Guild Wars 2

That is all. Carry on.

Agreed. I can often keep swinging until the block goes off and the BS lands. IMO the same should apply to blindness. Basically any attack successful or not should trigger the reveal.

The change might not be so simple in the code though.

If the toon in any way could feel the backstab the thief should get revealed. This does not apply to blind since he simply missed the attack. So I do agree that block should trigger revealed.

Geiir.7603:

If the toon in any way could feel the backstab the thief should get revealed. This does not apply to blind since he simply missed the attack. So I do agree that block should trigger revealed.

By allowing players to remained stealth on failed attacks, it lessons the effectiveness of both block and blind. Dodge should also be in the discussion. Good defensive play should effect the attacker. As it is now dodges, blinds, blocks, etc are a minor inconvenience to a stealthed thief rather than something they need to pay attention to (stealth, safely spam 1 key until the big hit lands regardless of the defenders evasiveness).

The attack intent really should be the trigger. If the thief isn’t paying attention and loses a stealth and BS, that is on them. Those defensive mechanics should effect a stealthed player more… IMO.

More Thief QQ? Can you keep this in the thief section please. We complain about Badges of honor and JP griefers here!

Zikory.6871:

More Thief QQ? Can you keep this in the thief section please. We complain about Badges of honor and JP griefers here!

While this change would affect thieves the most, it is not limited to them exclusively. It is a PVP issue (both WvW and SPvP) that should be discussed among all classes. If it was in the thief forum, it would just get negative comments without rational examination.

And as others have said, blocks and blinds should be available as a counter-play to stealth. By allowing blocks and blinds to negate that first stealth attack, you raise the skill ceiling against stealth play (up from swinging-wildly-at-thin-air).

Zikory.6871:

More Thief QQ? Can you keep this in the thief section please. We complain about Badges of honor and JP griefers here!

I don’t think this is really a QQ post. The request is reasonable, would not unbalance the skill and basically doesn’t call anyone out. As a primary thief, I can see why it should be changed as the current mechanic does feel cheap and lessons skilled play.

Great. Another stealth thread.
Could any moderator take a look on these repeated threads?

Best,

Haltair, one of the Twelve shadows

Bear on the job.6273:

Zikory.6871:

More Thief QQ? Can you keep this in the thief section please. We complain about Badges of honor and JP griefers here!

While this change would affect thieves the most, it is not limited to them exclusively. It is a PVP issue (both WvW and SPvP) that should be discussed among all classes. If it was in the thief forum, it would just get negative comments without rational examination.

And as others have said, blocks and blinds should be available as a counter-play to stealth. By allowing blocks and blinds to negate that first stealth attack, you raise the skill ceiling against stealth play (up from swinging-wildly-at-thin-air).

My post is half a joke…so easy…but the thief forum is for anything thief…PvE/PvP/WvW also its for discussions about how other classes interact with the thief. This is a thread about thieves and isn’t WvW specific. This is the WvW thread right? (<- serious response /rawr)

Also I was joking base off the current state of QQ in this forum right now, if the mods move your thread or not means nothing to me.

To get on topic. I don’t think it should unless they rework some of the other classes ways to obtain these boons. (skills not some much, If you could block a stealth thief with timing, good on you for sure) But for example Guardians can run around is basically permanent Aegis which means a thief could never open on a Guardian with out putting them selves at a huge disadvantage right from the start. Also with the lack of boon removal from all weapons sets (excluding S/D) any class with these skills could be considered a very hard counter to the thief. Every class should have counters but not very hard counters.

Sure, why not, it’s logical active blocks should trigger revealed. Also though, it’s logical that active blocks “block” attacks only from the forward 180 degree arc. BOTH in pve and pvp.

Straegen.2938:

Zikory.6871:

More Thief QQ? Can you keep this in the thief section please. We complain about Badges of honor and JP griefers here!

I don’t think this is really a QQ post. The request is reasonable, would not unbalance the skill and basically doesn’t call anyone out. As a primary thief, I can see why it should be changed as the current mechanic does feel cheap and lessons skilled play.

I disagree only because he posts a title with no body of context. This thread is most likely troll bait….

