Guild Wars 2

Genev.2450:

To be fair, those monkeys would likely end up taking each other out by accident, in GW2 that isn’t really possible :p

Friendly fire in GW2. Now that would be… interesting

Somehow, i believe CIR would get a lot less done… :p

Stop reasoning Genev, I’m trying to get people to think IMO If you have 15 people, you can accomplish anything in this game, as long as you decide where and when to fight. I don’t think zerging is a tactic or the mother of all solution. Turtle tactic were used at a time, but still this can be broken. But lets agree to disagree

Sorry mOlder, its an annoying habit of mine. I do agree with you though
<3

Empyre.2531:

saVdoom.2067:

Seth Lex.5493:

Same.4687:

I call bullkitten on all accounts until someone comes up with any form of proof.
/snip

There: http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=IFfsYGEpD0E#t=525s
Now, since there is actually a whole bunch of people telling you that the Earth does in fact move around the Sun, can we move on?

Wow. Luring pugs into choke points is very hard indeed. Its nearly as hard as funneling doors…. something yall seem very proud to do ?

Re-read:

If a group of 30 spreads out vs a group of 10 who’s spread out.

Mate, it’s one of SFR strongest guilds, OSC plus their followers (Paladini guild plus the usual pu that run after each commander tag they see)

I saw exactly what Same saw. I counted ~15 OSC members, and the “huge red blob” Sacrx loves to shout about, has probably 40% of it as pets, since just think that a Necromancer will have around 4 pets only himself… all of them displaying red names, and probably a lot of pugs.

On the end of the video when you jump off the platform that leads to the jumping puzzle and attack on some stragglers i couldn’t see one OSC member downed to be honest, correct me if i’m wrong. Perhaps they took off and left the pugs there?

mOlder.4803:

To Same:
Imagine a RL scenario. Give 30/40 monkeys their own fully-loaded machinegun, and try to take them out with 9 of your best friends. I wouldn’t exactly go head-to-head vs them on an open field. I don’t get what you’re trying to prove. The culling problem has been identified and we can only hope it will be fixed. But still I don’t know why you insist you should be superior to those monkeys when all logic states you shouldn’t charge in head first? :p

This is by far the most nonsensical post I have ever read in my life. It relates in no way to what I’m trying to explain and it still makes you look like a person who does in fact run into the same glass door twice expecting a different result..

I will once more, this time shorter, explain why your post here makes no sense on any level.

I never said anything about when or what to engage. I’m discussing the fact that it is impossible because of limitations in this game (downed state, aoe cap, etc) to beat a zerg 3 times your zerg or higher.

Why would I say this? Because people claim they did it, the RG fella even tried to show us in a movie clip. I refuted it all because it was untrue and came with facts explaining why it is highly improbable to win a zerg vs zerg with a 1 to 3 ratio.

Again this has in no way, shape or form anything to do with when you do or do not attack. This has to do with people making claims of winning a battle where they were outnumbered 3 to 1.

I also would honestly approve of you going to see some kind of doctor to try and figure out why you are unable to read and comprehend a number of sentences in which I already said this multiple times.

But just for you:
I’m not discussing the actual thought process about when and where to attack. I AM however debating the probability of people winning a fight in which the enemy outnumbers them 3 to 1, which people claim to do on a daily basis.

So in short, that’s 4 times I explained it in this post. Try and see if you can make it stick this time.

I will even go out on a limb and say that you are right for not attacking 30 chimps with fully automatic weaponry (I still don’t know how you came up with this) in open combat. Because considering the fact that they could be trained to use weaponry (I guess thats what you imply) and have opposable thumbs they will most likely beat you because hey 30 automatic weapons prolly beat 9 automatic weapons right?
It still proves my point more than it makes a statement for yours…

And that’s 5…

vipeout.2485:

Or if the group of 10 only spammed aoe. Which is not what happens if you actually want to pull that off.

