Guild Wars 2

Israel.7056:

I’d love to see their stats that can magically identify any one particular player motivation for participation at any given time.

They have usage stats on every single player in the entire game at all time, which is a ludicrous amount of data.

Can you identify the reason of a single player? No. Can you identify the reasons of hundreds of thousands of players across hundreds of millions of hours? Obviously.

Israel.7056:

Bogus reasoning. It’s already easy to exclude players from a squad by kicking them.

What on earth does that have to do with anything? Being kicked from the squad doesn’t stop someone from seeing and following the tag. This thread isn’t about joining squads, it’s about the visibility of commander tags.

Also quite frankly I don’t like the idea of anet catering to the lowest common denominator of player who won’t participate in the game mode unless they see a commander tag on the map. You’re enabling weak minded players.

Whether anyone likes it or not, catering to the lowest common denominator is what brings new people into the game mode. Unless you want WvW to die faster or something…..

McKenna Berdrow.2759:

Like others have mentioned in this thread, we don’t think this would be a healthy feature for WvW. Many players will not participate in WvW if they don’t see a commander tag, and we try to avoid adding features that can be used to exclude players.

Players already run closed tagless squads. If a commander wants players they tag up and leave squad open. They wont suddenly decide they too elite for their server and run closed because of a not so fancy nor new concept of wvw guild raids suddenly getting a minor change to support it. How does your post even make sense?

McKenna Berdrow.2759:

Like others have mentioned in this thread, we don’t think this would be a healthy feature for WvW. Many players will not participate in WvW if they don’t see a commander tag, and we try to avoid adding features that can be used to exclude players.

Thanks for posting, really appreciated!

You are right that “many players will not participate in WvW if they don’t see a commander tag”, they will either wait of leave. It’s extremely important having a commander willing and able to lead, and if possible even having at least a small group of guildies or just regulars who follows exemplarily. For group play at least.

You should encourage and reward these public servants more.

There are many very valid reasons for groups wanting to run private. An example would be when our group of 5-7 want to fight those 15 enemies, who would run away or would be very quickly killed if we would go equal or superior numbers, then we have nothing to fight. If we use low numbers, adjust our numbers by asking guildmates to wait for their turn on the side, we can adjust the difficulty of the encounter, until it is possible for the other side to win. We want to improve ourselves, not to blob down the other side using sheer numbers.

But we still can do this, by not using a tag. If we don’t want others to follow, we ask respectfully and most players will listen, it’s just an extra typing to do and our precious few enemies (yes, the scarcity of players willing to fight) will be blobbed down before we could type…

Usually these players are your regular veteran WvW players, most of them are or could be a tag, leading those random players in battle, when there are enough enemies for them to tag up and lead. This is one of those QoL changes that could make them less frustrated, NOT a high priority, like proper metrics for example, on which to base balance between servers (instead of sheer numbers, the system we have now)

Those who really don’t want to play with others, ever, they still can, as it is. Solo players, small scale wouldn’t be such with higher numbers either. This current system seems to enforce that “blob up” is the ONLY way accepted… then do what, cap objectives from NPC for a PPT score that means nothing? Surely ArenaNet should understand that this isn’t what fighters want.

Fluffball.8307:

Israel.7056:

I’d love to see their stats that can magically identify any one particular player motivation for participation at any given time.

They have usage stats on every single player in the entire game at all time, which is a ludicrous amount of data.

Can you identify the reason of a single player? No. Can you identify the reasons of hundreds of thousands of players across hundreds of millions of hours? Obviously.

Why Obviously? Even if they have the record of every player to log in or out of WvW and could cross reference that with whether or not there was a commander tag on that particular map at that particular time they could not with any confidence separate that particular motivation for logging in or out of WvW from all the other conceivable motivations a player could have had for logging in or out.

But even if I granted that they could, it still wouldn’t accomplish their professed motivation of incentivizing cooperation and inclusivity because an unwanted pug can be kicked from squad and ridiculed or left to die until they finally give up. This is exactly what happens to anyone who tries to join or run alongside a squad that doesn’t want them there.