Straegen.2938:

. IMO the same should apply to blindness. Basically any attack successful or not should trigger the reveal. .

Hell no. Block would be tolerable, blind would be kittened. Any attack animation cast would destroy the class because any lag scenario would cause reveal getting you killed.

HOWEVER, this would require some changes to the availability of Aegis.

Haltair.3062:

Great. Another stealth thread.
Could any moderator take a look on these repeated threads?

Best,

Haltair, one of the Twelve shadows

Ever stop and think, that there are so many thief threads because anet refuses to do anything about them? I recently dueled a condition thief, something you rarely see. When he would stealth he would do his rapid sneak attack stack ton of bleed move. I was able to block it several times. What was my reward for perfectly timing it? Him still being stealth to do it all over again instantly everytime with no revealed or initiative lost. Clearly working as intended…

Regards,

JaNordy – One of the 6 CAMP

JaNordy.6149:

Haltair.3062:

Great. Another stealth thread.
Could any moderator take a look on these repeated threads?

Best,

Haltair, one of the Twelve shadows

Ever stop and think, that there are so many thief threads because anet refuses to do anything about them? I recently dueled a condition thief, something you rarely see. When he would stealth he would do his rapid sneak attack stack ton of bleed move. I was able to block it several times. What was my reward for perfectly timing it? Him still being stealth to do it all over again instantly everytime with no revealed or initiative lost. Clearly working as intended…

Regards,

JaNordy – One of the 6 CAMP

Just throwing it out there, but a P/D condi thief has to cloak and dagger you to stealth, unless he blows utils. So unless your “Perfect Timing” involves you allowing him to poke you in the kitten with his dagger every 3-4 seconds, you probably aren’t being particularly honest with us.

Renxian.6982:

Straegen.2938:

. IMO the same should apply to blindness. Basically any attack successful or not should trigger the reveal. .

Hell no. Block would be tolerable, blind would be kittened. Any attack animation cast would destroy the class because any lag scenario would cause reveal getting you killed.

HOWEVER, this would require some changes to the availability of Aegis.

Or just give Guardian a custom Aegis or make is so Aegis has a “block” effect that doesn’t register the same as a shield stance block.

Renxian.6982:

JaNordy.6149:

Haltair.3062:

Great. Another stealth thread.
Could any moderator take a look on these repeated threads?

Best,

Haltair, one of the Twelve shadows

Ever stop and think, that there are so many thief threads because anet refuses to do anything about them? I recently dueled a condition thief, something you rarely see. When he would stealth he would do his rapid sneak attack stack ton of bleed move. I was able to block it several times. What was my reward for perfectly timing it? Him still being stealth to do it all over again instantly everytime with no revealed or initiative lost. Clearly working as intended…

Regards,

JaNordy – One of the 6 CAMP

Just throwing it out there, but a P/D condi thief has to cloak and dagger you to stealth, unless he blows utils. So unless your “Perfect Timing” involves you allowing him to poke you in the kitten with his dagger every 3-4 seconds, you probably aren’t being particularly honest with us.

So rather than argue about a design flaw I pointed out in game, you blindly resort to the “its you” post. My timing was indeed perfect for what I stated. You have no clue how long duel I had with this thief was. He did CnD me many times as we fought, he also missed many times as well. You have completely failed to make a point in what I stated about block and sneak attack. You can tell when someone has no argument when they state “you are not being honest” as their argument.

One love,

JaNordy- One of the 6 CAMP

JaNordy.6149:

Renxian.6982:

JaNordy.6149:

Haltair.3062:

Great. Another stealth thread.
Could any moderator take a look on these repeated threads?

Best,

Haltair, one of the Twelve shadows

Ever stop and think, that there are so many thief threads because anet refuses to do anything about them? I recently dueled a condition thief, something you rarely see. When he would stealth he would do his rapid sneak attack stack ton of bleed move. I was able to block it several times. What was my reward for perfectly timing it? Him still being stealth to do it all over again instantly everytime with no revealed or initiative lost. Clearly working as intended…

Regards,

JaNordy – One of the 6 CAMP

Just throwing it out there, but a P/D condi thief has to cloak and dagger you to stealth, unless he blows utils. So unless your “Perfect Timing” involves you allowing him to poke you in the kitten with his dagger every 3-4 seconds, you probably aren’t being particularly honest with us.

