Guild Wars 2

I’ve seen small groups repel many a happy fun ball from towers and keeps.
If you aren’t going to spend the resources to siege up what you own then the happy fun ball deserves to overrun it, leaving you bleeding and twitching on the floor.

Get on a voice chat, gather a group who will listen to commands, set up siege to repel.
It can be done, just don’t expect to turn away the ball with a group of casuals who
1) don’t play alongside each other often enough to work cohesively
2) won’t pay attention to, or follow the commands of the group commander
3) run away at the first sight of the happy fun ball rolling in
4) if you are defending a tower/keep, you HAVE to siege up. Siege is there to help against the enemy. They are valuable tools. They work. Siege operators have to communicate and work together. Focus fire together and work the mob down. Each AC or ballista firing at a separate section of the mob will just scratch the enemy and allow them to heal up and continue. Spam a section together, drop the enemy before they can get out of the focused area, shift fire and repeat.

Out in the open field..run and find a choke point. Get ACs (and Ballista if you are running with enough people for the supply) up and use em to good effect. If you can tear down a mob or even break it down to a manageable size, then the siege cost is worth it. An organized group of 10 can pop 3 ACs in almost an instant and do lots of damage in a choke point.

There are ways to deal with the Happy Fun Ball if we can just get organized.

Slamz.5376:

Ruprect.7260:

A zerg of 60 necros would be able to lay so many marks/wells down that nothing would be able to get within 1200 range lol. This is about 420 wells/marks lol, they could be spread out so far that no even a double dodge roll would get through it.

Yeah, now all you need is 60 necros with military discipline.

Realistically, though, what would happen is some people stream in, set off all the marks, get downed, get raised up by the people streaming in behind them and then the necros all die. Necro marks tend to work best when you can plop them down on top of a big group. Simply setting them around as “traps” tends to result in them getting set off by 1 guy.

If you put them out in concentric circles they would have to send many in to set them all off. Don’t forget there would also be 120-180 wells lol. These are not set off and mine hit like a truck in the spec I run. I hope they remove the AoE cap so everyone can see how it will be exploited just like the cap is now. I just think the no AoE cap will be exploited much much worse.

Daemonne.5018:

I’ve seen small groups repel many a happy fun ball from towers and keeps.
If you aren’t going to spend the resources to siege up what you own then the happy fun ball deserves to overrun it, leaving you bleeding and twitching on the floor.

Get on a voice chat, gather a group who will listen to commands, set up siege to repel.
It can be done, just don’t expect to turn away the ball with a group of casuals who
1) don’t play alongside each other often enough to work cohesively
2) won’t pay attention to, or follow the commands of the group commander
3) run away at the first sight of the happy fun ball rolling in
4) if you are defending a tower/keep, you HAVE to siege up. Siege is there to help against the enemy. They are valuable tools. They work. Siege operators have to communicate and work together. Focus fire together and work the mob down. Each AC or ballista firing at a separate section of the mob will just scratch the enemy and allow them to heal up and continue. Spam a section together, drop the enemy before they can get out of the focused area, shift fire and repeat.

Out in the open field..run and find a choke point. Get ACs (and Ballista if you are running with enough people for the supply) up and use em to good effect. If you can tear down a mob or even break it down to a manageable size, then the siege cost is worth it. An organized group of 10 can pop 3 ACs in almost an instant and do lots of damage in a choke point.

There are ways to deal with the Happy Fun Ball if we can just get organized.

what you say is great, but my point is not how to kill a “blob” but how to prevent blob-ing in the first place.
a reason for enemies to choose or be forced to be spread and require formations and lines and stuff… warhammer style
much more aesthetically pleasing, more relistic, more individual skill required, and more complex tactics.

ps: i repeat myself, but… collision detection. yup

Straegen.2938:

IMO the fix is to remove the control limit but not the AoE limit. If a stun effects everyone in an area without limit, those skills make stacking very dangerous. This causes players to spread out and AoE to be more effective without introducing a probable title wave of skill lag if the AoE limit is removed. I would even go so far as to say skill lag would be reduced with this system since more players would be stunned, dazed, etc in large scale fights thus spamming less skills.

Hard to do when the overwhelming majority of AE utility in this game is also attached to damage. Unless you’re planning to some how hame the damage from the AE limited to 5 targets but the stun/blind/chill/poison spread to everyone? Not sure that’s possible from a technical standpoint.

