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Posted by: Aneu.1748

Aneu.1748

Introduction
After playing WvW for 8 months now I think everyone can quite plainly see that there are two forms of gameplay that have come to the forefront. We have the siege individuals and then we have the skirmish focused people. Over the past few months there has been a continuing struggle against both sides of “who is right” – and the answer is quite obvious – Both!

The biggest problem that both sides have is the fact the game only rewards one style of gameplay and that is siege play. It results in more points and gives the side with the most siege a distinct advantage over everyone else, especially siege that is placed perfectly in order to not be countered.

We now see another large problem that may be well within the right of servers to use since it is within the gameplay mechanics to use but essentially it is creating such boredom and stagnancy that people simply don’t want to fight anymore and we can see this with WvW populations starting to dwindle.

The concept of WvW was meant to be people fighting over objectives.

World vs. World (WvW) is PvP combat that involves hundred of players. Three huge teams —each representing a server, or world—battle for control over objectives on four massive maps in week-long matches.

Each map – one for each server and a huge “neutral” center map – is loaded with objectives that are worth points for the team that claims them. Players can band together to lay siege to castles, raid enemy supply caravans, clash with other players in truly massive battles, wreak havoc behind enemy lines, or build mighty weapons of war like trebuchets and siege golems.
While players are in WvW, they gain experience and loot just as they normally do while exploring Tyria. Plus, when their home world is doing well or wins a match in WvW, all players on that world receive special bonuses and perks.

World vs. World—it’s PvP combat on an epic scale!

So we can all agree that WvW is meant to be about “Combat on an epic scale” but sadly that is no longer what it is about. Maintaining points doesn’t always mean fighting; it means waiting for your enemies to log off then going to cap everything. It means creating a zerg that dwarfs your enemies, it means putting 12 arrow carts behind a single keep door so it is all but impossible to break through – even with golems!.

WvW is distinctly flawed and one sided and a change is heavily required.

Proposed changes
>Reduce Reinforced gate HP and damage reduction.
>Reduce Reinforced Wall HP and damage reduction.
>Reduce Fortified Wall HP and damage reduction.

The main point of the above changes is that offence becomes the best defence, as opposed to turtling inside a keep. You will maintain your advantage with defence due to siege/cannons and the ability to withdraw into your keep to recoup and then attack again.

This also has the added advantage of smaller night teams being far more worth while. So servers that run around in blobs of 50+ to cap everything can be undercut by 5 or 10 man groups who will be able to take down walls/doors sufficiently enough to reduce the night capping. It also means that 50+ man night force will be required to have scouts on any major keep in order to ensure ninja squads aren’t taking it off them. This adds to the whole “cat and mouse” night game that is currently in play and will only go to reduce the night-capping power some servers have.

>Reduce Keep Points by 10.
>Introduce “King of the hill” points on the map worth 10 points each(3) on EB and 5 each(6) on Borderlands.

The game will still heavily be in favour of tower/keep points however this will mean that open field battles will actually be worth something. Placement is obviously quite important of these “battle points” but essentially this gives both game play styles the ability to be worthwhile additions to WvW. This means siege and skirmish guilds will be required to work together in order to maintain maximum PPT. 6 points should be added to Borderlands while only 3 should be added to EB (due to the lack of sufficient places to put them – but EB battle zones should be larger than those in the BL).

Each zone in EB will be worth 10 points while each point in the borderlands will be worth 5 points. The northern spawn server will have a slight advantage on the map due to two points being placed closer to their spawn than the enemies but this will give those small 5 – 10 man teams something to do and work towards.

The other HUGE advantage this will give is that forces will be required to split up since there are far more objectives to achieve than previously and a single or even dual zerg will not be able to counter attacks to all of them.

Pic1 – EB – http://votf-online.net/gw2/EB.png
Pic2 – BL – http://votf-online.net/gw2/BL.png

Cont.

Aneu | [VoTF]
http://www.votf.net

(edited by Aneu.1748)

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Posted by: Aneu.1748

Aneu.1748

>Reduce WXP after the first 10 people who tag a person/objective.

Blobbing is the easiest way to gain wXP and this shouldn’t be the case. Encouraging the blob has huge ramifications to the extent of huge ability lag. Reducing the wXP give out after the first 10 people who “hit” a person or the first 10 people who enter the capture ring of a tower/keep/sentry/supply. Want wXP? Best to run around outside of a blob.

>Redefine the capture mechanics in light of gate/wall HP/damage reduction.
>Increase Lord HP by 50% on keeps (Not that of SM).
>Stop warrior “battle standard” from resurrecting the keep/tower lord.
>Add fire damage inside destroyable walls so those who use these to gain an unfair advantage eventually die – Obviously this should be flagged off when a wall is taken down.

