Guild Wars 2

Recently came back to the game, met some new friends who started and started a new guild.
There is no structured group composition in this guild right now, the aim of the guild is to run about 5 people.
At the moment we are average 2-5 people depending on the timezone.

However for the past 3 weeks since coming back I have not been having fun when roaming in WvW. I will simply outline the reasons why I think Roaming in WvW is a piece of (insert the word you like).

1. Condi pressure: It feels like there is no variety in the fights when it comes to roaming, it is a constant cycle of condition based thieves, and condition based mesmers. Admittedly, there are occasional Power Warriors.

When fighting in small scale group fights (5 or less), it is a constant cycle of condition based classes and condition based group compositions, notably epidemic spam from necromancers.

As a new guild with players still learning the game as well, this is not very fun to fight, we literally walk up to find a fight of relatively even numbers and the whole group is suddenly dumbfounded with conditions which we do not have enough cleanses for. This continues to be the case even when running a shout guardian with trooper runes.

2. Blast finishers do not benefit roaming: There are not enough beneficial skills that also happen to be blast finishers for roaming builds, as such we cannot take advantage of the light field blast finisher combo.

3. Thieves have way too much mobility, when they have low health they are able to run all the way till they are out of combat and then run all the way back in the fight when many of us still have cooldowns, this just seems unfair.

They are possible to kill with conditions but it is a nightmare to deal with when running power builds for many classes.

4. Warriors have way too much everything, its not like they are impossible to kill but after cycling through their high burst, defensive stances and crowd control, then they finally start running as if they Usain Bolt.

5. Mesmers and Usain Bolt Comparision: Speaking of which mesmers have the same thing combine blink with continuum split and they become Usain Bolt.

6. Druids also play like Thieves: I feel like there is way too much stealth on a class that already has access to range and mobility.

These encounters become problematic, because they become irritating to deal with especially when trying to develop a new roaming guild for a server that constantly has to deal with being outnumbered by higher tier servers. It is hard to keep players motivated when you get into a fight and its not even fun, hell sometimes the fight either does not last 10seconds due to the amount of conditions or it lasts like 10minutes due to the amount of mobility and stealth.

Yes there is always the option of ignoring those players but as soon as the opponent notices a new or inexperienced player in the guild they relentlessly chase after that player forcing them into combat. It is very stressful exhaustive and quite frankly not very fun to play. It actually makes me want to zerg or quit playing instead.

If condi builds, thieves, mesmers, warriors, and druids are all so OP… you could… try out condi builds, thieves, mesmers, warriors, or druids? If it’s the OP build that makes them win, if you have the build then you will win. Unless… could it be… it’s not the build, and they’re just better at WvW than you? No, surely not.

Balance on the small scale in WvW is poor at best, broken at worst. Anet do not care, Zerkers, DD, condi chronos are probably the worst offenders.

It takes player intervention in 5v5’s to preserve some semblance of balance by banning condi comps.

And then you have things like the 5 man mesmer distortion groups. How long was Ghost thief a thing? Like 6 months before Anet got around to balancing it and only because someone posted a vid of them killing a PvE boss mob with the build.

Yeah, roaming is a royal pain in the ass right now. In the last 2 weeks, I’ve seen one power Mesmer, two power Dragonhunters, 1 power Reaper and 1 power Berserker. Meanwhile, I’ve seen dozens of condi Mesmers, condi Druids, condi Reapers, condi Thieves and what have you.

As a result, I run as much condi cleanse as possible, but since they tend to have high def and high sustain, I can’t cleanse condis and also do damage before I run out of cleanses and am left at their mercy. If I do, they disengage (Mesmer/Thief/Druid) and either try again after a reset or assume I’m not going to follow and hit an objective.

There’s not much in the way of actual fighting. Just semi-passive condi applications, stealth and defense. They know all they have to do is outlast my CDs. Alternatively, a Reaper can just put so many condis on that I can’t possibly cleanse them all. I also can’t do meaningful damage in the length of any resistance I might have.

But, alas…Anet wanted to shift the meta to condis and here we are.

Sviel.7493:

Yeah, roaming is a royal pain in the ass right now. In the last 2 weeks, I’ve seen one power Mesmer, two power Dragonhunters, 1 power Reaper and 1 power Berserker. Meanwhile, I’ve seen dozens of condi Mesmers, condi Druids, condi Reapers, condi Thieves and what have you.

As a result, I run as much condi cleanse as possible, but since they tend to have high def and high sustain, I can’t cleanse condis and also do damage before I run out of cleanses and am left at their mercy. If I do, they disengage (Mesmer/Thief/Druid) and either try again after a reset or assume I’m not going to follow and hit an objective.

There’s not much in the way of actual fighting. Just semi-passive condi applications, stealth and defense. They know all they have to do is outlast my CDs. Alternatively, a Reaper can just put so many condis on that I can’t possibly cleanse them all. I also can’t do meaningful damage in the length of any resistance I might have.

But, alas…Anet wanted to shift the meta to condis and here we are.

If only power based players could hit them crits at 200+% with full wanderers gear.

Sister Saxifrage.7361:

If condi builds, thieves, mesmers, warriors, and druids are all so OP… you could… try out condi builds, thieves, mesmers, warriors, or druids? If it’s the OP build that makes them win, if you have the build then you will win. Unless… could it be… it’s not the build, and they’re just better at WvW than you? No, surely not.

That’s not necessarily that easy. Maybe the purpose of playing is not winning, but rather “have fun”. Of course, you have fun when you win, but you also need to play a build that appeals to you.