Trismegistos.3046:

Daemonne.5018:

I’ve seen small groups repel many a happy fun ball from towers and keeps.
If you aren’t going to spend the resources to siege up what you own then the happy fun ball deserves to overrun it, leaving you bleeding and twitching on the floor.

Get on a voice chat, gather a group who will listen to commands, set up siege to repel.
It can be done, just don’t expect to turn away the ball with a group of casuals who
1) don’t play alongside each other often enough to work cohesively
2) won’t pay attention to, or follow the commands of the group commander
3) run away at the first sight of the happy fun ball rolling in
4) if you are defending a tower/keep, you HAVE to siege up. Siege is there to help against the enemy. They are valuable tools. They work. Siege operators have to communicate and work together. Focus fire together and work the mob down. Each AC or ballista firing at a separate section of the mob will just scratch the enemy and allow them to heal up and continue. Spam a section together, drop the enemy before they can get out of the focused area, shift fire and repeat.

Out in the open field..run and find a choke point. Get ACs (and Ballista if you are running with enough people for the supply) up and use em to good effect. If you can tear down a mob or even break it down to a manageable size, then the siege cost is worth it. An organized group of 10 can pop 3 ACs in almost an instant and do lots of damage in a choke point.

There are ways to deal with the Happy Fun Ball if we can just get organized.

what you say is great, but my point is not how to kill a “blob” but how to prevent blob-ing in the first place.
a reason for enemies to choose or be forced to be spread and require formations and lines and stuff… warhammer style
much more aesthetically pleasing, more relistic, more individual skill required, and more complex tactics.

ps: i repeat myself, but… collision detection. yup

Ahh, then IMO you limit the amount of WXP gained when within certain range of a set number of allied players.
The number one attraction to joining the Happy Fun Ball is the (since introduced) WXP gain that it promises.
I would say Number 2 is the safety in numbers while you can zerg your way from lvl 1 – 80
3 would have to be loot or people without direction stacking on the blue dorrito
4 reverse previous if it is of your opinion :-)
5 loot (although sitting behind a ballista or AC firing into a zerg ball is better loot)

I will say that I don’t count zerging SM as a bad thing as you pretty much need the numbers to break in and take over during peak hours :-)

Now I would NOT lower normal xp gained because who cares if people want a fast way to 80. That’s where the fun begins in WvW when you can get a lil gear and feel somewhat like you can hold your own.

Its actually the lack of a tactical narrowed battlefield,those maps were prety much designed to allow people to move.
We need an additional map enforcing smart use of skills,like a trench warfare themed maze.
I would even remove the minimap for it,thus turning it into an even more forced thinking.
More chances to utilise cover and pierceing mechanics this way,while also makeing the melee more solid on his role as a meatshield.
In my own humble opinion the skill kits are designed for more close range combat and tactical play but the current wvw size forces the player to keep 2 skills to run.
Also Bomb/Turret/Mines engi would had more meaning to be played,if the mines/explosions did actually hurt and mines didnt had a bloody blinking light and sound to warn even the dumbest of humans.

It is not hard to create new ideas. I suspect the developer team is some how constrained and put their creativity in other areas? If they won’t do it. They must give us a tool to create what we want.

The developers already kittened about the time requirement to design & implement maps. Instead, they can (or we) alter the existing objective models to promote more defensive warfare engagements. Towers and keep design specifically altered to include more defensive placements, tools, and kill zones. Siege placements that cannot be destroyed conventionally at range and must be destroyed at close range (give Engineer class the ability to attack in skill range).

Here is what I have in mind:
“allow veteran players to sign up for (pc) guard duty at towers, keeps, and SM. The functionality is controlled by the guild who claims the objective. They set a number range of players they want to “hire” to be guards. The players are paid in gold to defend in the vicinity of the objective. Success or failure to be determined by the employer guild.

The “hired” player guards are provided with a unique icon/insignia/uniform. They are provided their own guardroom (to be attached to existing objective models). They are allowed to use guild claim buffs. Hired “contracts” can be time based.

Hired players that achieve a high “rating” for successful employment receive new perks such as an additional 2 levels (for a cap at 82 similar to upgraded veteran guards).

Hired players will have their stats tracked in the leaderboards.

