Guild Wars 2

RIP Bannerinos.

http://www.twitch.tv/guildwars2/v/36989122?t=38m04s

Thank god…

It was getting ridiculous, fighting a zerg who was using three Dragon banners, now with these adjustments, perhaps more self reliance and less, banner spam…

Why didn’t they stick with the original plan of just letting us have 1 and having it despawn every 15 mins?

In my opinion, they should have been limited in the same manner as Charr Cars. Perhaps keep only.

good riddance to this garbage, even though they arent being done away with hopefully they will see a lot less use, enough with the gimmick/siege wars

Would be nice if they added 250hp degen per second to the banner carrier, -66% movement speed, maybe 10 stacks of confusion each time a skill is used?

Edit: On second thought, how about a Garbage Aura instead? All nearby allies within 1500 range suffer from 50 stacks of poison. Reapplied, of course, each time a skill is used.

Edit2: Sarcastic Kittens are out of the bag…

This is a LTD issue… LEARN TO DESIGN.

Sad to see anet cater to the noobs complaining. The counter to this banner was having a working brain.

Cake.4920:

Sad to see anet cater to the noobs complaining. The counter to this banner was having a working brain.

I don’t think they’re catering to noobs. I think JC admitted a mistake ( he called the banners “nukes”) and they nerfed them down. Personally I’d be happier with garbage like that removed, but oh well.

Maybe they’re catering to the noobs that like the banners? I stopped dying to the garbage banners once I realized what was going on. LOL, at first I thought it was Revenant or some other new Elite spec doing all that damage.

Fellfoot.8156:

Maybe they’re catering to the noobs that like the banners?.

I’m not sure what you mean by this.

To me, the dragon banner is an anti-blob/anti-noob zerg weapon. Unfortunately, the majority of the remaining WvWers are terrible at this game, so when they get killed by one they complain instead of learning to adapt. When you create something designed to punish the majority of your playerbase, you’re going to get a lot of complaints even if its overall more healthy for the game. Anet succumbed to the pressure and appeased the masses, further casualizing the game in the process.

Cake.4920:

Sad to see anet cater to the noobs complaining. The counter to this banner was having a working brain.

Banners are frequently hard to see. With Turtle Banners noobs has nothing to do with it. As for Dragon the darn thing hits like a truck and in the middle of a big fight with graphics overload it can be easy to miss until it drops a nuke on players.

Straegen.2938:

Cake.4920:

Sad to see anet cater to the noobs complaining. The counter to this banner was having a working brain.

Banners are frequently hard to see. With Turtle Banners noobs has nothing to do with it. As for Dragon the darn thing hits like a truck and in the middle of a big fight with graphics overload it can be easy to miss until it drops a nuke on players.

Working brain not detected.

Cake.4920:

Fellfoot.8156:

Maybe they’re catering to the noobs that like the banners?.

I’m not sure what you mean by this.

To me, the dragon banner is an anti-blob/anti-noob zerg weapon. Unfortunately, the majority of the remaining WvWers are terrible at this game, so when they get killed by one they complain instead of learning to adapt. When you create something designed to punish the majority of your playerbase, you’re going to get a lot of complaints even if its overall more healthy for the game. Anet succumbed to the pressure and appeased the masses, further casualizing the game in the process.

Well now use your own brain. Anti blob weapon? If a small group has access to them as an anti blob, the blob can have double banners as the small group.

This logic…

Offair.2563:

Cake.4920:

Fellfoot.8156:

Maybe they’re catering to the noobs that like the banners?.

I’m not sure what you mean by this.

To me, the dragon banner is an anti-blob/anti-noob zerg weapon. Unfortunately, the majority of the remaining WvWers are terrible at this game, so when they get killed by one they complain instead of learning to adapt. When you create something designed to punish the majority of your playerbase, you’re going to get a lot of complaints even if its overall more healthy for the game. Anet succumbed to the pressure and appeased the masses, further casualizing the game in the process.

Well now use your own brain. Anti blob weapon? If a small group has access to them as an anti blob, the blob can have double banners as the small group.