If you want experienced players to try to mentor newer players you cannot get this by disallowing the more experienced players their ability to organize privately and run “under the radar” so to speak.

This policy accomplishes nothing except to aggravate the more experienced players in the game who do not want unskilled randos following them around.

Deli.1302:

What on earth does that have to do with anything? Being kicked from the squad doesn’t stop someone from seeing and following the tag. This thread isn’t about joining squads, it’s about the visibility of commander tags.

Kicking them from squad once or twice doesn’t get rid of everyone but publically calling them out in team chat usually does and if that doesn’t work you usually just need to let them die a few times before they get the message and move on.

The point of an invisible commander tag would be to allow guilds to run privately but still have the tag visible to everyone in squad without constantly having to deal with unwanted randos.

Stand The Wall.6987:

skill groups…

Thanks for the laugh.

Israel.7056:

Kicking them from squad once or twice doesn’t get rid of everyone but publically calling them out in team chat usually does and if that doesn’t work you usually just need to let them die a few times before they get the message and move on.

Dunno why you took the time to type this. I already told you it is completely irrelevant to the topic at hand.

The point of an invisible commander tag would be to allow guilds to run privately but still have the tag visible to everyone in squad without constantly having to deal with unwanted randos.

We know. And anet has already explained why they won’t do it. Want your squad markers, put up a tag. Don’t want randoms, don’t use a tag. Simple.

Deli.1302:

Dunno why you took the time to type this. I already told you it is completely irrelevant to the topic at hand.

You’re wrong. It’s completely relevant because it shows the actual effect of the current policy and how easy it is to work around and how it really just ends up negatively effecting newer players anyways.

Deli.1302:

We know. And anet has already explained why they won’t do it. Want your squad markers, put up a tag. Don’t want randoms, don’t use a tag. Simple.

Well if Anet’s goals are what they say they are then they really need to reconsider this decision because all they’re doing is annoying veteran players, the same people they seem to want to motivate to be more inclusive. It doesn’t work like that. They give us what we want and maybe some of us actually decide to help newer players learn the game.

We should be able to have private tags. They’re just shooting themselves in the foot yet again on this because of their sentimentality towards the “casual player.”

Deli.1302:

Israel.7056:

Kicking them from squad once or twice doesn’t get rid of everyone but publically calling them out in team chat usually does and if that doesn’t work you usually just need to let them die a few times before they get the message and move on.

Dunno why you took the time to type this. I already told you it is completely irrelevant to the topic at hand.

The point of an invisible commander tag would be to allow guilds to run privately but still have the tag visible to everyone in squad without constantly having to deal with unwanted randos.

We know. And anet has already explained why they won’t do it. Want your squad markers, put up a tag. Don’t want randoms, don’t use a tag. Simple.

its not so ’’simple’’ as you think and i dont think you understand why people want private tags. Or how frustrating it is.

You either tag up as a guild so you can use squad features properly so you can target things like most guilds are doing these days to fight, which draws people to you and you end up blobing things down (which is directly related to people leaving wvw is it not?)

or have a few less people to even up a fight, not being able to target things propely outside of your 5 man sub group just because you dont want random people following. those people that are nott included are not going to be on you anyways. and yet you cant target/fight properly.. . just because you dont want randoms following.

its a huge problem outside of NA prime.

its something guilds have wanted for a long time. myself included since squad groups have been around. and yet nothing.

Putting a target on your drivers head is not a solution, it hinders your play.

McKenna Berdrow.2759:

Like others have mentioned in this thread, we don’t think this would be a healthy feature for WvW. Many players will not participate in WvW if they don’t see a commander tag, and we try to avoid adding features that can be used to exclude players.

Like others have mentioned in this thread, you’ve missed the point. The unhealthiest feature of WvW is the population imbalance. Many players will not participate in WvW if they are being heavily outnumbered and guild groups running privately is a player created solution that you are refusing to support. This request is a product of guilds attempting to balance the game, not exclude players.

