Guild Wars 2

Anet seems to be hopping on the P2W bandwagon.

Some other items that I consider P2W:
Consortium Harvesting Sickle – harvests faster then normal
watchwork pickaxe – grants you bonus sprockets as you mine

dAcIaW.5107:

Anet seems to be hopping on the P2W bandwagon.

Some other items that I consider P2W:
Consortium Harvesting Sickle – harvests faster then normal
watchwork pickaxe – grants you bonus sprockets as you mine

This is no way, shape, or form Pay to win. What you just considered pay to win is just not what the definition entails, and that is a fact. And no, it’s not up to opinion regardless of how bad you’ll want it to be true.

This has reached an all time low. People will find the dumbest things to complain about and try so kitten hard to make their complaint fit into any category.

…do you even know what “P2W” means?

LMMFAO!!!!

And here marks a prime example of why I rarely even look at or am involved in the forums. It’s too hard not to troll the amount of “lolwut?” going on.

There is nothing described in this thread that falls into the “Pay to Win” category. For those of you who are describing these things as such, “I do not think this word means what you think it means.”

Pay to win is when a company sells an item, skill, or other feature that advances one player over another for real world cash with NO OTHER WAY of obtaining said items.

The items described in this thread can not only be purchased by simply playing the game, they do not offer a unique skill or feature. A sickle that harvests a little faster, so what, does that mean players who have speed boosts have an unfair advantage running from node to node over mesmers or other classes with very low speed boosts – NO. Picks that harvest extra watchwork pieces. Well, first, then buy one with gold. Second, so what – use your gold to buy the watchwork pieces. The simple fact of the matter is that none of these things fall outside of the same range of advantage that simply allowing players to convert real money to gold in order to buy legendaries, ascended armor, etc. It is not Pay to Win. For real information on Pay to win, visit R.A. Salvatore’s Facebook page, he recently had a very interesting write up on the practice.

Rabbi Rick.3194:

Pay to win is when a company sells an item, skill, or other feature that advances one player over another for real world cash with NO OTHER WAY of obtaining said items.

Exactly.

And because people will try to supplement their arguments with nothing more than personal dislike for not being able to control something, it must be spoken in plain English.

Being able to convert gold made in-game into gems is a smarter alternative that you would otherwise use real life currency to purchase items from the gem store. This has always been available.

X-amount of Gold converted to 300 Gems – Buy Candy Corn Gobbler – Use – Get buffs.

There is just not enough evidence to support that this is or will become pay to win.

Well, I wouldn’t go that far. If there is a cash shop method and an in-game method for obtaining something, but the in-game method is so onerous and tedious that you’d be saving yourself months of work by just ponying up the cash, then I think it could still be counted as P2W. I’m not saying that GW2 does this, but if you had a game where it would literally take you a year, playing 4+ hours a day, to gain your last 10 levels/skill points/trait points, OR you could just pay the company $50, I think that would be a P2W situation in all but name.

As for the Consortium/Molten Sickle and the Watchwork Pick, they’re not P2W items in themselves, but they do represent a potential power creep trend in gem store items that I regard with a fair bit of wariness.

It’s a marketing ploy, the gem store. Obviously they want you to spend money in there since this isn’t a pay-to-play game (i.e. subscriptions). Still doesn’t justify it as pay to win, since it does not meet the criteria.

No player is gaining any item that isn’t otherwise accessible to all other players through any avenue of payment, regardless of content. All players have the same access to all content and items in game.

The difficulty of achieving ownership over any item or content is not relevant.

That there is the problem then. P2W means different things to different people. Rabbi Rick was pretty clear with his definition. My definition broadens that a bit to include “the option to pay real money to acquire content, items, or achievements that would otherwise require large invested amounts of gameplay time”. (Case in point, the furor that erupted over the Flamekissed armor when it was first introduced. Many players, rightly or not, felt that it was P2W to let players acquire what arguably looked even better than T3 Cultural armor, even though the gold price if you sold gems for it was only slightly lower than the cost for T3 Cultural at the time.)

Some other players, meanwhile, only consider something P2W if it grants the player a direct advantage in PvP or direct competition. Buying expensive skins, gem store-only minis, etc. all do not count as P2W in their books, and still would not count as P2W even if the gem exchange did not exist.

Can the guys who think it’s not Pay-to-Win please anwser a few questions, I’m curoius:

1. If they would add an booster for 150 gems (lasts half an hour) that boosts all stats by +250, would you consider that P2W?

