Guild Wars 2

so borderland wp’s are pointless. they are ALWAYS contested at the “keeps” and serve no purpose. Has anybody heard if this is gonna change or is this just another extra goody we get for WvW?

It is really confusing, but by design meant to give attacking/defending server some advantage/disadvantage. :O

- If you are on your home bl and you own a side keep, the waypoint is always closed for you.
- If you are on an enemy bl and you own a side keep, the waypoint is open for you.

it’s a bit silly and frustrating…you would think the idea would be to allow your members a chance to move throughout the map to defend or attack ….this is a misplaced attempt at leveling the playing field.

I didn’t like it at first, but I think it’s probably for the best. There have been many matchups where a server got all three WPs and were basically unassailable for the rest of the week. This way, it’s possible to get a decent attack in. Not to mention, both servers have a huge incentive to hold that side keep now.

Sviel.7493:

I didn’t like it at first, but I think it’s probably for the best. There have been many matchups where a server got all three WPs and were basically unassailable for the rest of the week. This way, it’s possible to get a decent attack in. Not to mention, both servers have a huge incentive to hold that side keep now.

it was possible to get a decent attack in before. In fact, defending your home and attacking the enemy border was the entire point of WvW borderlands design.

With desert border, Anet threw all that out the window and redefined what your home border really is. And its not your home border anymore.

Your “home border” is now actually garrison on your home border, loosely the NW/NE tower (they are just not possible to defend in those locations), hills/SE tower on an enemy border and bay/SW tower on the other enemy border.

You have no real home border, its scattered across 3 maps. Its kitten.

Just take 1 keep on each map, then yo will have 3 WP… Use community guild to speak accross map and call for help when needed… Problem solved…
I miss the old BL with 1 team controlling all the map, but we can’t on this map. And to be honest, we have more activity when we play like this.

Sviel.7493:

I didn’t like it at first, but I think it’s probably for the best. There have been many matchups where a server got all three WPs and were basically unassailable for the rest of the week. This way, it’s possible to get a decent attack in. Not to mention, both servers have a huge incentive to hold that side keep now.

I always loved the challenge to take back an enemy waypoint on your home border. And always keeping an eye on the upgrades before the waypoint finally appeared. Oh and the fear that the enemy will use their keep as a golem factory. It was exciting. Now those keeps feel soulless.

volpenvieh.3201:

I always loved the challenge to take back an enemy waypoint on your home border

Not only was it a challenge, but you knew why it was there. You failed. Your server has failed its home border. A T3 waypoint take time and supplies. Maybe it was inevitable due to overwhelming enemies, but it doesnt matter. You didnt stop it. So now you want to take back your keep. And when you do, you have to defend it again to try to bring it to T3 and get that WP. The cycle goes on.

On desert border its like oh they took their keep and got a free WP, good for them now its almost impossible for us to take it back even at T0. GG. Its actually better to wait for T3 and cap it when they dont notice. No one logs in and go “OMG they have a waypoint in our home!”. Yeah numbnuts, they always had that.

I really love how they changed the WPs. Having them in the spawn tower was kinda` pointless. Now at least if you own your keep you get to attack the north side much quicker

Dawdler.8521:

now its almost impossible for us to take it back even at T0.

I don’t agree with that. T0 is easy to take because your siege eats through the walls/gate at a faster rate so you can withstand any counter-siege that is built much easier than if the keep is upgraded.

Lots of people, mostly when outnumbered, saw wp’s in their keeps as bad things.. There was no way they would ever get the keep back when the zerg just had to wait out a timer and spam wp before it expired.

Lost count of how many times things like that happened. You login to everything upgraded by the enemies. You form a small party to try to take it back only to bust down outter gate/wall and have the zerg waiting for you inside because all they did was spam the wp.

I’m still trying to get used to it myself though.

briggah.7910:

Lots of people, mostly when outnumbered, saw wp’s in their keeps as bad things.. There was no way they would ever get the keep back when the zerg just had to wait out a timer and spam wp before it expired.

