Guild Wars 2

Question to all you guys,

I think it’s been mentioned by people before to bring Alphine Borderlands back, which I feel for myself.

But what do you think prevents Anet from making this decision, I mean, why not?

I wish for this to happen, but healthy speculation might put things in perspective.

Tzozef.9841:

But what do you think prevents Anet from making this decision, I mean, why not?

Pride.

Reverting to the old borderlands would equal to admitting they made a mistake. Most developers and publishers never admit they are wrong. Now granted, Anet has showed several times that they are willing to listen to the community, but this is already implemented and live since over a month. Most changes they “revert” where only in the early stages, such as commander tag costs, the HoT character slot debacle or completely folding to PvE cries about HoT being too hard within days of release.

So yeah.

Not going to happen.

They didn’t make a mistake.

The New Desert Borderland was stress tested in WvW & is now ready to be re-deployed for use in an EotM Map rotation schedule.

Dawdler.8521:

Tzozef.9841:

But what do you think prevents Anet from making this decision, I mean, why not?

Pride.

Reverting to the old borderlands would equal to admitting they made a mistake. Most developers and publishers never admit they are wrong. Now granted, Anet has showed several times that they are willing to listen to the community, but this is already implemented and live since over a month. Most changes they “revert” where only in the early stages, such as commander tag costs, the HoT character slot debacle or completely folding to PvE cries about HoT being too hard within days of release.

So yeah.

Not going to happen.

Some companies have survived similar disasters. Remember New Coke? Coca Cola was smart enough to act really quickly and bring back “Coke Classic.”

Anet could always bring the old BL into rotation, starting every other week, then two weeks out of three, then three weeks out of four, and so on. They’ll even be able to say, “We told you it’d come back into rotation,” (despite the fact that they probably never planned to do that).

That said, I don’t think it’s going to happen in this case. And as each day passes with no action, or even acknowledgement that there’s a problem, it’s getting closer and closer to being too late to act (it might already be, looking at the enormous decrease in population).

Lord Kuru.3685:

Dawdler.8521:

Tzozef.9841:

But what do you think prevents Anet from making this decision, I mean, why not?

Pride.

Reverting to the old borderlands would equal to admitting they made a mistake. Most developers and publishers never admit they are wrong. Now granted, Anet has showed several times that they are willing to listen to the community, but this is already implemented and live since over a month. Most changes they “revert” where only in the early stages, such as commander tag costs, the HoT character slot debacle or completely folding to PvE cries about HoT being too hard within days of release.

So yeah.

Not going to happen.

Some companies have survived similar disasters. Remember New Coke? Coca Cola was smart enough to act really quickly and bring back “Coke Classic.”

Anet could always bring the old BL into rotation, starting every other week, then two weeks out of three, then three weeks out of four, and so on. They’ll even be able to say, “We told you it’d come back into rotation,” (despite the fact that they probably never planned to do that).

That said, I don’t think it’s going to happen in this case. And as each day passes with no action, or even acknowledgement that there’s a problem, it’s getting closer and closer to being too late to act (it might already be, looking at the enormous decrease in population).

It’s like the saying goes, “An error doesn’t become a mistake until you refuse to correct it”. Coke realized their error and corrected it. There have been numerous major areas that Anet’s let things slip into the mistake area without even acknowledging the possibility of a problem. Considering they were told during the betas what the problems would be, ignored them, and went ahead anyway, I don’t think they’re really going to do any correcting any time soon. And if they do, it’ll probably be the wrong direction and end up being the final nail in the severely battered coffin.

Diku.2546:

They didn’t make a mistake.

The New Desert Borderland was stress tested in WvW & is now ready to be re-deployed for use in an EotM Map rotation schedule.

Do you work on a presidential candidates campaign spin team? If you don’t, you should consider the career change.

@Straegen

Naw…I’m pretty clumsy at spinning anything…

Coca Cola Commercial – I’d Like to Teach the World to Sing (In Perfect Harmony)
Classic Coke Please
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ib-Qiyklq-Q

Can I buy you a Coke? Classic or New Coke?

Hmm…snow white turtle doves.

You have to understand when project managers or $$$ is invested into a product the common method is to stay the course despite the doubters.

I’ve seen people in my line of work keep rolling with the worst of ideas ignoring help along the way or having an open mind. It’s this weird “in too deep” mentality that they “must make it work at all costs” that leads to the downfall in the end. I feel as if anet has invested so much in the new maps that they are “in too deep” and there’s no turning back.

The opening of all servers must have them worried. Trending data shows people are not playing a mode you invested in and they obviously dedicated time to the creation of these maps. The sudden wvw drop off and gem transfer fees put a dent in their statistics I’m sure.