So to redefine the capture mechanics is quite an important change to the game and the mechanic should be there to introduce more “epic battles” that can swing from one side to another. There should be three tiers to capturing a keep:
1- Kill the lord
2- Neutralize the keep
3- Capture the keep

1 stays the same with a change to point 3 while adding 2. 2 is added to give more time to the defending side to react due to the wall/door HP reduction. 3 will be the biggest change. We all should have seen the mechanics behind the dredge camps and krait area’s underwater where there are 3 lines for each server and they gradually fill as you complete the task required, this should be added to keep captures.

What you have is a system that will continually countdown to “capture” depending on the amount of “up” people you have inside the capture circle. Down people do not count towards capturing a keep. Each servers bar will move individually of the other so it comes down to who can kill the fastest while staying up. This means that the fight becomes more about balancing attack with defence, if your bar is at 75% and the enemies at 25% then you have a little time to regroup and re-engage but if you re-engage badly then that may give the enemy the advantage. While this added mechanic will not do anything to reduce the “blob” it will end the heavily monotonous task of servers sending in people 1 by 1 and re-spawning them in order to stop an attack while using the banner res to get the keep lord back up – It will also increase the adrenaline rush you get when fighting enemies and give you a huge feeling of achievement if you came in as the underdog and were able to turn the tides with the visual addition of a bar that shows you exactly how well you are doing.

Example:
Two sides engage inside the circle, blue team has 60 players, red team has 60 players. Both sides engage and red side takes a large loss of 30 players while blue maintains 40 meaning the blue bar will go up faster than red. Red regroups and re-engages putting 20 of the blue team into down state. They are now at 30v20 so red teams bar starts filling up faster. Red is at 75% blue is at 60%. Blue regroup outside quickly and re-engage red who were too slow in regrouping and kill all but 10 of them. Blue overtakes the red bar and captures the keep.

I firmly believe that these changes will reinvigorate World vs World and reduce stagnancy of tiers – Whether the tier system itself needs changing is something that requires far more thought but these changes will redefine the dynamic of WvW and create a game that is fun for all play styles.

The other part of these additions is that Arenanet moves itself away from the kind of corporate mindset that has killed many games off in the past – The mind set that you will only roll out sweeping changes to part of your game when it is under threat from another company. The biggest part that companies seem to miss is that by “tending your flock” continually you create a loyal base of customers that will value the time put in by Arenanet catering to the biggest flaws in the game and listening to the community. With kickstarter now becoming far larger than anyone could have guessed the next few years of gaming will be more and more based around company>customer interactions and we can see the value of this in EvE online.

Support by the community is required to see these changes discussed and possibly implemented, even if you don’t agree with them supporting more interaction is always a positive thing to do.

Regards
Dean “Aneu” Lewis
VoTF Guild Leader

I respectfully request that moderators leave this thread alone in the WvW sub-section to garner as much player input as possible. Thank you.

Aneu | [VoTF]
http://www.votf.net

(edited by Aneu.1748)

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Posted by: Aneu.1748

Aneu.1748

I hereby grant to ArenaNet and others working for them or on their behalf, and their respective parents, subsidiaries, affiliates, related entities, licensees, successors, and assigns collectively, the right and permission to use the ideas put forth in this thread and I hereby irrevocably waive any and all so-called moral rights I may have in the thread.

Aneu | [VoTF]
http://www.votf.net

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Posted by: Timpsu.9324

Timpsu.9324

Quite the amount of text placed there, you have certainly given some thought to all this. Much appreciated and respected! It’s hard to say right off the bat what kind of effect this could have on the meta, but I think these would certainly be improvements. WvW should be more about that epic-scale-direct-combat, and keeps and towers working as objectives and rewards for the servers. I think there must be something wrong when the n:o 1 server can take pride in avoiding direct combat and to be able to play when other servers aren’t online. It’s a strategy, an efficient one, but I don’t think that’s what WvW should be about. Of course, it’s all about coverage, and it’s up to ANet to decide what kind of emphasis coverage should have on W3 matchups.

[TLA] – Desolation

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Posted by: Terkov.4138

Terkov.4138

I don’t agree. Imho sieges should take hours, not few minutes. Ofc, hp change won’t help, it’d need some bigger changes.

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Posted by: hulksmash.3491

hulksmash.3491

Something needs to be done, at least its a suggestion thats got plenty of decent thought behind it. If Anets number crunchers can improve the game from this, go for it.

Toza | [VoTF] |
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Posted by: Silver.9084

Silver.9084

Very interesting read, it certainly has a lot of thought behind it, and i can’t help but agree with everything in OP suggested. Everyone knows something needs to be done to reinvigorate WvW, and I believe Aneu has very interesting suggestions.

Tux – [VoTF] Vengeance of The Fallen

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Posted by: Shimdroid.2765

Shimdroid.2765

Nice ideas, I like king of the hill battlezones in particular. I think, tho, that the system you’ve proposed for capturing a keep favors the faction already outmanning the other. I mean, if a team deploys twice the people of another they will have an even easier time to capture the objective the way you suggested. Am I missing something? English isn’t my native language so this might be…

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Posted by: Aneu.1748

Aneu.1748

I don’t agree. Imho sieges should take hours, not few minutes. Ofc, hp change won’t help, it’d need some bigger changes.