2. If they added an item for 3000 gems, that has like 30 secs cooldown, on activation isnatntly kills a player/boss/mob, would you consider that P2W?

3. If the item mentioned in question 2 would only work against mobs/bosses, would you consider it P2W?

4. If the item mentioned in 2 question would be available for 30.000 gold, would you consider it P2W?

Do you consider kill 1 enemy or a group of enemies “win”?

Zaxares.5419:

That there is the problem then. P2W means different things to different people.

That’s not a problem.

Pay to win has one true definition, and here several people are mistaken in what it means despite being given the definition multiple times, by multiple people, with varying degrees of clarity.

This is much like the common misconception that this game is free to play, but insist otherwise if you challenge them on that too. It’s buy to play with no subscription, and that’s all there is to it. So really, especially this far in, it’s not about the fact that people are mistaken, it’s that they’re holding onto their opinion very stubbornly despite the aforementioned descriptions and evidence suggesting otherwise.

They want it to be pay to win so they’ll have something to complain about, since the last bandwagon was already full.

Bubi.7942:

Can the guys who think it’s not Pay-to-Win please anwser a few questions, I’m curoius:

1. If they would add an booster for 150 gems (lasts half an hour) that boosts all stats by +250, would you consider that P2W?

No. AGAIN you can convert in-game gold to gems, which is fair to every player. And AGAIN the difficulty at which you attain the gold needed to convert into the gems required for purchase is irrelevant, because it’s still available.

Bubi.7942:

2. If they added an item for 3000 gems, that has like 30 secs cooldown, on activation isnatntly kills a player/boss/mob, would you consider that P2W?

This is absurd, but still fall into the previous answers’ category.

Bubi.7942:

3. If the item mentioned in question 2 would only work against mobs/bosses, would you consider it P2W?

If the answer to question one hasn’t sufficed, along with several other entire posts, then by now it’s too late.

Bubi.7942:

4. If the item mentioned in 2 question would be available for 30.000 gold, would you consider it P2W?

…-sigh-

Pay to win – Example: Player One – He doesn’t feel like earning his way to the level cap, so he buys all the max level gear, skills, and buffs needed to boost his stats. He does this with real life currency, right from the start, which is the only option and way to advance in the game anyway after a certain point anyway (or possibly beyond the maximum cap). Even though he will suck, but has better stats, he will win against other players based on that distinct advantage; he could not have otherwise gotten through playing the game because there is no way to earn, craft, or trade for it. He bought everything to win (bought = to pay for). This is very common in Shooter games.

You can’t craft, or obtain higher level gear or post-max level gear in the game at all in pay to win games without buying them with real life currency, and real life currency only.

(I hope I said that clearly enough that time)

Player Two reaches his level cap through playing the game it was intended, but can advance no further until he buys the max level gear. He does not buy the gear, stats, or buffs the only way it is available, which is through real life currency. So, despite being better at the game than Player One, he cannot win because he does not have equable gear to the player that had to, or chose to, pay in order to gain an advantage for assured victory.

Refer to “Gold to Gem conversion” before you keep trying to argue, “Well the boosters, blah blah blah.”

Another example: In the game “Mafia Wars” it is possible to buy Godfather Coins, which can be converted into “Skill Points” which you then use to boost whichever stats you want. Effectively, you could be a level 2 with level 3,000 stats.

Pay to win.

Styles.7469:

Pay to win has one true definition…

Really? Despite sounding like a Manowar song, what is the true definition of P2W? I’ve put in the effort of googling for 10 minutes “true definition of pay to win” and “pay to win definition” and alas, I only came up with 1 urban dictionary “defintion” (which btw is not what you stated), and lots of forum rants. Please do tell where you get the tru-metal-warrior definition from. No, your head doesn’t count.

As for the rest of your post:
So even in the absurd situations I mentioned you think it’s fair cause gold can be converted to gems. And that is your only argument. It doesn’t matter if a player might take weeks/months of effort/farming to get the same boost that the other player gets for 10 bucks in 2 minutes. I really wouldn’t want to live in your reality.

But ok, let’s not call it P2W then. is P2BS fine then?

Also may I ask, if everyone can get these buffs, what is the point of having them? Wouldn’t it be the same without?