Or if the group was defending a tower and used siege lol

10vs30 wins happen very very rarely. You can tell me how good you are, but you’re not going to make me believe you 10vs30 frequently and win the fights most of the time. They really have to suck if your organized group of 10 kills them all.

Now, saying you won 20vs30-40 makes more sense. Especially if the 20 are organized and the 30-40 are not.

He’s equating unorganised zergs with monkeys with automatic weapons and organised guild groups with whatever highly trained small force who work together you want them to be.
I thought it was pretty obvious…..

His point was as well that the monkeys (more fun to call them that than unorganised zergs) aren’t going to be as effective as people working together, and that it is in fact very possible to kill 30 monkeys with less than that.

Things irrelevant in your arguement:
- Downed state: Monkeys dont/rarely res each other, and with all the damage flying around will drop faster than they can come back up
- AoE cap: Relying on AoE in this game is silly due to this cap, to be fair, relying on AoE is silly regardless of caps, while of course there’s going to be AoE, there’s also going to be tons of other skills used (healing, buffs, knockbacks, bla bla, the works) which matter a lot more.

Things which you ignore completely for some reason:
- Movement within and around a group: Standing still or just running in Braveheart style will get you killed, move around within and around the large enemy group, kitten up their los, evade…. It’s funny how little people actually evade in WvW, it’s surprisingly useful.
- Surprise: Or maybe SURPRIIIIIISE! Nuff said

We’re not saying it’s possible every time, monkeys can get lucky, we can fumble something, or we can meet an organised group (rhinos?!), but it is possible in this game, and i repeat, if you haven’t had the pleasure to win such odds, i feel sorry for you.

Just saw somewhere iin here that BT are taking a break or bored. How is it that a server in T1 sine launch continue to fight and a server in T1 for 3 weeks get bored?

Just wondering xD

Vizunah’s taken breaks before as well, don’t pretend they havent /snort

All the flames!?

(and Sird, you’ll get there too in Seafarer’s, that’s what Server jumping does to you).

I am glad to have the company of one of the GF commanders over at FSP this week, and in my guild… (vacation visit! honorary invite)

All the hugs and loves / your little asura (commander) from Far Shiver <3

Genev.2450:

Vizunah’s taken breaks before as well, don’t pretend they havent /snort

I only recall one break and that was during the secong match up vs Deso. Obviously im not that clued in. Not trying hate on BT or whatever was just a question. xD

Sird.4536:

Just saw somewhere iin here that BT are taking a break or bored. How is it that a server in T1 sine launch continue to fight and a server in T1 for 3 weeks get bored?

Just wondering xD

Wondering the same thing. There is no reason to be bored… Yeah, if everyone leaves then it gets pretty boring, because you can’t do much. That in turn gives other people the reason not to play anymore. And so the circle continues.

But how can it be boring when we’re “losing”? There’s enough to do. Get your kitten in wvw.

Maloki don’t try and make us look bad by leaving FSP. We did everything we could to help FSP after the first set of guilds vanished. Everyone at VcY still has alot if respect for FSp and its community and we are more interested in your match up than ours.

Sird.4536:

Maloki don’t try and make us look bad by leaving FSP. We did everything we could to help FSP after the first set of guilds vanished. Everyone at VcY still has alot if respect for FSp and its community and we are more interested in your match up than ours.

I’m not hijacking this thread for that

Anyways Nug and GF, I still love you all even if you left! (the others not so much :>)

Same: msg me if you want some pointers in tactic if you want to improve your skills in few vs many I know for a fact there has been people winning 3 to 1 fights. Be it solo vs three, 2 ppl vs 6, 6 vs 18 or 20 vs 60. Hell I’m sure there has been 30 vs 90 scenarios where the 30 ppl won. But it’s hard for me to prove it in every scenario I’m not sure why you want the developers to make it easier for you to accomplish this. It’s not easy, I give you that but it shouldn’t be.

As for your first post:

WvW has never been about skill. This has nothing to do with its playerbase but everything to do with the game. WvW in its current state doesn’t allow skill to be a definitive factor in a fight. There are way too many variables negate it. This is a numbers game before anything else, its flashy, easy to get into and promotes zerging like sheep.

