seconds against the rattle snake while the other only lasted 4 so the 5 second one is clearly stronger. The snake could have been slightly more full then normal and taking it’s time or could have choked on the tail.

If you look at the match history ET and FC have consistently performed very similarly. SF has gradually done better and better each week while ET and FC stay very close in points.
Which is more likely to be happening?
1) SF has been gradually getting more and more WvW transfers to T8 server over the course of 8 weeks. Keeping in mind they are Very High pop so people would have to pay approximately 30 gold to transfer there for the last 4 weeks.
2) ET and FC WvW players are gradually losing interest in WvW from getting beat week after week. So they either play less or switch servers. We’ve seen this happen time and time again on multiple servers. Look at the servers that have fallen from T1 or 2 way down the ladder because people got tired of losing and transferred off. ET, IoJ, SBI are perfect examples.

Might there be a server out there that you are a match for in points that just hasn’t fallen all the way down yet after imploding? Yes that is possible. More likely though is you are just the last place server so the people that want to WvW are going somewhere they can have fun because FC isn’t going to be it. No amount of changes to the system ANet does is going to make it “fair” for FC and spending time trying to balance the WvW around 1 server that it can’t help isn’t a smart use of resources.

Is the WvW points system great? No, far from it. You could argue it’s not even good. The point system isn’t whats hurting FC though. It’s the fact that it’s just not a WvW server for whatever reason. All games have servers that have more PvE players or more PvP players. Like minded people go to where other like minded people are. People who want great PvP tend to not go to the last place server.
So unless some of guilds decides they want to try to elevate a server from last to first, which isn’t likely now with paid transfers, get used to the fact that most of your matches are going to be a loss.

Really though at that level 1 decent sized, organized guild can make a huge impact. So you could also do some recruiting, get some practice. Maybe look to the T1 and 2 servers for advice on strats you may not have thought of and you could possibly turn the tide.
We saw this with War Machine couple times. They would take a week off to practice and transfer to Kaineng mid week. The match would go from a blowout to very close and then they’d transfer back off. and Kaineng would get blown out again.
Stop blaming ANet for you being last place though. There is always going to be a last place and usually it’s going to be by a big margin in a game like this. 3 faction battles help with that a little but they don’t fix it entirely.

katz.8376:

who would i want to face? at this point, ANYONE ELSE. that about cover it for ya?

Remember what Kaineng did score wise before they left? They are a T2 server. Arguably right now there are 1 maybe 2(BG after recent transfers) T1 servers and 3 maybe 4 T2 servers.
“ANYONE ELSE” – You think SF is on par with JQ/BG/SoS/SoR/Kain/TC? Or for that matter even T3 servers who have some solid guilds.
If SF was so strong they would sling shot out of T8 just like Kain did. Glicko is horrible but all it takes is a complete blowout or two to jump a tier.

Orikx.9671:

Glicko is horrible but all it takes is a complete blowout or two to jump a tier.

Lol…
http://mos.millenium.org/matchups/history/22#NA
http://mos.millenium.org/matchups/history/21#NA
http://mos.millenium.org/matchups/history/20#NA
http://mos.millenium.org/matchups/history/19#NA

Yes, they haven’t been as extreme, but the consistency and similar history in the past would prove your case wrong. A blowout will not improve your score if your previous score was also a large margin. That’s how Glicko2 works.

Orikx.9671:

Do realize they moved up because of War Machine, and whoever else transfering there and stacking the server? They are in T2 now and doing very well. You think FC would stand a chance against BG?

I am well aware of that, and iirc War Machine joined them before they left T8, In fact, you can see a very distinct and definitive jump Kaineng’s numbers between week 49 and 50, which was before they left T8.

So yes. I can use their numbers from T8 to T2, and compare each of the opponents they fought and get a fairly apt reading.

Orikx.9671:

LOL, you are using Kaineng moving out of T8 and domianting T7 as an example that T8 has fight?

Yes, that is exactly what I am doing.

I am showing a direct comparison on how well each tier did against the same opponent

Now if you counter to that is to say that T7 are the bigger cowards because they ran and hid at the thought of facing Kaineng as opposed T8 fighting it out with them, well, I won’t disagree, that is for GoM and HoD to defend themselves.