Unfortunately, a lot of WvW roamers don’t share this view, pick the cheesy build and voilà : bags and easy kills.

Sister Saxifrage.7361:

If condi builds, thieves, mesmers, warriors, and druids are all so OP… you could… try out condi builds, thieves, mesmers, warriors, or druids? If it’s the OP build that makes them win, if you have the build then you will win. Unless… could it be… it’s not the build, and they’re just better at WvW than you? No, surely not.

tldr; kill cheese with cheese.

The game isn’t balanced around 1v1. Certain classes and builds are going to dominate. Threads like this are why there can’t be open world pvp. People will just complain about how their class/build isn’t competitive around 1v1.

If you want to roam, play a roaming class/build. If you want to tank, play a tank class/build. If you want to zerg from range, play a ranged class/build. There are plenty of options for you.

Just gonna Chime in on this since you seem to fully understand the game mechanics of Resetting.

“3. Thieves have way too much mobility, when they have low health they are able to run all the way till they are out of combat and then run all the way back in the fight when many of us still have cooldowns, this just seems unfair.”

If a Thief Resets so do you, and if a Thief does run far enough away that you aren’t a threat they will have to Burn Initiative and CDs to re-engage, especially if you decide to it just stand in the one spot waiting for them to return.

Again if the Thief goes OOC so do you, simple game mechanics and design.

The game isn’t designed for roaming – it’s designed for large scale battles.

BlaqueFyre.5678:

Just gonna Chime in on this since you seem to fully understand the game mechanics of Resetting.

“3. Thieves have way too much mobility, when they have low health they are able to run all the way till they are out of combat and then run all the way back in the fight when many of us still have cooldowns, this just seems unfair.”

If a Thief Resets so do you, and if a Thief does run far enough away that you aren’t a threat they will have to Burn Initiative and CDs to re-engage, especially if you decide to it just stand in the one spot waiting for them to return.

Again if the Thief goes OOC so do you, simple game mechanics and design.

I wasn’t going to reply but I saw to many people that doesn’t understand things. It is common for a Thief to run out of combat and reset their health bar and still have the enemy they are attack still in combat with a condition on them. As for this so called burning initiative comment. I disagree again. It just takes the utility “shadow step” switch to short bow and cast “infiltrator’s arrow” then “shadow step” back and “steal”. Lets add up all that initiative. shadow step none, switching to short bow with the trait “quick pockets” lets make it a cost of two initiative because of the regain of the initiative from a second of time passing. Then we have shadow step again and that cost nothing. And as for the finishing touch steal. Oh wait kleptomaniac gives you two initiative back when stealing. Now lets add all the initiative cost…….. NONE. Oh yea I said nothing about dodging to so put that in the mix and you got a class that breaks the whole roaming system in wvw.

As for the person who said you cant balance a game just around pvp. People here pointing out a problem that is making roaming broken isn’t asking for what you claim we are asking. We are here for balance. One way to balance Thief’s and most stealth classes is making it so every time they come out of stealth they have to wait two seconds to go back in to stealth. This already is a thing IF they attack. But if they dont attack they can stealth right back up. So this is where I would say make it in and out of combat to set a reveal on them coming out of stealth.

BlaqueFyre.5678:

If a Thief Resets so do you, and if a Thief does run far enough away that you aren’t a threat they will have to Burn Initiative and CDs to re-engage, especially if you decide to it just stand in the one spot waiting for them to return.

There are exceptions to this. If it’s a condi thief (or condi anything), they’ll reset and you won’t until the last condi is cleared from you, plus a short delay. Also, if a small scale fight, the thief can easily remove himself from combat for the reset while the other enemies will keep you in.

As for CDs vs initiative, it’s not exactly an even comparison. Initiative gain is much faster than the CDs for most of the hard hitting skills and strong defenses. And then there’s Steal, of course.

In principle, I’m not actually opposed to thieves having some advantage in this regard (they certainly pay for it in other ways). But it does lead to boring fights and reward sloppy play when thieves effectively have unlimited do-overs if they want them, with the dead ones mostly being those too green to not overexpose themselves, or those unwilling to abuse the mechanic.

Choppy.4183:

BlaqueFyre.5678:

If a Thief Resets so do you, and if a Thief does run far enough away that you aren’t a threat they will have to Burn Initiative and CDs to re-engage, especially if you decide to it just stand in the one spot waiting for them to return.

There are exceptions to this. If it’s a condi thief (or condi anything), they’ll reset and you won’t until the last condi is cleared from you, plus a short delay. Also, if a small scale fight, the thief can easily remove himself from combat for the reset while the other enemies will keep you in.

As for CDs vs initiative, it’s not exactly an even comparison. Initiative gain is much faster than the CDs for most of the hard hitting skills and strong defenses. And then there’s Steal, of course.

In principle, I’m not actually opposed to thieves having some advantage in this regard (they certainly pay for it in other ways). But it does lead to boring fights and reward sloppy play when thieves effectively have unlimited do-overs if they want them, with the dead ones mostly being those too green to not overexpose themselves, or those unwilling to abuse the mechanic.

If a Condi from the Thief is on the opposing player even if they Try to OOC they will still be in combat, the games mechanics don’t magically stop working because someone is playing a Thief, that condition will keep the Thief in combat no matter how far away they are as long as it’s ticking……

And Initiative is tied to every skill and Steal is only a 1200 range which isn’t far enough distance to OOC and reset, they will burn at minimum 6 initiative every Infiltrators Arrow and possibly a 50 sec cd using Shadowstep, if they are trying to Re-engage and it will use more Initiative if the opponent has an iota of a brain and starts moving away when the Thief tries to OOC.

