Guild Wars 2

Boon Removal Trap
This traps removes every buff from enemies when activated. Unable to buff for the next 15 seconds. Costs 10 supply to deploy.

So I was thinking we still need more traps I once saw a golem thing few months ago, my proposal is to punish blobs frontline with this kind of traps, we usually see big blobs being able to push all the way thanks to stability, somehow this could easily deal with that, what do you think? Obviously it will be capped to a # of enemies.

And yes I know the consumable already exists, I’m just suggesting its effect.

http://www.gw2db.com/items/75323-boon-removal-trap

It won’t punish zergs, it will only change the hammer train meta a bit. Not saying thats a bad thing. Its just confusing to see all these suggestions to “stop” zergs yet none of them will work because of 1 thing, “safety in numbers” As long as anet allows for a large number of people in one area, there will always be a zerg, even if you make it more efficient to run more small groups. People will always flock to the tag and create a zerg, its the way the game mode is setup.

I just don’t understand. WvW fighting is meant to promote zerg fights because that’s the type of PvP it is. If you want small scale, they have sPvP and an area to set up GvG. The options are there for people who don’t want to fight in a conquest/army style setting.

Aeonblade.8709:

I just don’t understand. WvW fighting is meant to promote zerg fights because that’s the type of PvP it is. If you want small scale, they have sPvP and an area to set up GvG. The options are there for people who don’t want to fight in a conquest/army style setting.

some of us prefer fighting in smaller scales, where you can actually use classes other than guardians, warriors, eles and necros and where skill is more than yealling stack and regrouping for water blasts . we also enjoy the challenge of fighting bigger numbers but in this game, bigger numbers have all the advantages and no downsides.

I’m pretty sure this kind of traps will cause a mess in any zerg, having a few casualties is all what you need to make a zerg pull off, I’ve seen it before & the 15sec penalty will make you think twice before stacking might & wasting all your stability skills.

I got nothing against big blobs thought! but I really think there should be ways to spoil game modes in WvW, like stealth traps which usually comes down to a single thief… or a golem trap for golem rushes.

Art.9820:

I’m pretty sure this kind of traps will cause a mess in any zerg, having a few casualties is all what you need to make a zerg pull off, I’ve seen it before & the 15sec penalty will make you think twice before stacking might & wasting all your stability skills.

I got nothing against big blobs thought! but I really think there should be ways to spoil game modes in WvW, like stealth traps which usually comes down to a single thief… or a golem trap for golem rushes.

Exactly my point, all this would do is change the meta. Zergs would still exists and would only have to adapt to the new trap. It would put a lot more emphasis on stronger back lines that don’t push and slow down the over all momentum of fights.

I’m not disagreeing with the idea of the trap but I feel wiping “ALL” boons and the 15 second timer would make this way to over powered. Fights would just come down to who can use this trap faster and better.

Zikory.6871:

Fights would just come down to who can use this trap faster and better.

Keep in mind that this comes down to GvG fights & to be honest that depends on who is smarter when using it, but it will be a huge incentive for pug zergs when facing guilds, not every server out there is built in WvW guilds.

+ Knowing how egocentric & “honorable” WvW guilds can be… I doubt they will use it too often lol.

Art.9820:

Zikory.6871:

Fights would just come down to who can use this trap faster and better.

Keep in mind that this comes down to GvG fights & to be honest that depends on who is smarter when using it, but it will be a huge incentive for pug zergs when facing guilds, not every server out there is built in WvW guilds.

Not at all, I don’t always run with my guild. If this trap existed, I would bring my thief out of retirement and trap bomb for any group I follow, guilded or not. If its as a effective as it sounds, I know I wouldn’t be the only person doing this. Same with how the supply trap is used now, just more offensively.

For Pugs vs guilded groups, the pug zerg is already at a huge disadvantage so this trap would make it even harder for them. On the assumption that the guilded group is much more coordinated, it more likely that they will effectively line up there pushes with this trap better than the pug group.

EDIT: To your edit: You’d be wrong, Its considered by a lot of guilds that open field siege is cheap yet a lot of guilds do it. If something is strong and other will use it, your only crippling your self by not using it. This would be abused…

What his idea is missing is to make it set off by a weight limit.

This trap has a large effective area and will activate when 20+ enemies are inside the area. Rather than strip boons I would suggest a large AoE immobilize, vulnerability, confusion, and every 3 seconds a 1 second daze until you get out of the circle (which would become visible once it went off).

and smaller versions of the trap (5 man, 10 man) or even bigger versions may be available, priced accordingly. A small trap could defend camps vs roaming groups whereas a large, expensive trap might only be set off by 40 players but would have a huge AoE.