This logic…

Just because blobs can use banners doesn’t mean they aren’t also anti-blob weapons. The most potent banner effects (dragon banner 5 especially) are all large ground-based aoes, which naturally are more deadly to larger uncoordinated groups than smaller coordinated ones (you’re more likely to catch the larger group in the bomb). Also I use the term blob to imply a lack of coordination; in my mind a blob is unlikely to have a dedicated pick team with a moa mesmer, something more coordinated groups all seem to have lately as anti-banner defense.

That said I mostly agree with the changes Tuesday. Banners are potent because they exceed the 5 player aoe cap, they didn’t necessarily need a ton of damage (especially dragon banner, although I think 40% reduction on the 5 skill is an overnerf). And the fact that they could be used twice on chronos was problematic. Now the only remaining problem is that they are a stupid easy counter to catas/rams, especially dragon banner 5. They need to remove the ability for dragon banner 5 to damage catas/rams, it is way too potent of a counter to them, way more than siege disablers.

Simple question in the early design phase should have been: “Would this be a good idea in sPvP?”

Cake.4920:

Sad to see anet cater to the noobs complaining. The counter to this banner was having a working brain.

Aww your only tool you used to kill people is getting nerfed. Looks like you’ll have to learn to fight or roll a rev and spam 2.. Takes a working brain to realize this shouldn’t even have been added in its current state..

If you don’t like blobs, go play spvp.

Your try-hard posturing impresses no one.

Cerby.1069:

Straegen.2938:

Cake.4920:

Sad to see anet cater to the noobs complaining. The counter to this banner was having a working brain.

Banners are frequently hard to see. With Turtle Banners noobs has nothing to do with it. As for Dragon the darn thing hits like a truck and in the middle of a big fight with graphics overload it can be easy to miss until it drops a nuke on players.

Working brain not detected.

Need for OP crutch detected.

If WvW is so kitten clogged with “noobs” as you guys say it is then you shouldn’t need such a tool to win. The only people who want this easy mode crap to stick around those who can’t fight without it.

And if you’re salty about zerg fights then go play spvp. WvW is for big fights. That’s it’s whole point.

Lorelei.3918:

If you don’t like blobs, go play spvp.

Your try-hard posturing impresses no one.

I dont mind blobs, i do mind cheesy gimmicks that makes it even more imbalanced then it already is. 2 different things.

I just meant that the people that don’t get organized and fight as one cohesive group, like the banners as a crutch.

Edit: ArenaNet made a huge mistake adding this to WvW. They’ll never admit it, though. The closest thing to admitting the Banners were a mistake is Corpening’s statement calling the Banners unintended “nukes”.

Offair.2563:

Well now use your own brain. Anti blob weapon? If a small group has access to them as an anti blob, the blob can have double banners as the small group.

This logic…

If you haven’t noticed, banners are tied to structures, not the size of a blob.

briggah.7910:

Aww your only tool you used to kill people is getting nerfed. Looks like you’ll have to learn to fight or roll a rev and spam 2.. Takes a working brain to realize this shouldn’t even have been added in its current state..

Substance E.4852:

Need for OP crutch detected.

If WvW is so kitten clogged with “noobs” as you guys say it is then you shouldn’t need such a tool to win. The only people who want this easy mode crap to stick around those who can’t fight without it.

One thing Offair did notice is that the other side can use banners too. If both sides can use banners, then having them in the game doesn’t help me…

…unless the banners help different types of groups more than others. So who do banners benefit more: the small coordinated skill group or the large uncoordinated pug group? Due to the aoe cap being increased on banners, and the many counters available, obviously the smaller, more coordinated group benefits more.

So, if your group is getting rekt by banners, the problem is fixable. Either get your own, or get good. However, getting blobbed is not fixable. You can’t just summon more people. With banners though, you can kill the blobs that lack skill.

I like blob fights, and I don’t need help in even numbered battles. What I don’t like is groups winning based on numbers, not skill. Banners help even the numbers game.

Fellfoot.8156:

I just meant that the people that don’t get organized and fight as one cohesive group, like the banners as a crutch.

Edit: ArenaNet made a huge mistake adding this to WvW. They’ll never admit it, though. The closest thing to admitting the Banners were a mistake is Corpening’s statement calling the Banners unintended “nukes”.