The lack of Game mechanic knowledge most players have are the reason balance in this game is so messed up, players that don’t know basic mechanics always cry for nerfs.

You talk about rewarding sloppy play, news flash every class has mechanics that reward Sloppy play, look at all the Invulns in game and all the Passives to include heals, Invulnerable, Cc reflects and stunbreaks.

jacksmith.6028:

The game isn’t designed for roaming – it’s designed for large scale battles.

Considering the insane lag any blob causes, this assertion is at best doubtful.

DaShi.1368:

The game isn’t balanced around 1v1. Certain classes and builds are going to dominate. Threads like this are why there can’t be open world pvp. People will just complain about how their class/build isn’t competitive around 1v1.

If you want to roam, play a roaming class/build. If you want to tank, play a tank class/build. If you want to zerg from range, play a ranged class/build. There are plenty of options for you.

It’s fine for certain classes to dominate, so long as there’s enough variety to keep things lively. Unfortunately, we have one subset dominating in both 1v1 and 5v5.

On top of that, the manner in which this domination happens makes for extremely uninteresting fights.

Sviel.7493:

DaShi.1368:

The game isn’t balanced around 1v1. Certain classes and builds are going to dominate. Threads like this are why there can’t be open world pvp. People will just complain about how their class/build isn’t competitive around 1v1.

If you want to roam, play a roaming class/build. If you want to tank, play a tank class/build. If you want to zerg from range, play a ranged class/build. There are plenty of options for you.

It’s fine for certain classes to dominate, so long as there’s enough variety to keep things lively. Unfortunately, we have one subset dominating in both 1v1 and 5v5.

On top of that, the manner in which this domination happens makes for extremely uninteresting fights.

Guardian, Necromancer, Revenant, Elementalist, and Lesser extent Warrior Dominate Guild/Zerg fights.

Thief, Druid, Mesmer, Warrioor and to a lesser extent Engineer are the Roaming Classes

See a trend that’s pretty good diversity.

BlaqueFyre.5678:

If a Condi from the Thief is on the opposing player even if they Try to OOC they will still be in combat, the games mechanics don’t magically stop working because someone is playing a Thief, that condition will keep the Thief in combat no matter how far away they are as long as it’s ticking……

And Initiative is tied to every skill and Steal is only a 1200 range which isn’t far enough distance to OOC and reset, they will burn at minimum 6 initiative every Infiltrators Arrow and possibly a 50 sec cd using Shadowstep, if they are trying to Re-engage and it will use more Initiative if the opponent has an iota of a brain and starts moving away when the Thief tries to OOC.

The lack of Game mechanic knowledge most players have are the reason balance in this game is so messed up, players that don’t know basic mechanics always cry for nerfs.

You talk about rewarding sloppy play, news flash every class has mechanics that reward Sloppy play, look at all the Invulns in game and all the Passives to include heals, Invulnerable, Cc reflects and stunbreaks.

I’m not so sure about previously applied condis keeping both people in combat. It’s been a long time since I experimented with them, but it certainly didn’t use to be that way and I expect it’s for the same reason that condi ticks don’t reveal stealth.

Could be wrong, but if it doesn’t work like that anymore, it’s been a stealth change.

As for the re-engage, I don’t know what to tell you. I regularly have thieves disengaging, resetting, and re-engaging with more than auto-attacks, and long before my own defenses are up. In fact, it’s a pretty smart way to fight less squishy opponents and very effective.

Of course, Shadowstep has Shadow Return, so there’s a 2400 roundtrip right there. Steal is 1200 and Shadow Shot is 900, so you’ve got an escape, return and re-engage of 2100 for the mere cost of 4 initiative. Steal, and Shadowstep without needing to take a single step. And there’s obviously more gas in the tank if more options or distance are needed.

I get wanting to defend Daredevil considering how much hate thief has generated since the game began, but you’ve gotta keep it real, man. Right or wrong, Daredevil is in a completely different league to every other class when it comes to the ability to reset and re-engage, and they’re often at an advantage (not a disadvantage) when they do, depending on who they’re fighting.

Choppy.4183:

BlaqueFyre.5678:

If a Condi from the Thief is on the opposing player even if they Try to OOC they will still be in combat, the games mechanics don’t magically stop working because someone is playing a Thief, that condition will keep the Thief in combat no matter how far away they are as long as it’s ticking……

And Initiative is tied to every skill and Steal is only a 1200 range which isn’t far enough distance to OOC and reset, they will burn at minimum 6 initiative every Infiltrators Arrow and possibly a 50 sec cd using Shadowstep, if they are trying to Re-engage and it will use more Initiative if the opponent has an iota of a brain and starts moving away when the Thief tries to OOC.

The lack of Game mechanic knowledge most players have are the reason balance in this game is so messed up, players that don’t know basic mechanics always cry for nerfs.

You talk about rewarding sloppy play, news flash every class has mechanics that reward Sloppy play, look at all the Invulns in game and all the Passives to include heals, Invulnerable, Cc reflects and stunbreaks.

I’m not so sure about previously applied condis keeping both people in combat. It’s been a long time since I experimented with them, but it certainly didn’t use to be that way and I expect it’s for the same reason that condi ticks don’t reveal stealth.