Now…they must choose and are most likely having meetings I would think about what is the best approach. Whether that is closing tier x through z servers or creating a mega-server system, a decision must be made…and soon as a large player base has given up on them and I believe them to recognize this based on nearly all servers opening.

They just signed a deal with the e sports thingy, this creates pressure on a team and I’ve seen it first hand unfortunately. Whoever the captain is, they are steering this ship towards dangerous waters and putting extreme pressure on the poor devs. It’s really easy to see what may be going on here, a deal was struck and anet has a deadlines, outline timelines with an outside manager on their tails to meet, and control of resources. One dev, whom we know very well in the wvw world, left. If someone who was a major factor with wvw is willing to start applying for jobs and leave anet, then that tells a story. The guy moved on for a better opportunity clearly, but it’s very obvious…the company is headed in a strange direction that logical thought knows is not a wise decision.

Or I’m wrong about all this and anet is kittenugar

Tzozef.9841:

But what do you think prevents Anet from making this decision, I mean, why not?

Because people assume that bringing back the old map is something that can be done easily and without issue. Judging by the amount of bugs that slip through testing with each major update it’s safe to say no change is an easy one.

Hypothetically speaking; they bring the old map back which brings with it some old bugs fixed in recent patches, as well as introducing a few new ones. Then they have to update the old maps with the new WvW features, introducing even more problems. Then they go through their testing phase. Then they organize a maintenance window for the stressful job of pushing this all to production and likely reconfiguring the system that manages their WvW VM instances. If they’re unlucky this results in a few ongoing issues for their infrastructure team to fix. Then they get to look forward to all the complaints and bug reports for problems missed during the testing phase.

It’s a massive undertaking that just flushes all the work done to get the new desert BL live down the drain. It’s not going to happen.

@Diru

Coca-Cola did it…the rest is history.

Diku.2546:

They didn’t make a mistake.

The New Desert Borderland was stress tested in WvW & is now ready to be re-deployed for use in an EotM Map rotation schedule.

Umm.. was the new maps deployed under the influence?

You would think they would get a clue that people hate them since there is a Q on EB at all times and the rest of the maps are a ghost town now.
Dear Anet,

People are playing on EB because they think the other maps suck. The end.

HINT: Smaller, flatter maps focusing on letting payers fight = fun.

What makes them not do it? Because it is what they want to do with their game, not what people actually want to play that matters here.

ArenaNet have their own idea of fun and it seems to me they are completely clueless how to make this game working as a whole. They are just trying out new things every new major update, completely scrapping some game systems for never-ending line of new ones. The game still lacks UI which would let big communities easily organise for big metas events. This game after 3 years still feels like an unfinished product. And those bugs… I don’t get it..so many of them. Public test environment is also something this game gravely needs.

I will continue to say.. remove WVW merge servers into 3 or 4 factions since megaserver hitted theres a weird feeling about fight other worlds/servers, and make a small continent with more smallers maps some with cliffss, other more plain, with a good castle design, so the wvw population can get distributed.

No matter changes anet does, wvw design with server rotations is the problem, it will always get dull.

We are still expecting to see the dull airstrike ship on EB recking everything and everyone at the walls, a thing that a groups of necros and eles already do.

Well then, they should just adjust the use of the new BL. Replace EB with the new BL map and rotate the 2 of them out ever 2 weeks or so. Bring back the Alpine maps for the Home BL’s. Maybe make the points gained from the Desert BL count more than the Alpine maps?

Now you have all 3 maps being utilized.

Raf.1078:

Well then, they should just adjust the use of the new BL. Replace EB with the new BL map and rotate the 2 of them out ever 2 weeks or so. Bring back the Alpine maps for the Home BL’s. Maybe make the points gained from the Desert BL count more than the Alpine maps?

Now you have all 3 maps being utilized.

So your plan is since everyone hates the new BL maps and likes EB, you take away what they like and make it so they hate all the maps so they rage quit instead of play? This so reminds me of that manager that was fired from a store here recently who took away the most popular products in the store to try and make the people buy the unpopular ones so they left their carts and stopped shopping there instead and almost caused the store to close. Although they have hired a new manager now, the store will never be as busy as it once was due to customers refusing to shop there anymore over what that stupid manager did before.

What you propose is to lose customers permanently so the people who will " settle for whatever" use what is left after everyone else leaves. YIKES.

I would much rather they bring them back

lil devils x.6071:

Raf.1078:

Well then, they should just adjust the use of the new BL. Replace EB with the new BL map and rotate the 2 of them out ever 2 weeks or so. Bring back the Alpine maps for the Home BL’s. Maybe make the points gained from the Desert BL count more than the Alpine maps?