But, that does not change the fact that Sorrows, a T7 (and sometimes placing 2nd) lost to Ferg when they first moved down, That means, at the time, FC was comparable to a T7 world, after being demoralized by Kaineng.

If you look at the match history ET and FC have consistently performed very similarly. SF has gradually done better and better each week while ET and FC stay very close in points.

Nope. You can see a very distinct surge in SF’s numbers between week 2 where they were neck and neck with FC, and then in week 3 where they jumped ahead. There was nothing “progressive” about it.

Anyway. No offence to you, but since you can’t affect the outcome of any this, I don’t see what further discussion will yield. As I see, we will just be blowing words at each other for nothing.

Happy hunting and I hope you are at least happy in the tier you are in.

At some point I imagine ANet will merge servers and remove an entire tier. When, who knows. But it’s inevitable.

Ungood.3054:

Orikx.9671:

Do realize they moved up because of War Machine, and whoever else transfering there and stacking the server? They are in T2 now and doing very well. You think FC would stand a chance against BG?

I am well aware of that, and iirc War Machine joined them before they left T8, In fact, you can see a very distinct and definitive jump Kaineng’s numbers between week 49 and 50, which was before they left T8.

So yes. I can use their numbers from T8 to T2, and compare each of the opponents they fought and get a fairly apt reading.

Orikx.9671:

LOL, you are using Kaineng moving out of T8 and domianting T7 as an example that T8 has fight?

Yes, that is exactly what I am doing.

I am showing a direct comparison on how well each tier did against the same opponent

Now if you counter to that is to say that T7 are the bigger cowards because they ran and hid at the thought of facing Kaineng as opposed T8 fighting it out with them, well, I won’t disagree, that is for GoM and HoD to defend themselves.

But, that does not change the fact that Sorrows, a T7 (and sometimes placing 2nd) lost to Ferg when they first moved down, That means, at the time, FC was comparable to a T7 world, after being demoralized by Kaineng.

I know my first post was way to long so you probably missed it so i will try to do it in not so many words.

Obviously I know they were in T8 if I am telling you you can’t use the T8 and T7 beatings Kaineng put down as a comparison.

You can’t use Kaineng destroying servers as a comparison for how strong servers are. It has nothing to do with T7 being bigger cowards. I clearly said both sides go into cruise mode when the unbalance is that big. Servers dominating take a break or don’t go as hard. So one week they might have started costing Saturday and another week started coasting Sunday.
When the unbalance is that huge that 10K means nothing. 10K is the difference between 59 points/hour, not per tick but per hour. That can be accounted for by taking 1 camp per tick and killing a few yaks. 2 motivated people can split up and easily go and flip a camp right before the tick and then kill a yak and account for that. When they are ticking 695 they aren’t defending camps.
Since my snake analogy didn’t see to sink in lets try this.

You kill 2 people in a fight. You drop a 500lb bomb on both of them. Just because you are able to find a few more pieces of one of them doesn’t make that person stronger.

You are correct though. There is nothing either of us can do about it so it doesn’t really matter how much we debate it. Hopefully the WvW will bring some interesting/exciting changes in March.
Until then all you can do is enjoy the fights you are in and not worry about the score. You will notice even in T1 it’s unbalanced and we have no chance of winning because of coverage gaps. I have a blast fighting while I am on though and don’t worry about the points.

I’m not sure what size of zergs SF is able to field but if you were on ET back when they were in T1 you should know an organized force of 5-10 can easily wipe 20 people. Get some guildies, build your group to compliment each other and go stick it to some SF folks and forget about the score.

Edit: I didn’t do a very good job of keeping ti short, lol.

They won’t merge servers as long as their are servers with queues…

The only logical response is to do something to try to encourage transfers from overpopulated servers to underpopulated ones.

Server merges is the response when ALL the servers are at average population or underpopulated….

Bring on the cheap/free transfers to a lower tier server….!

SF outnumbers ET/FC pretty heavily during daytime and primetime at least.

That being said Orikx has a good point, when I am roaming borderlands with my guildies, I hardly ever see well co-ordinated groups of 5-10~ ish. It’s either single players, or zergs.

I did run into a 5 man group yesterday, it was a rare sight, but they weren’t very co-ordinated, trolled them around in circles with my Ele, while my guildies picked the stragglers that fell behind off.