They give banners huge abilities and they didn’t realise how powerful they’d be. Thats a mindboggling admission that makes them look incompetent.

Cake.4920:

Offair.2563:

Well now use your own brain. Anti blob weapon? If a small group has access to them as an anti blob, the blob can have double banners as the small group.

This logic…

If you haven’t noticed, banners are tied to structures, not the size of a blob.

briggah.7910:

Aww your only tool you used to kill people is getting nerfed. Looks like you’ll have to learn to fight or roll a rev and spam 2.. Takes a working brain to realize this shouldn’t even have been added in its current state..

Substance E.4852:

Need for OP crutch detected.

If WvW is so kitten clogged with “noobs” as you guys say it is then you shouldn’t need such a tool to win. The only people who want this easy mode crap to stick around those who can’t fight without it.

One thing Offair did notice is that the other side can use banners too. If both sides can use banners, then having them in the game doesn’t help me…

…unless the banners help different types of groups more than others. So who do banners benefit more: the small coordinated skill group or the large uncoordinated pug group? Due to the aoe cap being increased on banners, and the many counters available, obviously the smaller, more coordinated group benefits more.

So, if your group is getting rekt by banners, the problem is fixable. Either get your own, or get good. However, getting blobbed is not fixable. You can’t just summon more people. With banners though, you can kill the blobs that lack skill.

I like blob fights, and I don’t need help in even numbered battles. What I don’t like is groups winning based on numbers, not skill. Banners help even the numbers game.

That is not really an argument because it can be used to justify anything if the dominant criteria is equal access. All your points can be used for open field siege which is a perfectly fine legal tactic too and it is all good but let us not pretend we are really discussing anything skill related at all.

If A, then counter with A. In that case, how would you reject any idea as long as one side can duplicate what the otherside does?

Fellfoot.8156:

I just meant that the people that don’t get organized and fight as one cohesive group, like the banners as a crutch.

Edit: ArenaNet made a huge mistake adding this to WvW. They’ll never admit it, though. The closest thing to admitting the Banners were a mistake is Corpening’s statement calling the Banners unintended “nukes”.

These banners that everyone are crying about are actually the best thing in terms of defense/offense in the hands of competent people with small groups vs. large zergs. Personally, I thwarted a zerg trying to take Overlook with Bomb Shell when they were dumb enough to get to the edge. It gives outmanned servers a chance to defend objectives rather than letting large blobs of skilled 80s and their leechey uplevels steamroll everything. Hell, I even delayed the taking of SM with a group of like 6 in a hallway with dragon banner against 3 omegas for about 6 minutes.

IMO banners should be accessible whenever outmanned is toggled on the map. However they’re accessible is up to anyone else. That’s just my opinion.

It’s also my opinion that you imbeciles without the coordination or BRAIN stop crying about a mechanic that you cant overcome without teamwork. Best thing to take down a banner wielder is to get in a squad and TARGET the person with the banner, they stick out like a sore thumb!!

ArchonWing.9480:

If A, then counter with A. In that case, how would you reject any idea as long as one side can duplicate what the otherside does?

If A, counter with A, wasn’t my idea of “is this okay”, rather it was my response to those that say A can only be used by one side.

Whether something should be in the game should be decided by if it makes the game better. I think banners do, for reasons outlined in my last two posts.

Cake.4920:

ArchonWing.9480:

If A, then counter with A. In that case, how would you reject any idea as long as one side can duplicate what the otherside does?

If A, counter with A, wasn’t my idea of “is this okay”, rather it was my response to those that say A can only be used by one side.

Whether something should be in the game should be decided by if it makes the game better. I think banners do, for reasons outlined in my last two posts.

Of those quoted 3 posts, none of them suggested banners can only be used by one side. It really only makes sense in response to offair’s one that supposedly banners help a smaller, more skilled group against a larger more unskilled one.

Two posters claimed I’m probably a scrub and I need banners to win. My posts are pointing out that the banners are anti-scrub, so if I was one I would be posting in support for their removal, not defending them. I never claimed that the posters said banners can’t be used by both sides, I’m only showing how their logic is flawed.

If banners are a noob weapon and should be banned, then blobwide foodbuffs should be banned to.

