Guild Wars 2

Is there any talk of setting supply to 0 when entering another WvW map? We’re all used to getting 15 before the new game starts and etc and that’s accepted as part of the game. That doesn’t really bother me.

What does get on my nerves is holding down a map despite the break out event and whatever other attempts an enemy makes and then BOOM hidden in their spawn 12 golems insta-port to your keep and despite the server’s best efforts your fully upgraded keeps melt. They never had a camp on the map for HOURS, and now here they are with a 1200 supply value army of golems.

Anyone else see this as a problem or is this just intended?

golem trains in general are a joke if there wasn’t any chance to scout them early enough. Once at the door it melts within seconds even if its reinforced without getting to much dmg. 2nd gate the same, 2-3 mesmer and they are there instantly while not even the 3min timer of a waypoint is free. 3 mins is more than enough to take a fully upgraded keep with a surprise attack (10-15 golems)

I suggested a while ago to limit the max amount of golems per side/map to lets say 5 to stop those senseless golem armys, esp if there are some omegas in you don’t even have a chance using siege against them (they wouldn’t be dead in time anyway with 250-300k hp). 5 are still a great dmg support but possible to defend – remember that people still can carry enough supply to build extra siege.

I’m completely fine with supply being carried around between maps and even across servers. Supply isn’t difficult to get anyway — just go to any camp on the map (even if you need to flip it first). Supply is an infinite resource.

Since players are unable to deposit their supply into keeps and towers it isn’t as though there’s teams of people granting more or less infinite repairs and siege for defense. Camps constantly spawn new supply for players to use and Dolyaks basically spawn free supply for keeps etc just by reaching the destination unmolested. I like that supply is readily available and all over the place.

I know this post is messy sounding but I don’t feel like putting much effort into it, sorry.

So wait, you own the whole map?

You have beaten them all the way back into thier spawn?

You have left them with absolutely nothing to work with?

You’re hiding in an upgraded tower at thier spawn?

And you’re mad they can actually get a foothold in that land?

lol… I have nothing to add your honor, the defense rests.

Kerithlan.1659:

I’m completely fine with supply being carried around between maps and even across servers. Supply isn’t difficult to get anyway — just go to any camp on the map (even if you need to flip it first). Supply is an infinite resource.

Since players are unable to deposit their supply into keeps and towers it isn’t as though there’s teams of people granting more or less infinite repairs and siege for defense. Camps constantly spawn new supply for players to use and Dolyaks basically spawn free supply for keeps etc just by reaching the destination unmolested. I like that supply is readily available and all over the place.

I know this post is messy sounding but I don’t feel like putting much effort into it, sorry.

Supply is not infinite. If you had 60 people drain a map, it would be TIME before you got more. That is a finite amount available.

Probably should reset when people switch BLs…

Musty.3148:

So wait, you own the whole map?

You have beaten them all the way back into thier spawn?

You have left them with absolutely nothing to work with?

You’re hiding in an upgraded tower at thier spawn?

And you’re mad they can actually get a foothold in that land?

lol… I have nothing to add your honor, the defense rests.

1. yes owning the whole map, its not easy to defend all supply camps as well as towers and keeps and get everything fully upgraded, even the camps.
2. no they keep trying to take supply camps and fail. We defend.
3. yes, thats the whole point isn’t it? this isn’t charity, it’s war.
4. yeah we just picked up and moved a tower to their spawn, surely you’ve moved fortifications around too right? eyeroll
5. Quite the opposite, the server worked hard to defend everything on the map.

Surely porting in and out to bring supply to a map is counter-intuitive to the idea of a vigorous defense. If the enemy cannot take and hold a single supply camp, they do not deserve to be able to build anything on that map. There is a reason why Golems have never been allowed to port between maps, why should the supply to build them be ferried between, the end result is the same.

Perhaps this should also be sent to our governments – which are even worse, because they even build their golems in their own lands before waypointing it to another land and faceroll it.

In short, seems reasonable enough to me. The only problem I see is that golems have forms of protection that other siege doesn’t have – particularly spawn areas.

