Guild Wars 2

“Borderlands Bloodlust has been changed:
One stack provides +30 points to power, precision, toughness, vitality, healing power, and condition damage as well as 1 War Score per player killed via a finisher.

Two stacks provides a total of +50 points to power, precision, toughness, vitality, healing power, and condition damage as well as 1 War Score per player killed via a finisher.

Three stacks provides a total of +60 points to power, precision, toughness, vitality, healing power, and condition damage as well as 1 War Score per player killed via a finisher."

Guess they listened to the community a tad? Thoughts?

Stat nerf is unnecessary and a cave to whiners, but the stomp change is a welcome one.

Arkanfel.8403:

Stat nerf is unnecessary and a cave to whiners, but the stomp change is a welcome one.

Only bad players wanted the stats to remain.
those that want to get better at this game do not want to have an unfair advantage over our opponents.

they should have removed the stat bonus all together.

Now you have to have 3 or just one 2 does not really benefit you as much

one thing i don’t understand…why did they go 30,50,60? why not just 20,40,60? My ocd is kicking in big time on this lol

UrMom.4205:

one thing i don’t understand…why did they go 30,50,60? why not just 20,40,60? My ocd is kicking in big time on this lol

It’s now a logarithmic curve instead of a linear one. In other words the first buffs grant more points.

They should really just rework it to provide a more meaningful and interesting bonus.

Something that makes me feel like “I just did that for my realm hell yeah”. Stat boosts just don’t do it.

+30 then +20 then +10 – does it make sense to your OCD now?

Daze.6914:

UrMom.4205:

one thing i don’t understand…why did they go 30,50,60? why not just 20,40,60? My ocd is kicking in big time on this lol

It’s now a logarithmic curve instead of a linear one. In other words the first buffs grant more points.

Yep. 30 points for one, 20 points for two, and 10 points for three.

This is surprisingly well thought out. With this and the announcement of a GvG arena, a little bit of my faith has been restored in Anet. Kudos.

Didn’t nerf it enough. Try again devs.

Hint: There’s only one correct answer. Zero stat buffs.

UrMom.4205:

one thing i don’t understand…why did they go 30,50,60? why not just 20,40,60? My ocd is kicking in big time on this lol

diminishing returns. you get +30 for the first one, an additional +20 for the second one, and an additional +10 for the last one.

-ken

Arkanfel.8403:

Stat nerf is unnecessary and a cave to whiners, but the stomp change is a welcome one.

I note with a wry smile your server.

I don’t really care about the stats, I’ve killed people with 3 orbs and I’ve been killed by people with no orbs, the stats are what ever. The 3 points for stomping was what made the orbs a must for any server that wanted to win. I don’t quite agree with it being nerfed to 1 point regardless, well see I guess, were stuck with it for 7 weeks…

Wait, I don’t get it. So regardless of how many ruins you hold you only get 1 point per stomp now? And there is less reason to hold more than one because the stats jump isn’t that great. In my view that just means make sure you hold one, who cares about anything else – we will all just make sure we hold the one in our own BL?

Yeah I feel ANET somehow over nerfed the bloodlust, without the ppt on stomp for each bloodlust hold, there are far less incentive to fight over the bloodlust now, especially since they don’t give reward anyway.

ViRuE.3612:

Wait, I don’t get it. So regardless of how many ruins you hold you only get 1 point per stomp now? And there is less reason to hold more than one because the stats jump isn’t that great. In my view that just means make sure you hold one, who cares about anything else – we will all just make sure we hold the one in our own BL?

Its debatable based off your population. If its even numbers in a even match, it may be smart to still deny others of there 1 possible point per stomp. But it may not be important enough to go out of your way if you already have one.

ViRuE.3612:

Wait, I don’t get it. So regardless of how many ruins you hold you only get 1 point per stomp now? And there is less reason to hold more than one because the stats jump isn’t that great. In my view that just means make sure you hold one, who cares about anything else – we will all just make sure we hold the one in our own BL?

That’s assuming you have enough people to actually hold anything in your BL.

The difference in WvW populations from top of each league to bottom of each league are so great that you will rarely see one buff for each server.