The new features promote increased defense of objectives. Increases importance and viability of defense in gameplay. Reduces mindless objective flipping.

FIRST implementation of a guild employment function. Fosters guild vs guild gameplay. Organized, increased resistance will encourage organized attack. Reduces the power of the blob/zerg."

Blob Wars the Remake: http://youtu.be/sixDADVVnxA

Maybe the reward system should be looked at. This problem seems to have spread to lower tiers now with the wxp system as it is atm.

People are rewarded for blobbing and zerging, the exp for the new ranking system plus the loot bags support this.

Please promote rewards for small scale activities and the risks they entail. Make it so loot exp and bags are capped when killing a solo with a blob of 50 people perhaps? Try NOT to REWARD brainless activities, leeching and lack of responsibility as this is quickly turning off your playbase I believe.

They definitely should increase the AoE cap from 5 to perhaps 15. That way stacking is no longer the only tactic.

Brings back body blocking is another great idea. But when a person is stealthed he shouldn’t be allowed to block anyone. He can still be blocked though.

Rewards for the losing servers still needs to be looked at. Right now once a server starts losing all the pugs disappears.

ARM.3912:

Start the petition! Remove the AOE cap!

Let’s fix a problem by creating a much bigger one!

This is not the way to go.

The way it currently works is fine. Nothing is stopping you from creating a small team and steer away from the “blob” on your own and take small objectives.

GreyWraith.8394:

ARM.3912:

Start the petition! Remove the AOE cap!

Let’s fix a problem by creating a much bigger one!

This is not the way to go.

No, it wouldn’t. Anet would have to redesesign some parts of the map, which allows us to spread out more when we’re attacking garrison and such.
All the AoE cap does now is to favor bad play, it isn’t so much about positisonal tactic as i would like it to be. And removal of the AoE cap wouldn’t be OP when people adapt to it and learn to spread out. The AoE-cap also favours the bigger groups which are fighting much smaller groups. Which isn’t good for the game at all. It becomes more about who can bring the bigger numbers to the table than pure skilled play.

Timelord.8190:

GreyWraith.8394:

ARM.3912:

Start the petition! Remove the AOE cap!

Let’s fix a problem by creating a much bigger one!

This is not the way to go.

No, it wouldn’t. Anet would have to redesesign some parts of the map, which allows us to spread out more when we’re attacking garrison and such.
All the AoE cap does now is to favor bad play, it isn’t so much about positisonal tactic as i would like it to be. And removal of the AoE cap wouldn’t be OP when people adapt to it and learn to spread out.

Sigh,

can you imagine trying to save hills in the lord room with no AoE cap lol. Good luck with that.

So what you want is for Anet to completely redesign WvW so you can run in a small group….. I am not even sure what to say to this….. I would say the majority of people are fine with large scale battles based on the participation I see in WvW right now. Also you are doing it wrong if you are having trouble havoc squadding in WvW, I am in T2 and have fun in small groups all the time.

Ruprect.7260:

Timelord.8190:

GreyWraith.8394:

ARM.3912:

Start the petition! Remove the AOE cap!

Let’s fix a problem by creating a much bigger one!

This is not the way to go.

No, it wouldn’t. Anet would have to redesesign some parts of the map, which allows us to spread out more when we’re attacking garrison and such.
All the AoE cap does now is to favor bad play, it isn’t so much about positisonal tactic as i would like it to be. And removal of the AoE cap wouldn’t be OP when people adapt to it and learn to spread out.

Sigh,

can you imagine trying to save hills in the lord room with no AoE cap lol. Good luck with that.

So what you want is for Anet to completely redesign WvW so you can run in a small group….. I am not even sure what to say to this….. I would say the majority of people are fine with large scale battles based on the participation I see in WvW right now. Also you are doing it wrong if you are having trouble havoc squadding in WvW, I am in T2 and have fun in small groups all the time.

Yes, i actually can. It would actually favours the defenders.
I’ve defended hills when we were otunumbered also.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uGdVTxPFaJU

It would be to easy to defend without the aoe cap so they would have to redesign that area.

I’m convinced people who request the AE cap be removed have never played a game without an AE cap.

Remember what WoW was like at launch? Did you see what RvR was like in DAoC? The AE Cap is needed unless you fully design the game around not having it (introduce elemental resists, introduce specialized armor, introduce actual utility spells/abilities, etc.).