So rather than argue about a design flaw I pointed out in game, you blindly resort to the “its you” post. My timing was indeed perfect for what I stated. You have no clue how long duel I had with this thief was. He did CnD me many times as we fought, he also missed many times as well. You have completely failed to make a point in what I stated about block and sneak attack. You can tell when someone has no argument when they state “you are not being honest” as their argument.

One love,

JaNordy- One of the 6 CAMP

You could have blocked CnD. Then he can’t Sneak Attack and all his other skills are weak as all heck. CnD’s a melee skill so it should be obvious when a ranged set is trying to use it. Also he can only CnD twice from full initiative. Maybe try kiting.

Dual.8953:

You could have blocked CnD. Then he can’t Sneak Attack and all his other skills are weak as all heck. CnD’s a melee skill so it should be obvious when a ranged set is trying to use it. Also he can only CnD twice from full initiative. Maybe try kiting.

Except there are plenty of other ways to stealth such as smoke fields (D/P creates them at will), other creatures, blinding powder, shadows refuge, doors, siege, etc. It is also pretty easy to just wait out dodges then CnD. Going stealth is ridiculously easy for a thief and not much another player can do about it.

Geiir.7603:

If the toon in any way could feel the backstab the thief should get revealed. This does not apply to blind since he simply missed the attack. So I do agree that block should trigger revealed.

“Blind = miss, so you stay stealthed” sounds logical, but in game terms it’s bad.

Classes with a CD mechanic will incur the CD when they “miss”. Thieves have their initiative as a CD mechanic, but BS is “free”, so they incur no CD penalty for missing. What’s supposed to limit BS is that you are revealed after it, but a miss doesn’t trigger this, so again no penalty. They can just keep on hacking away until they finally hit.

Imagine your rifle warrior would get a do-over on his kill shot, because he got blinded at the end of the channel.

JaNordy.6149:

Renxian.6982:

JaNordy.6149:

Haltair.3062:

Great. Another stealth thread.
Could any moderator take a look on these repeated threads?

Best,

Haltair, one of the Twelve shadows

Ever stop and think, that there are so many thief threads because anet refuses to do anything about them? I recently dueled a condition thief, something you rarely see. When he would stealth he would do his rapid sneak attack stack ton of bleed move. I was able to block it several times. What was my reward for perfectly timing it? Him still being stealth to do it all over again instantly everytime with no revealed or initiative lost. Clearly working as intended…

Regards,

JaNordy – One of the 6 CAMP

Just throwing it out there, but a P/D condi thief has to cloak and dagger you to stealth, unless he blows utils. So unless your “Perfect Timing” involves you allowing him to poke you in the kitten with his dagger every 3-4 seconds, you probably aren’t being particularly honest with us.

So rather than argue about a design flaw I pointed out in game, you blindly resort to the “its you” post. My timing was indeed perfect for what I stated. You have no clue how long duel I had with this thief was. He did CnD me many times as we fought, he also missed many times as well. You have completely failed to make a point in what I stated about block and sneak attack. You can tell when someone has no argument when they state “you are not being honest” as their argument.

One love,

JaNordy- One of the 6 CAMP

My point, since you are missing it, is that you failed to dodge or block the important part of the combo, which you can see coming because he has to practically caress you to land it. It doesn’t matter how long you were fighting because attrition is the absolute worst way to kill anything and a condition thief is pretty much 100% attrition damage. Attrition damage takes so stupidly long to take anyone with health it still amazes me that people actually die to condi thieves. They can’t even condition load you, they are just stacking bleed.

P/D condition thief also has the worst escapes and worst utility of any of the viable thief sets.

How in the world did you both fail to kill him AND allow him to stack enough bleeds to actually be dangerous.

Haltair.3062:

Great. Another stealth thread.

Random QQ =/= Rational discussion. And this thread is by far the second (at least the OP).

I’m the first one to think that ppl whine too much on Thieves because they do what they’re designed to – like, gank run scout and rule the 1vs1 scene – with useless arguments and w/o any knowledge of class.

