Guild Wars 2

I’m a little behind the times as I pretty much gave up on WvW since my server’s community basically split itself in two and everyone fell out.

Yes I’m from the GvG side of things and I know people who love their PPT believe we’ve ruined their game-mode.

I’ve just read the post about upgrades coming into WvW (Turtle Banner!?) and after planning to come back to Organised WvW for Autumn/Winter have found it hard to get the optimism going.

I understand there are fresh new mechanics coming for WvW, I understand people want to keep things strategic and engaging, I even understand that some people just want new stuff. I get it. But we’re all kidding ourselves if a conversation on the future of the WvW community isn’t discussed with the Devs.

GvGs, Scrimming, Fight-oriented whatever guilds are a natural progression for players that have honed their skills and still want more. After 3 years its only natural players want more of a challenge and begin to move towards team-fights in controlled scenarios.

If the GvG community had a way for its guilds to fight each other in an extension large enough within their Guild Halls and matches earned points towards the weekly totals, you’d have a way for the two sides of the community to reconcile their differences and potentially have shared goals (domination strategically and competitively).

Surely its not too much to ask for? Because honestly I don’t think ANET understands the ‘trajectory’ of most of its WvW players. If an individual plays WvW for 2 yrs+ the vast majority want to experience more, challenge themselves and push onto a level above.

Without addressing both sides of the community, we’ll just go round and around and the lifespan of most WvWers will continue to last about 2 yrs.

I’m sorry but driving around in a Charr Car will last a day, fighting 20-20, 15-15, will last forever.

Please, Can We Just Fight Yet?

Nah. The ‘trajectory’ you are talking about, yea I get it. I’ve been there myself. That progression is logical. Militia zergs get too easy to fight at some point so we move up to fighting against other guilds and then eventually we may dominate other guilds until there is no longer any challenge.

What you’re not realizing though is that a lot of us “retire” from the GvG scene eventually. We either have quit GW2 completely or we’ve gone WvW casual because we can no longer commit to the time requirements to be at the top of the game.

I don’t really see a point to trying to reconcile differences because it seems such a minuscule thing to the bigger picture.

@Chuba – I understand where you’re coming from. For me I try and find some organised WvW for Autumn/Winter, then go casual in Spring/Summer. You’re right its just not sustainable.

Though I do think running around the BL for 2.5 hrs and getting 10 mins of fights is too little content not to expect something to change.

If people like to scout and do the siege thing, thats great – I’m glad they enjoy their evenings. But without some Infrastructure, currently it feels like a massive waste of energy and time. Which is a shame, as I genuinely love this game.

I’m hoping that sPvP leagues and potentially raiding will show the Devs finally what some considered progression and team oriented support can do for re-invigorating the organised aspects of their game. After which, only GvG will be left undeveloped and potentially ‘unlockable’.

Lol chuba has a new nickname on the other forums…..

Byron.1902:

Please, Can We Just Fight Yet?

Fighting just to fight isn’t very interesting….

Fighting just for fight is boring like hell….
Increase fight level to defend our stuff that ok, I like that.
But I play the game for 2,5 years, and I really not want to make fight at the south map just for fight…
No GvG is not the ultimate end game of gw2…. Not for all players at least.

But I hope that the guild hall will help guild who want to make GvG. And I hope that you will have some score to help you fight always better guild, with auto match or somehing like battle.net. To fight guild with the same “score” that yours. And slowly progress.

Fighting in the open. Circling endlessly, dropping veils, water, bombs, screaming in TS. All fun for how long. Been there done that like Chaba said.

The best fights I have ever had in WvW were either trying to take or defend something. That’s where your fights are and have been. They are organic. They are all different depending on the time of day, server you’re against and where you are on the map. Little structure and a lot more fun. I don’t like rinse and repeat long like Fractals or Dungeons or GvG. All the same things.

Plus you can play other classes. Rangers, Engis, a Thief. Fun stuff that works as a fight develops and you bounce around steps, walls, domes, you name it.