The only real skill can be found in tPvP but that is already as dead as it can possibly be.

This is what I completely disagrees on. If you can’t handle that people disagrees with you, you are a novice on public internet forums

Genev.2450:

Vizunah’s taken breaks before as well, don’t pretend they havent /snort

everyone takes a break from time to time, i for instance love to break … some AS/VS backs.
gotta love ranger pets, their meat is so tender

cheers,
Oreilly

Far Shiverpeaks was a great place to play but at some point there was just a few guilds that had 7 days per week WvW coverage with 20+ people in raids.

Green fire left, Nugos left, Za Drots took a break while they were searching for new home and that was it…

Maloki, you are a true legend of Far Shiverpeaks for me and your loyalty is so epic but you have to understand that for most of us there is no such thing as server loyalty but only guild loyalty.

mOlder.4803:

Same: msg me if you want some pointers in tactic if you want to improve your skills in few vs many I know for a fact there has been people winning 3 to 1 fights. Be it solo vs three, 2 ppl vs 6, 6 vs 18 or 20 vs 60. Hell I’m sure there has been 30 vs 90 scenarios where the 30 ppl won. But it’s hard for me to prove it in every scenario I’m not sure why you want the developers to make it easier for you to accomplish this. It’s not easy, I give you that but it shouldn’t be.

As for your first post:

WvW has never been about skill. This has nothing to do with its playerbase but everything to do with the game. WvW in its current state doesn’t allow skill to be a definitive factor in a fight. There are way too many variables negate it. This is a numbers game before anything else, its flashy, easy to get into and promotes zerging like sheep.

The only real skill can be found in tPvP but that is already as dead as it can possibly be.

This is what I completely disagrees on. If you can’t handle that people disagrees with you, you are a novice on public internet forums

Thanks I think I will pass on the “skill lesson”. I have done 1v3 plenty of times myself and won. However this doesn’t mean that 10v30 is possible aswell unless 20 of those 30 people just stand there and do nothing.

What you CIR folks seem to not be able to understand is that I’m not discussing tactics or ways to enter combat or WHEN to enter combat. I’m discussing the fact that because of limitations in this game set by ANet make it highly improbable to win a straight up 10v30. Hence it won’t really ever happen.
This has absolutely 0 to do with whether or not the conditions were bad for the opposing team or whatever. I’m just stating the obvious, being that if 10 people went up against 30 people in a straight up fight the 10 will always lose.
It doesn’t matter when where or why these two groups fight, it’s just that this game doesn’t allow it to work in favor of the smaller group even though they immensly outskill the bigger group.

This isn’t a flame, diss or whatever you want to call it. This is basic math. You CIR folks however have shown for almost 2 full pages that you lack any understanding of it. Now that WAS a flame.

I have put down simple explanations everywhere and anyone with half a brain should understand them. If you don’t I really fear for your life cause chances are you are the type of person who decides that putting a tv and a toaster on the side of your bathtub while taking a bath is a good freaking idea.

For now I’m absolutely done with the simpletons who refuse to read or listen. Have a nice day.

On topic:

Since last reset BT feels like a freaking desert. If we can field 50 players during the day across all 4 maps I would be doing an Irish Folkdance in my underwear. If anything our numbers right now are close to 20 across 4 maps…

Eventually during EU primetime we might be able to get 100 across 4 maps but that may be stretching it. I don’t know whats going on, or whether BT has decided to take a break, I just know that we didn’t stand a chance during this week because we simply had no-one to do anything with.

Vukanigia.5496:

Far Shiverpeaks was a great place to play but at some point there was just a few guilds that had 7 days per week WvW coverage with 20+ people in raids.

Green fire left, Nugos left, Za Drots took a break while they were searching for new home and that was it…

Maloki, you are a true legend of Far Shiverpeaks for me and your loyalty is so epic but you have to understand that for most of us there is no such thing as server loyalty but only guild loyalty.