But really, i doubt that serious thief players think that being able to spam a 5-7k + burst from stealth (no tell) even if the target is good and time properly a dodge/block/blind and keep spamming w/o punishment till the BS lands (potentially killing the target even if, as said, he predicted and countered the burst with evade/block/blind) is ok.

And on the more larger stealth issue: just dropping this here, from the time when LoL devs had to deal with stealth.
http://na.leagueoflegends.com/board/showthread.php?p=26754549

Ofc look over the different game (which has a astronomically better PvP, which is what we’re talking about) and take a look at arguments about stealth.

Like

Long-term stealth is a contentious mechanic. It’s really fun for the person using it to gank, but it absolutely blows for the player on the receiving end. Long-term stealth encourages hugging your tower all day long, with stealth detection such as Oracles or Vision Wards being the only viable counter-play option (we don’t even have a counterpaly option, except traps which i don’t think have a place in any real “Stealth issue” argument.), which is a binary and boring mechanic. Not fun.

It’s also proven near-impossible to balance these mechanics. Long-term stealth isn’t effective against high level players, because they know how to counter it, so it’s never something we’d see in pro-level play.

or

Eve’s passive is now Shadow Walk. From Level 1, Evelynn is stealthed, meaning she can only be seen by enemy champions within a relatively short range of her…That means Evelynn is still hard to pinpoint in terms of map position, and she retains the feel of roaming around and scouting out areas for her team.
However, opponents now have a small window of opportunity to react, since she becomes visible before she’s directly on top of them.

Think and discuss =/= NERFPLOXTHIEFOPQQ.

Straegen.2938:

Dual.8953:

You could have blocked CnD. Then he can’t Sneak Attack and all his other skills are weak as all heck. CnD’s a melee skill so it should be obvious when a ranged set is trying to use it. Also he can only CnD twice from full initiative. Maybe try kiting.

Except there are plenty of other ways to stealth such as smoke fields (D/P creates them at will), other creatures, blinding powder, shadows refuge, doors, siege, etc. It is also pretty easy to just wait out dodges then CnD. Going stealth is ridiculously easy for a thief and not much another player can do about it.

It would be extremely odd for a condition spec thief running P/D to have a D/P secondary.

If you fight the thief standing in mobs you are just asking for trouble, and not just because of CnD.

Smokefield access on P/D is limited to a util.

Shadow refuge is on a 60 second cd and is VERY vulnerable to knockbacks (insta revealed if you knock them out)

How often are you fighting a thief surrounded by your own siege?

If you are near a door he can CnD (aka enemy door to him) why are you fighting to the death outside of it?

CnD working on walls and doors was patched out previously but recently came back due to a patch it seems. Either way, I am sure it will be patched out once they know why it happens.

Straegen.2938:

Dual.8953:

You could have blocked CnD. Then he can’t Sneak Attack and all his other skills are weak as all heck. CnD’s a melee skill so it should be obvious when a ranged set is trying to use it. Also he can only CnD twice from full initiative. Maybe try kiting.

Except there are plenty of other ways to stealth such as smoke fields (D/P creates them at will), other creatures, blinding powder, shadows refuge, doors, siege, etc. It is also pretty easy to just wait out dodges then CnD. Going stealth is ridiculously easy for a thief and not much another player can do about it.

We’re talking Pistol/Dagger. Not the omni thief that has all builds at once.

Mattargul.9235:

Geiir.7603:

If the toon in any way could feel the backstab the thief should get revealed. This does not apply to blind since he simply missed the attack. So I do agree that block should trigger revealed.

“Blind = miss, so you stay stealthed” sounds logical, but in game terms it’s bad.

Classes with a CD mechanic will incur the CD when they “miss”. Thieves have their initiative as a CD mechanic, but BS is “free”, so they incur no CD penalty for missing. What’s supposed to limit BS is that you are revealed after it, but a miss doesn’t trigger this, so again no penalty. They can just keep on hacking away until they finally hit.

Imagine your rifle warrior would get a do-over on his kill shot, because he got blinded at the end of the channel.