While part of me slightly agree’s that isnt the part that is logical but more selfish. After playing eve and being part of sieges of systems that took weeks we need to understand that this is a hugely different demographic of people that are playing and need to balance the casualness of WvW against those who exclusively play GW2 for it.

These changes don’t indicate any reduction in time of sieges, the siege will take as long as it takes provided the defence is sound and both sides know what they are doing. Mistakes will cost both sides but allowing one side to turtle inside the keep is not fun, its not worthy of what WvW should be. If you try to link WvW too much with how you think sieges should play out “for real” then you aren’t going to get much fun involved.

Aneu | [VoTF]
http://www.votf.net

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Posted by: Empyre.2531

Empyre.2531

I don’t agree. Imho sieges should take hours, not few minutes. Ofc, hp change won’t help, it’d need some bigger changes.

With the current size of maps sieges last too long. I’d agree to the current status if maps were 300% larger with no waypoints but your own spawncamp.
Being able to lose an objective faster while the travel time to the respective objective makes scouting (I don’t mean 1 guy sitting in the keep shouting “they on outer south door”, but actually scouting enemy movement on the map) much more benefitial and vital and additionally decreases blobbing since a “all on one”-zerg just won’t make it in time for a defense when the enemy sneaked from west to east. This might emphasise on objective trading (the old circle jerk), reducing personal benefit (wxp, exp etc) gained from recently recaptured objectives might be a counter to that.
Maybe add some kind of upscaling defender and attacker reward, the objective gets more benefitial if it was attacked/defended more often, making defense more rewarding, but also adding rewards for the attacker if they take a well defended objective.

There’s only 1 solution to nightcapping on 24/7 servers, worldwide servers.

[RG]

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Posted by: Caliban.3176

Caliban.3176

I think these are all awesome ideas. Let’s hope we get most of this things in very soon.

Well that and underwater maps for my bff Kebab

[VoTF] www.votf-online.net
7.2k+ hours played on Minesweeper

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Posted by: Aseroth.4591

Aseroth.4591

I totally agree 100% that Reinforced gates/walls NEED to lose HP and defence, A LOT. Also, i really like the ideas that u stated and think it would make WvW a lot more interesting, since it’s gonna be more about fighting, than sitting in a reinforced tower using arrowcarts for hours and hours.

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Posted by: Cyril.1486

Cyril.1486

Aneu i know exactly where your coming from with this, i pretty much agree with most of what you said. There is a solution to this in my opinion and it involves a tier where there are a lot of like minded guilds.

You know your trying to wake a sleeping monkey asking for this do you really think Anet are gonna put work into Wvwvw. It’s been almost 9 months slowly closing in on a year and lets be honest there hasn’t really been any changes in Wvwvw. We got ranks that were siege related i bet people on Vizunah Square were loving that change.

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Posted by: Shagath.8069

Shagath.8069

I of course agree with everything within first posts as it makes sense for improved gameplay. Hope it won’t go to deaf ears.

[VoTF] www.votf-online.net
Drunken necromancer

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Posted by: Aneu.1748

Aneu.1748

I totally agree 100% that Reinforced gates/walls NEED to lose HP and defence, A LOT. Also, i really like the ideas that u stated and think it would make WvW a lot more interesting, since it’s gonna be more about fighting, than sitting in a reinforced tower using arrowcarts for hours and hours.

This is WvW atm, 12 arrow-carts facing a single door, fun isnt it

Attachments:

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Posted by: Jackie.1829

Jackie.1829

I will also add that I agree with the propositions.

As has been mentioned maps are very small and having long sieges is not logical for a game like GW2. It made sense in Aion when taking forts of in warhammer when doing a zone lock then pushing for a fortress but it doesnt here as these objectives are incredibly accessible.

Also, even if we were to accept that sieges should be a long affair, you need to think of what a siege entails. If you want a keep to take an hour to capture, think of and suggest a way to make it a fun hour. I and many other players have no intention of ramming a gate for 1h while dropping water fields on ram users to counter arrow cart spam, that is in no way siegeing.

However if sieging meant fighting inside the enemy keep vs players for an hour then sure, I am sure many people could work with that.

This is also why fundamentally the gates should be easy to take down, but the actual capture of the keep needs to be harder, the capping mechanics needs a rework like Aneu stated and also needs to last longer than it currently does so that a battle over the capture does take place. The lord should be harder to kill but should not be rezzable in any way after the kill has occured, I would even rule out the regular player ressing because of the drawbacks.

I have managed to solo an entire keep, lord and everything, this is not something I like, it says to me there is a problem. You want a keep capture to be epic, then we need ways for it to be epic, other than simply taking a long period of time because time somehow denotes the epicness of an event.