Solstice.1097:

+30 then +20 then +10 – does it make sense to your OCD now?

well now that it has been presented in this way yes…ocd feels much better now lol

Reslinal.2359:

Yeah I feel ANET somehow over nerfed the bloodlust, without the ppt on stomp for each bloodlust hold, there are far less incentive to fight over the bloodlust now, especially since they don’t give reward anyway.

Thats what I was thinking. Over-nerfed is the word for it. On busy servers I find them pretty much pointless anyway – even 150 stat boost means nothing if you are outnumbered 2-1 and with no rewards from ruins it largely makes them worthless to most players.

You forgot that taking the bloodlust from one server makes the boost difference between you and them a whopping 50 points.

So, if everyone has the buff, everyone is on the same ground. If one server nicks the buff, it has the advantage of 50 points towards that server because they gained extra 20 points and the other server lost 30 points.

This is a welcome nerf to the buff in my opinion. It still has meaning to hold the bloodlust to your server, but doesn’t offer that much of a stat point difference. I think this bloodlust looks pretty balanced on the paper now. We will see in time how much people pay attention for it though.

Yeah its a lot better than it was before

Sorry guys, but you got this totally backwards. The trait bonuses were nice, but we fight to win. We fight for points. The fact that there is no point difference between 1 orb and 3 means we will not care about them. There is almost no benefit from trying to obtain and maintain 3 orbs for an extra 30 stat points. 1 orb will be fine and that will be all we care about.

ITS ABOUT WINNING. STOMPS WIN, NOT EXTRA STATS.

These changes are good, nice work Arena Net. Gave us something workable.

Spurnshadow.3678:

ITS ABOUT WINNING. STOMPS WIN, NOT EXTRA STATS.

the point difference between 1 orb and 3 is:

1 orb – you get a point per stomp
3 orbs – you get a point per stomp and NO OTHER SERVER DOES

why do I still see stat buffs I should not be seeing stat buffs

this game is about DENYING points as much as it is obtaining them.

when will people figure that out?

If you’ve done this because all the lower population servers kittening and complaining, then fix the population issue.

I understand it’s about point denial, but in the past, we had to make tough decisions about whether to sacrifice structures for fights. Decide when is the good time to stomp in the middle of a battle. Now, structures will regain their point value and we will go back to the strategy of prioritizing structures than fights. Previously, the orb buff from stomps got us out of the structures and into the field.

Spurnshadow.3678:

Previously, the orb buff from stomps got us out of the structures and into the field.

People just ran away because of of the triple-stomp orb buff.

halfway into the week in T1 NA over 50,000 of the total points are from stomps.

i think that’s too many.

I’m fine with stomps = points. GJ ANet on correcting this mess to a degree.

Solstice.1097:

halfway into the week in T1 NA over 50,000 of the total points are from stomps.

i think that’s too many.

Active scoring is more compelling game play than passive PPT from towers/keeps. If bloodlust was bad for unbalanced matches it should have been removed completely, since even in nerf form is still not an advantage for servers that can’t field competitive populations during prime time.

Leagues should be on perma hold till match balance is resolved. There’s no point in a competitive system having predetermined winners. then again maybe Anet is mirroring our political system, buy your wins with gems to mega stack a server for no competition GG.

Johje Holan.4607:

Didn’t nerf it enough. Try again devs.

Hint: There’s only one correct answer. Zero stat buffs.

Anet is stubborn as a mule. I doubt they will ever remove the buffs.

Solstice.1097:

halfway into the week in T1 NA over 50,000 of the total points are from stomps.

i think that’s too many.

Did you account for dolyaks as well? Because it’s practically impossible to know how many points are added by stomps unless you run numbers from pre-orb and post-orb match-ups between the same servers.

Feed Me Change.6528:

Solstice.1097:

halfway into the week in T1 NA over 50,000 of the total points are from stomps.

i think that’s too many.

Did you account for dolyaks as well? Because it’s practically impossible to know how many points are added by stomps unless you run numbers from pre-orb and post-orb match-ups between the same servers.

Actually my estimates are too low.

So far there have been 258540 possible points from structures at this point in the match.

total points T1 match are 412,204 so roughly 150,000 total points are from dolyaks, sentries, and stomps….. so far.