Warriors that miss a burst skill keep their adrenaline, just like thieves keep their stealth

I Agree very much with you OP including those who aren’t in-denial.

Well as Always,
Multitude Reasonable Important posts/threads like this is thrown out in the trash due to Elitism of Favorite Stealth Thief class.

Obviously

Burnfall.9573:

I Agree very much with you OP including those who aren’t in-denial.

Well as Always,
Multitude Reasonable Important posts/threads like this is thrown out in the trash due to Elitism of Favorite Stealth Thief class.

Obviously

It pains me to think that thief will likely see more nerfs due to people like this.

Renxian.6982:

Burnfall.9573:

I Agree very much with you OP including those who aren’t in-denial.

Well as Always,
Multitude Reasonable Important posts/threads like this is thrown out in the trash due to Elitism of Favorite Stealth Thief class.

Obviously

It pains me to think that thief will likely see more nerfs due to people like this.

Sadly your probably right. Its due to Anet trying to nerf/buff things to balance the game when they should take the time to review and rework some mechanics. I’m not going to say Stealth is OP or not because I’v been on both sides of it and don’t have a problem with it but since it seems to be a major problem for the casual population anet should do something about it or officially come out and tell these players to get kitten.

Renxian

Once and for all,
Stealth is the Problem factor, not I.

As long Arena net plays Favoritism, nohing will happen to Thief Stealth; “due to classes like this”

As you already know,

The only Nerf-Rewarding class is the game is thief.

In other word, no need to worry, you’ll still be Invincible.

Yes, it should trigger revealed.

Burnfall.9573:

Renxian

Once and for all,
Stealth is the Problem factor, not I.

As long Arena net plays Favoritism, thing will happen to Thief Stealth; “due to classes like this”

No it really is you, and players like you.

I kill stealth heavy thieves constantly. I do it on my thief, I do it on my lvl 21 ranger, and I am confident I could do it on any other character I pickup. The fact that you and a small subset of very loud individuals cannot find it in yourselves to do anything other than give away loot bags and cry constantly about how you lost to a class specifically designed for the purpose of ambushing the unaware is not the class’s fault.

The fact that thief damage, mobility, deception come at a cost in utility and survivability is completely lost on you because you apparently insist on wandering around alone with a stab me sign on. Pretending to be a statue and engaging thieves solo in open field is playing to the strengths of the class.

Or do you play a boon stacking guardian and try to solo boon hate necros too?

Renxian.6982:

JaNordy.6149:

Renxian.6982:

JaNordy.6149:

Haltair.3062:

Great. Another stealth thread.
Could any moderator take a look on these repeated threads?

Best,

Haltair, one of the Twelve shadows

Ever stop and think, that there are so many thief threads because anet refuses to do anything about them? I recently dueled a condition thief, something you rarely see. When he would stealth he would do his rapid sneak attack stack ton of bleed move. I was able to block it several times. What was my reward for perfectly timing it? Him still being stealth to do it all over again instantly everytime with no revealed or initiative lost. Clearly working as intended…

Regards,

JaNordy – One of the 6 CAMP

Just throwing it out there, but a P/D condi thief has to cloak and dagger you to stealth, unless he blows utils. So unless your “Perfect Timing” involves you allowing him to poke you in the kitten with his dagger every 3-4 seconds, you probably aren’t being particularly honest with us.

So rather than argue about a design flaw I pointed out in game, you blindly resort to the “its you” post. My timing was indeed perfect for what I stated. You have no clue how long duel I had with this thief was. He did CnD me many times as we fought, he also missed many times as well. You have completely failed to make a point in what I stated about block and sneak attack. You can tell when someone has no argument when they state “you are not being honest” as their argument.

One love,

JaNordy- One of the 6 CAMP

My point, since you are missing it, is that you failed to dodge or block the important part of the combo, which you can see coming because he has to practically caress you to land it. It doesn’t matter how long you were fighting because attrition is the absolute worst way to kill anything and a condition thief is pretty much 100% attrition damage. Attrition damage takes so stupidly long to take anyone with health it still amazes me that people actually die to condi thieves. They can’t even condition load you, they are just stacking bleed.