Could be wrong, but if it doesn’t work like that anymore, it’s been a stealth change.

As for the re-engage, I don’t know what to tell you. I regularly have thieves disengaging, resetting, and re-engaging with more than auto-attacks, and long before my own defenses are up. In fact, it’s a pretty smart way to fight less squishy opponents and very effective.

Of course, Shadowstep has Shadow Return, so there’s a 2400 roundtrip right there. Steal is 1200 and Shadow Shot is 900, so you’ve got an escape, return and re-engage of 2100 for the mere cost of 4 initiative. Steal, and Shadowstep without needing to take a single step. And there’s obviously more gas in the tank if more options or distance are needed.

I get wanting to defend Daredevil considering how much hate thief has generated since the game began, but you’ve gotta keep it real, man. Right or wrong, Daredevil is in a completely different league to every other class when it comes to the ability to reset and re-engage, and they’re often at an advantage (not a disadvantage) when they do, depending on who they’re fighting.

Damaging Conditions have always kept the applying player in combat since the Beginning of the Game, and Stealth not revealing on Condi Tick and staying in Combat are two completely different mechanics entirely, this highlights my second to last point in my post you are replying to.

Again if someone stays put for a Thief to easily re-engage is a l2p problem of the defending Player.

No Stealth changes to combat mechanics have changed in regards to Damaging conditions and OOC they have always kept players in combat until no more ticks are on the player and the players are far enough distance away, it has been this way since launch.and Shadow Return has a Short time to use which normally expires before the Thief OOCs let alone reset their health completely……..

BlaqueFyre.5678:

Damaging Conditions have always kept the applying player in combat since the Beginning of the Game, and Stealth not revealing on Condi Tick and staying in Combat are two completely different mechanics entirely, this highlights my second to last point in my post you are replying to.

Again if someone stays put for a Thief to easily re-engage is a l2p problem of the defending Player.

No Stealth changes to combat mechanics have changed in regards to Damaging conditions and OOC they have always kept players in combat until no more ticks are on the player and the players are far enough distance away, it has been this way since launch.and Shadow Return has a Short time to use which normally expires before the Thief OOCs let alone reset their health completely……..

Lol, well, I used to use the technique of applying conditions on people, disengaging, resetting, and re-engaging back in Year 2, so I can say for certain that you’re wrong.

Also, if you don’t know how to disengage and easily re-engage on a thief, maybe you’re the one with the l2p issue. It’s seriously not that hard, and some people have made a cottage industry of it.

10 sec on Shadow Return is plenty of time. If you’re not going to keep it real, then you’re killing your own credibility.

Choppy.4183:

BlaqueFyre.5678:

Damaging Conditions have always kept the applying player in combat since the Beginning of the Game, and Stealth not revealing on Condi Tick and staying in Combat are two completely different mechanics entirely, this highlights my second to last point in my post you are replying to.

Again if someone stays put for a Thief to easily re-engage is a l2p problem of the defending Player.

No Stealth changes to combat mechanics have changed in regards to Damaging conditions and OOC they have always kept players in combat until no more ticks are on the player and the players are far enough distance away, it has been this way since launch.and Shadow Return has a Short time to use which normally expires before the Thief OOCs let alone reset their health completely……..

Lol, well, I used to use the technique of applying conditions on people, disengaging, resetting, and re-engaging back in Year 2, so I can say for certain that you’re wrong.

Also, if you don’t know how to disengage and easily re-engage on a thief, maybe you’re the one with the l2p issue. It’s seriously not that hard, and some people have made a cottage industry of it.

Seeing how I have played his game since launch, it’s hasn’t changed at all, it just sounds like you don’t know basic game mechanics in the slightest. Sort you haven’t noticed mechanics that have been in game since launch.

And nope and I saying I have issues with Thief Disengaging? Nope, I just don’t try to portray something as not being affected by basic Game mechanics, all I see is you complaining about it so you seem to have some l2p issues to work on.

Thieves aren’t this all powerful boogey man that can’t be killed, players just need to learn basic mechanics that have been in game since launch.

BlaqueFyre.5678:

Seeing how I have played his game since launch, it’s hasn’t changed at all, it just sounds like you don’t know basic game mechanics in the slightest. Sort you haven’t noticed mechanics that have been in game since launch.

And nope and I saying I have issues with Thief Disengaging? Nope, I just don’t try to portray something as not being affected by basic Game mechanics, all I see is you complaining about it so you seem to have some l2p issues to work on.

Thieves aren’t this all powerful boogey man that can’t be killed, players just need to learn basic mechanics that have been in game since launch.

And I’ve played since the beginning as well. Except I’ve actually used the technique, and you’re just sure it’s never worked that way.

And I haven’t complained about Thief here, and I even said that it should have advantage on this front. I just put two caveats on something you said, then started to call out the silliness of some of your responses, and you couldn’t handle it.

Sad, really. I’ve read your comments before, and I thought you were better than that.

HoT power creep has pretty much ruined small-scale WvW.

And no, sPvP is not a good option to get your small-scale fix with that horrible capture point mode.

Choppy.4183:

BlaqueFyre.5678:

Seeing how I have played his game since launch, it’s hasn’t changed at all, it just sounds like you don’t know basic game mechanics in the slightest. Sort you haven’t noticed mechanics that have been in game since launch.

And nope and I saying I have issues with Thief Disengaging? Nope, I just don’t try to portray something as not being affected by basic Game mechanics, all I see is you complaining about it so you seem to have some l2p issues to work on.