Bringing in supplies from another map is an entirely valid strategy. In doing so, you are shifting focus away from the map you aim to strike by striking camps in other maps. The enemy turns its attention to the maps that actually show activity going on.

Golems cannot be built in spawn, same as any other deployed siege construction. They can only be built outside of spawn and then walked into spawn. If the enemy is building 5-10 golems outside their spawn and walking them in, then you’re not watching your enemy closely enough. A well-placed trebuchet and some defensive siege can destroy their efforts to build golems, you only need to know what you’re doing.

Any force that throws out a golem army to take a keep deserves that keep. They’ve spent 1 gold (or a LOT of time in puzzles) to get every golem. If they’ve put down an Omega, that’s on par with 5 gold. Any force that dishes out multiple Omega’s is draining themselves heavily on money for the chance to add greater damage to a siege. But this particular issue strays from the point I am trying to make.

War is about outsmarting your enemy, about being informed about your enemy, and about deceiving your enemy. If your enemy watches the dagger in your left hand, he is unprepared for the sword in your right, and further unprepared for the dagger strapped to the bottom of your shoe. Being able to prepare a high offense force without the enemy knowing is part of the advantage given to the people who think carefully about how to strike. Many real life militaries around the world attempt to use this tactic, and it works. World Versus World is a war within a game, and while it is still a game, it is also still a war. Strategy and Tactics are equally as important as Skill and Numbers.

^^^ Don’t forget you can buy siege with wvw badges. 100 per golem. (so no gold needed )

Plok.6145:

Kerithlan.1659:

I’m completely fine with supply being carried around between maps and even across servers. Supply isn’t difficult to get anyway — just go to any camp on the map (even if you need to flip it first). Supply is an infinite resource.

Since players are unable to deposit their supply into keeps and towers it isn’t as though there’s teams of people granting more or less infinite repairs and siege for defense. Camps constantly spawn new supply for players to use and Dolyaks basically spawn free supply for keeps etc just by reaching the destination unmolested. I like that supply is readily available and all over the place.

I know this post is messy sounding but I don’t feel like putting much effort into it, sorry.

Supply is not infinite. If you had 60 people drain a map, it would be TIME before you got more. That is a finite amount available.

Supply is very much in fact infinite. Unless you have 10-25 people sitting in every camp on the map spamming F until their knuckles develop cartilage tears, there is always supply available.

There’s two supply camps per team in EB, and six per team in borderlands. Either you need 50 people standing around in your camps in EB or you need 150 people in a borderland. If the camps aren’t upgraded or defended then sure supply becomes problematic, but in that case just get one person to solocap your camp (or roll through with a zerg, whatever, I don’t care) and you’re back in business.

You can’t argue that it’s finite because it respawns. You are incapable of preventing it from resupplying itself, and there is more than one place to get it from. If you’re pressured and need it for defense during a siege then it becomes finite as keeps/towers need to be supplied, but from camps themselves it’s like a magical ground spring that allows you to build cannons and magical robots.

The only thing that makes supply remotely finite is camp capacity. Standing around waiting for it is user error, not the game’s fault. It’s not as though there’s one big magical warehouse per team that everyone needs to use.

Darkhart.9142:

They never had a camp on the map for HOURS, and now here they are with a 1200 supply value army of golems.

Anyone else see this as a problem or is this just intended?

Wait this doesn’t make sense. You cannot build siege at spawn point, and you cannot port golems from one map to another. They have to be built, at the very least outside wp spawn point … Then the player gets in it and only THEN can they use it to get back to WP to park it.

How did they build it then without owning anything? Or were they building outside spawn somewhere and it was just missed? It can happen, the map is pretty big with many nooks.

Jayne.9251:

Darkhart.9142:

They never had a camp on the map for HOURS, and now here they are with a 1200 supply value army of golems.

Anyone else see this as a problem or is this just intended?