Great job with the update Anet, will people not be happy with anything gosh.
I recommend these people who are complaining about the nerf to go to a server which will be severely outmanned for 7 weeks in the league and continue to say that bloodlust was fine as it was.

Solstice.1097:

Feed Me Change.6528:

Solstice.1097:

halfway into the week in T1 NA over 50,000 of the total points are from stomps.

i think that’s too many.

Did you account for dolyaks as well? Because it’s practically impossible to know how many points are added by stomps unless you run numbers from pre-orb and post-orb match-ups between the same servers.

Actually my estimates are too low.

So far there have been 258540 possible points from structures at this point in the match.

total points T1 match are 412,204 so roughly 150,000 total points are from dolyaks, sentries, and stomps….. so far.

You also have to understand that the T1 servers have been adapting to the points not from tick quite well. There has been many more open field fights in NA (I can’t speak for OCE/SEA/EU) Also with the large influx of transfers there has been a lot more people in WvW around the clock. A lot of commanders have been securing there corner of the map and then go looking for fights. Or just siege something to draw fights.

The 3 possible points per stomp was a great change for T1. It drew out much more fights from all sides. It gave smaller guilds that don’t want to zerg something more to do than flip camps (though this doesn’t really change to a degree)

I think the change was more for lower tiers, which I understand and thats fine, its anets game and they do what they think is right but imo the orbs (stats aside) were good for T1 WvW.

Quickly on the stats, I could care less either way, stats or no stats. Points not from tick was a great idea.

Points not from tick is good but in a competitive match I more often than not see all 3 servers with 1 buff each, and only occasionally and short periods of time do I see 2 or 3 buffs up – however 2 or 3 buffs is much more common in a blowout match.

So… now there appears to be no point to hold more than 1 stack of BL. We never held it for the stats but for the points per spike.

Solstice.1097:

Points not from tick is good but in a competitive match I more often than not see all 3 servers with 1 buff each, and only occasionally and short periods of time do I see 2 or 3 buffs up – however 2 or 3 buffs is much more common in a blowout match.

I can only comment on T1 since I don’t follow the other tiers but Blackgate does a very good job holding 2-3 orbs in NA prime, the most even time zone as far as coverage gos. And JQ and SoR did a very good job of doing the same in different time zones. Even TC rocks out 2 every once in a while.

Personally I think it was really good for the competitiveness of the tier. It made making a choice between defending your tower/keep or maintaining the buff. Obviously in most cases you would save/defend the tower/keep but you had to make a choice. Would you get more points having 3 orbs and losing the keep or 2 orbs and saving the keep? Even if you were going to lose the keep, if you had 3 orbs, could you bunker up enough to spike enough people to make up for it? It brought more to the table.

Now if you have at least 1 orb at all times it means that by taking another all your doing is denying 1 possible point per stomp from the other team. At no point will that ever make someone have to choose what is more important. Its now the towers and keeps, just like before the buff.

A semi solution to an artificially manufactured self created problem, too little too late. Dont care.

Reducing the stats from the buff is great, we all know that. It’s a good thing, though why they didn’t go the whole hog and completely remove the stats from the buff kind of confuses me.
Reducing the points-per-stomp is an interesting change, and I’m not sure yet whether it’s good or bad. It may simply end up being the de facto that you don’t really bother with more than one Bloodlust, so…

Why not get rid of Bloodlust completely and just bake the point-per-stomp into the system so you always get a point when you stomp someone? While the fights are fairer(always a good thing, don’t get me wrong), the change seems to have pushed Bloodlust into “nobody cares” territory.

I’m somewhat skeptical that, with the current implementation, it will be possible to find an area between “nobody cares” and “too strong”. I think it might be worth looking into creating an alternate benefit to capturing the 3 ruins than Bloodlust.

It’s better, but still don’t get why its so hard for them to give a non stat bonus.

50% Magic Find, Increased Exp, Karma, obviously the stomp pts, that would be enough.

Timeline:
- No one asked for bloodlust, or ever suggested anything like it
- Bloodlust is announced, people say NO
- Bloodlust comes in and gets played around with, people still say NO
- People keep saying NO!
- Bloodlust gets reworked, 60% reduction.