Thieves aren’t this all powerful boogey man that can’t be killed, players just need to learn basic mechanics that have been in game since launch.

And I’ve played since the beginning as well. Except I’ve actually used the technique, and you’re just sure it doesn’t work that way.

And I haven’t complained about Thief here, and I even said that it should have advantage on this front. I just put two caveats on something you said, then started to call out the silliness of some of your responses, and you couldn’t handle it.

Sad, really. I’ve read your comments before, and I thought you were better than that.

It sounds like you need to go back and check they never changed how Damaging Conditions keep both players in combat, and your comparison on why Condi ticks doesn’t reveal Stealthed players and Condi ticks not keep Players in combat just shows how much you don’t know about basic game mechanics, Anet puts all Combat Changes into patch notes go back and see if it is in any balance patch that it was changed, you won’t find it, and even the wiki back in 2013 when they added the section on all the affects of Combat Mode mentions any damage done keeps players in combat, then was clarified later in 2014…….

BlaqueFyre.5678:

Guardian, Necromancer, Revenant, Elementalist, and Lesser extent Warrior Dominate Guild/Zerg fights.

Thief, Druid, Mesmer, Warrioor and to a lesser extent Engineer are the Roaming Classes

See a trend that’s pretty good diversity.

Of classes, sure. In terms of what they do, roaming is overwhelmingly condi.

I am still not seeing all of these condition based thieves when roaming. I spend virtually all my time roaming and usually on one of my thieves or my warrior and the most roamers i see that are condition are mesmers.

I do not think I have seen a condition based thief roaming in the past week. Lots of power thieves, 80 percent still d/p. I have 5 different thieves and one of them condition based pd. Many the night he about the only one I know of on the map.

As to a thief not having cooldowns that is absolute nonsense. They use an INI system meaning once INI burned off ALL skills are on cooldown. Unlike other classes that can switch to another weapon and gain 4 new ready to go skills, a thief who has burned his FINITE ini when switching weapons can only use AA until that INI comes back.

Outside of those weapon skills, the utility skills have cooldowns just as every other class.

If you are cognizant of the fact it only AA attacks he has left, then play that way. If I am on my warrior and said thief breaks off the battle for too long a time, I get a great chunk of health back just through signet ticks. A good number of my weapon skills are on low cooldowns , fully 50 percent of the Non AA ones at less then 10 seconds.

When it comes to those WEAPON skills that are on cooldown, when my warrior has a multitude on cooldown they all tick down at the same time meaning ALL of them become ready for use earlier. When a thief tries to recover INI that same INI has to used for every ini based skill. It is every bit a disadvantage as it as an advantage.

Sviel.7493:

BlaqueFyre.5678:

Guardian, Necromancer, Revenant, Elementalist, and Lesser extent Warrior Dominate Guild/Zerg fights.

Thief, Druid, Mesmer, Warrioor and to a lesser extent Engineer are the Roaming Classes

See a trend that’s pretty good diversity.

Of classes, sure. In terms of what they do, roaming is overwhelmingly condi.

Subjective observation. I still see the majority of roamers as being power.

On the server I play Rangers, Thieves, warriors and Mesmers are the majority of roamers. Rangers , thief and warrior power still dominate in numbers and mesmer condition dominates.

If the other classes are seen roaming (much less frequent) The DH is generally power though I have seen a few more burn builds of late, Necro condi . (since the changes to bleed there also more of these)

Engies I do not see a lot but there more condi of late. Ele and rev just not enough seen.

BlaqueFyre.5678:

Choppy.4183:

BlaqueFyre.5678:

Damaging Conditions have always kept the applying player in combat since the Beginning of the Game, and Stealth not revealing on Condi Tick and staying in Combat are two completely different mechanics entirely, this highlights my second to last point in my post you are replying to.

Again if someone stays put for a Thief to easily re-engage is a l2p problem of the defending Player.

No Stealth changes to combat mechanics have changed in regards to Damaging conditions and OOC they have always kept players in combat until no more ticks are on the player and the players are far enough distance away, it has been this way since launch.and Shadow Return has a Short time to use which normally expires before the Thief OOCs let alone reset their health completely……..

Lol, well, I used to use the technique of applying conditions on people, disengaging, resetting, and re-engaging back in Year 2, so I can say for certain that you’re wrong.

Also, if you don’t know how to disengage and easily re-engage on a thief, maybe you’re the one with the l2p issue. It’s seriously not that hard, and some people have made a cottage industry of it.

Seeing how I have played his game since launch, it’s hasn’t changed at all, it just sounds like you don’t know basic game mechanics in the slightest. Sort you haven’t noticed mechanics that have been in game since launch.

And nope and I saying I have issues with Thief Disengaging? Nope, I just don’t try to portray something as not being affected by basic Game mechanics, all I see is you complaining about it so you seem to have some l2p issues to work on.

Thieves aren’t this all powerful boogey man that can’t be killed, players just need to learn basic mechanics that have been in game since launch.

The game hasnt changed since launch? Really? Wvw now is NOTHING like it was at the beggining and nowhere as fun.

miguelsil.6324:

BlaqueFyre.5678:

Choppy.4183:

BlaqueFyre.5678:

Damaging Conditions have always kept the applying player in combat since the Beginning of the Game, and Stealth not revealing on Condi Tick and staying in Combat are two completely different mechanics entirely, this highlights my second to last point in my post you are replying to.