Dalzone [DZ] also moved with GF and Nug.

I kinda agree. In the beginning I was very fond of Far Shiverpeaks and actually thought I wouldn’t leave. But after a while the server broke. I wasn’t in Nugos yet when they moved. I went to Blacktide to join Nugos about 2 weeks after GF/Nug/DZ/etc moved.

There was nothing left for me on FSP. I play WvW 99% of the time (1% in queue or tradingpost etc) and the server couldn’t offer me enough to enjoy the game like I wanted to.

Same, who do you play with? Just because you are incapable of doing so does not make outnumbered fights impossible.

@Same:

7 vs ~24 (24 dead by my count, a few more survived, and the fight lasted way longer than this – the group pulled back and pushed a second time, but I spent a lot of the time defeated, so I didn’t include it in the video since watching someone manage inventory is pretty boring)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=85_JFTvHIMI#t=380s

5 vs ~ 15

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=uWCXRTvwP18#t=417s

By all means, post how this doesn’t count because we used a choke in both clips and they were lowbies in the first. Of course you can’t win against 3x your numbers in an open field, that’s what tactics and organisation are for.

@Same. I get the image you didn’t quite get what the scenario others were talking about was. Afaik no one said 10 vs 30 was a definite win if the 10 attacked head on and the 30 a) paid attention b) had +50% non pugs. Acctually, no one said 10 vs 30 was ever a definite win. But arguing that it NEVER happens is just ridiculous. Also yeah, sure, maybe some of the 10 vs 30 scenarios are acctually 27 vs 11 or w.e but that’s not such a huge difference is it.

Let’s say There’s 30 pugs attacking a keep gate. 10 organized people see them. Approx half of the 30 pugs are dead or downed by the time all of them have realized they’re under attack. At that point lets’ say there’s 17 pugs left. Now of those 17 pugs 7 are undergeared/underlvld and die in the next few seconds. There’s 10 left. Surprised pug of 10 vs 8-10 organized players who are heavily buffed (maybe some at 50% HP), who do you think wins? I’ve been in a plenty of fights like this, sometimes you win and sometimes you die. But it is NOT impossible.

Your math is flawed because you forget human thoughts ‘lag’, reaction speeds vary, the amount of CC in both teams vary and there’s always those zombie PUs who don’t pay too much attention to what’s happening around them.

I really cannot understand you guys. His main and first post was:

Same.4687:

WvW has never been about skill. This has nothing to do with its playerbase but everything to do with the game. WvW in its current state doesn’t allow skill to be a definitive factor in a fight.

Then people started pulling examples how they’re doing 10 vs 30 and winning from day one, so for their understanding.. “skill” is playing a big part on it.

Then he just said it its not possible because if you put it an open field fight there is just no way how you’ll overcome the damage/cc of 30 people beating on you when you’re only 10. Because the game just simple does not allow it.

I think the big miss-understanding is that:
Terrain != skill.
Culling != skill.
Having low affect from lag or hardware issues when your enemies are having 0-5 fps != skill.

Genev.2450:

Vizunah’s taken breaks before as well, don’t pretend they havent /snort

actualy this week is our first true break!

Same.4687:

I also never said its impossible to take out larger groups than yours. I did however claim it’s highly improbable and borderline impossible to take out a group 3/4 times larger than you (as someone so boldly stated earlier in this thread).

Orly?

Same.4687:

In its current state skill doesn’t matter at all in WvW. Sure if you fight a 1v1 or a 5v5 the more skilled opponent will win. But in zergs it is simply impossible to beat numbers* You will never see a group of 10 beat a group of 30/40.* This has nothing to do with skill, it has to do with AoE cap, downed state and other mechanics that limit the impact of skill on battles.

What you should be looking for in WvW is sheer numbers. If you have the biggest zerg you will win.

And again~

Same.4687:

I never said anything about when or what to engage. I’m discussing the fact that it is impossible because of limitations in this game (downed state, aoe cap, etc) to beat a zerg 3 times your zerg or higher.