P/D condition thief also has the worst escapes and worst utility of any of the viable thief sets.

How in the world did you both fail to kill him AND allow him to stack enough bleeds to actually be dangerous.

You still have not answered the stealth reveal I pointed out. All you talk about is how “bad” people must be to die to thiefs and CnD, ignoring the fact how many times it can be used in long fight. You wont ever dodge it all which ends up making “block CnD” a completely moot point and if anything points for an even harder nerf on that which you clearly wouldnt want. Guess it is too much to expect of someone basic comprehension. Unless you are a troll with seems likely as you cant read. I await your 3rd reply that will in no way address the stealth reveal issue I pointed out… again.

Alta Vista,.

JaNordy – One of 6 CaMP

The solution to thief stealth problem:

1) stop being noob

2) block/dodge every single attack 100% perfectly, even when thief is stealth

3) lie about killing thief in post to show you are pro

Me Gusta,

Chubbichaser – One of 2 big liars in this thread

Burnfall.9573:

As long Arena net plays Favoritism, nohing will happen to Thief Stealth; “due to classes like this”
.

With this kind of arguments I doubt about the reasons for allowing these kind of threads.
Yep, I belong to the “Invincible” guild, the brotherhood of thieves.

Best,

Haltair, one of the Twelve Shadows

Renxian

To begin with, without being in-denial, you have 1 Leap of Advantage above all classes combined- Stealth

2nd- Stealth has no counter whatsoever
Where is your claims of countering Perma:Stealth? I must’ve missed it.

Other than stealth, obviously other thiefs skills are “coutnerable”.. by any class.

Show me your evidence of a class “countering” Perma/Stealth thief..

I’m sure that would put my “noob” knowledge and others finally to rest.

(also please share your experience and knowledge of “how your low levels classes” killing thieves in the thief forums)"
I’m sure they would find that quite amazing.

98% of the guilds i belong to are Stealth Thieves.

Infact

98% of the commanders are thieves- (rarely dies)

(Well Obviously)

That says alot..

wouldn’t u think

(here’s a quick joke for u)
How many key spamming does it take to be a thief?

(Answer)
2
why more? lol

Burnfall.9573:

Renxian

To begin with, without being in-denial, you have 1 Leap of Advantage above all classes combined- Stealth

2nd- Stealth has no counter whatsoever
Where is your claims of countering Perma:Stealth? I must’ve missed it.

Other than stealth, obviously other thiefs skills are “coutnerable”.. by any class.

Show me your evidence of a class “countering” Perma/Stealth thief..

I’m sure that would put my “noob” knowledge and others finally to rest.

1- permastealth does not exist if attacking.
2- All the classes have particular skills. For instance, retaliation can not be avoided.
3- You can even use anti stealth traps.

Water fields could be OP, but they can not kill people…retaliation alone can kill a p/p thief, but who cares, and so on…
Thieves are not top class in duelling, they are a headache in pve dungeons and are forbidden in zerg MVM Of dedicated guilds.
Their role is to hit and dissapear, the only field in which they shine, preparing ambushes.
But obviously you do not like ambushes, or you do not know how to deal with them…

Best,

Haltair, one of the Twelve Shadows

Burnfall.9573:

Infact

98% of the commanders are thieves- (rarely dies)

(Well Obviously)

That says alot..

Indeed it said a lot about your credibility and now I can calmly sign you off as a troll. And don’t expect further replies, I do not converse with trolls, no matter how they bait.

Pavel.

What server are u on?

I challenge you to 1-3 sec quick deaths match by any of my commanders

How does 14k+ backstab sound?

As the saying goes, “one who labels and name calling, is as a blind man who tells you what color clothe you are wearing”

(I should’ve seen that beforehand)

Perma-stealthed thieves cannot do direct damage or they lose stealth. I fail to understand why everyone gets so upset about them.

Anyways, if you really want to be aggressive you can’t prevent a thief from perma-stealthing by standing in their blind field. Sounds stupid but if they hit you when they are trying to build up stealth they will get the revealed buff.