Now you have all 3 maps being utilized.

So your plan is since everyone hates the new BL maps and likes EB, you take away what they like and make it so they hate all the maps so they rage quit instead of play? This so reminds me of that manager that was fired from a store here recently who took away the most popular products in the store to try and make the people buy the unpopular ones so they left their carts and stopped shopping there instead and almost caused the store to close. Although they have hired a new manager now, the store will never be as busy as it once was due to customers refusing to shop there anymore over what that stupid manager did before.

What you propose is to lose customers permanently so the people who will " settle for whatever" use what is left after everyone else leaves. YIKES.

The assumption is on your part. You assume that EB is full because people like it. EB is full because it is a better option than the new BL’s right now. But not everyone likes the map.

Personally, I never played EB much until recently. I loved the Alpine BL’s and the strat that went with them.

ANet is not going to abandon a brand new map. So..how best to utilize it? Far better to replace just one map with a new, albeit highly unpopular, map than to replace 3 entire maps with it.

Raf.1078:

lil devils x.6071:

Raf.1078:

Well then, they should just adjust the use of the new BL. Replace EB with the new BL map and rotate the 2 of them out ever 2 weeks or so. Bring back the Alpine maps for the Home BL’s. Maybe make the points gained from the Desert BL count more than the Alpine maps?

Now you have all 3 maps being utilized.

So your plan is since everyone hates the new BL maps and likes EB, you take away what they like and make it so they hate all the maps so they rage quit instead of play? This so reminds me of that manager that was fired from a store here recently who took away the most popular products in the store to try and make the people buy the unpopular ones so they left their carts and stopped shopping there instead and almost caused the store to close. Although they have hired a new manager now, the store will never be as busy as it once was due to customers refusing to shop there anymore over what that stupid manager did before.

What you propose is to lose customers permanently so the people who will " settle for whatever" use what is left after everyone else leaves. YIKES.

The assumption is on your part. You assume that EB is full because people like it. EB is full because it is a better option than the new BL’s right now. But not everyone likes the map.

Personally, I never played EB much until recently. I loved the Alpine BL’s and the strat that went with them.

ANet is not going to abandon a brand new map. So..how best to utilize it? Far better to replace just one map with a new, albeit highly unpopular, map than to replace 3 entire maps with it.

EB has always been more popular than the borderlands, now due to how bad the new maps are it is their only choice. You assume that EB is only popular due to the new maps.. it was always the most popular map, this just made it so people would rather play in LA at the bank than in a DBL map now.

The assumption is on your part that people do not want more maps like EB, why not just ask them? Put a poll up when people log into wvw what they would like. I already have been discussing this with many people so I already know what the answer will be.
You are suggesting kill WvW once and for all by removing EB. Unpopular = customers take their business elsewhere. It is a poor business decision.

I now think dester map is better as the new EB map and alpine for borderlands ….

The new BL’s are fine, and could be really amazing with some adjustments. Remove most (not all) of the vertical terrain and reduce most (not all) of the gimmicks.

Only my opinion.

Trajan.4953:

The new BL’s are fine, and could be really amazing with some adjustments. Remove most (not all) of the vertical terrain and reduce most (not all) of the gimmicks.

Only my opinion.

^this, still… people dont have place to hide if gets pushed (that is the true problem in new bl, they dont want to get organized and do all the path again), and keeps design would need a huge redesign.

Tzozef.9841:

Question to all you guys,

I think it’s been mentioned by people before to bring Alphine Borderlands back, which I feel for myself.

But what do you think prevents Anet from making this decision, I mean, why not?

Yes, getting Alpine back would bring back a lot of WvW community which left because they didn’t want to deal with the EotM-y / PvE-y new BL and don’t have time/patience for super long EB queues.

What is preventing Anet in saving WvW by listening to the playerbase and making this simple change back into the old system?
Yeah, probably foolish pride / fear of admitting own mistakes. Or worse, they are not even aware that there is a problem because them blatantly ignoring WvW game mode and the WvW community is just that extensive.

lil devils x.6071:

Raf.1078:

lil devils x.6071:

Raf.1078:

Well then, they should just adjust the use of the new BL. Replace EB with the new BL map and rotate the 2 of them out ever 2 weeks or so. Bring back the Alpine maps for the Home BL’s. Maybe make the points gained from the Desert BL count more than the Alpine maps?

Now you have all 3 maps being utilized.