McKenna Berdrow.2759:

Like others have mentioned in this thread, we don’t think this would be a healthy feature for WvW. Many players will not participate in WvW if they don’t see a commander tag, and we try to avoid adding features that can be used to exclude players.

Anet pretty much excluded 3/4 of the WvW community by adding a new map that no-one asked for

God forbid that you let the remaining guilds on this game mode enjoy the way they want to play it without having to accommodate for random stragglers that refuse to put in any effort to coordinate with guild groups and end up being more of a burden in engagements than anything.

SubHonour Guard.6498:

McKenna Berdrow.2759:

Like others have mentioned in this thread, we don’t think this would be a healthy feature for WvW. Many players will not participate in WvW if they don’t see a commander tag, and we try to avoid adding features that can be used to exclude players.

Like others have mentioned in this thread, you’ve missed the point. The unhealthiest feature of WvW is the population imbalance. Many players will not participate in WvW if they are being heavily outnumbered and guild groups running privately is a player created solution that you are refusing to support. This request is a product of guilds attempting to balance the game, not exclude players.

Guilds attempting to “balance” the game? Hahahahaha… that’s quite a high piedestal you put them on. Oh are you talking about the same guilds that bandwagon from server to server?

Guilds can run in closed groups all they want – even a tagless squad if they dont want to show their banner – but they dont get all the pros of using that squad system. Because Anet wants people to tag as a distinct feature of the game, it’s as simple as that.

To me arguing against it the same as saying well I like dodging but I dont like how it clearly announce my character dodging to other players. Please remove the animation on my character.

I can assure you that there are guilds out there that will actively tag up/down to try and make fights as competitive as possible because they enjoy the game that way. Guilds are already doing it, Anet can either support them or not. Maybe it’s okay to listen to the guilds that still care about this game enough to act that way.

Anet has never supported actual Guild play in WvW, and they’re not likely ever going to. They will continue to appease the few outspoken “pugs” that come into the forums with bright ideas about what WvW should be for the non-guild player (All those not running in an organised group of like 10+). # I want to Roam leave me alone and dont come near me tags/zergs, I want better rewards, and I want gimmicky tactics so I can solo defend an entire objective from anything other than 30 people. #

In fact there was the one time a dev actually discredited GvGs. Some old players may still remember it, but the fact is they are not going appeal to Guilds because even though Guilds & their leaders are the driving force of WvW-servers Anet has their “Vision” of what WvW should still be: a PPT siege-fest. And the only thing we’re ever going to get will be the illusion of choice generated by “polls” based on this agenda where less contributing and brand new players have an equal voice against longstanding WvW players and guild leaders. This obviously “muddies” the water on what we as a community want creating things like the Cannon-beta testing; because some of the voters have no idea what they’re doing and may not even stick around past a month.

For WvW to improve. Anet needs to re-examine their very fundamentals of what WvW “should be.” Good luck with that considering the gimmick thread with “roles” this week got attention and every old “combat oriented” guild just rolled their eyes again in defeat.

I’m extremely confident that invisible commander tags would be a positive thing for the game. A large majority of guilds would not use them, there are very few guilds playing the game consistently who have 0 desire for any pug presence. During NA prime I very much doubt there’s any server in the game that will have no commander tags visible if invisible commander tags are possible. Some people like playing WvW in a very organized fashion, and with the current balance of the game having somebody unorganized with you can be a very negative affect.

There needs to be features added that appeal to both the casual player base and the more competitive. This is something that is a positive for competitive guilds and really doesn’t negatively impact more casual guilds or pug groups.

Why is it that WvW is the only game mode that doesn’t allow the separation of the skilled from the unskilled?

sPvP has tournaments. PvE has raids and fractals.

Swamurabi.7890:

Why is it that WvW is the only game mode that doesn’t allow the separation of the skilled from the unskilled?

sPvP has tournaments. PvE has raids and fractals.

Following gimmick rotations most of times, does not mean skillfull player.
Mobs A.i is actually dull they dont need any kidn of player skills for counterplaying.