Like Sich said, GvG is not the endgame by any means for me either. I do believe people burn out fast, I’ve seen it and move on. They may even come back to it. But PPT in wvw is a team aspect that the individual can participate in by upgrading, scouting, sieging, you name it. On any class.

What I’m trying to say isn’t ‘people should play the way i like to play’ its ‘please support the playerbase and stop communities from turning on each other’.

I have no problem with people preferring ‘organic’ fights or ‘strategic’ fights. Others prefer balanced matches that pit one team’s skill and organisation against another’s. I’d just like there to be a way for them to co-exist.

Currently, all we get is interrupted fights, wasted evenings and usually the blame for when a server’s community turns on itself.

Its not about who prefers what, its about top-down initiatives that will keep different types of players enthusiastic about the gamemode. We’re getting Raids for the PvE community why not support the Guild oriented PvP (i.e GvG) community?

Hi Byron .. long time no etc .. :-)
The Fight Arena promised by Anet for Guildhalls may present the opportunity for guilds that you are looking for .. not sure. Guess it depends on the size of it, and whatever the ‘rules’ are that Anet impose.

Hey Blood Nice to see you, we should catch up sometime.

I hope so, although they did look to be on the slightly smaller side. Not that I’m complaining, honestly I think they’ll be great. Looks like they’ve done a fantastic job with the pillar and prop concepts. It should create a nice 2v2, 3v3 Arena-type scene.

I just hope finally, with every other gamemode getting some love (in terms of team oriented content) that perhaps we are next on the list. Because more than anything I don’t want to see us being pushed into a situation where players and friends start pointing their fingers at each other. I don’t like to say it but we’ve been put here by years of neglect and denial.

Byron.1902:

What I’m trying to say isn’t ‘people should play the way i like to play’ its ‘please support the playerbase and stop communities from turning on each other’.

that is not supporting the community. That is supporting a very very small subsection of the community, for your personal benefit, that devotes devtime to your personal wants, while taking it away from the rest of the community.

Byron.1902:

I have no problem with people preferring ‘organic’ fights or ‘strategic’ fights. Others prefer balanced matches that pit one team’s skill and organisation against another’s. I’d just like there to be a way for them to co-exist.

You just described PvP, designed more for this.

It strikes me as very poorly thought out, to used the word “balanced” when in the subforums for the game mode that has been advertised as unintended for direct profession balance since before release.

Byron.1902:

Currently, all we get is interrupted fights, wasted evenings and usually the blame for when a server’s community turns on itself.

While the rest of us get nothing but space wasted by players not participating in the goal of this aspect of the game. Personally I feel your complaint of being attacked by other players in a game made designed for fighting other players for territory is a counterintuitive argument.

Byron.1902:

Its not about who prefers what, its about top-down initiatives that will keep different types of players enthusiastic about the gamemode. We’re getting Raids for the PvE community why not support the Guild oriented PvP (i.e GvG) community?

Because there is nothing to support they represent anything less then the smallest majority of the player base. Why should they cater to an insignificant minority in a video game?

Given the guild hall arena fights, your complaint seems odd to me. They took the time to give you what you want there, and you go on cluttering up this subforums to demand more?

Well OS is not going any where so you could have some wvw fight only zone. I would love to see them add in a “off” map of the old bl that you can jump into as if its an overflow wvw map and find other groups on other worlds to fight with.

I have a feeling ppl will get use to the new size of guild halls fighting ring its not that much smaller then os unless you count the odd water right when you come into the main gvg places. If there are a lot of open fields in the new BLs you could find gvg there to just fight. GvG happen with out guild halls or even os in no way will getting more spaces to gvg will make them worst off.

@Dancing Monkey. You’ve missed the point. By supporting the GvG scene you are supporting WvW. Currently we do ‘take up space and not participate with the main goal and objectives of the map’ as you put it.

If we had somewhere instanced to fight in that actually meant something (points awarded on win) we’d be productive for the server and we wouldn’t take up space.

As it is now, no one is getting what they want. You want us gone and we don’t want imbalanced fights. Plus trying to compare 5v5 with 15v15 or 20v20 makes you look a bit inexperienced.