Bubi.7942:

Styles.7469:

Pay to win has one true definition…

Really? Despite sounding like a Manowar song, what is the true definition of P2W? I’ve put in the effort of googling for 10 minutes “true definition of pay to win” and “pay to win definition” and alas, I only came up with 1 urban dictionary “defintion” (which btw is not what you stated), and lots of forum rants. Please do tell where you get the tru-metal-warrior definition from. No, your head doesn’t count.

As for the rest of your post:
So even in the absurd situations I mentioned you think it’s fair cause gold can be converted to gems. And that is your only argument. It doesn’t matter if a player might take weeks/months of effort/farming to get the same boost that the other player gets for 10 bucks in 2 minutes. I really wouldn’t want to live in your reality.

But ok, let’s not call it P2W then. is P2BS fine then?

Also may I ask, if everyone can get these buffs, what is the point of having them? Wouldn’t it be the same without?

You can try to argue semantics all you want, but try as you may, the definition stands strong regardless of how hard you want to spin doctor it…kind of like how I said this…

Styles.7469:

So really, especially this far in, it’s not about the fact that people are mistaken, it’s that they’re holding onto their opinion very stubbornly despite the aforementioned descriptions and evidence suggesting otherwise.

They want it to be pay to win so they’ll have something to complain about, since the last bandwagon was already full.

Urban dictionary…really? Yeah, I read that too, and it leaves a lot up for interpretation because it’s Urban dictionary.

I think I’ll stop now, because if the point hasn’t gotten across that this is not pay to win, it will never get across people as stubborn as you, lol!

Try reading. Try interpretive thinking. Try critical thinking.

The box. Once you move out of it, you will discover it’s not on the wagon! =O

I don’t even know why I bothered in the first place. I know it’s not pay to win, as a matter of fact and not a desperation of opinion.

But, then again, I can think independently.

What? You say it’s has but one true definition with nothing backing that up, no sources, no quotes, no books, no studied and the defintion you made up in your mind stands strong? Despite the only “definition” that can be found on the internetz that states otherwise. Wow. Not sure who is being stubborn.

Well I think P2W is gummibears. Stands just as strong.

You mean the evidence that not only I provided, but others provided granting insight into was pay to win really is? Or the examples I gave? Or acknowledgement of your finding on one site with an open interpretation on the internet?

Congratulations.

Styles.7469:

You can try to argue semantics all you want, but try as you may, the definition stands strong regardless of how hard you want to spin doctor it…kind of like how I said this…

Styles.7469:

So really, especially this far in, it’s not about the fact that people are mistaken, it’s that they’re holding onto their opinion very stubbornly despite the aforementioned descriptions and evidence suggesting otherwise.

They want it to be pay to win so they’ll have something to complain about, since the last bandwagon was already full.

Styles.7469:

Try reading. Try interpretive thinking. Try critical thinking.

The box. Once you move out of it, you will discover it’s not on the wagon! =O

I don’t even know why I bothered in the first place. I know it’s not pay to win, as a matter of fact and not a desperation of opinion.

But, then again, I can think independently.

I can just keep reposting this and be just as stubborn as you are, lol.

Convenience items do not fall into the category of pay to win because their effects are insubstantial to the overall balance of the game.

They’re insignificant in terms of use versus skill, meaning skill can overcome the use of convenience items just as readily as the mistaken assumption that these items will grant you any significant advantage.

Pay to win really comes into effect once you have to pay to stay on par with other players, which is something you couldn’t reasonably do without paying.

Not sure how many different ways the same thing needs to be said in order for you to understand.

Spending rl money on keys was the only way you could gain some of these buffs on a regular basis before, because the price of keys through gems to gold was too high. This item does the opposite, and makes the gem store buffs more affordable to players without spending rl money.

300 gems is about 45 gold.
A stack of candy corn is about 0.6 gold, close to the cost of some foods i use.

I really dont think that is out of reach of most players.

I have never spent rl money and i’m running the buffs. I’d say this item has actually removed the pay to win advantage the gemstore buffs brought, and made them more affordable to regular players.

@Styles:
Okay. I see you are most likely not a scholar.

1. Making things up is not “evidence”. Creating examples is not “evidence”.

2. If you state there is a definition, and you are referring to it, you should be able to show me where is that definition from, and is that acknowledged.

3. It is not up to the critic to prove you wrong, it is up to you to prove you are right. H0 (hypothesis zero) is always what you are stating (there is a true definition to pay to win) H1 (hypothesis one) is always that H0 is not true. In other words: if you say something exists, you should be able to prove it, cause proving something doesnt exist is impossible.