I would like to point out something, for those that think SF was T7, and that they always had the ability, and that is why they are winning right now.
Notice
Week 1
SF – 211
FC – 215
ET – 189

This was when SF fight came down, fresh from a 3 week stay in T7, notice this is a very tight match up against T8 and they even lose by a slight 10K points.

Week 2
SF- – 227
FC – 212
ET – 147

Again, SF and FC are still very evenly matched. only a 10K disparity at this point. ET seems to have taken the week off lol.

Week 3 – (Note, this week ended Jan 26)
SF – 254
FC – 179
ET- 167

Right there you can see a total change in SF’s game plan, from a 10K disparity the last 2 weeks, to complete surge of an 80K lead. At this point SF gained the means to vastly increase their coverage.

Big point to note, this week ended Jan 26, just 2 days before the end of Free Transfers.

Week 4: (Free Transfers end this week)
SF – 309
FC – 150
ET – 136

Wow. Look at that, from 10K variance, to 80K surge to a 150K blowout.

Their Final Surge was Week 5 where they took a 200+ Control of the map, and have since been hovering.

There was nothing progressive about this, this was purely a surge in their coverage that allowed them to take that kind of control of the board, control they did not have the first 2 weeks of the match up, coincidentally the Surges, coinciding with with the ending of Free Transfers.

It was only partially Free Transfers, the other part was Wintersday ending and the PvE community getting back into WvW. No one is saying we didn’t deserve to initially be in T8, but we have been slaughtering them for quite a while now since we regathered.

The fact that we are destroying them as much as we are with a rating drop is significant to how detrimental the scoring system is.

Orikx.9671:

I know my first post was way to long so you probably missed it so i will try to do it in not so many words.

No, I caught what you said and I disagree with you . In that vein, you have not given me a single reason to agree with you, it is that simple.

Now, I am not trying to be rude here, but the number of words you use will not have any bearing on if your point is valid, and it’s not, because, simply put, you do not understand the situation in T8.

Yes. I am sure, Sanctum Rail had a blast destroying T2, for the grand total of 2 weeks till it moved to T1, where it now fits nicely.

Now, Imagine if Sanctum Rail was still in T2, for going on 8 weeks, still winning by 200+K points for the last 4 weeks in a row, but not allowed to move to T1 where it more then likely belonged, because the 3 people in T1 were locked in (or were not doing bad enough to move to T2)

Do you really think you would even entertain someone from T1 saying no matter how much you win you don’t belong in T1, and tell the other people in T2 that that they would just get soooooooo destroyed by whoever took your place. Don’t make me laugh.

The reality is, Blackgate is fitting better into T2 then Sanctum Rail did, that is for sure, and that is what we want in T8. So spare me any line like how we don’t deserve it.

Altho. I had a similar discussion with someone from Tarnished Coast, they gave me a line how they loved losing and were better fiber then T8, well, I’m patient (been in ET willingly for the last 50 days, still new, just started 50 days ago) and I’ll see how they like loosing for the next several weeks, because, well, it looks like BG is lined up to be in T2 for a LONG time, and it looks like they are going to stomping TC for a LONG time as well. We will see how it goes, the fates might be Kind to TC and let them drop to T3, as opposed to being brutally stomped week in and week out, a Kindness that T8 will never see, but I doubt anyone outside T8 really understands that.

Anyway, good day sir.

I hope you enjoy your tier, 2nd place is quite lofty. Congrats on your position.

In the end, the real answer here lies with Anet, not us.

pulsecodesgnl.3470:

It was only partially Free Transfers, the other part was Wintersday ending and the PvE community getting back into WvW. No one is saying we didn’t deserve to initially be in T8, but we have been slaughtering them for quite a while now since we regathered.

The fact that we are destroying them as much as we are with a rating drop is significant to how detrimental the scoring system is.

I am sure the end of Free Transfers had some people commit to making the move and being SF full time, where before they may have only stopped in from time to time.

As for anything else, you would know your population better then I would, and, beyond seeing definitive spikes, which can only be caused by coverage increase, I can only speculate. For all I know, it could be the same 40 – 60 people taking a lot of no-doze lol

Ungood.3054:

No, I caught what you said and I disagree with you and you have not given me a single reason to agree with you, it is that simple.