Wait this doesn’t make sense. You cannot build siege at spawn point, and you cannot port golems from one map to another. They have to be built, at the very least outside wp spawn point … Then the player gets in it and only THEN can they use it to get back to WP to park it.

How did they build it then without owning anything? Or were they building outside spawn somewhere and it was just missed? It can happen, the map is pretty big with many nooks.

That is exactly my point. They ported to other borderlands over and over to build this golem army. We weren’t spawn camping them but simply responding quickly to movement when there was any. After we had pushed them off the map and crushed their morale for hours we were down to about 12 – 15 of us holding the map.

1. My problem is not with golem armies
2. My problem is not with hiding golem armies
3. My problem is not with golem armies melting gates.

My problem is enemies never owning a camp for hourss and then a golem army comes out of their spawn.

Apparently from what I’m being told we should/have to spawn camp to make sure they can’t build any golems. Then we’re yelled at for being unsportsman like and I hate it also because I’m not their to kill people, I’m there to play a strategy game.

Well the golems are pretty big, they’re not hard to pick out from a distance. Having a scout near spawn to scout and not kill is fair. And one guy could alert map if he sees any construction…. Because they have to build on non spawn territory you can attack the builds.

Frankly I don’t have a problem with inter map supply … It’s just another layer to strategy.

And what you want to do if there are 10 people building it instant? Switching map with 10 ppl, come back and you got your golem (let’s say 11 in case it gets a bit dmg).
Next thing is that you can build them directly at your legendary defenders making it almost impossible to destroy without having any balists at your site (which would come close to spawn camping again).

Increase of the siege block buff would be a first solution to this special problem.

Shini.7542:

And what you want to do if there are 10 people building it instant? Switching map with 10 ppl, come back and you got your golem (let’s say 11 in case it gets a bit dmg).
Next thing is that you can build them directly at your legendary defenders making it almost impossible to destroy without having any balists at your site (which would come close to spawn camping again).

Increase of the siege block buff would be a first solution to this special problem.

Two people with supply can build a ballista, I don’t think it’s a big deal. A roaming scout party of 2-5 could handle any immediate threats and let the team know. I’m not trying to be insulting or belittling when I say that perhaps the answer is to train better scouts.

Darkhart.9142:

…
Anyone else see this as a problem or is this just intended?

I see no problem with it. They deserved your keep. Totally valid tactic and better than the stupid breakout event. How else do you expect them to regain a foothold.

Kerithlan.1659:

Supply is very much in fact infinite. Unless you have 10-25 people sitting in every camp on the map spamming F until their knuckles develop cartilage tears, there is always supply available.
…
The only thing that makes supply remotely finite is camp capacity. Standing around waiting for it is user error, not the game’s fault. It’s not as though there’s one big magical warehouse per team that everyone needs to use.

Time is finite, supply is generated in the camps over time. QED supply is finite.

Every reset for the first several hours (4-8 hours on tier 2) the maps are completely supply starved. Three 100 man zergs roaming around a map taking camps and battling over keeps/towers burns supply fast.

look, you can stand outside spawn and throw the plans back into spawn to be built. unless the enemy is being total kittens and spawn camping 100% of the time for all 3 exits for both servers, it is easy to port supply in and build at the exit threshold.

If a server is good enough to lock down an entire map and not even let a side flip a single camp, then the enemy should have no supply to build. common sense people.

No. You’re looking at wvw all wrong. It’s not 4 individual maps. It’s 1 giant map that is divided up for technical reasons. If you want to stop them from using supply then take every supply camp there is.

uhohhotdog.3598:

No. You’re looking at wvw all wrong. It’s not 4 individual maps. It’s 1 giant map that is divided up for technical reasons. If you want to stop them from using supply then take every supply camp there is.

if that were true then there would be no prohibition against porting golems between maps, so your logic fails right there.

I have mixed feelings on it. But in the end have to remember its one big war, all the points count toward the same total, so it seems fair enough. It’s not like you get 1 win for each map out of 4 then whoever wins the most maps wins. So if you want to stop someone bringing supply from another map, go to that map and whittle it down there too.