I’ll agree the cap could be increased so the AE damage can better overtake the beneficial buffs (offensive cap to 10 and beneficial at 5 for example), but removing it without a complete redesign of the entire PvP system and world isn’t possible.

To be fair, I kind of like the prospect of redesigning the entire PvP system…

Timelord.8190:

Ruprect.7260:

Timelord.8190:

GreyWraith.8394:

ARM.3912:

Start the petition! Remove the AOE cap!

Let’s fix a problem by creating a much bigger one!

This is not the way to go.

No, it wouldn’t. Anet would have to redesesign some parts of the map, which allows us to spread out more when we’re attacking garrison and such.
All the AoE cap does now is to favor bad play, it isn’t so much about positisonal tactic as i would like it to be. And removal of the AoE cap wouldn’t be OP when people adapt to it and learn to spread out.

Sigh,

can you imagine trying to save hills in the lord room with no AoE cap lol. Good luck with that.

So what you want is for Anet to completely redesign WvW so you can run in a small group….. I am not even sure what to say to this….. I would say the majority of people are fine with large scale battles based on the participation I see in WvW right now. Also you are doing it wrong if you are having trouble havoc squadding in WvW, I am in T2 and have fun in small groups all the time.

Yes, i actually can. It would actually favours the defenders.
I’ve defended hills when we were otunumbered also.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uGdVTxPFaJU

It would be to easy to defend without the aoe cap so they would have to redesign that area.

Lol, your not getting the point.

Why would Anet redesign WvW to make the by far minority happy. By the way those invaders were terrible. They never even tried to push in. One Mesmer veil and a double roll and you are in AoE bombing everyone stuck in the lords room, it would be over in a few seconds.

Suggestion: Reduce run speed if you are close to many other people. 10 or less you run normally, 10-30 you run at in-combat speed, >30 you walk.

This leaves massive keep/tower sieges as they are, but gives the defenders more time to fight back as the blob charges the lord room.

In the open field its no longer efficient to have the zergball move from camp to camp. Makes it better for smaller groups to do this while the zerg hits keeps.

Opens up the ability for solo/small groups to roam and escape the zerg.

Ruprect.7260:

Timelord.8190:

Ruprect.7260:

Timelord.8190:

GreyWraith.8394:

ARM.3912:

Start the petition! Remove the AOE cap!

Let’s fix a problem by creating a much bigger one!

This is not the way to go.

No, it wouldn’t. Anet would have to redesesign some parts of the map, which allows us to spread out more when we’re attacking garrison and such.
All the AoE cap does now is to favor bad play, it isn’t so much about positisonal tactic as i would like it to be. And removal of the AoE cap wouldn’t be OP when people adapt to it and learn to spread out.

Sigh,

can you imagine trying to save hills in the lord room with no AoE cap lol. Good luck with that.

So what you want is for Anet to completely redesign WvW so you can run in a small group….. I am not even sure what to say to this….. I would say the majority of people are fine with large scale battles based on the participation I see in WvW right now. Also you are doing it wrong if you are having trouble havoc squadding in WvW, I am in T2 and have fun in small groups all the time.

Yes, i actually can. It would actually favours the defenders.
I’ve defended hills when we were otunumbered also.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uGdVTxPFaJU

It would be to easy to defend without the aoe cap so they would have to redesign that area.

Lol, your not getting the point.

Why would Anet redesign WvW to make the by far minority happy. By the way those invaders were terrible. They never even tried to push in. One Mesmer veil and a double roll and you are in AoE bombing everyone stuck in the lords room, it would be over in a few seconds.

I’m not getting the point because there isn’t one. And can you possible know that a minority want the AoE cap remowed? Thinking isn’t knowing.

Ommu.1649:

Suggestion: Reduce run speed if you are close to many other people. 10 or less you run normally, 10-30 you run at in-combat speed, >30 you walk.

This leaves massive keep/tower sieges as they are, but gives the defenders more time to fight back as the blob charges the lord room.

In the open field its no longer efficient to have the zergball move from camp to camp. Makes it better for smaller groups to do this while the zerg hits keeps.

Opens up the ability for solo/small groups to roam and escape the zerg.

Suggestion: L2Scout

There is always enough time to get to just about anywhere on the map to defend if you have scouts.