Lost count of how many times things like that happened. You login to everything upgraded by the enemies. You form a small party to try to take it back only to bust down outter gate/wall and have the zerg waiting for you inside because all they did was spam the wp.

I’m still trying to get used to it myself though.

Which happened to me not once but 3 times, in our own border bay, when the keep was first T0 and then T1. The third time we had the lord down to 50% before 50+ peeps came portalling in to deal with about 10 of us.

I would say I can see what Anet was thinking with this, letting bay/hills be the “home” of enemy servers, but no. They moved the waypoints, remember? There is no thought behind it, no design choice.

Sich.7103:

Just take 1 keep on each map, then yo will have 3 WP… Use community guild to speak accross map and call for help when needed… Problem solved…
I miss the old BL with 1 team controlling all the map, but we can’t on this map. And to be honest, we have more activity when we play like this.

You have no WP because they are always contested. So basically get a zerg and your problem is solved??? The point of this new design was supposedly so that less people could defend a position. Well 0 is less…in lower tiers most keeps are empty. Getting to a keep under attack is a near impossibility. I stand by what I said. It was a misplaced attempt at leveling the playing field.

The WP are not always contested…. Where do you see that ?!?
You have 1 WP / map…. (+ the spawn).
And if you have to run from spawn to your keep it’s not that far… Except for T0 keep with fake wall/gate you have enough time to run…
And yes, I have defend keep with few people (2/3).

And if you have population issue, move from your lower tier to higer tier…. Stop playing on dead server, make yourself what Anet should do…. Merge population server….

I see three waypoints i should have per map? running from spawn to east and then west is an exercise in futility. Why are you even posting here. you offer nothing but a pointless argument. Move to another server? I moved down servers because i prefer the style of fighting here. I don’t have a population problem Anet does. It’s not even a population problem it’s a poor logistics issue. Bottom line is if they waypoints at the east and west sides are continually contested they offer nothing and should be removed. and if you are defending a keep with 2 or 3 people you are definitely in a low tier server. go troll somewhere else.

The side WP are for the other team !
Then if you go on ennemy BL you can use those WP ! At least one…
This mean that if you control your keep on each map you have the 3 keep WP… But not all on the same map. You have 3 WP on 3 map.
At the end it’s close that before, just that you have to forget the old way to play with 1team who control completly 1 map. Now it’s each team control 1 keep on each map. Something like EB, but the home team have a small advantage (1 more tower, keep easier to defend).

EB is designed as 1 WP per server true, but the keep and tower layout is completely different. Camps and towers act like a buffer to the keeps, giving the defenders easy scouting locations and makes them able to mount a defense. On top of that layer, SM act as a buffer toward each side.

On desert border, the home server has zero defense. There are no buffers. The NW/NE towers are useless for defending garrison, there is nothing else. Bay/hills are located much further apart than alpine and the central area contain nothing, which give the enemy a straight line to your garrison (metaphorically speaking, considering terrain).

So please dont compare it to EB. Its not even remotely similar.

Dawdler.8521:

On desert border, the home server has zero defense. There are no buffers.

Don’t you see? The new design gives an advantage to defenders. It is much more difficult to be the attacker (when defenders actually show up). The reward for capping a side keep is getting a waypoint. Defenders don’t need it because it is easier to hold off an attacking force. This is what players wanted: small number of defenders able to hold back ktrains.

there is no advantage to defenders if you are on other than your own map. Which is why BL’s are so dead. Nobody wants to run for an hour around a map that is mostly empty only to arrive and find that three people were able to take a keep while you tried to navigate your own keep to get to where it was damaged. Sich stay off my thread.

Rage.8197:

there is no advantage to defenders if you are on other than your own map. Which is why BL’s are so dead. Nobody wants to run for an hour around a map that is mostly empty only to arrive and find that three people were able to take a keep while you tried to navigate your own keep to get to where it was damaged. Sich stay off my thread.