4. Definitions are widely acknoledged. That is what makes them definitions. You may call this band-wagon or whatever but that how it works. Eg.: I may call monkey an elephant. Does that make it an elephant? No.

Edit: Oh man, stop editing 4 times after you posted, pretty hard to reply.

+5% armor, +15% swiftness, perma 42 regen (or idk how many, haven’t tested) is not convinience. It gives advantage over others. Simple as that.

I’m more scholarly than you’ll want to give me credit for. Having anticipated your response, I came up with this…

I didn’t want to spam the 40+ links of “What does pay to win really mean?” and “True definition of pay to win.” on notable sites (like Steam and IGN) with likely thousands of people confirming what’s been said against you and others that I’ve been practically parroting.

Styles.7469:

I edited this part just to make you look at it again and see if you missed anything else, and now you wasted more time reading the..yep…that’s three times now.

As for the evidence…I can see you missed every detail about the gold to gem conversion and reasonable availability of boosters. Even the note about Mafia Wars’ which was important. Evidence following examples, directly from the source of the very game you’re trying to discredit as pay-to-win (which, by the way, occurs most frequently in free-to-play games).

(okay, so I may have misused the term evidence. I’m allowed to blame that on it being late and not having slept in over 28 hours)

Evidence. I edited this part just to make you look at it again and see if you missed anything else, and now you wasted more time reading my posts again to make sure there’s not anything added in all my other posts.

If you think about the reasonable availability of gems, and then continue reading you will find i did it twice in one post.

Alright, you got me confused by now.

1. You say you are a scholar yet you accept rants on forums as a definition.

2. You praise critical thinking and dismiss jumping on bandwagons yet you say thousands of peole are “likely” saying that on forums so it must be true.

3. You acknowledge you have not checked said forums but assume that they are likely saying the same as you so that must be the one true definition (I wonder why there even are “thousands” of these sites/forums if there is a clear def? makes little sense, no?)

I understand your concept of “because there is gold to gems and gem to gold conversation there is no P2W”. I just find it a bit naiv as it doesn’t take into account the difference in time and effort that can be gained by using real world currency.

1. I can think independently which discludes having to accept rants on forums as definition.

A.) I do not have accept rants on forums as the definition, which are subjected to bias and interpretation definition of the ranter, when the definition is the source of the rant to begin with.

B.) Am aware of what the definition is from personally researching it, along with having the wherewithal to interpret its meaning as intended, through experiencing it, and need no verification of the rants on the forums when the information has been available through notable sources (see also: a)

2. When you key word search a forum with a word or phrase with cntrl+F, and look at the number of listed entries on multiple pages, it is reasonable to come to that conclusion, despite not actually needing their support (see also; 1-a).

3. See 2. and also 1-a and 1-b.

a.) The clear definition is in discussion, giving approach rather than pause to the concept that thousands of people, or perhaps sites, have covered this topic.

b.) Some people need affirmation from others, or like to say the same thing but make a word salad out of it, perhaps sharing an experience and/or complaint.

Naivete isn’t on the menu, unfortunately. Available is the avenue of payment, reasonably obtained are the items. Even a casual in GW2 (like myself) can make 45g in a few hours of play time. New players, maybe not because they aren’t aware of the ins and outs of the game. -shrug-

I would actually just as soon not buy the gobbler or the buffs regardless of whether or not it was pay to win. They seem like a waste of gold/gems and time for a short duration unless you’re planning on doing some hard farming.

I don’t view them as having any significant advantage over another player. I used to run them in WvW back when I was a wee-noob. They didn’t help me then.

The Killstreak and XP boosters are probably the only two I would place value on since they help you get to level 80 faster by killing mobs, which is my personal favorite way to level…by playing and killing things.

@Styles:

My confusion grows.

1 A) – It may be my English (I am not a native speaker) but it seems you missed the point, moreover creating counterarguments for yourself. You are still saying that you are providing an idependent definition (what?) that you based on thousands of other people oppinions (what?).

1 I would like to see the results of your personal research as it seems you are not only the only one doing research but the inventor of the definition istself. Jokes aside, just because you read stuff on forums, and you form a concept in your mind, that does not make it a definition. It is your concept, you have yet to prove it, ackowledge it, test it, etc.. for it to become a definition. Remember the monkey vs. elephant example from my previous posts.

2. What does this even mean? You entered "True definition of P2W: P2W is the – inert definiton here – " into ctrl+f and you found multiple exact results? What is happening?