Anyways /signed assuming a few tweaks here and there.

[VoTF] www.votf-online.net
GW1 Rank 1 – 2 Gold Capes – [sC] [sup]

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Posted by: Leorcyn.1063

Leorcyn.1063

I like most of the ideas, and agree that a change is needed in WvW to keep it interesting. And not stupid ranks.
WvW has been what kept most of the PvP players around GW2 while the sPvP was utterly disappointing, and Anet is lucky that no game comes out to tickle them in the “mass scale” PvP. However, some of those games are coming out later this year, so I guess it’s time to pull something out of the hat.

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Posted by: Jackie.1829

Jackie.1829

There’s only 1 solution to nightcapping on 24/7 servers, worldwide servers.

Lag permitted this would be a great idea and something I’d love to see occur.

Well, I play from Canada to europe for both wvw and spvp and even in spvp all the twitch based gameplay is fine on whatever ping I seem to be getting. But it is impossible for Arenanet to rule in external factors such as european ISPs and their routing to different servers. Several individuals will crop out with specific lag issues and blame the game which is an issue in itself, ofc there are other things like gem stores being region based because they involve real money which extends to currencies and taxes.

But as far as wvw goes, you must remember we would have fairly high ques from such a merger. Unless the servers were paired up in a way that accounted specifically for wvw pop balance with in a timezone, but merging a t1 EU and t1 NA server would cause ques beyond belief.

[VoTF] www.votf-online.net
GW1 Rank 1 – 2 Gold Capes – [sC] [sup]

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Posted by: Deffe.2967

Deffe.2967

I really liked these ideas. King of the Hill would be amazing to have. Also the Capping idea is really nice.

+1 for everything.

Veffe Ku – Guardian

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Posted by: Coldpain.9238

Coldpain.9238

If only anet could listen and implement atleast a few of those ideas then wvw would start to get fun again. Atm it’s just who has bigger nightcap force and during the day it’s just stay in your keep/tower and shoot your stupid arrow carts. Kinda funny that Anet is even promoting such kind of behaviour and adding new arrowcart abilities and other nonsense.

Realy hope Anet reads this post and realises what their players actually want from WvW.

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Posted by: scootshoot.6583

scootshoot.6583

The home maps need to differ from Green, Blue and Red teams. The 3rd ranked server in the tier needs to have a map that favors them so they don’t get overrun due to coverage, numbers etc. Their maps should have stronger defensive positions and make it challenging for the Green and Blue teams to dominate the full map.

Green should have the least structural advantages to allow the lower ranked teams greater chance to wreck havoc.

Blue should be balanced somewhere in the middle.

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Posted by: Caliban.3176

Caliban.3176

The home maps need to differ from Green, Blue and Red teams. The 3rd ranked server in the tier needs to have a map that favors them so they don’t get overrun due to coverage, numbers etc. Their maps should have stronger defensive positions and make it challenging for the Green and Blue teams to dominate the full map.

Green should have the least structural advantages to allow the lower ranked teams greater chance to wreck havoc.

Blue should be balanced somewhere in the middle.

These are different ideas and offer little feedback to what was given in the OP (which already is quite extensive). Anyhow I do not agree on that, I like the identical maps, it guarantees that nobody can whine about balance. We all know there is plenty of complaining on the matchup threads already, let’s not give them more reasons.

[VoTF] www.votf-online.net
7.2k+ hours played on Minesweeper

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Posted by: Kebab.4013

Kebab.4013

I have to agree with the overall message of the OP. Things need to be a changed up slightly. Granted the Meta-game has changed continuously, but a lot of the tiresome factors still remain. Nightcapping, golemrushes, tower hugging etc. I am a more skirmish oriented player so bear that in mind.

A lot of the concepts mentioned did indeed hit me all the right places, King of the hill especially. Granted I do believe that mechanics need to change for keep fights, since it can be some rather tiresome for people just out for some fun, fighting against a tier three keep with full supplies. The lowering of value seems like a good idea, but it could be very easy abusable.

However I do think that with a bit of adjustment things could work out well for both sides of the coin. We have the skirmishers that really do not want to facerub against a tower for hours and we have the siegers who wants the epic long siege fights. ((Didn’t realize these existed in this game (Neither do I understand them it being such small maps and casual game) However if we are going to persist in these hourlong battles in keeps, you might as well turn it up. Buff the hp and toughness of everything to do with siege! Make it close to impossible to take over the slightest tower. I guess that would make the siege people happy ? Since the towers would be so extremely hard to take the points should be somewhat stable. Do this while implementing King of the hills zones all around the different maps that also counts points. These domination points would be an important factor of the PPT, giving more incentive for the skirmish people to actually get some fights etc. etc….

