Guild Wars 2

Alright, so I created a thread earlier which ended up being locked, and I can understand why. I decided to read some previous threads about the PPT system and how many players seem to either really hate it.. or really like it.

Due to the nature of WvW, the PPT system is partially responsible for causing the problem that I personally have with WvW. Which is zergs of players running around focusing on capturing undefended towers and keeps.

Again, this is MY problem. I personally don’t find this to be very fun and I’m sure some ppl enjoy capturing empty objectives.

Moving on.

What if we simply altered the PPT system so that:

1- The Ticks happen less frequently.
2- Each Tick, Keeps and Towers that have been successfully defended gain more PPT. So.. the longer you hold an objective, the more points it gives..
3- Instead of having a “Global” Tick system where ticks occur every 5 or 10 minutes for every Keeps / Towers, why not have it so all Keeps and Towers have their own Timer which counts down from the moment they each individually get captured?

This would stop the “we need to capture as many things as fast as possible before the next tick” mentality, and allow players to focus on what in my opinion is important… fighting.

Heck it would even create instances where a server might hold a Keep for so long, the opposing servers decide its time they lose it.. and of course, they don’t want to lose that income.. so they’ll give everything at defending it.

I dunno, again.. this is just a suggestion. and my personal Opinion.. Can you guys think of any reasons why something like this wouldn’t work? Or better yet, how ANET could tweak this idea to make it work?

Less frequent points tally on PPT leads to karma training btw :P.

Because you simply cap before the tick because there is enough time to do so, if the ticks are very frequent you must defend because you cannot back-cap in time for the point tally.

Zetsumei.4975:

Less frequent points tally on PPT leads to karma training btw :P.

Because you simply cap before the tick because there is enough time to do so, if the ticks are very frequent you must defend because you cannot back-cap in time for the point tally.

Yeah, hence why I suggested that each keep / tower have their own “timer” which gets reset upon capture.. instead of having a Global Tick ever 5 minutes. Does that make sense?

so for example. Our server captures a Keep. This keep now has a 10 Minutes counter which starts from 10:00. When it reaches 00:00, the keep allocates our server some points and the timer goes back to 10:00. If we manage to hold that keep again for the full 10 minutes, the next time the counter goes to 00:00, it gives an increased amount of points… and so on.. increasing more and more the longer your server can hold the objective. Now each keep would have their own individual Timer. So the Tick wouldn’t be at the same time for each keep / towers anymore..

They improved it for a few weeks when they enabled PPK, then it went to back to the same old system with all the flaws we know.

I really enjoyed Munkiman’s suggestion in the DCI point thread, about removing PPT entirely, and replace it with PPK, PPC (capture) and PPD (Defense).

But yes, PPK was fun, I really miss it.

Also read your other thread, just don’t argue with the Lawyer Troll.

I miss ppk
I realy dont like this passive, fightless, siege-on-walls thingy.
King of the hill, relic run, annihalation, escort etc… Wvw needs more fight events.

It’s called Potential Points per Tick. As soon as you capture something, you begin tallying points. By potential, it means if you hold all these points for 15 minutes you will have accumulated x points. Notice that the score is constantly going up, it doesn’t just lump on x at the 15 min mark. So RI will guarantee you 4/15 of the points of the captured area.

But really if you don’t like taking towers, i’m sure there’s plenty of fighting guilds around.

ppt + ppk and calculation every 8 hours all of them will be better than every 12 min tick and with no ppk points .

this will make matchups more interest and unpredictable . also will force all servers push until last day ( 7th day of matchup ) to change the score , because if a server goes well ( number of objects + bonus points from upgrades + more kills ) can steal many points from other servers and pass them in score .

tick every 8 hours can not force anyone do karma train . karma train exist because of loots from npc kills and wxp

There have been numerous suggestions about how to adjust scoring to improve issues of WvW. There were a few very detailed suggestions by a few posters in the Population CDI.

Somehow the scoring has to make it more valuable to fight for a Tower/Keep than it is to go to the other side of the map and take an undefended Tower/Keep.

I remember discussions on my server about this and some people kept saying that even though its more fun to have an hour long battle for a Keep, it is a waste of time because you’re not getting any points by doing that. And this caused a rift between people who liked to fight and people who thought we should stop fighting and go cap empty structures.

I think Anet needs to experiment with different scoring systems. But unfortunately they don’t seem to have the resources to do that.

They won’t change it, as cleary they aren’t really bothered about wvw competitively, in terms of bringing balance and making ppt – more than about coverage and numbers.

The only thing different they brought in, is ppk and stomp points.

Johje Holan.4607:

There have been numerous suggestions about how to adjust scoring to improve issues of WvW. There were a few very detailed suggestions by a few posters in the Population CDI.

Somehow the scoring has to make it more valuable to fight for a Tower/Keep than it is to go to the other side of the map and take an undefended Tower/Keep.

I remember discussions on my server about this and some people kept saying that even though its more fun to have an hour long battle for a Keep, it is a waste of time because you’re not getting any points by doing that. And this caused a rift between people who liked to fight and people who thought we should stop fighting and go cap empty structures.

I think Anet needs to experiment with different scoring systems. But unfortunately they don’t seem to have the resources to do that.