Now, not to be rude, but the number of words you use will not have any bearing on if your point is correct, because, simply put, you do not understand the situation in T8.

The point I made and is still 100% accurate no matter how much you choose to disbelieve is that you can’t judge server value based on who got destroyed less by Kain. Which is what you are trying to do. Kain destroyed us by 450K and destroyed T7 by 500K so we are better. That makes no sense at all.
The margins are so huge and the points you score are so little that literally 1 person killing yaks all week can make up for that point difference of 10K that you scored.
You are stronger because you could potentially have one person with more free time then some of the T7 servers. /rollseyes

Yes. I am sure, Sanctum Rail I am sure had a blast destroying T2, for the grand total of 2 weeks it had to, till it moved to T1, where it fits nicely. Now, Imagine if Sanctum Rail was still in T2, for going on 8 weeks, still winning by 200K point for the last 4 weeks, but not allowed to move to T1 where it belonged, because the 3 people in T1 were locked in.

Do you really think you would even entertain someone from T1 saying no matter how much you win you don’t belong in T1, and that T2 would just get soooooooo destroyed by whoever took your place. Don’t make me laugh at such nonsense.

Blackgate is fitting better into T2 then Sanctum Rail did, that is for sure, and that is what we want in T8. So spare me any line like how we don’t deserve it.

Anyway, good day sir.

ET fell to T8 after imploding and are now consistently getting beat by a server that has only been able to get a win in T8 2 times in 22 weeks. you deserve to be in T8. If you didn’t you’d at the very least be able to beat FC on a regular basis.

Your above comparison doesn’t apply. A better comparison would be how SoR lost to SoS and then BG for 12 weeks. We couldn’t move past 5th ranked because of coverage gaps. We knew we had coverage gaps.
We didn’t say because BG had better coverage then us we deserved to be in T1. We said we need to fill our gaps before we move to T1. Which is what we did after SBI collapsed. We filled some gaps and got to move into T1. Where we are just as out manned now as we were in T2 for 12 weeks.

Honestly I agree with you Glicko is broken, but using T8 servers to prove it is stupid because last place is never going to be balanced. Trying to claim you somehow belong in T7 because your face got smashed in less by an opponent then T7 also is stupid. If you could consistently beat FC then I might entertain that but FC can’t get a 1st place finish in T8 and they do better then you most weeks.

Ungood.3054:

Altho. I had a similar discussion with someone from Tarnished Coast, they gave me a line how they loved losing and were better fiber then T8, well, I’m patient (been in ET willingly for the last 50 days, still new, just started 50 days ago) and I’ll see how they like loosing for the next several weeks, because, well, it looks like BG is lined up to be in T2 for a LONG time, and it looks like they are going to stomping TC for a LONG time as well. We will see how it goes, the fates might be Kind to TC and let them drop to T3, as opposed to being brutally stomped week in and week out, a Kindness that T8 will never see, but I doubt anyone outside T8 really understands that.

SoR faced definite loses for 12 straight weeks and is doing it again for 4 straight weeks now. Not really a good great comparison though because it’s more of a coverage gap issue at this level. So during our Primetime we aren’t massively outnumbered like you are. We just can’t compete when we are offline so I ignore the points.

I won’t begin to claim to know what it’s like for you guys because I’m not there to see how out manned you are.
I do know I have ran around during times were we are heavily outmanned and still had a blast rolling zergs.

Get organized during the times you are on and there is still plenty of fun to be had. Running with unorganized zergs will not be fun though because then size matters.

http://mos.millenium.org/matchups#NA

SF is actually set to lose rating this week, it’s still early but at best they’ll just stay at the rating they were at the start.

Wasabi Kitty.8247:

SF is actually set to lose rating this week, it’s still early but at best they’ll just stay at the rating they were at the start.

It’s always like that at the start of the week.

I am not worried, since It’s only Monday, I would predict that SF will do around a 340 – 380 again this week (With a lead of around 200 – 220), which hopefully will net them a solid 30 point gain, and move them towards getting out T8 in roughly 2 weeks.

I might help that along, and look to PvE with the Guild event thing going on. Looks kinda cool.

Orikx.9671:

Honestly I agree with you Glicko is broken

It’s not broken, it simply has too few “teams” to work with. Glicko2 is designed to build a personal profile and take innumerable people and match them up in balanced matches. It works great in this regard, which is why most PvP systems use it.