Donno I’m just rambling now. I don’t have any solid ideas, I just want to see some change in dynamic, because the current game is too stagnant and bland. We know that any major content addition won’t be hitting anytime soon, so at least we could hope for a change in mechanics :)

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Posted by: Luffy.9365

Luffy.9365

Nice post and i like some ideas. I was also thinking a solution about this. A new BL , where you wont be able to freely enter ,with different rules and build around a GvG point system from siege and kills. If you cant freely enter , how you will? We can have a long discussion about this ,some suggestions are, guild members > 10 members , some guild ranking system based on the rest BL , guild registration under a specific fee(badges f.e) and many more. The new BL should have new siege rules and huge control points ,where Guilds should fight each others. I beleive that is time that Anet should look all the hardcore WvW and not only the pve side……..
Guild Wars 2 isnt the name?

[VcY]Velocity – Snowfang/Luffy D Portgas/Bagif

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Posted by: Mighty Ice Arrow.9268

Mighty Ice Arrow.9268

I totally agree 100% that Reinforced gates/walls NEED to lose HP and defence, A LOT. Also, i really like the ideas that u stated and think it would make WvW a lot more interesting, since it’s gonna be more about fighting, than sitting in a reinforced tower using arrowcarts for hours and hours.

This is WvW atm, 12 arrow-carts facing a single door, fun isnt it

Thanks for your contribution.

This defensive situation, should have a correct approach, different from the one you suggest (rams or golems), the siege must be cleared by a treb, including before he starts siege, the commander must clear the AC in the wall, in the process he will notice that is group getting too much damage, this indicates the existence of other siege, then he can order the building of a treb or trebs (don’t waste any supplies before you know the enemy defenses.)

If I want something I must be prepared to pay the price, make the enemy waste provisions, cut them the provisions, and be prepared to not succeed the 1st time, and don’t see this as a defeat, but like one step to victory.

There are so many situations in game that aren’t correctly done. Siege it’s a major one, defensive or offensive.

Its a funny situation yes. Hard but funny.

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Posted by: Mizu.9387

Mizu.9387

I must say I’ve been thinking about something similar. Such as why there isn’t a “king of the hill” cap area (or even two areas) inside the first wall of a keep. I would like if there was actually a battle over the courtyard in order to make the inner walls vulnerable to attacks.
Instread of the quaggan island, bring back the orbs and place the altar without walls on the center island.
Now I know there’s a lot to “balance”, but hell, just try something new for a week. Its been the same since launch, anything new is welcome at this point.

Sif Urkraft

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Posted by: Danielle.3152

Danielle.3152

Open PvP worlds in including WvW are always ridiculously hard to get right. Not one game has so far been successful at doing so. With some of what Aneu proposes and further changes to WvW the mode could be so much more fun. And possibly ArenaNet could create the first truly successful open PvP mode. That and make maps slightly larger and with more objectives or having more maps overall would help an awful lot.

WvW should be a PvP area where groups of ALL sizes from 5-25 as well as solo roamers can go and roam and find somewhat even fights which would be forced by the structure of the objectives. The proposed changes would go a long way to help this.

Then there should also be instanced PvP including duelling 1v1, tPvP that we already have with 5v5, but also hopefully including larger team fights with 8v8, 10v10, 15v15, 20v20, 25v25.

Hopefully ArenaNet recognizes that WvW for now, functions as the place where these fights should occur spontaneously and will make their best effort to prevent it from becoming a permanent zerg/siege fest.

[Scnd] Daniellita,
Blast!

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Posted by: Danielle.3152

Danielle.3152

I totally agree 100% that Reinforced gates/walls NEED to lose HP and defence, A LOT. Also, i really like the ideas that u stated and think it would make WvW a lot more interesting, since it’s gonna be more about fighting, than sitting in a reinforced tower using arrowcarts for hours and hours.

This is WvW atm, 12 arrow-carts facing a single door, fun isnt it

Thanks for your contribution.

This defensive situation, should have a correct approach, different from the one you suggest (rams or golems), the siege must be cleared by a treb, including before he starts siege, the commander must clear the AC in the wall, in the process he will notice that is group getting too much damage, this indicates the existence of other siege, then he can order the building of a treb or trebs (don’t waste any supplies before you know the enemy defenses.)

If I want something I must be prepared to pay the price, make the enemy waste provisions, cut them the provisions, and be prepared to not succeed the 1st time, and don’t see this as a defeat, but like one step to victory.

There are so many situations in game that aren’t correctly done. Siege it’s a major one, defensive or offensive.

Its a funny situation yes. Hard but funny.

Let’s face it using a trebuchet is one of the most boring activities one has ever done in a game. Then you get the defensive counter trebuchet to bombard the offensive trebuchet and the game becomes a total trebuchet snoozefest.

[Scnd] Daniellita,
Blast!

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Posted by: Mogar.9216

Mogar.9216

remove downed state and up the ae limit to 20 and your zerg problem will be solved . This allows a smaller but better played force to wipe a much larger zerg.