No it aint.

Same.4687:

If a group of 30 spreads out vs a group of 10 who’s spread out. Your chances get even smaller but you most likely don’t realize that. Your AoE/Damage capabilities are half (already accounting for some bad skill/bad gear/lowbies in the group of 30) or even less than half of what the group of 30 can poop out.
If a group of 30 spreads out your chances to make full use of your AoE/Damage decrease.

So we hope they don’t spread out?

Same.4687:

However when the numbers are against you, all you can hope for is that you scare them enough so they scatter and you can pick off small groups.

So if they spread out you die, yet if you scare them into scattering (aka spreading out) you can kill them.

Same.4687:

What you CIR folks seem to not be able to understand is that I’m not discussing tactics or ways to enter combat or WHEN to enter combat. I’m discussing the fact that because of limitations in this game set by ANet make it highly improbable to win a straight up 10v30. Hence it won’t really ever happen.

By all rights 10 people should not be able to beat 30 people if everyone is equally skilled and geared. But guess what, they aren’t.

Sorry Same, Nug is a good guild an all but you are chatting bear s*** mate. Yes if a 10 man group runs headlong into a 30 man group you will more than likely be eating dirt in afew seconds.

I’ve been leading 10-15 man groups in this game for quite awhile and i’ve lost count how many times we’ve wiped 2-3x our numbers and it all comes down to skill, discipline and group composition. If you make people bring certain classes you can pull anything off in this game, if you run with a 15 man group and people bring whatever they want, geared and traited however they want, you are going to die to a group much bigger than yours.

You have to fight on your terms and be in control of the situation. Say it’s 15 vs 40, if you catch them unawares and manage to kill 5-10 people in the first burst and then move it’s not now 15 vs 30-35, it’s more like 15 vs 20-25 because you can be damn sure that afew will kitten it and break off, and the rest are going to rush straight for the dead guys to res them.

If they have 30 guys stacked in one spot you don’t charge in you wait and bait them, you spread them out whilst keeping your guys moving. When against the numbers there is one ground rule, never, ever, ever stop moving. You stop moving you start eating static AoE and you give them time to position.

There are dozens of different tactics to use when engaging zergs and by the sounds of it you guys haven’t experimented enough or pushed yourselves hard enough to pull this kind of victory off. Just because you haven’t witnessed it does not make it impossible / improbable.

As for your high and almighty attitude it stinks, Nug is a good guild with alot of good players and you’re dragging the guild name through the dirt.

So man up, stop crying like a little kitten and go out there and make it happen, you will die a hell of alot but for that once outta 5 times you pull it off when you start out, it’s worth it.

Ins.7139:

Same.4687:

In its current state skill doesn’t matter at all in WvW. Sure if you fight a 1v1 or a 5v5 the more skilled opponent will win. But in zergs it is simply impossible to beat numbers* You will never see a group of 10 beat a group of 30/40.* This has nothing to do with skill, it has to do with AoE cap, downed state and other mechanics that limit the impact of skill on battles.

What you should be looking for in WvW is sheer numbers. If you have the biggest zerg you will win.

Zerg fights is the main word here, i think by that he does not mean a normal fight where you’ll have planned your engagement and positioning, pre-buffing (like you usually do, and like it is shown in the couple videos posted).

He means if you head-to-head meet the opposite zerg being 3x your numbers you will not survive if you try the engagement, because skill is not a decisive factor in WvWvW in such fights. Positioning, planning and composition are though. If you consider those to be “skill” then by all means.. keep arguing till the end of times.

But there’s absolutely no reason to do that, and tactics, planning and positioning is just as much skill as pressing buttons is, jsut a different type of skill.
I can press buttons quite well, or so i believe, but i couldn’t lead my way out of a paper bag.

Genev.2450:

But there’s absolutely no reason to do that, and tactics, planning and positioning is just as much skill as pressing buttons is, jsut a different type of skill.
I can press buttons quite well, or so i believe, but i couldn’t lead my way out of a paper bag.