As others have pointed out, the answer is in more WvWvW Servers, a lot more, like in the 100 range more, because the fact is, the more “profiles” you ad to the system the more balanced the matches it can create.

That is where the real problem is the limit of only 24 servers, in which case, you end up lop sides matches because not everyone is going to fit neatly into 3 “team” matches, when you have so few teams, and blow outs happen, either low or high, and that is the current set up we have.

Anyway, others have noted, the solution is in more WvWvW Servers. I support that, and think it would make good for the game overall.

Maybe make WvWvW Seperate Servers, and such

Ungood.3054:

For all I know, it could be the same 40 – 60 people taking a lot of no-doze lol

Not entirely sure whether or not to be proud of it or not, but I clocked 32 hours of WvW this past weekend starting Friday night. Didn’t mean to be on that long Friday night, but we were hopelessly outmanned during an enormous Asia/Australia primetime “night cap” push by both ET and FC with plenty of opposing guild tags that I frequently see during US primetime as well.

Somehow Stonemist held but our keep didnt (wtf?) but I stayed on that night long enough to see the beginnings of US East trickling in.

Many Monster Rehabs were chugged despite still being sick :X

Look, this is exactly the problem, I am from FC, and I think we could win. We need to get our pave players into WvW. I have been doing this with my guild, with much success. Bottom line, have some pride, we don’t need the devs to baby us, we can do this

I am a member of Sorrows Furnace, but please dont let this fact take away from what I say next. We may have numbers against your server but your team does well enough with the amount you have, even if the end result(score) doesnt say so. I greatly respect each person that I battle against from your server. I show that by bowing to each person I am able to beat, which is not much compared to the amount of times people from FC have utterly stomped me and others from my server. All the problem is that its about numbers. Your team has skill, which makes the fights fun. Dont lose hope If by chance we meet on the battlefield, I hope to have a fun fight with you or anyone with you. This is just a game so think of it as such.

^^ thanks for the above post for some positive feedback. Problem is that too many have already lost hope (including me).

Now on to what I really want to say:
To the players from other tiers’ servers – please stop trolling here and make out as if T8 deserve what they get. I know that there are too many threads relating to this issue atm and hope they get merged (hopefully not with the locked thread in the suggestions section).
This does not mean that we are bickering about FC and ET being these wonderful servers that deserve to be in T7 or higher. I know we don’t. Nobody is saying we don’t deserve to be in T8.
(please read this ^ again if you still don’t get it).
What we are saying is that SF deserves to move UP. But they can’t.
(please read this ^ again if you still don’t get it).
We won’t know how we would fare against a T7 server moving down, because it won’t happen any time soon. Even if they (the server moving down) stomp us, we won’t know.
(please read this ^ again if you still don’t get it).
By SF’s own admission they had a sudden player influx AFTER the winters day event into WvW and a number of transfers prior to paid transfers, which boosted their numbers. That is why ET and FC were competitive, since we basically carried the same numbers in WvW during winters day than we did prior to winter’s day when Kain gave us the umpteenth beating to try and wriggle free of the T8 ratings black hole. Our numbers were perhaps even greater with the realization that we’re facing a new apponent…
Because FC’s and ET’s ratings dropped so low during the beating we got from DR and then Kaineng, it is affecting SF’s rating really negatively at the moment. They toy with us and can probably make all three maps green if they really put all their effort in. But they are winning comfortably without breaking a sweat. BUT they are LOOSING rating points, because FC and ET ratings are so low. Now how the heck are they going to move up if they are loosing points by winning a match??? The rating system is flawed. period.
I guarantee more FC and ET numbers will show up the moment SF is promoted (in 2015 sometime by the looks of things). That alone will make it a better match to the demoted T7 server than we have against SF now.
I feel assured that SF will NOT get stomped in T7 when they move up and get demoted back to T8 a week or two later. They are good. They have many talented players and good dedication to keep what they own if they really want to. And I reiterate that by SF’s own admission they let a few weeks WvW participation slip to be demoted to T8 and very unfortunately for them just at the time Kaineng finally burst free of the T8 dungeon. Their ratings plummeted the moment they set foot in T8 and now they can’t get out. They have very diffirent numbers in WvW now than when they first got stuck in T8.
(now please get the above statements sink in before you feel the urge to respond with some witty comment about how FC and ET deserve to be in T8 and any other T7 server who will stomp us. The argument is NOT, repeat: NOT, about how good FC or ET can possibly be against any other server, but is is ABOUT THE MESSED UP RATING SYSTEM and us being stuck with one server after the other for months on end who clearly does not belong in T8).
So who does belong in T8? Well, the loosing server in T7 of course. Easy as that. Now that free transfers are all over and done with (after we got stuck with SF’s transfer influx) we might see once and for all how we will fare against the loosing the T7. But the rating system prevents the loosing server in T7 to move down, because DR and Kain messed T8s ratings up and Anet did nothing to correct it even when they must have seen how long it we were pitted against vastly superior opponents for months and months. And no, I’m not in favour of a ratings reset.