As for interrupting fights, that is not being done by your enemy but by other angry PPT guilds on your own server.

Giving both sections of the community space to do their thing and making it count towards a common goal is supporting the Community. While it remains like this its a community divided and servers are at war with themselves. It got so bad on my server at one point that guilds were deliberately sabotaging each other and everyone suffered.

If you have such a clear idea what this gamemode is perhaps you can give me an example of how communities and servers are magically supposed to reconcile their differences. Ok this is my idea, what’s yours? Or do you expect us all to unite under the Turtle Banner and cruise around in Char cars together?

@Jski, OS is ok as a stop-gap. We’ve been fighting in their for almost 2 yrs now. The problem is not being instanced. Often you have to wait most of the evening for 2 other guilds to finish their scrim or 4 guilds take alternate rounds. Plus the trolls come and try to snipe your backline or FP, or you get some random ele casting meteor shower in the middle of the fight.

Also, if GvGs were supported, instanced and balanced we could have a framework that awarded points to successful guilds and work as a community towards a shared goals (server domination).

I’m tired of people trying to claim we’re such a small percentage of the playerbase. Most player’s ‘trajectory’ points them towards the team-fighting scene after a while. The reason there isn’t a larger GvG oriented population is largely to do with most people giving up and moving on as its not supported. The whole gamemode is leaking players hand-over-fist. Ok we’re getting an influx of new players with HoT, but perpetuating this model just isn’t sustainable.

ANET listen to PvEers when they wanted space for organised, harder group content. sPvP is finally getting some love with Leagues. Why is WvW the unloved ginger kid?

I’ve played wvw for nearly 3 years and i’m fed up of seeing GvG people asking Anet to pander to their needs. You bugged and bugged them and wasted lots of slots on our bl in prime time over those years, costing us many upgrades. You even had a dev tell you he didn’t like what you were doing in wvw. Then you got given obsidian sanctum. You got your gvg area, be happy. The gvg community I’ve witnessed on GH has been rather toxic, we’ve had guilds pass through who flat out enjoyed trolling us with their gvg’s knowing it was costing us wp’s, offering no help and being rude to people in /t non stop, so i’m content with them being on a different map having absaloutley 0 influence on my servers performance.

You’ve been given OBSIDIAN SANCTUM. An area designed for gvg/scrims. Why can’t you be happy with that, yes sometimes you have to wait, but so do REAL wvw players when they queue for a map. No it might not be big enough, but asking for instanced content for one minority group of players is just silly when there are so many existing things in wvw that require dev attention.

Edit, removed offending guild name to avoid name/shame

First off, PvP isn’t a suitable alternative. The nature of that game mode is holding objectives and there’s less build variety as it’s balanced around that and 5v5.

Secondly, I would probably try to avoid any majority/minority claims and focus on the actual merits. GvGs shouldn’t be shunned just because they play wvw diffrently, and the talk about queue space is a bit unreasonable as nobody owns it and is obligated to play PPT or what not. Even if it were a minority, maybe more people could be convinced.

However, I don’t agree with OP at all. I don’t think you can speak for the “natural trajectory” of players in wvw, but are projecting your own experiences onto them. And making GvG a part of the war score, would force all servers to participate in it, and therefore pushing it onto them. I also find it unnecessary, as anything involving score requires consistent attendance every week and that brings a whole slew of problems if people take breaks. I also don’t really like the lopsided descriptions of “people who love their PPT believe we’ve ruined their game-mode.” as if there were no wrongdoing from the other end of the story which is conveniently omitted.

OS should really be instanced though.

gvg guilds are fine by me as long as they don’t gvg on home bl when there is a que and are not jerks in chat. Guilds that are like this seem to have got along fine, especially if they pub raided when not gvg ing. Guilds that did use home bl when queued or were jerks in chat didn’t get along so well…..

I’d like to know which tier / server OP is on. If t3 NA – your numbers seem higher because that is where gvg guilds migrated to. This would skewer your count of gvg community.