Again if someone stays put for a Thief to easily re-engage is a l2p problem of the defending Player.

No Stealth changes to combat mechanics have changed in regards to Damaging conditions and OOC they have always kept players in combat until no more ticks are on the player and the players are far enough distance away, it has been this way since launch.and Shadow Return has a Short time to use which normally expires before the Thief OOCs let alone reset their health completely……..

Lol, well, I used to use the technique of applying conditions on people, disengaging, resetting, and re-engaging back in Year 2, so I can say for certain that you’re wrong.

Also, if you don’t know how to disengage and easily re-engage on a thief, maybe you’re the one with the l2p issue. It’s seriously not that hard, and some people have made a cottage industry of it.

Seeing how I have played his game since launch, it’s hasn’t changed at all, it just sounds like you don’t know basic game mechanics in the slightest. Sort you haven’t noticed mechanics that have been in game since launch.

And nope and I saying I have issues with Thief Disengaging? Nope, I just don’t try to portray something as not being affected by basic Game mechanics, all I see is you complaining about it so you seem to have some l2p issues to work on.

Thieves aren’t this all powerful boogey man that can’t be killed, players just need to learn basic mechanics that have been in game since launch.

The game hasnt changed since launch? Really? Wvw now is NOTHING like it was at the beggining and nowhere as fun.

Reading comprehension must be hard. I stated that the OOC mechanic hasn’t changed in regards to Damaging Conditions keeping both players in combat until the Condis are removed/expired since launch, all major game mechanics changes (which that would be one if it changed) would be in the patch notes.

miguelsil.6324:

BlaqueFyre.5678:

Choppy.4183:

BlaqueFyre.5678:

Damaging Conditions have always kept the applying player in combat since the Beginning of the Game, and Stealth not revealing on Condi Tick and staying in Combat are two completely different mechanics entirely, this highlights my second to last point in my post you are replying to.

Again if someone stays put for a Thief to easily re-engage is a l2p problem of the defending Player.

No Stealth changes to combat mechanics have changed in regards to Damaging conditions and OOC they have always kept players in combat until no more ticks are on the player and the players are far enough distance away, it has been this way since launch.and Shadow Return has a Short time to use which normally expires before the Thief OOCs let alone reset their health completely……..

Lol, well, I used to use the technique of applying conditions on people, disengaging, resetting, and re-engaging back in Year 2, so I can say for certain that you’re wrong.

Also, if you don’t know how to disengage and easily re-engage on a thief, maybe you’re the one with the l2p issue. It’s seriously not that hard, and some people have made a cottage industry of it.

Seeing how I have played his game since launch, it’s hasn’t changed at all, it just sounds like you don’t know basic game mechanics in the slightest. Sort you haven’t noticed mechanics that have been in game since launch.

And nope and I saying I have issues with Thief Disengaging? Nope, I just don’t try to portray something as not being affected by basic Game mechanics, all I see is you complaining about it so you seem to have some l2p issues to work on.

Thieves aren’t this all powerful boogey man that can’t be killed, players just need to learn basic mechanics that have been in game since launch.

The game hasnt changed since launch? Really? Wvw now is NOTHING like it was at the beggining and nowhere as fun.

Generally all games are more"fun" on launch. When I first started GW2 I found the open world Pve fun with all the new lands to explore and skills to try . I took each and every class through levels one by one to learn them. Leveling was fun. Getting a new skill or trait was fun.

After a while it not so much so. It the nature of the beast. it my opinion a great chunk of this “it was better back then” stuff is just remembering the newness of it all.

babazhook.6805:

Sviel.7493:

BlaqueFyre.5678:

Guardian, Necromancer, Revenant, Elementalist, and Lesser extent Warrior Dominate Guild/Zerg fights.

Thief, Druid, Mesmer, Warrioor and to a lesser extent Engineer are the Roaming Classes

See a trend that’s pretty good diversity.

Of classes, sure. In terms of what they do, roaming is overwhelmingly condi.

Subjective observation. I still see the majority of roamers as being power.

On the server I play Rangers, Thieves, warriors and Mesmers are the majority of roamers. Rangers , thief and warrior power still dominate in numbers and mesmer condition dominates.

If the other classes are seen roaming (much less frequent) The DH is generally power though I have seen a few more burn builds of late, Necro condi . (since the changes to bleed there also more of these)

Engies I do not see a lot but there more condi of late. Ele and rev just not enough seen.

That’s great for you, I guess. What server is that?

I don’t have the data to give an objective statement, but based on the numerous subjective statements given, I have confidence that I haven’t simply been mislead by my own experiences.

Sviel.7493:

babazhook.6805:

Sviel.7493:

BlaqueFyre.5678:

Guardian, Necromancer, Revenant, Elementalist, and Lesser extent Warrior Dominate Guild/Zerg fights.

Thief, Druid, Mesmer, Warrioor and to a lesser extent Engineer are the Roaming Classes

See a trend that’s pretty good diversity.

Of classes, sure. In terms of what they do, roaming is overwhelmingly condi.

Subjective observation. I still see the majority of roamers as being power.

On the server I play Rangers, Thieves, warriors and Mesmers are the majority of roamers. Rangers , thief and warrior power still dominate in numbers and mesmer condition dominates.

If the other classes are seen roaming (much less frequent) The DH is generally power though I have seen a few more burn builds of late, Necro condi . (since the changes to bleed there also more of these)

Engies I do not see a lot but there more condi of late. Ele and rev just not enough seen.

That’s great for you, I guess. What server is that?