Edit also the solution isn’t making keep easier to take. Right now there is no way and no pt defending vs a larger zerg. Due to the fact that you can’t thin their numbers. Defending keep is all or nothing. You can either wipe the attacking force or you won’t be able to kill a single one

(edited by Mogar.9216)

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Posted by: nerk.5462

nerk.5462

Good stuff. Thumbs up Aneu

+1 all the way

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Posted by: Silver.9084

Silver.9084

The current situation makes it that WvW becomes boring ! Just see the picture of the arrowcarts Aneu posted -.-

Tux – [VoTF] Vengeance of The Fallen

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Posted by: greyblue.4962

greyblue.4962

It strikes me that this suggestion shows a massive disdain for all of the players who enjoy most the reinforcing and supplying of towers and keeps.

It also sounds like implementing what you suggest would have the effect of making the zerg ball supremely powerful. Servers that currently stack 100 in a ball and run around spamming 1 would win everything, always, unless a second serve stacked 110 and did the same.

In my opinion, implementing what you’ve asked for here would utterly ruin WvW. Please, Anet, never do this.

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Posted by: Zamerine.2635

Zamerine.2635

The king of the hill idea sounds awesome.

Charr Elementalist D/D
[WL] War LegenD
Vizunah Square [FR]

(edited by Zamerine.2635)

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Posted by: Teel.9036

Teel.9036

It strikes me that this suggestion shows a massive disdain for all of the players who enjoy most the reinforcing and supplying of towers and keeps.

It also sounds like implementing what you suggest would have the effect of making the zerg ball supremely powerful. Servers that currently stack 100 in a ball and run around spamming 1 would win everything, always, unless a second serve stacked 110 and did the same.

In my opinion, implementing what you’ve asked for here would utterly ruin WvW. Please, Anet, never do this.

The “king of the hill” part will limit the PPT that blobs can get for their server in a BL, you can’t have 100 people at every single one of these locations.

Teelie l VoTF

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Posted by: Aneu.1748

Aneu.1748

It strikes me that this suggestion shows a massive disdain for all of the players who enjoy most the reinforcing and supplying of towers and keeps.

It also sounds like implementing what you suggest would have the effect of making the zerg ball supremely powerful. Servers that currently stack 100 in a ball and run around spamming 1 would win everything, always, unless a second serve stacked 110 and did the same.

In my opinion, implementing what you’ve asked for here would utterly ruin WvW. Please, Anet, never do this.

How? Please give a more directed piece of feedback than generalising as much as possible.

Aneu | [VoTF]
http://www.votf.net

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Posted by: Aneu.1748

Aneu.1748

Added new abilities:

Arrow Cart Mastery
Increase range on all arrow-cart skills.
Increase damage on all arrow-cart skills.
Increase effectiveness of applied conditions.
Increase radius on all arrow-cart skills
New skill (slot 4): Toxic Unveiling Shot. Removes stealth and applies poison to targets.

Do arenanet not play WvW at all? This is a joke right? Do they not know what Poison does?

Aneu | [VoTF]
http://www.votf.net

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Posted by: Mizu.9387

Mizu.9387

Do not forget the 30s delay on “under attack” notification^^
Time to plant a guild in each and every tower and keep in case that zerg shows up.

Sif Urkraft

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Posted by: greyblue.4962

greyblue.4962

How? Please give a more directed piece of feedback than generalising as much as possible.

Possibly this is a tier difference, but lately I’ve seen the following meta, particularly from servers like SF:

1. There are 100 people in a zerg ball. Guilds ask players to form “ranks” of specific classes with specific builds, so the zerg ball has a designated make-up, roughly as follows:
1. 10 guardians
2. 10 Mesmers
3. 20 Staff elementalists
4. 20 Well necros
5. 40 or so “others” who tag along but aren’t part of the main group.

This group runs around each BL (they have one of these on each BL) clockwise. When they reach a tower with a gate that’s not upgraded, they bring it down without siege in about 40 seconds, and take the tower in about 3 minutes.

If they meet opposition, the following happens:
1. The mesmers all drop portals, then all stand together and drop another portal and everyone goes through so the ball is stacked on a single location (prevents catching some of the group in an AoE).
2. Guardians rotate reflection bubbles and Hallowed Ground (it doesn’t buff people who already have 3xstability, so with buff duration spec you can give the whole zerg permanent stability.
3. Mesmers all drop temporal curtain and then into the void, either on wall top to pull people forward, or in the field to bunch enemies. Elementalists drop a wave of AoE on the top of the wall in a siege, or on the bunched the zerg in a field battle, starting with 20 meteor showers. Power necros do the same with wells. Everyone else spams a ranged attack.
4. In a siege, the majority of enemy siege and players are dead. In a field battle, any group that’s not running a similar strategy is dead.