Ps – you are a minority of a larger minority that wvw out of the overall player base. I can’t back up my numbers, but neither can you. I will present the idea if it was as big a group as you think, good business practice would lead anet to devout the resources. Resources are a finite number and will be devoted to the largest group of players (or that spend $$)….

Liston.9708:

I will present the idea if it was as big a group as you think, good business practice would lead anet to devout the resources. Resources are a finite number and will be devoted to the largest group of players (or that spend $$)….

See, that’s where players get kittened off. Because there was a large group of players who were around. The GvG players are like 5% of what they were these days. They got OS and now finally guild halls. Three years for guild halls, something that not only GvG players were asking for.

Chaba.5410:

Liston.9708:

I will present the idea if it was as big a group as you think, good business practice would lead anet to devout the resources. Resources are a finite number and will be devoted to the largest group of players (or that spend $$)….

See, that’s where players get kittened off. Because there was a large group of players who were around. The GvG players are like 5% of what they were these days. They got OS and now finally guild halls. Three years for guild halls, something that not only GvG players were asking for.

The general pop is also a fraction of what it was as well…. Let’s face it, wvw is a minority compared to pve – that is why so much attention is spent there. Gvg players are some percentage of the wvw pop and I doubt it was ever 50% of that… We all know limited resources are thrown at modes that will cater to the majority.

I hope everyone gets what they want and need, but understand why some segments won’t get the love…. I personally thought instanced OS where you can iNvite guilds was the best answer, but I don’t know how much work that would be….

GvGs are boring as hell, and they are not the endgame, its just no fun, just like SPVP. I can play 2-3 SPVP matches per gaming session before it gets so boring I have to go do something else.

What is the endgame, is taking a 20ish guild group and going against a 60ish guild group and coming out on top. Regardless if its objective takes / defenses or open field, or whatever else. That is the bomb. And by default, GVG guilds can’t and don’t do it, they can only break up pug blobs and thus suck.

Also, for everyone screaming for fair fights, can’t you guys go into the SPVP lobby and make a custom 20 person arena ? I think I have done this in the past, but not for a long time so not sure if its still possible.

Tongku.5326:

GvGs are boring as hell, and they are not the endgame, its just no fun, just like SPVP. I can play 2-3 SPVP matches per gaming session before it gets so boring I have to go do something else.

What is the endgame, is taking a 20ish guild group and going against a 60ish guild group and coming out on top. Regardless if its objective takes / defenses or open field, or whatever else. That is the bomb. And by default, GVG guilds can’t and don’t do it, they can only break up pug blobs and thus suck.

Also, for everyone screaming for fair fights, can’t you guys go into the SPVP lobby and make a custom 20 person arena ? I think I have done this in the past, but not for a long time so not sure if its still possible.

How many guild raid only guilds out there claim to be able to take 3 gvg guilds on at once without ever entering a gvg I wonder hmm..

Makes you wonder why they arent the top gvg guild.

It doesn’t make anyone wonder that. And to answer your question, I would say at least 10 guilds on my server alone.

Liston.9708:

Chaba.5410:

Liston.9708:

I will present the idea if it was as big a group as you think, good business practice would lead anet to devout the resources. Resources are a finite number and will be devoted to the largest group of players (or that spend $$)….

See, that’s where players get kittened off. Because there was a large group of players who were around. The GvG players are like 5% of what they were these days. They got OS and now finally guild halls. Three years for guild halls, something that not only GvG players were asking for.

The general pop is also a fraction of what it was as well…. Let’s face it, wvw is a minority compared to pve – that is why so much attention is spent there. Gvg players are some percentage of the wvw pop and I doubt it was ever 50% of that… We all know limited resources are thrown at modes that will cater to the majority.

I hope everyone gets what they want and need, but understand why some segments won’t get the love…. I personally thought instanced OS where you can iNvite guilds was the best answer, but I don’t know how much work that would be….

’Cos spvp was a sooo huge majority before reward tracks that they deserved the updates, yup nods
#Esportzzzz

dancingmonkey.4902:

It doesn’t make anyone wonder that. ND to answer your question, I would say at least 10 guilds on my server alone.

Everyone’s a pro fighter until they get in the ring.