Doesn’t take an hour to run across the map.. Maybe learn the map and get shrines to get 40% speed buff first before making excuses. Sometimes I think people just make stuff up and actually never even gave this map a try or gave up after the first attempt. I just started to play on this map. Its not too bad besides not many fights happen there. That’s due to players refusing to go there though. I did have to transfer though but at least now people are playing on the maps.

Funny people still use the words “nobody” and “everyone” just because they choose to not do something they think “everyone” else does the same thing.

The layout of the original maps was right. Each server had their home borderlands and we all had an equal footing on a central map we could fight over. Home borderlands should be easy to defend (and therefore much harder to conquer). This is fair because it’s the same for each server. I’m not the only person who remembers the ebb and flow of colour in EB while my home BL was defended and kept the “right” colour by the efforts of a number of dedicated home BL players.

The new WP layout changes all this dramatically. We now have 4 EB style setups. This has alienated many who enjoyed defending their home BL and spreads those who seek the ebb and flow of battle across 4 maps. This is a quite a shift in philosophy and I don’t like the fact it effectively removed a play style that I know some people enjoyed.

Having a WP on each home BL is not the same at all. Any players who want to defend are now spread across three maps instead of being concentrated on one. I know TeamSpeak spans map boundaries but map chat doesn’t, and it’s not uncommon for TS to have separate channels for different maps anyway.

Before the new waypoint changes you knew a home borderlands would be defended (with extreme prejudice) and if you did manage to take a foothold and even get a WP in a T3 keep it really felt like an achievement.

My home BL should belong to my server. It does not have to be equally accessible to my opponents – they have their own. The waypoints in my home BL should be mine and give me faster access around my home map. If you can take them from me then you’re doing well and deserve them.

In short, I believe the changes to WP ownership has turned the borderlands into EBmk2. This has adversely affected a number of players and the way the map is played. No-one should have an automatic right to a WP in my home – they should earn this by conquest (which is what WvW is about anyway).

Doesn’t take an hour to run across the map.. Maybe learn the map and get shrines to get 40% speed buff first before making excuses. Sometimes I think people just make stuff up and actually never even gave this map a try or gave up after the first attempt. I just started to play on this map. Its not too bad besides not many fights happen there. That’s due to players refusing to go there though. I did have to transfer though but at least now people are playing on the maps.

Funny people still use the words “nobody” and “everyone” just because they choose to not do something they think “everyone” else does the same thing.[/quote]

Funny that you presume to know how much I know about the new map.

Wow… “Its not too bad besides not many fights happen there. That’s due to players refusing to go there though”

So the new WvW map is not bad except for the lack of WvWing going on? Brilliant

I’ve learned enough of the new map to know it’s not really set up for much beyond nice to look at. If offers very little in the way of strategic benefit. It’s confusing even for those who play it a good deal. We’ve had commanders needing to take time to stop and check the map to make sure they are actually traveling the right way. the amount of time needed to navigate the entire map would depend on how many towers/keeps you are trying to defend so I suppose an hour is not an extreme amount of time if you are forced to stop a number of times trying to figure out where the breach is and repair it. oh wait unless i learn the map and get that speed boost…smh

Yuffi.2430:

The layout of the original maps was right. Each server had their home borderlands and we all had an equal footing on a central map we could fight over. Home borderlands should be easy to defend (and therefore much harder to conquer). This is fair because it’s the same for each server. I’m not the only person who remembers the ebb and flow of colour in EB while my home BL was defended and kept the “right” colour by the efforts of a number of dedicated home BL players.

The new WP layout changes all this dramatically. We now have 4 EB style setups. This has alienated many who enjoyed defending their home BL and spreads those who seek the ebb and flow of battle across 4 maps. This is a quite a shift in philosophy and I don’t like the fact it effectively removed a play style that I know some people enjoyed.

Having a WP on each home BL is not the same at all. Any players who want to defend are now spread across three maps instead of being concentrated on one. I know TeamSpeak spans map boundaries but map chat doesn’t, and it’s not uncommon for TS to have separate channels for different maps anyway.