So your plan is since everyone hates the new BL maps and likes EB, you take away what they like and make it so they hate all the maps so they rage quit instead of play? This so reminds me of that manager that was fired from a store here recently who took away the most popular products in the store to try and make the people buy the unpopular ones so they left their carts and stopped shopping there instead and almost caused the store to close. Although they have hired a new manager now, the store will never be as busy as it once was due to customers refusing to shop there anymore over what that stupid manager did before.

What you propose is to lose customers permanently so the people who will " settle for whatever" use what is left after everyone else leaves. YIKES.

The assumption is on your part. You assume that EB is full because people like it. EB is full because it is a better option than the new BL’s right now. But not everyone likes the map.

Personally, I never played EB much until recently. I loved the Alpine BL’s and the strat that went with them.

ANet is not going to abandon a brand new map. So..how best to utilize it? Far better to replace just one map with a new, albeit highly unpopular, map than to replace 3 entire maps with it.

EB has always been more popular than the borderlands, now due to how bad the new maps are it is their only choice. You assume that EB is only popular due to the new maps.. it was always the most popular map, this just made it so people would rather play in LA at the bank than in a DBL map now.

The assumption is on your part that people do not want more maps like EB, why not just ask them? Put a poll up when people log into wvw what they would like. I already have been discussing this with many people so I already know what the answer will be.
You are suggesting kill WvW once and for all by removing EB. Unpopular = customers take their business elsewhere. It is a poor business decision.

Well…lets ask here.

If Anet switched EB for the Desert Map and brought back the Alpine maps?

How do you folks feel about that?

Raf.1078:

lil devils x.6071:

Raf.1078:

lil devils x.6071:

Raf.1078:

Well then, they should just adjust the use of the new BL. Replace EB with the new BL map and rotate the 2 of them out ever 2 weeks or so. Bring back the Alpine maps for the Home BL’s. Maybe make the points gained from the Desert BL count more than the Alpine maps?

Now you have all 3 maps being utilized.

So your plan is since everyone hates the new BL maps and likes EB, you take away what they like and make it so they hate all the maps so they rage quit instead of play? This so reminds me of that manager that was fired from a store here recently who took away the most popular products in the store to try and make the people buy the unpopular ones so they left their carts and stopped shopping there instead and almost caused the store to close. Although they have hired a new manager now, the store will never be as busy as it once was due to customers refusing to shop there anymore over what that stupid manager did before.

What you propose is to lose customers permanently so the people who will " settle for whatever" use what is left after everyone else leaves. YIKES.

The assumption is on your part. You assume that EB is full because people like it. EB is full because it is a better option than the new BL’s right now. But not everyone likes the map.

Personally, I never played EB much until recently. I loved the Alpine BL’s and the strat that went with them.

ANet is not going to abandon a brand new map. So..how best to utilize it? Far better to replace just one map with a new, albeit highly unpopular, map than to replace 3 entire maps with it.

EB has always been more popular than the borderlands, now due to how bad the new maps are it is their only choice. You assume that EB is only popular due to the new maps.. it was always the most popular map, this just made it so people would rather play in LA at the bank than in a DBL map now.

The assumption is on your part that people do not want more maps like EB, why not just ask them? Put a poll up when people log into wvw what they would like. I already have been discussing this with many people so I already know what the answer will be.
You are suggesting kill WvW once and for all by removing EB. Unpopular = customers take their business elsewhere. It is a poor business decision.

And giving us the desert maps in place of the alpine maps was a “good” decision?

Well…lets ask here.

If Anet switched EB for the Desert Map and brought back the Alpine maps?

How do you folks feel about that?

Oh boy… people even consider swapping EBG for the new borderlands? Have you guys even noticed that EBG is the only place people go to other than EotM? If people go there instead of the desert borderlands, they certainly don’t want their preferred arena replaced by the map they chose to leave abandoned. If anything, the desert map belongs as an alternative map, like EotM.

But we probably won’t be seeing Alpine for a long time, if Chris Barrett’s post in the WvW forum means anything. Very sad. =(

(Keep voting for Alpine to come back, guys!)

Chris Barrett.3280:

• On the morning of Thursday, October 22nd, WvW will be terminating without completing or updating Glicko ratings as normal. This will be the end of the classic (“Alpine”) Borderlands maps for the foreseeable future.

Swift.1930:

If anything, the desert map belongs as an alternative map, like EotM.

I agree with that. I like the desert map. If only it could somehow coexist alongside alpine and eotm.

Why trade eb for that horrible mistake? The dessert bl is an abomination of anets ignorance. EB is the only thing keeping wvw alive.

While the general designe of Desert BL is ok, the gameplay is really awful: auto-upgrades, no WP, no need for defences as you’ll flip your structure back in a minute.

I’ve lost most interest in WvW, many enhancements have been made to the game, and this one is really disgusting me from that game mode.