The boon removal trap will have no more of an effect than well of corruption or nullfield to a zerg. In some cases, it can be pivotal or an easily overcome nuisance in most other cases. The idea blows in my opinion and amounts to a further waste of supply, but yeah, Anet always listens to the minority, not the majority, so….. =.=

Some zergs don’t run boons

Suggestions like this would have no impact on the blobs. If you have 50+ people you don’t exactly need great boon coverage to push in on a group. As with most suggestions of this sort, it would really just punish organized groups which go up against greater numbers constantly. You are taking away something that gives an organized group an advantage over blobs and claiming it would limit the effectiveness of the blob.

Aeonblade.8709:

I just don’t understand. WvW fighting is meant to promote zerg fights because that’s the type of PvP it is. If you want small scale, they have sPvP and an area to set up GvG. The options are there for people who don’t want to fight in a conquest/army style setting.

Short and spot-on.

You can’t stop a server from rallying all players on a map, or giving a shout-out in LA for extras, etc., and running in large groups.

As far as the skills go (most are complaining about warrior stuns atm), every time there is a skill update there will be adaptations to how zergs move.

Simply put, it is what it is, adapt or don’t wvw.

Open World PVP in EVERY GAME is about zergs. I use the term lightly because zerg has earned a bad name. I think a typical zerg is an uncoordinated group who lacks the discipline to maintain their mass properly. Many guilds can field 40-50 players every evening and dominate – not just because of numbers, but because of the skill and coordination of the leadership leading the zerg.

You are a fool to not maximize your success by only bringing the best classes for large scale operations.

Zerging will always exist in every open world pvp game or wvw game. Get use to it or go find a different type of game (like team arenas in certain games that allow 10-20 players per team).

What this game really needs is traps that only activate to groups of x+ players. This reduces the zerg mentality of grouping on a single commander and forces a different type of play style. Combat will still be zerg oriented, but traps that activate when x players are near it will force zergs to move differently.

Cow supply trebs already favour anti-zerg ‘balling’ (to borrow another term from starcraft).

There are easier way to deal with zergs…one way would be to have movement become slower as the numbers of a zerg increase.

Another way would be to turn on collision …having 25 people run through a doorway is crazy…two at a time (maybe three) would make defending very fun and attacking harder.

Turning on friendly fire would be another way…that GS warrior swing wildly next to you would suck…same thing with that Elementalist Meteor Shower.

Changing the revive mechanism making it more challenging to revive downed players

Turn off limitations for AoE…everyone in the AoE should be impacted, not just a limited number.

I still think the best way to deal with zergs is larger maps

reduced ability to use waypoints would help as well. (limit 10 players per minute or something besides spawn). combine that with players having an unrevivable state for 2-3 minutes after dying, and no reviving dead players in combat, and we’d have the ability for smaller groups to start whittling away at zergs.

People I’m not looking a way to remove zergs from WvW, they’re part of it my point is that a trap with this kind of functionality could help to deal easier against them, every server will QQ whether if they get owned by ACs or getting zerged

How it works its up to anet but I see a promising trap.

Solstice.1097:

What his idea is missing is to make it set off by a weight limit.

This trap has a large effective area and will activate when 20+ enemies are inside the area. Rather than strip boons I would suggest a large AoE immobilize, vulnerability, confusion, and every 3 seconds a 1 second daze until you get out of the circle (which would become visible once it went off).

I like this idea but instead of the debuffs have the trap port the hole blob back to their spawn portal.

Art.9820:

Boon Removal Trap
This traps removes every buff from enemies when activated. Unable to buff for the next 15 seconds. Costs 10 supply to deploy.

So I was thinking we still need more traps I once saw a golem thing few months ago, my proposal is to punish blobs frontline with this kind of traps, we usually see big blobs being able to push all the way thanks to stability, somehow this could easily deal with that, what do you think? Obviously it will be capped to a # of enemies.

And yes I know the consumable already exists, I’m just suggesting its effect.

http://www.gw2db.com/items/75323-boon-removal-trap

Perhaps consider who would be impacted more:

An entire group of 20 people or less (assuming a numbers cap of 20)

20 people in a 50+ man blob

See the problem?