Shemsu.8721:

Mattargul.9235:

Geiir.7603:

If the toon in any way could feel the backstab the thief should get revealed. This does not apply to blind since he simply missed the attack. So I do agree that block should trigger revealed.

“Blind = miss, so you stay stealthed” sounds logical, but in game terms it’s bad.

Classes with a CD mechanic will incur the CD when they “miss”. Thieves have their initiative as a CD mechanic, but BS is “free”, so they incur no CD penalty for missing. What’s supposed to limit BS is that you are revealed after it, but a miss doesn’t trigger this, so again no penalty. They can just keep on hacking away until they finally hit.

Imagine your rifle warrior would get a do-over on his kill shot, because he got blinded at the end of the channel.

Warriors that miss a burst skill keep their adrenaline, just like thieves keep their stealth

That’s not an equal comparison. Warriors that miss a burst still go on CD. It might be fair if the thief’s stealth attack went on CD when it missed, or it cost initiative.

(Cross posting from another thread in warrior forums…)

The issue is that thieves can spam a 0-cost, high damage, no cool down skill until it is guaranteed to hit, all while remaining in stealth. Some part of that needs to change. So, we could either add a cost of stealth skills (4-5 initiative, depending on the skill), or we could add a cool down to stealth skills (5-10 seconds, gets reset when you reapply stealth), or you get revealed, as previously suggested. Those are the viable solutions I see so far.

That would bring the thief class a smidgen closer to balance.

NEVER! I need my class to carry me -just a summary of any thief player argument-.

Dual.8953:

We’re talking Pistol/Dagger. Not the omni thief that has all builds at once.

Missed the P/D portion but my original point stands… a thief in most cases has a stealth mechanic that cannot be dodged. It may be a smoke field, a critter, a door, siege, pet, clone, another enemy, guard, steal, utility skill, blah, blah, blah. Only thieves running very little stealth are going to struggle from a failed CnD.

Dual.8953:

You could have blocked CnD. Then he can’t Sneak Attack and all his other skills are weak as all heck. CnD’s a melee skill so it should be obvious when a ranged set is trying to use it. Also he can only CnD twice from full initiative. Maybe try kiting.

This… you had your chance to stop it once on the C&D… which also eats up a lot of ini if you prevent… why should you get 2 chances? If the C&D is stopped, then the recovery is stopped as well.

As far as D/P the field is a large ini drain. You can avoid the blind shot (it’s a long obvious animation) and stop them from completing the hearseeker. They are now pretty kittened and will need to retreat.

I agree about the random deer etc. Those need to go. Not just for this, but for rally reasons as well. Being able to do it off of a wall is a bug that they are trying to fix. That has nothing to do with C&D/attacks from stealth not revealing though…

Geiir.7603:

If the toon in any way could feel the backstab the thief should get revealed. This does not apply to blind since he simply missed the attack. So I do agree that block should trigger revealed.

Probably. And remove the Aegis. Although maybe I should think this through a little more, because it also automatically makes me think CnD should still grant stealth but the block stop the damage and vulnerability.

Definitely agree here.
If an attack was started and “hit” the opponent, no matter if it’s blocked, invuln or 0 damage, it should trigger the revealed.
As a comparison, aegis is lifted when hit, even if you were dodging or blocking …
Makes it totally unfair

Bear on the job.6273:

That is all. Carry on.

And you raise your shield in front of you, Backstab which clearly hits the back should simply go through block. Seems fair.

Aberrant.6749:

Dual.8953:

You could have blocked CnD. Then he can’t Sneak Attack and all his other skills are weak as all heck. CnD’s a melee skill so it should be obvious when a ranged set is trying to use it. Also he can only CnD twice from full initiative. Maybe try kiting.

This… you had your chance to stop it once on the C&D… which also eats up a lot of ini if you prevent… why should you get 2 chances? If the C&D is stopped, then the recovery is stopped as well.

As far as D/P the field is a large ini drain. You can avoid the blind shot (it’s a long obvious animation) and stop them from completing the hearseeker. They are now pretty kittened and will need to retreat.