By all accounts, this is dreadfully boring to do after a while, but it works. Up until now this strategy has been counterable by glamor mesmers (now dead), or 8 or more arrow carts hitting the same spot (maybe only 5 now with the buff).

The changes you’re suggesting would make this strategy more effective. People already do this while complaining that it’s not fun. Nerfing WXP would do nothing. Reducing siege damage and making gates weaker would make this strategy completely unstoppable.

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Posted by: Silver.9084

Silver.9084

WTF THOSE ARROWCART ABILITIES.

Tux – [VoTF] Vengeance of The Fallen

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Posted by: itsmee.7536

itsmee.7536

Nice post and i like some ideas. I was also thinking a solution about this. A new BL , where you wont be able to freely enter ,with different rules and build around a GvG point system from siege and kills. If you cant freely enter , how you will? We can have a long discussion about this ,some suggestions are, guild members > 10 members , some guild ranking system based on the rest BL , guild registration under a specific fee(badges f.e) and many more. The new BL should have new siege rules and huge control points ,where Guilds should fight each others. I beleive that is time that Anet should look all the hardcore WvW and not only the pve side……..
Guild Wars 2 isnt the name?

That would mean no one from Tier 9 would be able to enter that zone. Well may be one or two guilds.

All in All, my favorite suggestion was the “king of the Hills” one. It adds a new flavor to the game. I also like your suggestion about the WvW xp cap on 10 ppl hitting one player to prevent blobbling. However, I’m not too keen on the idea of having gates and walls HP reduced because it makes upgrading less important. Instead, I would suggest to decrease only T1 gates/walls HP’s so that upgrading becomes more important, as well as wiping upgrades and cutting enemy supply lines.

Dijla – Charr Warrior
[GoA] Guardians of Arcane – Officer
Ruins of Surmia – Commander

(edited by itsmee.7536)

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Posted by: Caliban.3176

Caliban.3176

How? Please give a more directed piece of feedback than generalising as much as possible.

Possibly this is a tier difference, but lately I’ve seen the following meta, particularly from servers like SF:

1. There are 100 people in a zerg ball. Guilds ask players to form “ranks” of specific classes with specific builds, so the zerg ball has a designated make-up, roughly as follows:
1. 10 guardians
2. 10 Mesmers
3. 20 Staff elementalists
4. 20 Well necros
5. 40 or so “others” who tag along but aren’t part of the main group.

This group runs around each BL (they have one of these on each BL) clockwise. When they reach a tower with a gate that’s not upgraded, they bring it down without siege in about 40 seconds, and take the tower in about 3 minutes.

If they meet opposition, the following happens:
1. The mesmers all drop portals, then all stand together and drop another portal and everyone goes through so the ball is stacked on a single location (prevents catching some of the group in an AoE).
2. Guardians rotate reflection bubbles and Hallowed Ground (it doesn’t buff people who already have 3xstability, so with buff duration spec you can give the whole zerg permanent stability.
3. Mesmers all drop temporal curtain and then into the void, either on wall top to pull people forward, or in the field to bunch enemies. Elementalists drop a wave of AoE on the top of the wall in a siege, or on the bunched the zerg in a field battle, starting with 20 meteor showers. Power necros do the same with wells. Everyone else spams a ranged attack.
4. In a siege, the majority of enemy siege and players are dead. In a field battle, any group that’s not running a similar strategy is dead.

By all accounts, this is dreadfully boring to do after a while, but it works. Up until now this strategy has been counterable by glamor mesmers (now dead), or 8 or more arrow carts hitting the same spot (maybe only 5 now with the buff).

The changes you’re suggesting would make this strategy more effective. People already do this while complaining that it’s not fun. Nerfing WXP would do nothing. Reducing siege damage and making gates weaker would make this strategy completely unstoppable.

Never seen this before this organized but what Aneu suggested would destroy that tactic. It would no be efficient for any group over 30 to run together because there are too many things to do at once. This would destroy your zergball problem.

[VoTF] www.votf-online.net
7.2k+ hours played on Minesweeper

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Posted by: The Spiral King.2483

The Spiral King.2483

WTF THOSE ARROWCART ABILITIES.

I’m glad I saved my rank points up until now. I’m getting giddy just thinking about them.

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Posted by: greyblue.4962

greyblue.4962

Never seen this before this organized but what Aneu suggested would destroy that tactic. It would no be efficient for any group over 30 to run together because there are too many things to do at once. This would destroy your zergball problem.

How would it destroy this? They can always split into two balls of 50, and it currently only takes them about 45 minutes to “cycle” the map.

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Posted by: Caliban.3176

Caliban.3176

That would mean no one from Tier 9 would be able to enter that zone. Well may be one or two guilds.

All in All, my favorite suggestion was the “king of the Hills” one. It adds a new flavor to the game. I also like your suggestion about the WvW xp cap on 10 ppl hitting one player to prevent blobbling. However, I’m not too keen on idea of have gates and walls HP reduced because it makes upgrading less important. Instead, I would suggest to decrease only T1 gates/walls HP’s so that upgrading becomes more important, as well as wiping upgrades and cutting enemy supply lines.