The argument about FC and ET not portal bombing golums is not relevant. Our WvW players are flat broke. Why? We spent all our money paying for siege equipment, upgrades and repairs far more regularly than SF/DR/Kaineng does/did. On EB we are in charge of a tower for about 30 minutes before the zerg shows up and takes it back. We don’t have the numbers and therefore can’t distribute the costs over a larger population. We are doing as best we can but can only do so much with limited resources. Does that mean we should not spend money on upgrades? We should not spend money on siege? Run around nekked and duel…. heh, is that how you imagine WvW? Slap the door with your knives and sceptres. March around the fort for 30 days and 30 nights blowing you warhorns.

Very good points. I agree, the points system is flawed. It may be a numbers game but skill out-weights that time and time again. Fc and Et have skill, dont forget that. You have great, hard working players…. but from what I have seen, they like to stay in one area. For example, you have a few good players go to eternal battlegrounds but the rest stay in your home territory. Talk to your teammates and get them to change it up! Tell them to get over to where the action is greatest and take the land you want, make it harder for us to take/keep places from you. You have (I forget what they are called) your group that gets on at night and goes around to stomp anyone and everyone in their path. I have seen videos, get them to go to eternal, mess some stuff up. You kick our butts during the first few days/hours after reset, what happens after that? You guys do great, just keep doing great

But what I have been trying to say is, numbers has gotten Sorrows Furnace to where we are against Fc and Et. We have some good players but the rest are just …. sheep i guess i could call them. They follow whoever seems to know what they are doing and hack n slash where everyone else seems to be doing the same. It has gotten boring on Sf, there is no real action after the first few days. I dont mean for this to sound bad but after those few days, it seems as if Fc and Et just give up and only a select few stay on to make sure they dont drop too low. Take my previous posts, post from a Sorrows Furnace member, and show them that they need to wake up and fight us. Not as a taunt, but as equal opposing team players. I know that our three teams are tired of being behind all of the other servers, so lets work together and give everyone something to talk about. And by work together, i dont mean team up and be buddies because I know that some of Fc/Et players hate our guts, and same with Sf against you guys but still. Come on guys, lets use each other to take our ranks to new heights!

Another possible solution: different WvW maps. The super high populations (maybe after a couple of weeks of straight roflstomping) get sent to a less-defensible map. The low population server gets sent to a more easily defensible map.

Hmmm don’t think new maps are on the cards any time soon. I won’t even bargain on new WvW maps this year.
I think that during the weekend (at reset) FC and ET numbers are better represented and SF might be queuing? When the weekend is over numbers disperse and the people left with keeping the torch burning just can’t keep up with the numbers required. People playing after working hours fight back as much as they can but can’t accomplish enough to align the scores. These few hours’ of fight back is what causes SF’s rating to go down. Even if they are winning the match, they’re loosing rating.

The time zone I’m playing at just have a few FC wondering where the action is and swarming to the orange swords or trying to keep up with the commanders. As soon as it is clear that we’re involved in yet another loosing battle, people move out and do their own thing – gathering, jp, camp ninja-ing, daily achievements…. this means that an army of 10 – 15 might suddenly turn into 7 or so trying to capture a tower defended by 7 SF. Not gonna happen.

I actually laughed out loud when SF were roaming around FC BL with about 5 golums trying desperately to cause a fight of some sorts. Destroying walls with FC just standing there looking at the situation with no response.
You know that WvW is boring when you see your chat panel spammed with “SF invader sits”.