In the future, the next big patch:
- Bloodlust has been removed

Yay! Finally.

I would much rather given up on the stat boost completely and had the point per stomp stay the way it was.

People ran because they didn’t think they could win when the other side had more than one orb than them. At least with having no stat bonus but still point per stomp wouldn’t make them as frightened. Not saying it won’t get servers to stop running, just wouldn’t make them as scared.

Points per stomp is incentive to get people to get out from behind the doors and learn how to open field fight. I don’t mind a good siege but it is nice when the other server can also offer open field engagements that are fun.

Knote.2904:

They should really just rework it to provide a more meaningful and interesting bonus.

Something that makes me feel like “I just did that for my realm hell yeah”. Stat boosts just don’t do it.

Yep the stats boost is relatively minor now and not worth getting. They have been told thousands of times by now to make the bonus something better but nothing happens.

Le Rooster.8715:

Great job with the update Anet, will people not be happy with anything gosh.
I recommend these people who are complaining about the nerf to go to a server which will be severely outmanned for 7 weeks in the league and continue to say that bloodlust was fine as it was.

If your server is outmanned, then THAT IS THE ISSUE, NOT BLOODLUST. You should be beseeching Anet to fix population issues. If you’re server is in a very unbalanced match, then IT DOESN’T MATTER THAT BLOODLUST GIVES 1 POINT OR 3. You are going to loose. Transfer servers, or blow up the forums asking them to come up with a solution for population balance. Screwing up bloodlust for even population server matches is not how you fix things.

Spurnshadow.3678:

If your server is outmanned, then THAT IS THE ISSUE, NOT BLOODLUST. You should be beseeching Anet to fix population issues. If you’re server is in a very unbalanced match, then IT DOESN’T MATTER THAT BLOODLUST GIVES 1 POINT OR 3. You are going to loose. Transfer servers, or blow up the forums asking them to come up with a solution for population balance. Screwing up bloodlust for even population server matches is not how you fix things.

Wow, bloodlust has flown so far over your head it boggles the mind how that ever happened.

It also gives a boost to raw stats. Do you understand?

If you’re already losing due to numbers (Are you following?)
and those bigger numbers also have a stat increase (Still following?)
it makes fighting impossible. Do you understand?

The enemy that is already winning due to having more players (stacked, fair weather) does not need to have a stat boost.

Bloodlust has a negative impact on wvw. Do you understand?

Have No Faith In Me.1840:

Spurnshadow.3678:

If your server is outmanned, then THAT IS THE ISSUE, NOT BLOODLUST. You should be beseeching Anet to fix population issues. If you’re server is in a very unbalanced match, then IT DOESN’T MATTER THAT BLOODLUST GIVES 1 POINT OR 3. You are going to loose. Transfer servers, or blow up the forums asking them to come up with a solution for population balance. Screwing up bloodlust for even population server matches is not how you fix things.

Wow, bloodlust has flown so far over your head it boggles the mind how that ever happened.

It also gives a boost to raw stats. Do you understand?

If you’re already losing due to numbers (Are you following?)
and those bigger numbers also have a stat increase (Still following?)
it makes fighting impossible. Do you understand?

The enemy that is already winning due to having more players (stacked, fair weather) does not need to have a stat boost.

Bloodlust has a negative impact on wvw. Do you understand?

Hi poor name choice, I see you’re quite mad over someone not agreeing with you, that’s ok, its the internet after all…

If you would like to take the time to read the thread or the other Pro bloodlust thread you may come to the conclusion that no one cares about the stats. The whole argument is about points for stomps…for the most part everyone is in agreement that there shouldn’t even be a stat bonus on bloodlust…

The point is points for stomps (I put it in bold so you don’t get confused and think I’m talking about the stats) was a great, fun, refreshing change to WvW. It made balanced match ups even better, it was proactive in countering PvD time zones. It gave roamers and small man groups something else to do to be effective and make a difference in WvW, while doing what they are there to do, kill people…

If your getting blown out in a match, point for stomps or not it won’t matter…You’re going to get smashed. Population issues need to be addressed by the WvW team or anet for that matter but that still doesn’t change the fact that bloodlust (stats aside) was a great addition to WvW.