I don’t have the data to give an objective statement, but based on the numerous subjective statements given, I have confidence that I haven’t simply been mislead by my own experiences.

I am on HOD always have been, I have found that at higher tiers the meta changes and in fact the number of roamers dwindles,. I am not suggesting your own observations not accurate. I am stating that they are your own, just as mine are my own.

I still want to see all those condition thieves people talk about. Last week we fought blackgate and I do not recall much in the way of condition thieves,

I object to people claiming the roaming meta is conditions just as I would to people stating “no one likes the desert bordlerlands”. Over the next week , as I roam, I will try and make a point of tallying the types of builds I encounter be it condition or power. I think part of the problem might well be a bias in that when a person advances a given point of view only the examples that confirm the same are the ones they remember.

babazhook.6805:

I still want to see all those condition thieves people talk about. Last week we fought blackgate and I do not recall much in the way of condition thieves,

I’m fighting Blackgate this week and ran into three separate condi thieves yesterday while roaming in what was largely a deserted bl. In fact, BG is the most condi heavy server I’ve come across in a long time.

That said, I’d be surprised if condi thieves were even half of the total number of thieves on any server. They’re more common than they were a year ago, but power is much more common from what I’ve seen.

The elite specializations are the mane broken mechanic in roaming and wvw. Most classes simply got a +1 to them for going there elite spec with out losing any thing.

None dmg conditions applied to a enemy will keep them in combat where as the Thief can get out of range and reset his/her health coming out of combat. End of story. If you disagree I would say get off your lazy arss and go test it noobs.

Choppy.4183:

babazhook.6805:

I still want to see all those condition thieves people talk about. Last week we fought blackgate and I do not recall much in the way of condition thieves,

I’m fighting Blackgate this week and ran into three separate condi thieves yesterday while roaming in what was largely a deserted bl. In fact, BG is the most condi heavy server I’ve come across in a long time.

That said, I’d be surprised if condi thieves were even half of the total number of thieves on any server. They’re more common than they were a year ago, but power is much more common from what I’ve seen.

Which are you seeing in the way of theives.? P/d or d/d condition?

By the way this week we face maguuma and TC. I tend to be online when populations lower so am trying this exercise.

I am going to count all roamers of the enemy I encounter so as to get an assessment of the profession and build type. I am going to use the following rules.

1>I will refrain from double counts. If I encounter a human thief as example that is power, and encounter a human thief power later ankitten ot certain it different, I will not count a second time. Race and style of dress should be enough to ensure they not the same.

2>I will consider roaming any group encountered 3 or less. If there more then three I will not count what they are. If a given player flees or is killed before i can ascertain build type, I will not count one way or the other.

3>I will pick random times of the day when I am on and there seems a population large enough roaming wise to make this worthwhile. I will tally the first ten I see of any type per iteration and do this a sum total of 10 times.

4>it possible I will encounter a hybrid type build.If I am unsure as to whether a given build power/condition I will not count it.

I always keep a list of enemies I encounter along with their guilds, the objectives they hit, any patterns of objective taking, their builds and a physical description. Thus, I know it’s not personal bias that the people I encountered in my last play session were almost all condi. Unfortunately, I keep this list by hand on a dry-erase board (I was burning too much scratch paper q_q) and I use it often, so the list doesn’t last long after a play session.

I should note that the low ratio of power thieves was unusual. I don’t see a ton of thieves but they’re more likely to be power than mesmer/necro/ranger/etc.

Also, I encountered all of these people on the borderlands. I sometimes visit EBG but it’s a very different culture and possibly a substantially different local meta.

edit: Servers are JQ and FA. I wasn’t playing a ton vs BG last week and I don’t honestly remember them having a bunch of roamers.

Lionwait.4815:

None dmg conditions applied to a enemy will keep them in combat where as the Thief can get out of range and reset his/her health coming out of combat. End of story. If you disagree I would say get off your lazy arss and go test it noobs.

Oh no a non damagaing condition that lasts maybe 2 seconds not to include any passive cleanses that can cleanse them or The Meta Thief build also applies more poison than it does non damaging conditions…., since only Condi builds will last longer on non Damaging and if that’s the case …… smh people

I ran a one test iteration and was rather surprised at the early results. More to come but taking a break. This all since my post at 13:41. (around an hour in game)

I roamed home HOD BL and tallied the number of UNIQUE encounter builds I came across.

2 Power thieves
2 Power warriors
1 Power mesmer
2 condition mesmer
1 ele power
1 ranger power
1 DH power

All of these encounters but one were singletons encountered. That one other had two enemy in the group. Given all of the threads started about all those condition builds roaming, I expected more. I will run this test 9 more times as much to confirm my own observations as it is to verify the claim that the majority of roamers are condition builds that are being made by others.

babazhook.6805:

Which are you seeing in the way of theives.? P/d or d/d condition?

P/d. Haven’t seen d/d condi in a bunch of months.

Choppy.4183:

babazhook.6805:

Which are you seeing in the way of theives.? P/d or d/d condition?

P/d. Haven’t seen d/d condi in a bunch of months.

Ok , I do play one of those so try and make it a point to note others when I see them as there so few of the same. They tend to stick out like a sore thumb when they do show.

I quite agree that d/d condition rarely seen. I can not recall the last one.

Epidemic needs to be reworked, condition-based mesmers need reduced potency on some of the effects which produce confusion and condition-based builds inherently need to be inherently less tanky across the board. I have no issues with the damage conditions do, that’s kind of the point.