Agreed. But i think the skill that Same meant is the one that you can see in tPvP fights such as:

“Ok that warrior just popped his signets and elite so he’s going to do massive damage, i’ll be ready to pop my invulnerability as soon as he cc me or just avoid/cc him till his cooldowns are off, meanwhile i just saw that the enemy Elementalist just switched off Water attunement and already used his mist form, which means he won’t have any cooldown or other healing ability to survive if we focus him again within the next 40seconds or so, despide him being a staff Elementalist normally known as a super bunky class.”

etc.

Well..discussion started as “WvW has never been about skill” and now leaning toward the culling bug that disables any attempt at skill facing large numbers. We all agree on that, so no point arguing more. Please keep these separate, as we’re trying to explain to Same here that WvW definitely is about skill and not only numbers. Choose your fights though as some fights are lost before you try.

saVdoom.2067:

Zerg fights is the main word here, i think by that he does not mean a normal fight where you’ll have planned your engagement and positioning, pre-buffing (like you usually do, and like it is shown in the couple videos posted).

He means if you head-to-head meet the opposite zerg being 3x your numbers you will not survive if you try the engagement, because skill is not a decisive factor in WvWvW in such fights. Positioning, planning and composition are though. If you consider those to be “skill” then by all means.. keep arguing till the end of times.

Of course you wont win, because no amount of skill is going to save you from your stupidity. If you head to head meet a 30 man zerg you get the hell out of there before they can kill you. For instance, a very skilled player could kill 4 people, but he couldn’t do it if he was poorly geared. Same applys to your small man group, you need to get everyone up to a set point to be able to kill them quickly enough to win. So again it all comes down to individual skill in the battle. 10 unskilled people would charge through the zerg hitting auto attack till a) they die or b) the enemy dies. A group of 10 skilled players would first position themselves correctly whilst moving and secondly use abilities / skills / autoattacks where they are needed, not just button smashing hoping for the best. (Using abilities to split the zerg up or buy enough time to correct a mistake)

You then create the scenario and take control of the situation to get people prebuffed in safety so you are ready to take that zerg on.

Basically you’re all arguing that he is right, when all he’s actually saying is what we have known since the first battles in time. Numbers win, everyone knows that. Does Same want a medal for pointing this out? He is just being outright ignorant trying to apply this “knowledge” to every scenario in game.

We, VS people, prefer when the fight is tough and when you guys play with full force. Even if it means we are 2nd.
But we understand you need a break some days, and we thank you for letting us have one at the moment. After three months and lots of people trying to take us down it is a pleasure to sleep a bit more for 3 days !

Cheers from Vizu

I find the atmosphere really nice on the forums when there’s no “deso” matchup in the do not you?

much less crying ans e-drama!!

I just want to say thanks to AS and VS servers for some great times over the past few weeks. It has been fun to run wild around WvW in a small group trying to take ground in our servers off peak time. Its been great to have AS back in tier 1 and to fight against VS who never ever give up.

Both servers should be proud to have great communities with a never say die attitude. I hope that all 3 of our servers return to greater strength over the coming months.

zarg.1853:

I find the atmosphere really nice on the forums when there’s no “deso” matchup in the do not you?

much less crying ans e-drama!!

Actually there is more drama going on these matchups, but it’s on French fora.
So if you can read French, bring your popcorn.

Raege.1069:

@Same. I get the image you didn’t quite get what the scenario others were talking about was. Afaik no one said 10 vs 30 was a definite win if the 10 attacked head on and the 30 a) paid attention b) had +50% non pugs. Acctually, no one said 10 vs 30 was ever a definite win. But arguing that it NEVER happens is just ridiculous. Also yeah, sure, maybe some of the 10 vs 30 scenarios are acctually 27 vs 11 or w.e but that’s not such a huge difference is it.