I think the issue here is that many people think that the squad is effectively a large party for you to use, but that’s not the whole story. It’s part of having a tag, which is a map-wide tool of organizing things. Making it invisible to the whole map defeats the purpose. The squad features are an incentive to tag.

What I am seeing here is pretty much a desire to have the cake and eat it too.

WarHawk.1892:

Anet has never supported actual Guild play in WvW, and they’re not likely ever going to. They will continue to appease the few outspoken “pugs” that come into the forums with bright ideas about what WvW should be for the non-guild player (All those not running in an organised group of like 10+). # _I want to Roam leave me alone and dont come near me tags/zergs, I want better rewards, and I want gimmicky tactics so I can solo defend an entire objective from anything other than 30 people.

And what, makes your preferences actually more important then theirs? There are way more pugs than anything else? Of course Anet’s going to appeal to them

As for defending a structure against 30 people, all I can say it’s not really a matter of gimmicky tactics but 30 players seemingly not having a single brain between all of them. I mean, you are, as a skilled group, hitting a keep or fortified tower to induce the enemy groups to come out and fight you, not overrunning that poor dude and getting a champ bag, are you?

It’s also pretty hilarious that you somehow included roamers in the mix, that they want to be left alone and tags shouldn’t interfere with their fights, when you have guild groups trying to impose the exact same thing on people. It’s pretty obvious that in writing that, you have absolutely no respect for anyone else’s gameplay style, so why should anyone respect yours?

Glass houses much?

You’re right, they haven’t, since it’s not all about organized guilds. But of course, they’re the ones that get access to all those activators and banners though…

“In fact there was the one time a dev actually discredited GvGs. Some old players may still remember it”

I do. I’m on the server of which it happened This was because Anet was at that time even more disconnected from the WvW community than they were and a developer legitimately thought that there was exploiting going on. The developer was clearly wrong, oblivious, and handled it badly, but it’s not like the swearing and lack of explaining from the other side was helpful. And in response, the OS stadium was created so people could GvG. Of course, only the bad parts get remembered as part as historical revisionism, but hey, what’s convenient.

I actually met the “Violating Game Mode” person later on when I was new. He showed me how to evade the zerg, so that dev wasn’t really a particularly bad person. Just misguided.

Swamurabi.7890:

Why is it that WvW is the only game mode that doesn’t allow the separation of the skilled from the unskilled?

sPvP has tournaments. PvE has raids and fractals.

World vs World

The actual entities are servers, not players or groups. Now, in theory it does seperate “unskilled” worlds from others, but of course in practice that’s obviously false due to the numerous other problems with the game mode.

Besides, even if they did, I think a lot of people around these parts are going to end up crying.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect

And to further push this point, you already can. You can close your squad so that only you and your guild maters get fully optimized builds and thus have more sustain. The pugs will die and you can feel good about yourself as you regroup and have your actual fight.

The game allows you to exclude people already. And with an untagged squad all you are missing are broadcasts (you should be in comms anyways), squad markers and tags. Now, I’m incredibly skeptical that the self-proclaimed crème de la crème of this game mode suffers a performance hit to the degree where they can’t just wipe your average enemy blob without squad markers and a dorito. That would just make them as bad as the pugs they’re trying to get away from.

Come on, this game isn’t that hard.

I think a few people need to keep in mind that this is just a request for a minor QoL change.

ArchonWing.9480:

I think the issue here is that many people think that the squad is effectively a large party for you to use, but that’s not the whole story. It’s part of having a tag, which is a map-wide tool of organizing things. Making it invisible to the whole map defeats the purpose. The squad features are an incentive to tag.

Well GG you missed the entire point. But let me spell it out for you – we as a community do not know what we want. Anet in terms of WvW does not know what they want/need. Thereby, again “muddying” the waters of what could be, should be, what we want, and is.