Personally if I were designing ongoing damage in a real-time RPG the damage per tick would be higher across the board but all professions would have more answers to dealing with those conditions. It would improve the skill involved in actively responding to different types of attacks while reducing those situations where you’ve got 8 conditions on you, have limited removal and can only go “welp, nothing I can do in the next four seconds to deal with this. gg.”

~ Kovu

Sister Saxifrage.7361:

If condi builds, thieves, mesmers, warriors, and druids are all so OP… you could… try out condi builds, thieves, mesmers, warriors, or druids? If it’s the OP build that makes them win, if you have the build then you will win. Unless… could it be… it’s not the build, and they’re just better at WvW than you? No, surely not.

Says to use the OP build then says the player is not good because he doesn’t use the OP build, then goes on to say they are just better than you yet still use the OP build?

All over the place bud.

Um just to add to this OOC discussion and resetting, you do not reset if you have a non damage condition on you like blind, weakness, chill, cripple and immobilise. The enemy so long as they are clean of conditions and sufficient distance will reset and start regaining health while you remain in combat. Doesn’t matter what class just one of those weird things, not sure it’s the same with damaging conditions though as they do damage and so I believe they keep the owner in combat.

I do think if some of you are willing to co-operate you can make a video showing the way OOC works for everyone to be a little more enlightened from rather than throwing back thinly veiled insults and waving that thing in your pants around.

Chorazin.4107:

Balance on the small scale in WvW is poor at best, broken at worst. Anet do not care, Zerkers, DD, condi chronos are probably the worst offenders.

It takes player intervention in 5v5’s to preserve some semblance of balance by banning condi comps.

And then you have things like the 5 man mesmer distortion groups. How long was Ghost thief a thing? Like 6 months before Anet got around to balancing it and only because someone posted a vid of them killing a PvE boss mob with the build.

Dont even get me started on how broken mesmer is in wvw. They’ll never fix it though cuz supposedly its bad in pve. Chances are it will become even more godmode than it is already because of that to the point where it becomes pointless to play anything besides mesmer in wvw. Its almost at that point already. The distortion thing will never get fixed because that’s something that mesmers use to cheese boss mechanics in raids and they don’t seem to have a problem with that. As for the overwhelming amount of damage they do with both condi and power, it will probably just get buffed even more since they’re the lowest dps in pve. This is why we desperately need separate balance from pve.

I don’t find the class balance terrible when roaming, the real problem are the players who feel they should build siege to hit a small group fight.

Drinks.2361:

I don’t find the class balance terrible when roaming, the real problem are the players who feel they should build siege to hit a small group fight.

aww, but that’s funny when it happens. It makes me feel special, like they think im such a threat they need siege to fight me. I had 2 thieves and a ranger try unsuccessfully to kill me the other day before running into a nearby camp and building a ballista to shoot at me. That made my day.

Second run home BL again , this much later at night. I did see a thief condition build.

1 thief Condition
2 thief power
1 ele power
1 warrior power
I Guardian Condition
1 engineer power
1 warrior condition
1 necro condition
1 DH power.

These were 3 4 singletons and the remaining 6 3 groups of two. Two of the groups of two had 2 condition builds each and were rather nasty.

1. Roaming has always seen condi builds that blast you with condi bombs. It’s not a new thing, you have to go back to early days of 2012 and early 2013 to not encounter them. Fighting condis can be annoying when solo or dual-roaming, but it shouldn’t be an excuse when roaming with 3-5 people, there is plenty of AoE condi cleansing across all professions. Just to let you know how old it is, condi mesmers exist since June 2013, and back then they were more annoying than now.

2. It’s not like blasting doesn’t benefit roaming, it’s it has unlimited stacking potential so the performance of each blast has to be small, otherwise blasting fields would be broken. But even how it is now, your can still take advantage in many ways like healing bursts, might stacking or group stealthing.

3. Thieves are designed this way. They shine at roaming, but at expenses of being the worst profession at zerguing and not having role variety. They are annoying but with time you learn to deal with them.

4. Warriors are in a similar position than thieves. The excel at roaming for having such crazy burst potential and mobility, but once the burned all their defenses they are nothing better than meat for lions. Again, when you learn how to deal with them they are easy to deal with, it’s one of the most predictable classes out there.

5. You are wrong here. Mesmer are not Usain Bolt, in fact we are crippled people against athletes. Mesmer are one of the slowest professions out there. They have insane combat mobility, but when they have to run or chase they are the worst at it.

6. Yes druids have a bit too much stealth, but 99% of the times people playing them are the worst players you could face. All you have to do is pay attention to overtuned pets attacks and then you will eat druid for breakfast, lunch and dinner. Because the players behind them don’t know how to fight.

All these issues are common for beginners at WvW. This game mode is not meant to be fair, crazy plays and overtuned things are a characteristic of WvW. And I have to say it, such thing is why WvW is so loved and can be so epic. Look WvW gw2 videos in Youtube, most are about small scale WvW fights from people killing enemies when being outnumbered.

With time you and your team will learn to adapt to how WvW works.

WvW roaming is very much the epitome of “the school of hard knocks”.

Best thing you can do is join an experienced group and learn the ropes before going it alone like you have…vets in wvw can smell noobie blood like sharks.

Also, keep in mind that enemies can see your wvw rank and buffs/debuffs. Weak links can easily be identified and focused down. My friends and I regularly go into fights saying things like “silver invader Druid is terrible, blow him up first.”