3. a.) If the clear definition is in debate, how can there be one?

b.) not sure why this is needed if there’s a true definition (cause there’s none?)

Without having to define “a few hours” and “casual” (I don’t want to get into that) could you share your method on how to make 45 gold in a few hours the casual way? I consider myself hardcore and also a leader of farming events on my server yet I am not able to hit this casual limit in a few hours. I am curious.

I believe the usefulness of the buff has some impact on the issue, and I do belive it affects WvW in ways it shouldn’t. Here are few examples that you might have not tought of at the first glance:

15% Speedboost means
- You can swap out traveler runes for something else while almost maintaining the same speed
- 15% faster golems
- Swapping out speed traits (eg.: mesmer inspiration line VI – compounding celerity)

5% armor boost
- it is significant in guild raids/zergs as you are gonna be healing taking damage a lot
- is about the same boost you get from exotic to ascended

regen boost:
- while in itself doesn’t seem like a big deal in a prolonged fight it can be significant, add to it that you the armor boost as well, so your regen becomes even more valuable

Well, did some basic calculations about the significance of the boosters with the following close to meta guardian build: http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fVAQJAWRn0HSZQWLEuDBBimAAAyEM5aA-TFhXgA8q/Ao8zRJIouAA-w
(ascended full soldier, 0-0-6-4-4, no traits, random skills, staff/gs)

Now take into account that my calculation is very basic it doesn’t take into account: Aegis, f2 regeneration, f1 not procing, any other skills besides autoattack, crit chance, crit damage, guard stacks, aftercast, etc..

The following example is 2 of these guards hitting eachother with staff 1, starting at the same time. Guard 1 is boosted with regen and armor booster, while Guard 2 is not boosted.

Power: 2013
Armor: 3242
Health: 20355

Guard 1: Power x weapon damage x 0.6 (skill coeff) / armor for guard 1 is ~ 446 / hit, meaning he has 892 damage per second (DPS)

Guard 1 takes out Guard 2 in 22,81 seconds, 45,62 hits.

Guard2: Power x weapon damage x 0.6 (skill coeff) / armor for guard 2 is ~ 446 / hit – 5% for armor booster – 20 for 1/2 sec regen of the regen booster. Meaning he does a total of 808 damage per second (DPS)

Guard 2 takes out Guard 1 in 25,19 seconds, 50,38 hits

If Guard 1 fights Guard 2 that means Guard 1 wins with 1924 HP remaining.

In this unlikely case the 2 boosters together mean a 10% DPS difference.

I would call that, significant.

Edit: edited for clarity.

It would be. IF everyone had the exact same gear, exact same skills, exact same traits and were exactly as good at playing.
That is NEVER the case, and as such the boosts are not enough to actually change the outcome of any actual fight.

The buffs are decent enough to be worth the money cost but the hassle of getting them up is the real price. I have been running them and I really like the ability to run Scholars over Travelers but I just cannot get myself to spend an inordinate amount of time building up buffs.

As an aside on cost that MF buff probably causes the cost of running this to be significantly cheaper than a straight forward estimate. I ended up with 2 exotics and 12 rares last night after a few hours of play and I rarely get one exotic or that many rares in a play session.

WvW is zerg based,that 42/hpsec and that -5% dmg reduction really isn’t gonna save your kitten .Even when you roam small scale the difference isnt noticable.Which can’t be said about Asc armor and Asc weapons,which give players a bigger advantage over others just by dumping 500+ gold,which also not everyone has or willing to create,which also is a p2w item by you guys train of thought.It would be different if its 20% reduction or 300hp/sec…but you guys are Really stretching this one.

@Bubi

Yes, it’s your english.

I tried to be reasonable and give explanation. You, therein, proceeded to nit pick at everything for minor, minor details. I told you I was done before, and I’m satisfied because I know I’m right – it’s not pay to win regardless of how badly you and the others want it to be.

You will have to excuse me because I have more important things to do with my day (and the three hours of sleep I managed to get last night) than sit here and go through detailing the real definition, it’s sources, evidence, my research etc. with a fine tooth comb (which apparently I’m supposed to take your word for doing also) to satisfy your need to be right over something you’re arguing just for the sake of arguing (hence the counterarguments) .

Because it’s not up for debate. Your perception of the definition of Pay to Win needs adjustment, while mine and the others like mine do not.

If people are insistent on calling this p2w then this probably is the most weakest example of it.