“You know that WvW is boring when you see your chat panel spammed with “SF invader sits”.”
This is exactly how we in Sf feel when Fc and Et do the same to us lol. Like a Fc zerg will come up and attack me or a small group I am with and half of their players will go sit on the hill and watch, or laugh. Then after they have killed us, they come to laugh/dance/jump on our dead bodies Kind of disrespectful but this is a battle so I cant say much and it wont be like any of our three teams will stop doing that.

For the most part ET and FC have had bigger or similar in size zergs this week. The whole population size argument is a moot point. I was in ET, I am in SF now….Its not the amount of people (saying it over and over doesn’t make it true), sure sometimes we have some big groups….But there have been many times where we have had less than 20 total people in EB, and we are all there defending a keep and its the only thing on the entire map being sieged and everything else is owned by SF….

With that being said, SF participation has dwindled in WvW, I have seen it with my own two eyes. ET and FC seem to have experienced a resurgence, be that from transfers or just recommitting to the WvW realizing that the matchup is what it is and isnt changing anytime soon….

Perhaps the worst part of the WvW scoring/tier system, is that in these stale matchups the scoring system breeds a vicious cycle. The teams fight for a while, then one seemingly takes control…Then a week goes by, then another, then another….Well the dominant team starts to build points to climb out, as the two others lose morale….Then nothing happens….Well the two losing teams are fed up, they fight back, now the score is closer, meanwhile the dominant team has become bored with the stale matchup, there’s nothing really left to do or prove….The scores now aren’t so lopsided as they were two weeks ago…But now all this has done is cause the matchup to last even longer.

I think most of us can agree that the only way SF is likely leaving, is if FC and ET totally quit WvW for a month and let the ticker tick away some ridiculous scores….And that is just not any good for anyone in the long run.

Kumu Honua.2751:

So which server would you like to face instead of the one you are facing now?

^^This^^

You guys would get an even worse beating from any other server. I doubt you guys would even be able to leave spawn with any other server.

This really sux what you guys are having to deal with but I don’t think there is really an easy solution to this. Maybe getting better servers and making it a 4 way battle??

ValeinaMordis.9058:

“You know that WvW is boring when you see your chat panel spammed with “SF invader sits”.”
This is exactly how we in Sf feel when Fc and Et do the same to us lol. Like a Fc zerg will come up and attack me or a small group I am with and half of their players will go sit on the hill and watch, or laugh. Then after they have killed us, they come to laugh/dance/jump on our dead bodies Kind of disrespectful but this is a battle so I cant say much and it wont be like any of our three teams will stop doing that.

Sorry about any FC laughing and dancing – it’s not my style and something that I complained about SF doing when they first joined the T8 abyss. I’ve not seen SF behaving that way in a long while and it certainly does not suit FC to do so. It is disrespectful and from my part I try and discourage it whenever I see it happening.

King Amadaeus.8619:

For the most part ET and FC have had bigger or similar in size zergs this week. The whole population size argument is a moot point. I was in ET, I am in SF now….Its not the amount of people (saying it over and over doesn’t make it true), sure sometimes we have some big groups….But there have been many times where we have had less than 20 total people in EB, and we are all there defending a keep and its the only thing on the entire map being sieged and everything else is owned by SF….

With that being said, SF participation has dwindled in WvW, I have seen it with my own two eyes. ET and FC seem to have experienced a resurgence, be that from transfers or just recommitting to the WvW realizing that the matchup is what it is and isnt changing anytime soon….

Perhaps the worst part of the WvW scoring/tier system, is that in these stale matchups the scoring system breeds a vicious cycle. The teams fight for a while, then one seemingly takes control…Then a week goes by, then another, then another….Well the dominant team starts to build points to climb out, as the two others lose morale….Then nothing happens….Well the two losing teams are fed up, they fight back, now the score is closer, meanwhile the dominant team has become bored with the stale matchup, there’s nothing really left to do or prove….The scores now aren’t so lopsided as they were two weeks ago…But now all this has done is cause the matchup to last even longer.

I think most of us can agree that the only way SF is likely leaving, is if FC and ET totally quit WvW for a month and let the ticker tick away some ridiculous scores….And that is just not any good for anyone in the long run.