(Or rather, neither need to be banned)

You don’t just click the “have banner” button. Larger group means more guilds hugged together which means more access to banners.

Also this logic of small group is skilled and large group is no skill; total nonsense. Large group can easily mean 2 or 3 guild groups hugging one another. Or 1 guild raid and 20 other pugs also on team speak. Do you guys ever read the map chat? Things like “Open raid join TS on such and such channel”.

Maybe banners would be better if they first fixed the population imbalances. But pretty much everything from banners to blobwide food breaks down when its bandwagon time.

All it takes is a few people abusing the nukes to troll a fight. No fun, not good for WvW.

I’m glad the nerfs are coming. I’m also glad the banners only last 15mins. It does kitten, though, folks having to tab through and scan the crowd looking for break bars, then focusing that player down, and then finally getting around to actually fighting… IF the zerg doesn’t run away until they get another banner.

Other thoughts: Why haven’t we seen the SMC stealth complaints yet? Is it even happening yet?

I haven’t seen stealth yet in t1 NA. Not sure which is worse, the banners or the airship – glad they are both getting the Nerf hammer. That chilling fog(or whatever it is called) is also pretty bad…..

I forgot to mention the chilling fog. Hey, why fight when you can nuthug unnecessary garbage like this?

Fellfoot.8156:

I’m glad the nerfs are coming. I’m also glad the banners only last 15mins. It does kitten, though, folks having to tab through and scan the crowd looking for break bars, then focusing that player down, and then finally getting around to actually fighting… IF the zerg doesn’t run away until they get another banner.

Other thoughts: Why haven’t we seen the SMC stealth complaints yet? Is it even happening yet?

You sir are a moron. I enjoy your tears.

There is no need to tab through anyone. The only time its hard to tell if someone has a banner up is when its on an Asura and that is because of the character model being shorter than everything else. Otherwise, learn the friggin animations, and learn to look at weapons!

Banners completely replace 1-5 skills…last 15 minutes, gets destroyed completely if you want to operate siege/drop siege/swap weapons, have up to 60 second CD on 5, have long cast time for skills, and because the user isn’t that affected by CControl until breakbar breaks, its REALLY easy to die to conditions while using one because the person using it isn’t focusing on their health bar/conditions applied to them. I’ve swapped characters and specifically hunted people using banners on my ranger, and god its really easy to put them down (except if it’s a DH). You need to learn to deal with it.

FugueState.3842:

Fellfoot.8156:

I’m glad the nerfs are coming. I’m also glad the banners only last 15mins. It does kitten, though, folks having to tab through and scan the crowd looking for break bars, then focusing that player down, and then finally getting around to actually fighting… IF the zerg doesn’t run away until they get another banner.

Other thoughts: Why haven’t we seen the SMC stealth complaints yet? Is it even happening yet?

You sir are a moron. I enjoy your tears.

There is no need to tab through anyone. The only time its hard to tell if someone has a banner up is when its on an Asura and that is because of the character model being shorter than everything else. Otherwise, learn the friggin animations, and learn to look at weapons!

Banners completely replace 1-5 skills…last 15 minutes, gets destroyed completely if you want to operate siege/drop siege/swap weapons, have up to 60 second CD on 5, have long cast time for skills, and because the user isn’t that affected by CControl until breakbar breaks, its REALLY easy to die to conditions while using one because the person using it isn’t focusing on their health bar/conditions applied to them. I’ve swapped characters and specifically hunted people using banners on my ranger, and god its really easy to put them down (except if it’s a DH). You need to learn to deal with it.

Welcome to the moron club. I enjoy your attention to detail… tab and scan through the crowd lol. What do you think scanning through the crowd means, you moron, as if I’ve never been called worse, lol. Anyways, not crying about them either. I have learned to deal with. They’re found, focused and killed. Yes, I do see them on Asura a lot. You’re right about that. I also see them with a thief, mes, or engi for stealth.

Edit: there are occasions where tabbing through a blob is a quick easy way to find the banner carrier.

Edit2: please feel free to leave me any more play tips, I’m always open to entertainment

Edit3: out of tears, but I never run out of kittens

…/ponder, are the Banners just a failed attempt at helping the underdog and woefully outmatched server?