And as for roamers basically everyone has roamed at some point. But unfortunately in terms of point value; no they generate far less both in PPT and Kills at prime hours. They also do not often contribute much to the server which was why I listed them. This is “generalized”, some of course do and they know if they do – those that can solo and duo towers while killing, those that actually flip camps. But those few that stand alongside Stonemist during prime hours saying just that as stated above- no they can go to Obsidian Sanctum. Because like you said, no1’s play should be valued over anothers, and guess what – that interferes with like 60-120+ people when it would not in OS. But again the point of listing them for your rightous self, was to point out that theyre often the ones value’ing the good of a few over the many.

Now, sit down imagine all your pugs leaving. Server guilds stay. Server probably lives on just fine and accumulates a pug/non wvw-guild population again over a few months.

Now imagine all your guilds leaving and guess what you’re left with; a linked server that won’t do anything unless until either a very dedicated Pug-Tag shows up (Few and far between) or a guild transfers to them.

So the point is not who is more valuable. It is who drives the heart of servers and WvW and it is the Guilds whether you choose to acknowledge that or not you’re right idc.

WarHawk.1892:

ArchonWing.9480:

I think the issue here is that many people think that the squad is effectively a large party for you to use, but that’s not the whole story. It’s part of having a tag, which is a map-wide tool of organizing things. Making it invisible to the whole map defeats the purpose. The squad features are an incentive to tag.

Well GG you missed the entire point. But let me spell it out for you – we as a community do not know what we want. Anet in terms of WvW does not know what they want/need. Thereby, again “muddying” the waters of what could be, should be, what we want, and is.

There is no muddying the waters. The red post clearly implied the the tag was to include participation. Whether or not you disagree with it or not is your own issue, as well as if you use it or not to serve your own purposes. You just can’t expect them to give you QoL on something they won’t support.

And as for roamers basically everyone has roamed at some point. But unfortunately in terms of point value; no they generate far less both in PPT and Kills at prime hours. They also do not often contribute much to the server which was why I listed them. This is “generalized”, some of course do and they know if they do – those that can solo and duo towers while killing, those that actually flip camps. But those few that stand alongside Stonemist during prime hours saying just that as stated above- no they can go to Obsidian Sanctum.

So, you’re selectively excluding all the good things they do, in lieu of those few random duelers outside SM? What evidence do you have that those are even the majority?

And what about those roamers that lure away part of a zerg, kill people running back to the tag, and might even report what happened, or indirectly when some kitten guild gets kittened that their slowpokes get picked off in the back and decides to make oranges on them?

Because like you said, no1’s play should be valued over anothers, and guess what – that interferes with like 60-120+ people when it would not in OS. But again the point of listing them for your rightous self, was to point out that theyre often the ones value’ing the good of a few over the many.

Oh, few over the many huh? Playing this game?

Those scouts you laugh at for siege sitting. Well, they’re the ones that that report enemy movements so you can actually find fights in the first place.

You’re speaking on interfering with 60-120? Okay, well take 2 “invisible” tags with their 25 while everyone is wondering why the map is queued but there is no one doing anything. Sounds like teamwork! Now, you have a right to do this, but you can’t say this is selfless behavior.

I’m sorry, I’ve heard these lines too much from guilds that think they own the map and they tell everyone else to get off because they need to get their entire guild onto the map. Probably because they got wiped with even numbers or something.

Now imagine all your guilds leaving and guess what you’re left with; a linked server that won’t do anything unless until either a very dedicated Pug-Tag shows up (Few and far between) or a guild transfers to them.

Been there, done that. Funny how the “hearts of the server” move so much.

Back to the topic. A Private tag for guilds, really would make little difference to the population at large and would unlikely “harm” anything at all.

If you’re a good commander, people follow with or without a tag. Even roaming youll have 3-4 pile on to hang. Adding the private tag simply lets the guilds run more organised when they don’t want pugs around. And whether you love the idea or not many guilds do just that anyway. So the only thing the idea Jirayu.5834 had would really do is become a quality of life for guild play anyway. And if you’ve ever been in 20man guilds – every1 that pays any attention knows when they’re on a map – tag or tagless. If they’re good an entire zerg may still pile in behind them and they do.