Thanks for your input. I think SF has lost a bit of interest and from my end I’ll quit complaining about the SF zerg… I think that FC is just so demoralized after fighting against nasty odds from almost launch date that there is no real plan B (appart from all the kittening and moaning). All we really ever wanted was for Anet to acknowledge the issue and respond with some encouraging words. We’re left to our own devices here and some people (including me) just don’t have much fight left in them. We log in, fail, log out swinging our fists at our monitors.
I agree that the only solution here appears to be a month’s abstinence from WvW, but that will never happen I guess and so we’re gonna be stuck with each other for a long, long, looooong time.

Note: there are a number of real hardcore WvWers in FC and I really appreciate their time and dedication while carrying guys like me who don’t really commit as much any more.

What people don’t understand is that FC doesn’t want to get out of T8 (at least many regonize they are there for a reason). What FC want is a different opponent, oposed to SF who clearly dominate T8, and problably belong to a higher tier…

Some forum warriors like Orikx.9671 keep just throwing words on FC saying how bad they are and that they have no hope… I’m sure that more than anyone, SoR know how boring it is to take the same beating over and over. I’m kinda surprised to see someone from there saying this kind of stuff.

I do belive FC/ET might have a chance against a different server… But we will only know after SF go up. Too bad it’s taking so long (and still will take at least a month). I’m sure that already heavily demoralizated both servers which i’m sure don’t call WvW fun anymore…

But that’s my two coppers…

So how many servers would need to drop down, murder t8, and get stuck in the 3 month rating vortex before et/fc understand they’re too small to compete with anyone? I get your server loyalty, but what you guys are after just doesn’t exist.

I’ve been reading this thread and what I see as a major problem for some servers (FC for exapmple) is NOT specifically the numbers but, what those numbers represent.
For example, If FC has 50 players there vs 50 from either of the other two servers, HOW many are there for PvP? Or how many are there for PVE? Can the computer rating program tell the difference?

Solution take the PVE out of the PVP area. No puzzles, No waypoints, No vistas…
Problem solved. After that point if anyone is in the PVP area they are there for PVP.

Ruprect.7260:

Kumu Honua.2751:

So which server would you like to face instead of the one you are facing now?

^^This^^

You guys would get an even worse beating from any other server. I doubt you guys would even be able to leave spawn with any other server.

This really sux what you guys are having to deal with but I don’t think there is really an easy solution to this. Maybe getting better servers and making it a 4 way battle??

And this supposition is based on…? There’s a lot of speculation in here, and a lot of it just nonsense. Nobody can truly know how well ET and Ferg would do against one of the T7 servers. Could be good, could be bad, but the idea that it would be a complete wash in a T7 server’s direction is simply unfounded. If you want a good read on T7 vs T8 history, look at Detharos’ posts in the SF v FC vs ET threads. He breaks it down far better than I could ever hope to do, and, no, it’s not nearly as one-sided as many of you think it would be.

Look, I appreciate that some people want acknowledgement from the devs, there is only one way to make that happen, we have to work. I am from FC, I know our pop is low and mostly PvE oriented, and quite frankly I don’t care. I have the time of my life fighting against SF and ET, and off the battlefield, I have a ton of respect for both. That being said, beating the odds makes winning a little sweeter.

geekanerd.4123:

Ruprect.7260:

Kumu Honua.2751:

So which server would you like to face instead of the one you are facing now?

^^This^^

You guys would get an even worse beating from any other server. I doubt you guys would even be able to leave spawn with any other server.

This really sux what you guys are having to deal with but I don’t think there is really an easy solution to this. Maybe getting better servers and making it a 4 way battle??

And this supposition is based on…? There’s a lot of speculation in here, and a lot of it just nonsense. Nobody can truly know how well ET and Ferg would do against one of the T7 servers. Could be good, could be bad, but the idea that it would be a complete wash in a T7 server’s direction is simply unfounded. If you want a good read on T7 vs T8 history, look at Detharos’ posts in the SF v FC vs ET threads. He breaks it down far better than I could ever hope to do, and, no, it’s not nearly as one-sided as many of you think it would be.

It’s more of an educated guess. Trust me I know how you feel, we in TC have been up against a wall for weeks. The difference is we enjoy the battles and worry less about the scores. No matter what we just keep going. We know eventually we will settle into where we belong.