Let’s say There’s 30 pugs attacking a keep gate. 10 organized people see them. Approx half of the 30 pugs are dead or downed by the time all of them have realized they’re under attack. At that point lets’ say there’s 17 pugs left. Now of those 17 pugs 7 are undergeared/underlvld and die in the next few seconds. There’s 10 left. Surprised pug of 10 vs 8-10 organized players who are heavily buffed (maybe some at 50% HP), who do you think wins? I’ve been in a plenty of fights like this, sometimes you win and sometimes you die. But it is NOT impossible.

Your math is flawed because you forget human thoughts ‘lag’, reaction speeds vary, the amount of CC in both teams vary and there’s always those zombie PUs who don’t pay too much attention to what’s happening around them.

I also think you forgot the amount of pugs that run away on first sight of the enemy :P We all have to agree here that this is quite an important factor when fighting against Vizunah pugs (even guilds, but no names are dropped)

I think mathematically Same might be correct, if the 2 groups were turtling. But those fighting conditions don’t occur as often anymore. Luring enemies into choking points or other tactics really help.

Come to think of it, we do often win while being heavily outnumbered. I just never care to count the amount of enemies.

But in the end it’s still a numbers game. It was never intended for you to win 1vs50 :P

A new video from this matchup. Guardian point of view. Sorry for the bad quality, I will improve it by upgrading my video editing software. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3dQgW6JEC6o

Ins.7139:

saVdoom.2067:

Zerg fights is the main word here, i think by that he does not mean a normal fight where you’ll have planned your engagement and positioning, pre-buffing (like you usually do, and like it is shown in the couple videos posted).

He means if you head-to-head meet the opposite zerg being 3x your numbers you will not survive if you try the engagement, because skill is not a decisive factor in WvWvW in such fights. Positioning, planning and composition are though. If you consider those to be “skill” then by all means.. keep arguing till the end of times.

Of course you wont win, because no amount of skill is going to save you from your stupidity. If you head to head meet a 30 man zerg you get the hell out of there before they can kill you. For instance, a very skilled player could kill 4 people, but he couldn’t do it if he was poorly geared. Same applys to your small man group, you need to get everyone up to a set point to be able to kill them quickly enough to win. So again it all comes down to individual skill in the battle. 10 unskilled people would charge through the zerg hitting auto attack till a) they die or b) the enemy dies. A group of 10 skilled players would first position themselves correctly whilst moving and secondly use abilities / skills / autoattacks where they are needed, not just button smashing hoping for the best. (Using abilities to split the zerg up or buy enough time to correct a mistake)

You then create the scenario and take control of the situation to get people prebuffed in safety so you are ready to take that zerg on.

Basically you’re all arguing that he is right, when all he’s actually saying is what we have known since the first battles in time. Numbers win, everyone knows that. Does Same want a medal for pointing this out? He is just being outright ignorant trying to apply this “knowledge” to every scenario in game.

Finally you said it.

OFCOURSE no-one in their right mind would charge into a group of 30 with just 10 hoping for the best. However people claimed to have done so (two pages back by now). People actually said they managed to completely decimate groups 3-4x larger than theirs, which I just called impossible based on math.

You should never just dive into that group of 30, you should try to make that group of 30 smaller by running around for a bit making people bored of chasing you. Create chaos by splitting your own group up and meeting up later. But that doesn’t change the fact that by the time you fight that so called group of 30, it no longer is a group of 30 but it’s a group of 15-20 which in no way is a group 3-4x larger than you.

That is all I said. I don’t want a medal, I want people that are swinging their e-peen around in forums to back it up with proof or come up with accurate stories. I wouldn’t have said a single thing if people said this:

We manage to beat groups 3-4x our size by creating chaos, making them split up. We then fought the first group that was still bigger than ours and then fought another that was bigger than ours.

Because beating 2 groups of 15-20 (SEPARATELY) as a group of 10 is possible, it’s hard, but possible.

^ my point as well

If the enemy is spread out too much and half of them aren’t really attacking your group (especially if their first reaction is to back off) it’s not really a 10vs30-40. You usally wipe them by a chunk at a time. Not all at once.