I agree about the random deer etc. Those need to go. Not just for this, but for rally reasons as well. Being able to do it off of a wall is a bug that they are trying to fix. That has nothing to do with C&D/attacks from stealth not revealing though…

It is incredibly easy as a Thief to stealth and most means dont even require hitting anyone. Infact only CnD requires you to hit someone to get Stealth. And just because ONE SINGLE ability might actually fail to stealth if it is evaded, you shouldnt be revealed by a failed attack from Stealth?

You are burning through Block charges and Aegis. Aswell as Blind untill you actually land the hit you need. Thats silly.
Why should you be able to break through defenses that rely on limited charges by just spamming an attack without actually suffering any of the drawbacks from it?

Well you DO proc confusion when you spam backstab to break through limited charge defense :p So it’s not actually free of drawbacks.

Does retaliation proc on blocks too?

stof.9341:

Well you DO proc confusion when you spam backstab to break through limited charge defense :p

Confusion that has been halved in dmg to the point of being completely meaningless in terms of punishment.

Just saying.

Stealth should trigger revealed
Breathe should trigger revealed
Think to attack someone should trigger revealed
Entering WvW should trigger revealed
please go on with the list…

JaNordy.6149:

Renxian.6982:

JaNordy.6149:

Renxian.6982:

JaNordy.6149:

Haltair.3062:

Great. Another stealth thread.
Could any moderator take a look on these repeated threads?

Best,

Haltair, one of the Twelve shadows

Ever stop and think, that there are so many thief threads because anet refuses to do anything about them? I recently dueled a condition thief, something you rarely see. When he would stealth he would do his rapid sneak attack stack ton of bleed move. I was able to block it several times. What was my reward for perfectly timing it? Him still being stealth to do it all over again instantly everytime with no revealed or initiative lost. Clearly working as intended…

Regards,

JaNordy – One of the 6 CAMP

Just throwing it out there, but a P/D condi thief has to cloak and dagger you to stealth, unless he blows utils. So unless your “Perfect Timing” involves you allowing him to poke you in the kitten with his dagger every 3-4 seconds, you probably aren’t being particularly honest with us.

So rather than argue about a design flaw I pointed out in game, you blindly resort to the “its you” post. My timing was indeed perfect for what I stated. You have no clue how long duel I had with this thief was. He did CnD me many times as we fought, he also missed many times as well. You have completely failed to make a point in what I stated about block and sneak attack. You can tell when someone has no argument when they state “you are not being honest” as their argument.

One love,

JaNordy- One of the 6 CAMP

My point, since you are missing it, is that you failed to dodge or block the important part of the combo, which you can see coming because he has to practically caress you to land it. It doesn’t matter how long you were fighting because attrition is the absolute worst way to kill anything and a condition thief is pretty much 100% attrition damage. Attrition damage takes so stupidly long to take anyone with health it still amazes me that people actually die to condi thieves. They can’t even condition load you, they are just stacking bleed.

P/D condition thief also has the worst escapes and worst utility of any of the viable thief sets.

How in the world did you both fail to kill him AND allow him to stack enough bleeds to actually be dangerous.

You still have not answered the stealth reveal I pointed out. All you talk about is how “bad” people must be to die to thiefs and CnD, ignoring the fact how many times it can be used in long fight. You wont ever dodge it all which ends up making “block CnD” a completely moot point and if anything points for an even harder nerf on that which you clearly wouldnt want. Guess it is too much to expect of someone basic comprehension. Unless you are a troll with seems likely as you cant read. I await your 3rd reply that will in no way address the stealth reveal issue I pointed out… again.

Alta Vista,.

JaNordy – One of 6 CaMP

I unfortunately cannot help you. I said much earlier in the thread that revealed on block wouldn’t offend me too much, assuming uptime on certain kind of blocks, especially aegis, was reduced. I’m happy that you feel you are somehow making a pro debate, but you should at least read everything I say.

Regardless, you wasted your blocks on an AA chain that has no CD instead of the initiative heavy stealth granting ability. Or apparently you were fighting standing in a field of mobs your own siege, and random doors.

This is why thieves get kitten y in threads like this, because people come and whine about dying to things that are often simply terrible decisions on their part. It seems the general consensus is that we are supposed to just roll over and die for you 100% of the time and if we don’t we must need a nerf.