Its not like an entire zerg squad untagged cannot simply target their ‘driver’ to follow him already. So again for people that still don’t get the point and like to just attack everything on these forums: Jirayu’s idea is truly only a Quality-of-Life change/benefit to guilds at no real cost to anyone else. Like, why the bananas would a pug “tag” try to run tagless – these are two completely different commander types you folks are lumping into one beast…

the only way ic this implemented would be limiting the access of private tags per server, as example one guild could use private tag if theres 1 or 2 tags up

IF tags drop, the current private tag guild has 30 seconds to 1 minute and their tag apears on map.

Limit the private tags on map to just one??

Even roaming youll have 3-4 pile on to hang. Adding the private tag simply lets the guilds run more organised when they don’t want pugs around.

That is true! I think I should be able to hide myself from being a green dot. Can’t have those scrubs stealing my kills.

ArchonWing.9480:

You’re speaking on interfering with 60-120? Okay, well take 2 “invisible” tags with their 25 while everyone is wondering why the map is queued but there is no one doing anything. Sounds like teamwork!

Well no1 is laughing, but you sure take everything personally don’t you buddy? But sure lets talk about 2 invisible tags again, cause guess what that’s 40 people working together, with 20 random pugs doing their own thing or following those invisible tag groups since bodies are not invisible, nor orange swords. And if you still don’t like it thats too bad cause its at the very least 20 working together another 20 working together, and then the 20 randoms that do their own thing with or without a map tag anyway lol.

As much as you’d like to drive this more off topic by spewing how much I apparently hate everyone because your own opinion is the be-all-end all so much that you rapid reply quotes – I’m going to go have a pizza now, and continue to tag how I please as I have since launch. Im argueing for a play style for people. The only one here argueing that some1 elses play style is less important is you. Cheers kiddo

WarHawk.1892:

ArchonWing.9480:

You’re speaking on interfering with 60-120? Okay, well take 2 “invisible” tags with their 25 while everyone is wondering why the map is queued but there is no one doing anything. Sounds like teamwork!

Well no1 is laughing, but you sure take everything personally don’t you buddy? But sure lets talk about 2 invisible tags again, cause guess what that’s 40 people working together, with 20 random pugs doing their own thing or following those invisible tag groups since bodies are not invisible, nor orange swords. And if you still don’t like it thats too bad cause its at the very least 20 working together another 20 working together, and then the 20 randoms that do their own thing with or without a map tag anyway lol.

That was just an analogy to roamers, but simply with the numbers multiplied up. You claim that they’re being selfish in that sense, but I am showing the same thing can be done with guild groups. Not sure how provocative that is.

As much as you’d like to drive this more off topic by spewing how much I apparently hate everyone because your own opinion is the be-all-end all so much that you rapid reply quotes – I’m going to go have a pizza now, and continue to tag how I please as I have since launch. Cheers kiddo

Sounds a lot like projection. Beyond the roaming comment, how is anything remotely personal?

McKenna Berdrow.2759:

Like others have mentioned in this thread, we don’t think this would be a healthy feature for WvW. Many players will not participate in WvW if they don’t see a commander tag, and we try to avoid adding features that can be used to exclude players.

I think you don’t understand. In many match ups, especially recently with certain toxic servers from top tiers who like to tag watch, we started to run tagless. Talk about players not seeing a tag. Without an option that only lets the zerg see their squad’s tag more will, and are, running tagless. So ANeT not solving this issue will actually lead to players NOT seeing a tag. So your saying this is not healthy contradicts what is already happening.

Heibi.4251:

McKenna Berdrow.2759:

Like others have mentioned in this thread, we don’t think this would be a healthy feature for WvW. Many players will not participate in WvW if they don’t see a commander tag, and we try to avoid adding features that can be used to exclude players.

I think you don’t understand. In many match ups, especially recently with certain toxic servers from top tiers who like to tag watch, we started to run tagless. Talk about players not seeing a tag. Without an option that only lets the zerg see their squad’s tag more will, and are, running tagless. So ANeT not solving this issue will actually lead to players NOT seeing a tag. So your saying this is not healthy contradicts what is already happening.