Upgraded towers are something people use to avoid fights, seeing as the purpose of what Aneu suggest is to have more fights therefore making upgrading more important would defeat the purpose. Upgrading still helps a little but shouldn’t be too strong like it is now. A fortified tower is a kitten to take if you don’t have a huge group and requires no skill (from player nor commanders). Problem is the defending requires even less skill, it just requires arrowcarts and trebs.

Having less hp on structures would increase the importance of actually going out with your people to kill the attackers and their siege. Also you would no longer be able to hold them off so long until the entire map that gathered somewhere can run back. This would make people split up again.

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7.2k+ hours played on Minesweeper

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Posted by: Silver.9084

Silver.9084

WTF THOSE ARROWCART ABILITIES.

I’m glad I saved my rank points up until now. I’m getting giddy just thinking about them.

I don’t care if i saved my points or not, this patch just killed WvW.

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Posted by: Teel.9036

Teel.9036

In T1 when we fought Vizunah blobs they would put down ballistas everywhere in the open when they saw us (spread shot..), I suppose now they’ll start dropping arrow carts as well.

Teelie l VoTF

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Posted by: Mighty Ice Arrow.9268

Mighty Ice Arrow.9268

I totally agree 100% that Reinforced gates/walls NEED to lose HP and defence, A LOT. Also, i really like the ideas that u stated and think it would make WvW a lot more interesting, since it’s gonna be more about fighting, than sitting in a reinforced tower using arrowcarts for hours and hours.

This is WvW atm, 12 arrow-carts facing a single door, fun isnt it

Thanks for your contribution.

This defensive situation, should have a correct approach, different from the one you suggest (rams or golems), the siege must be cleared by a treb, including before he starts siege, the commander must clear the AC in the wall, in the process he will notice that is group getting too much damage, this indicates the existence of other siege, then he can order the building of a treb or trebs (don’t waste any supplies before you know the enemy defenses.)

If I want something I must be prepared to pay the price, make the enemy waste provisions, cut them the provisions, and be prepared to not succeed the 1st time, and don’t see this as a defeat, but like one step to victory.

There are so many situations in game that aren’t correctly done. Siege it’s a major one, defensive or offensive.

Its a funny situation yes. Hard but funny.

Let’s face it using a trebuchet is one of the most boring activities one has ever done in a game. Then you get the defensive counter trebuchet to bombard the offensive trebuchet and the game becomes a total trebuchet snoozefest.

Yes for me the siege is one of the funniest parts of the game, try to find the best place, establish a defensive perimeter for your offensive siege, this is all pure WWW, the “other thing” between guilds isn’t not part of it, it should be another chapter of the game, and I think it will be a success.

PS: I’m keeping the promise to myself to not discuss the “other thing” here in WWW forum

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Posted by: itsmee.7536

itsmee.7536

In T1 when we fought Vizunah blobs they would put down ballistas everywhere in the open when they saw us (spread shot..), I suppose now they’ll start dropping arrow carts as well.

Ouch!

@Caliban: you make a good point, however I just want to be the devil’s advocate here and say that some people actually enjoy defending against larger groups, and reducing HP on walls/gates might make it impossible.

Dijla – Charr Warrior
[GoA] Guardians of Arcane – Officer
Ruins of Surmia – Commander

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Posted by: Caliban.3176

Caliban.3176

Never seen this before this organized but what Aneu suggested would destroy that tactic. It would no be efficient for any group over 30 to run together because there are too many things to do at once. This would destroy your zergball problem.

How would it destroy this? They can always split into two balls of 50, and it currently only takes them about 45 minutes to “cycle” the map.

They would need to split up in at least 3 groups and preferably 5 or more if you read the suggestion that was posted. And 50 players is no longer a problem. You can kill that with 30 players and experience no skillag. You’re problem just got solved.

You calculate time to cycle a map but it sounds like there is no opposition on that map.

[VoTF] www.votf-online.net
7.2k+ hours played on Minesweeper

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Posted by: Caliban.3176

Caliban.3176

In T1 when we fought Vizunah blobs they would put down ballistas everywhere in the open when they saw us (spread shot..), I suppose now they’ll start dropping arrow carts as well.

Ouch!

@Caliban: you make a good point, however I just want to be the devil’s advocate here and say that some people actually enjoy defending against larger groups, and reducing HP on walls/gates might make it impossible.

I agree and actually that would help because we all know that with a little organisation and some teamplay it is not hard to kill 1.5X to 2X your own numbers (provided there is no skillag so no groups over 50) in this game. So now people can still defend against larger forces and they will have to because they no longer have the luxury to wait for the big zerg to arrive.

[VoTF] www.votf-online.net
7.2k+ hours played on Minesweeper