Helly.2597:

Suggestions like this would have no impact on the blobs. If you have 50+ people you don’t exactly need great boon coverage to push in on a group. As with most suggestions of this sort, it would really just punish organized groups which go up against greater numbers constantly. You are taking away something that gives an organized group an advantage over blobs and claiming it would limit the effectiveness of the blob.

Rofl… I was just about to post this and use Agg as an example, but yeah. +1

Supply traps slow down a zerg. It seems people forget these exist.

Maskaganda.2043:

Aeonblade.8709:

I just don’t understand. WvW fighting is meant to promote zerg fights because that’s the type of PvP it is. If you want small scale, they have sPvP and an area to set up GvG. The options are there for people who don’t want to fight in a conquest/army style setting.

some of us prefer fighting in smaller scales, where you can actually use classes other than guardians, warriors, eles and necros and where skill is more than yealling stack and regrouping for water blasts . we also enjoy the challenge of fighting bigger numbers but in this game, bigger numbers have all the advantages and no downsides.

So basically you want to fight big numbers with small numbers and win, but not wit ha challenge, because you continually ask to make changes to give yourself an advantage over the bigger numbers or to “punish” them. I always thought the -challenge- part of the -zerg breaker- group is using what you have to beat the larger numbers. Not that I will complain if there are more options for me, but you aren’t really challenging yourself when you keep asking devs to even out the fight for you to make it fair. It’s actually making it less challenging because your guild is incappable of doing what you claim you love to do.

Keiel.7489:

Maskaganda.2043:

Aeonblade.8709:

I just don’t understand. WvW fighting is meant to promote zerg fights because that’s the type of PvP it is. If you want small scale, they have sPvP and an area to set up GvG. The options are there for people who don’t want to fight in a conquest/army style setting.

some of us prefer fighting in smaller scales, where you can actually use classes other than guardians, warriors, eles and necros and where skill is more than yelling stack and regrouping for water blasts . we also enjoy the challenge of fighting bigger numbers but in this game, bigger numbers have all the advantages and no downsides.

So basically you want to fight big numbers with small numbers and win, but not wit ha challenge, because you continually ask to make changes to give yourself an advantage over the bigger numbers or to “punish” them. I always thought the -challenge- part of the -zerg breaker- group is using what you have to beat the larger numbers. Not that I will complain if there are more options for me, but you aren’t really challenging yourself when you keep asking devs to even out the fight for you to make it fair. It’s actually making it less challenging because your guild is incappable of doing what you claim you love to do.

I asked for nothing, you just speculated all by yourself for some reason. For me the problem is not mainly with the devs or the mechanics, but greatly with the players who prefer to run around in a big group fighting nothing but doors. At some point these players have to ask themselves why are they playing this game and wvw.

I challenge myself properly, but there’s limits to what kind of fights you can pull off, and when my 5 man group can’t find a fight that’s not against a 30 man group hoping from keep to keep, things get boring. We still try it, but there’s a reason you don’t see small groups anymore, it’s hard to keep yourself motivated and you rarely get good fights.

And it’s funny when I think about it, the part of the keep farmer train that sometimes fights us and dies horribly, the ones that are playing the game for the fights and not for champion loot or ppt, are the ones getting punished. The others who just run away to join their blob get properly rewarded with w/e it is they find rewarding in destroying doors.

I’d be for any blob reduction, though the radius should be smaller than a trap probably. With the debuff one that lingers per person, not area based.

What they really need to do is make forces simultaneously cap multiple points in the bigger structures to force splitting up and more comprehensible combat. Small scale skirmishing indeed allows for much better individual player skill, and choice (not one guy telling 30 what to do) as well as much more variety in fights.

One of the funnier things I saw recently was a garrison siege where the attacking force/guild could not understand any other way to fight than staying in their little buff stack, but the defenders were spread out on all levels of the garrison maybe 30 people, and the oblivious stack was hopeless to chase down all these spread about people, using their 30 to try and kill one a time, and they just could never do it before the waypoint would be reinforced over and over.

The optimal way to win a fight like that was to break off into several smaller groups that could kill out multiple areas much faster. But of course since the meta is all about stack and train, that thought never occurred to them. Nor would anyone have experience in fighting that different kind of battle. Eventually the stack just lost the fight to attrition.

But unfortunately, few objectives are setup where a spread strategy works for defense. And blob smashing into blob usually is enough to win the day.

Can blame lack of collision detection for most of this as to why a GW2 WvW castle storming resembles nothing like it would in reality.