But that issue would happen regardless. You still aren’t going to want to be visible either way. You already can be invisible either way. The only solution is to punish people for spying, and sadly that doesn’t seem possible.

So from Anet’s point of view, neither action is really going to get what they want, from you.

And personally, and you can simply ignore me on this, is that I think being paranoid to spies is ultimately not going to be healthy unless you intend to lock up your comms and screen every member. From experience, this has generally been more effort than it is worth. And yes, I know it’s terrible to have someone from another server even wearing the same guild tag and not trying to hide their spying. Though I guess I am more annoyed at the lack of effort towards the trolling rather than trolling itself.

zinkz.7045:

Thanks for the laugh.

yes they do still exist believe it or not

If the tag watchers can’t see a tag but are remotely map aware, they can still tell where a group is much of the time.

ArchonWing.9480:

Heibi.4251:

McKenna Berdrow.2759:

Like others have mentioned in this thread, we don’t think this would be a healthy feature for WvW. Many players will not participate in WvW if they don’t see a commander tag, and we try to avoid adding features that can be used to exclude players.

I think you don’t understand. In many match ups, especially recently with certain toxic servers from top tiers who like to tag watch, we started to run tagless. Talk about players not seeing a tag. Without an option that only lets the zerg see their squad’s tag more will, and are, running tagless. So ANeT not solving this issue will actually lead to players NOT seeing a tag. So your saying this is not healthy contradicts what is already happening.

But that issue would happen regardless. You still aren’t going to want to be visible either way. You already can be invisible either way.

So from Anet’s point of view, neither action is really going to get what they want, from you.

?
In STRM there are nights where we run tagless but there are fights I have to say tag up because it is impossible to follow my GL in the mess. We are not some hardcore elitist GvG guild. We just want to have opponents who feel they can come out and play because it’s 5-15 players instead of lol30+.

Justine.6351:

ArchonWing.9480:

Heibi.4251:

McKenna Berdrow.2759:

Like others have mentioned in this thread, we don’t think this would be a healthy feature for WvW. Many players will not participate in WvW if they don’t see a commander tag, and we try to avoid adding features that can be used to exclude players.

I think you don’t understand. In many match ups, especially recently with certain toxic servers from top tiers who like to tag watch, we started to run tagless. Talk about players not seeing a tag. Without an option that only lets the zerg see their squad’s tag more will, and are, running tagless. So ANeT not solving this issue will actually lead to players NOT seeing a tag. So your saying this is not healthy contradicts what is already happening.

But that issue would happen regardless. You still aren’t going to want to be visible either way. You already can be invisible either way.

So from Anet’s point of view, neither action is really going to get what they want, from you.

?
In STRM there are nights where we run tagless but there are fights I have to say tag up because it is impossible to follow my GL in the mess. We are not some hardcore elitist GvG guild. We just want to have opponents who feel they can come out and play because it’s 5-15 players instead of lol30+.

Well, I meant that if people are harassing you by watching your tag, then you are going to make your squad tagless regardless of this change gets made or not. And if this is STRM from HoD, then I know you folks are a decent bunch. I don’t actually object to people running tagless. We do it and use ctrl-T all the time.

To clarify, I don’t think you’re a bad person for not inviting people to your squad. I mean, I think using pugs as bait is a legitimate tactic. That probably makes me a lot worse than many around here. I just want to point out the tag was intended for visibility.

That being said, I think the targeting system in general needs to be improved. What could happen is a leaderless squad should not drop lieutenants, so you could at least have a marker. But you know, then the reasoning becomes fundamentally different. It becomes more about improving the game because the targeting UI is bad, and not about who wants what. I mean, tag or not, you might point out the sheer annoyance of a member that isn’t the commander want to point something out to the whole squad. (obviously anyone that abuses it just gets kicked). And what if the commander disconnects?

I think it’s much easier for the devs to take “Your UI is flawed” as opposed to “omfg Anet doesn’t care about XXYYZZ”

They should also fix things like drawing on maps. But that rant is for another day.