If you want to remove the AoE cap then you need to reduce it’s damage. Otherwise this becomes “staff eles 2”. Stacking should be a punished tactic for sure, though. Right now it’s extremely effective to the point where if you don’t do it well you auto-lose the fight. Objectives also flip way too easily in GW2. Towers and keeps change hands three or four times an hour during prime time. Even reinforced structures fall pretty quickly. It makes defense undesirable. Why bother holding it when it will be paper after your enemy takes it, making it easier to retake? Defenders need some sort of solid advantage. The ability to siege one structure from another also desperately needs to be removed. When you can siege a keep from the safety of your own tower, you remove virtually all incentive to defend said keep. It becomes a total waste of time, as the walls will always be filled with holes and you’ll never have the supply to fix them. BL maps are also too small with too little open ground. Way too choke points, cliffs, narrow corridors, and nearby structures. Small groups don’t stand a chance. Zergs also move way too efficiently. They cover the map just as fast as small groups do, only carrying more fire power.

Kiran.2705:

If you want to remove the AoE cap then you need to reduce it’s damage. Otherwise this becomes “staff eles 2”. Stacking should be a punished tactic for sure, though. Right now it’s extremely effective to the point where if you don’t do it well you auto-lose the fight. Objectives also flip way too easily in GW2. Towers and keeps change hands three or four times an hour during prime time. Even reinforced structures fall pretty quickly. It makes defense undesirable. Why bother holding it when it will be paper after your enemy takes it, making it easier to retake? Defenders need some sort of solid advantage. The ability to siege one structure from another also desperately needs to be removed. When you can siege a keep from the safety of your own tower, you remove virtually all incentive to defend said keep. It becomes a total waste of time, as the walls will always be filled with holes and you’ll never have the supply to fix them. BL maps are also too small with too little open ground. Way too choke points, cliffs, narrow corridors, and nearby structures. Small groups don’t stand a chance. Zergs also move way too efficiently. They cover the map just as fast as small groups do, only carrying more fire power.

It won’t be staff eles 2 it will be necro’s 2, ele AoE is too slow to be a problem.

On your server it may be too easy to take a keep/tower, but higher tier servers it is a lot harder. There have been numerous time we have been fighting over a keep for hours, sometimes 4+. If they made it harder it would be impossible for higher tiers to take a keep most of the time.

Ommu.1649:

Suggestion: Reduce run speed if you are close to many other people. 10 or less you run normally, 10-30 you run at in-combat speed, >30 you walk.

This leaves massive keep/tower sieges as they are, but gives the defenders more time to fight back as the blob charges the lord room.

In the open field its no longer efficient to have the zergball move from camp to camp. Makes it better for smaller groups to do this while the zerg hits keeps.

Opens up the ability for solo/small groups to roam and escape the zerg.

Oh heck no. Movement is critical to giving a game that ‘action’ feel. It is one of the reasons I like this game better than Tera and others with that WoWish slow ‘MMO jog’.

Here’s a question that needs asking: why should having more people fighting on your side give you a disadvantage? You sound like you want strategic small group combat which we have… but it’s not WvW.

GreyWraith.8394:

Ommu.1649:

Suggestion: Reduce run speed if you are close to many other people. 10 or less you run normally, 10-30 you run at in-combat speed, >30 you walk.

This leaves massive keep/tower sieges as they are, but gives the defenders more time to fight back as the blob charges the lord room.

In the open field its no longer efficient to have the zergball move from camp to camp. Makes it better for smaller groups to do this while the zerg hits keeps.

Opens up the ability for solo/small groups to roam and escape the zerg.

Oh heck no. Movement is critical to giving a game that ‘action’ feel. It is one of the reasons I like this game better than Tera and others with that WoWish slow ‘MMO jog’.

Here’s a question that needs asking: why should having more people fighting on your side give you a disadvantage? You sound like you want strategic small group combat which we have… but it’s not WvW.

The problem is that the game can’t handle the number of players it should. Between skill lag and low frame rate its unplayable when the blobs hit each other. I’ve got nothing against zerg v zerg fights in a game that can handle it. Trouble is there isn’t a good game out right now that can it so I’d like GW2 to make some changes to make it playable.

I don’t think they can improve their code enough to handle the blobs, so the only alternative is to find some way to make people spread out. If they prove me wrong and we can battle 100v100 with no skill lag after the next patch I’ll be happy to be on the front lines.