I agree with the idea of experimenting. The provlem that I see, is that even when they state some this is only a 2 week experiment, such as they did with white sword, a section of the community went nuts. There were hundred of irrational post. I say irrational, because they were negatively bashing the idea for days before they even implemented the temporary change. In my opinion, it is more a problem of the irrational backlash, then an unwillingness to experiment.

What’s ridiculous to me is that people are so focused on PPT despite the fact that winning in WvW means nothing. Unless there’s something I’m missing, I’ve noticed no long-term or short-term benefits of winning the round, rather, it’s purely about bragging rights, which are also meaningless given that winning in WvW indicates nothing about level of skill.

Andred.1087:

What’s ridiculous to me is that people are so focused on PPT despite the fact that winning in WvW means nothing. Unless there’s something I’m missing, I’ve noticed no long-term or short-term benefits of winning the round, rather, it’s purely about bragging rights, which are also meaningless given that winning in WvW indicates nothing about level of skill.

It is fine that you find it ridiculous that folk want to win
Although, simply because the winning is not important to you, does not detract from the fact that winning for the sake of winning is important to others.

Well, I wasn’t around during that PPK change, and its too bad because it sounds like it would have been a lot of fun. I really like the idea mentioned above about PPK, PPC and PPD. Simply because… with the PPT system, it really rewards servers that can do overnight capping. And if the other servers can’t field enough players during non peak hours, that server tallies TONS of points over night. At least with a PPC and PPD system, once the night cappers own all the keeps and towers, they won’t be getting anymore points from them overnight unless they are actively fighting another group of players who’s trying to capture an objective.

Andred.1087:

What’s ridiculous to me is that people are so focused on PPT despite the fact that winning in WvW means nothing. Unless there’s something I’m missing, I’ve noticed no long-term or short-term benefits of winning the round, rather, it’s purely about bragging rights, which are also meaningless given that winning in WvW indicates nothing about level of skill.

Winning in pretty much any sport means nothing but bragging rights (maybe, maybe advertising revenue). What do American football teams get for winning the super bowl? Prestige? A shiny trophy? That’s pretty much it (in fact they take a bit of a hit in that they usually get the worst pick spots in the draft the following year). Winning is fun, I like winning. Lot’s of people like winning just for the sake of winning.

Darsh.3145:

Well, I wasn’t around during that PPK change, and its too bad because it sounds like it would have been a lot of fun. I really like the idea mentioned above about PPK, PPC and PPD. Simply because… with the PPT system, it really rewards servers that can do overnight capping. And if the other servers can’t field enough players during non peak hours, that server tallies TONS of points over night. At least with a PPC and PPD system, once the night cappers own all the keeps and towers, they won’t be getting anymore points from them overnight unless they are actively fighting another group of players who’s trying to capture an objective.

Nightcapping is definitely an issue with the current system. It does seem a bit unfair that a server could just stack a ton of population in an off-hours time zone and rack up a ton of points due to PPT, and run away with the score.

In one of the scoring CDI threads a popular consensus was that, instead of scores being tallied in total over the entire week, scores should be time-sliced over a period of, say, a few hours. So let’s say Server A accrues the most PPT in a 4 hour period. They “win” that period, and are allocated a set amount of points toward their weekly score (let’s say 5 points for example). Servers B and C, 2nd and 3rd place in that 4 hour period, respectively, are allocated less points (let’s say 3 and 2 points, respectively, for example). This way, even though Server A will still “win” that 4 hour block from having a massively stacked population, the magnitude of their win won’t matter; whether they win by 100,000 PPT or 100 PPT, they still get 5 points. There are many other possible variations of time-slicing, but hopefully this gets the drift across.

The problem I see with a PPC and/or PPD system is I think it would encourage the very karma training and fight-avoiding you’re trying to negate. PPC means servers get more points the more objectives they capture, encourage as much offensive capture as possible. PPD means that if an attacking server encounters resistance, they’re better off moving to an undefended objective, because the longer they attack a defended objective, the more points they’ll give the defending server. If anything, ironically, PPC and PPD would probably discourage fights and encourage more karma training.

Edit: I also wanted to say that I agree that tallying PPT more continuously (where each keep/tower has its own timer) is far better than the global tick system we have now. I think that tallying PPT like this would go a long way to make defending objectives more rewarding.

BrickFurious.7169:

Edit: I also wanted to say that I agree that tallying PPT more continuously (where each keep/tower has its own timer) is far better than the global tick system we have now. I think that tallying PPT like this would go a long way to make defending objectives more rewarding.

Thanks,
I wasn’t sure if ppl understood what I was trying to suggest there.

Encouraging defending was what I was trying to get to.. hence why I also suggested that the points an objective gives increases the longer you hold it.
The only problem I can see with this system is.. Night capping would still be a thing.. and would could potentially be even more rewarding if a server holds all towers and keeps all night long due to the points increasing the longer an objective can be held.

A simple fix for that would be to have dynamic timers on Objectives that change with server population in WvW. So when WvW population is low, the timer could go from 10 minutes to 1 hour for example. So the server would have to do periodic checks of the population in WvW and update the Towers and Keeps timers accordingly. the wouldn’t completely remove the advantage of off peak time capping.. but it would mitigate the damage caused by it.

It still doesn’t help the night capping that lower tier servers have difficulty with. But i like the ideas listed.