Israel.7056:

McKenna Berdrow.2759:

Like others have mentioned in this thread, we don’t think this would be a healthy feature for WvW. Many players will not participate in WvW if they don’t see a commander tag, and we try to avoid adding features that can be used to exclude players.

Bogus reasoning. It’s already easy to exclude players from a squad by kicking them.

Also quite frankly I don’t like the idea of anet catering to the lowest common denominator of player who won’t participate in the game mode unless they see a commander tag on the map. You’re enabling weak minded players.

“you’re enabling weak minded players”

LOL… way to win over your argument with the Devs. They probably look at that statement and think. “Oh so you’re THAT kind of player. Moving on….”

Sarika.3756:

If the tag watchers can’t see a tag but are remotely map aware, they can still tell where a group is much of the time.

Yes, but if they are tag watching they will show up a lot faster than if they had to guess where we were.
An example of this was when we were fighting a top tier server. They were showing up way too fast to be coincidence so I tagged down. They were hunting tags/bags and had huge numbers compared to us. After I tagged down we were able to take a very large objective after we led them around with distractions. Since they couldn’t have whoever it was watching where my tag was we took the keep. They showed up shortly after we capped it.
If we had a squad only visual tag they couldn’t have tag watched in the first place.

Hexalot.8194:

“you’re enabling weak minded players”

LOL… way to win over your argument with the Devs. They probably look at that statement and think. “Oh so you’re THAT kind of player. Moving on….”

Yeah one of those 4yr veterans who actually still kinda enjoys the game and takes it semi-seriously. Crazy right?

Israel.7056:

Hexalot.8194:

“you’re enabling weak minded players”

LOL… way to win over your argument with the Devs. They probably look at that statement and think. “Oh so you’re THAT kind of player. Moving on….”

Yeah one of those 4yr veterans who actually still kinda enjoys the game and takes it semi-seriously. Crazy right?

Pssh… so what. I’ve been playing since launch too and even I can see how hilariously DUMB it is when trying to make a point to the Devs to call other players who don’t follow your play style, “weak minded”.

Forcing tags to be public doesn’t foster “inclusiveness”. All it does is increase the resentment against rallybots following a tagged group. Give it up, Anet. Some people want to be pugmanders and that’s great. Other people want to run a tight, disciplined squad with a tag visible only to the squad members and that’s great too.

This isn’t about being inclusive. It’s about trying to force everyone to play the game the way the devs want them to play. The fact that there are work-arounds doesn’t excuse the silliness of “that’s not how you’re supposed to play the game”.

McKenna Berdrow.2759:

Like others have mentioned in this thread, we don’t think this would be a healthy feature for WvW. Many players will not participate in WvW if they don’t see a commander tag, and we try to avoid adding features that can be used to exclude players.

Maybe a tag can only be private, while there is already at least one public tag on the map?

This way no one would be excluded, but directed to a place where is is wanted and needed.

McKenna Berdrow.2759:

Like others have mentioned in this thread, we don’t think this would be a healthy feature for WvW. Many players will not participate in WvW if they don’t see a commander tag, and we try to avoid adding features that can be used to exclude players.

Some groups are going to exclude people regardless if you want them to or not. I don’t see how giving them extra tools to enjoy the game will have any sort of negative effect.

McKenna Berdrow.2759:

Like others have mentioned in this thread, we don’t think this would be a healthy feature for WvW. Many players will not participate in WvW if they don’t see a commander tag, and we try to avoid adding features that can be used to exclude players.

there are closed tags already. The closed raid just tells people to stay away while people who still come (because they dont understand and dont read the chat) get insulted in every possible way to make clear they dont add the closed raid. So a private tag IS the better choice, no need to insult people anymore.

McKenna Berdrow.2759:

Like others have mentioned in this thread, we don’t think this would be a healthy feature for WvW. Many players will not participate in WvW if they don’t see a commander tag, and we try to avoid adding features that can be used to exclude players.

yes, you will do everything in your power to protect your precious casual players… if you’d step in wvw once in a while, you’d see that players devised their own, much more drastic way of dealing with this… good effort though