Vizunah Square, the only Server that was T1 from the start and now gets to Nr.1 again. This wont be repeatable, not by Blacktide not by any other Server that just got to the top because of WTJ.

Thanks for some fun fights in BT and VS borderlands late last night. Got some great small scale fights.

suppenkasper.5371:

Vizunah Square, the only Server that was T1 from the start and now gets to Nr.1 again. This wont be repeatable, not by Blacktide not by any other Server that just got to the top because of WTJ.

I really do not understand what that message trying to say. No one else is able to take the top spot again, or what?

Same.4687:

We manage to beat groups 3-4x our size by creating chaos, making them split up. We then fought the first group that was still bigger than ours and then fought another that was bigger than ours.

I really don’t get your POV. If you managed to do it, why you say it is not possible ?

10 people team can kill 30 med/low skilled player zerg. There are a lot of gameplay element that requires teamwork and that are not yet use by regular zerg.

The chance to beat a 3x size is determined by a lot factor (your composition but also the enemy composition, their awareness, your leader ability to create opportunity, favorable terrain etc…)

GW2 has a unique gameplay and we are still far from knowing everything. Those who have a greater knowledge will always get an edge on superior sized zerg.

But that apart , it is nearly impossible to win a 3x size of players who actually know what they are doing. That’s where math is right but human are not perfect so there are still chances

Rednik.3809:

suppenkasper.5371:

Vizunah Square, the only Server that was T1 from the start and now gets to Nr.1 again. This wont be repeatable, not by Blacktide not by any other Server that just got to the top because of WTJ.

I really do not understand what that message trying to say. No one else is able to take the top spot again, or what?

Just the usual bragging. Random guy thinks he’s the best. We have those people too. Just ignore them.

I hope not all people in tier 1 are like same… I really hope your a poor troll and not serious…

I usually fight against the odds you mention and more often than not win… other guys might be low, randoms or just bad though but still head on can win vs numbers.

4 vs 20+ in the open is maybe one of the best in terms of numbers difference… (ne supply camp killing their siege + players) they was trebbing hills

9 vs 60+ in a keep defence (which is a bit different) was garrison lolz

and another one which was pretty good was when a mega zerg jumped my guild group on reset (was attacking lake gate) didnt even see them coming around the corner they hit us hard 40-60 vs 18 and only lost one guy.

Now all the above fights aint got any evidence as I dont run fraps, others in my guild sometimes run fraps, but the unexpected fights you dont really leave fraps on as you will fill up hard drive pretty fast. The fights mentioned was before culling got worse… but still killed mega blob with the latest culling issues just its alot harder for obvious reasons.

These below are for you same… and i know there’s plenty more proof and evidence of other guilds doing similar or even better odds all the time…

you sound like someone who spends all their time in eternal battlegrounds and only just discovered the outer borderlands… hope you enjoy mate

Hopefully we get to fight you guys when you get to tier 2 and we drop down at some point, TUP.

I dont think Piken will get to tier 2… we will see how tier 3 goes. I know we would like to fight RG sometime, with and against, we worked well when we were together. I personally would like to fight equal number guild groups more than just random huge culling zerg, in our current tier i dont really see enemy guild groups much, besides maybe one decent per a server, like Riverside community and kodasch alliance?

i’d also love to fight other guilds of piken someday in the future maybe not in WvW but if they ever implemented GvG

If we do come across you, we will turn sacrx into a moa and kill him and you can do same to dranul haha or better yet… they can both build a golem each and duel jaja

Thanks legoles tu put the link in a previous psot, bew awesome thread on the VS’a alliance forums, forget the trolls, have fun and enjoy pics

http://www.grandcross.fr/forum/welcome-mates-!/joy-of-wvw/

Oh and Btw, don’t hesitate to register and add your own ones

Absolutely unplayable tonight… 10/15 sec latency on skill, clipping more violent than ever… hope with the new match up anet make something …