Before the new waypoint changes you knew a home borderlands would be defended (with extreme prejudice) and if you did manage to take a foothold and even get a WP in a T3 keep it really felt like an achievement.

My home BL should belong to my server. It does not have to be equally accessible to my opponents – they have their own. The waypoints in my home BL should be mine and give me faster access around my home map. If you can take them from me then you’re doing well and deserve them.

In short, I believe the changes to WP ownership has turned the borderlands into EBmk2. This has adversely affected a number of players and the way the map is played. No-one should have an automatic right to a WP in my home – they should earn this by conquest (which is what WvW is about anyway).

Well said

Rage.8197:

Doesn’t take an hour to run across the map.. Maybe learn the map and get shrines to get 40% speed buff first before making excuses. Sometimes I think people just make stuff up and actually never even gave this map a try or gave up after the first attempt. I just started to play on this map. Its not too bad besides not many fights happen there. That’s due to players refusing to go there though. I did have to transfer though but at least now people are playing on the maps.

Funny people still use the words “nobody” and “everyone” just because they choose to not do something they think “everyone” else does the same thing.

Funny that you presume to know how much I know about the new map.

Wow… “Its not too bad besides not many fights happen there. That’s due to players refusing to go there though”

So the new WvW map is not bad except for the lack of WvWing going on? Brilliant

I’ve learned enough of the new map to know it’s not really set up for much beyond nice to look at. If offers very little in the way of strategic benefit. It’s confusing even for those who play it a good deal. We’ve had commanders needing to take time to stop and check the map to make sure they are actually traveling the right way. the amount of time needed to navigate the entire map would depend on how many towers/keeps you are trying to defend so I suppose an hour is not an extreme amount of time if you are forced to stop a number of times trying to figure out where the breach is and repair it. oh wait unless i learn the map and get that speed boost…smh

learn to quote before learning the map.

Funny that you presume nobody plays on these maps.

I don’t need to learn to quote to put your “argument” to rest. I don’t presume, I observe. In the three servers I’ve been to since HoT I’ve seen very little in the way of activity on any BL. And even when there is activity it usually consists of one group jumping to a BL and taking it over or a good portion of it, because the defenders have left it.

To be clear it was you that presumed nobody goes there(see your own statement). “it’s not too bad besides not many fights happen there. That’s due to players refusing to go there though”

Use that preview button a little more often and you can avoid contradicting yourself.

Rage.8197:

I don’t need to learn to quote to put your “argument” to rest. I don’t presume, I observe. In the three servers I’ve been to since HoT I’ve seen very little in the way of activity on any BL. And even when there is activity it usually consists of one group jumping to a BL and taking it over or a good portion of it, because the defenders have left it.

To be clear it was you that presumed nobody goes there(see your own statement). “it’s not too bad besides not many fights happen there. That’s due to players refusing to go there though”

Use that preview button a little more often and you can avoid contradicting yourself.

Well it’s hard to read what you said because it looks like you said the same thing I said because you messed up the quotes. Maps are not as bad as people are making them out to be as the more you play them, the more you learn to move around them better.

I saw very little action in the old BL’s so tbh there is no difference in what I saw before HoT to what I’m seeing now.

I’ve been to the BL’s every single night and have had fights over objectives.. I said what I said about lack of players because the fights I did have were a lot of fun. It could be more fun if people actually went to them more is all I was getting at.

I even solo roamed bl’s yesterday and there were a few solo roamers just like in the old BL’s..

and you use words like nobody, not me.. since you think nobody plays on them well have a look at this then

https://youtu.be/FWL_UVxESq0

A bunch of nobodies having a big fight over an objective…

you resort to criticizing the way i post. go away… you made the statement not me. the bottom line is activity on BL is slow and lacking action. one fight or 5 fights doesn’t make a bit of difference in the scheme of things.

Ps. if you cant follow the conversation maybe you should either discontinue posting or learn when and how quotations are used.

Did I put a sign up asking for trolls to come to my posts???