When I think of p2w, I think exclusivity or significantly reducing the effort needed for something. Like paying to get permanent stat increases, end game items, end game gear/materials for it, or special marketplace only abilities. Not minor temporary stat increases.

Also, just checked the gold to gems conversion. It takes about 53g to get the gems for the Candy Corn Gobbler. That’s can be easily achieved in half a day of playing the game, provided you know what you’re doing and are persistent.

get it out of wvw

I think most of the folks here complaining are the roamers. Big group players probably don’t care since 40 – 100 hp a sec is very minimal. Especially if they are poisoned.

Each buff is only 15 min, and its not a guaranteed buff for every 3 pieces of candy corn. Nor do they get to choose what buff it is.

For those who have it, use it well. For those who don’t have it, save up that candy corn and sell it once the Halloween event is over. Those Gobblers are gonna need it in the coming months.

i really need to find a new game.

i cant say i like the detection it is going anymore

“Pay to win” and “not balanced” are two different things. One does not justify the other.

Much of the imbalance comes from the inability to regulate numbers over a large map. Gear differences compound that problem. There’s also time-based advantages like guard stacks. This is why anet says it’s not balanced. It’s the equivalent of open world pvp.

We really don’t need gem based consumables on top of that pile do we?

Styles.7469:

@Bubi

Yes, it’s your english.

I tried to be reasonable and give explanation. You, therein, proceeded to nit pick at everything for minor, minor details. I told you I was done before, and I’m satisfied because I know I’m right – it’s not pay to win regardless of how badly you and the others want it to be.

You will have to excuse me because I have more important things to do with my day (and the three hours of sleep I managed to get last night) than sit here and go through detailing the real definition, it’s sources, evidence, my research etc. with a fine tooth comb (which apparently I’m supposed to take your word for doing also) to satisfy your need to be right over something you’re arguing just for the sake of arguing (hence the counterarguments) .

Because it’s not up for debate. Your perception of the definition of Pay to Win needs adjustment, while mine and the others like mine do not.

It WASN’T his English at all, it was you taking a “definition” you made up(since there is NO “true” definition of p2w since it changes from game to game. Oh well, you will give some anecdotal “evidence” that your definition is the “true” definition anyway.

sirflamesword.3896:

Styles.7469:

@Bubi

Yes, it’s your english.

I tried to be reasonable and give explanation. You, therein, proceeded to nit pick at everything for minor, minor details. I told you I was done before, and I’m satisfied because I know I’m right – it’s not pay to win regardless of how badly you and the others want it to be.

You will have to excuse me because I have more important things to do with my day (and the three hours of sleep I managed to get last night) than sit here and go through detailing the real definition, it’s sources, evidence, my research etc. with a fine tooth comb (which apparently I’m supposed to take your word for doing also) to satisfy your need to be right over something you’re arguing just for the sake of arguing (hence the counterarguments) .

Because it’s not up for debate. Your perception of the definition of Pay to Win needs adjustment, while mine and the others like mine do not.

It WASN’T his English at all, it was you taking a “definition” you made up(since there is NO “true” definition of p2w since it changes from game to game. Oh well, you will give some anecdotal “evidence” that your definition is the “true” definition anyway.

Firstly, I like it when people get mad before they even read up on the entire argument.

Secondly, it’s not just my definition. It’s the fact of the matter that what I so happen to know describe as Pay to Win coincides with the real meaning. You’re reading too literally into one word while missing key points in the argument. Understandable when you consider that you’ve missed the rest of the debate.

Thirdly, you don’t know how to use “anecdotal evidence” right. Stop using wiki or whatever site you’re using and half-comprehending what’s being said in order to sound intelligent. It failed.

Now then: Pay to win does not change from game to game, and you’re narrow minded for even suggesting it. It has one consistent meaning which is lost in interpretation by people unable to comprehend the root of its meaning. Other meanings dictated by a persons perception and often mistaken interpretation are still incorrect regardless of actual anecdotal evidence supporting it; despite a “definition” having a broad approach in describing something it still defers to what the actual definition is.

The simple version: Pay to win really comes into effect once you have to pay to stay on par with other players, which is something you couldn’t reasonably do without paying.

Yes, it was his English because he doesn’t understand what’s being said and persists with counterproductive arguments, on his behalf, that do little to justify what is or is not an exemplary representation of what truly is Pay to Win. His anecdotal evidence did little to support his argument while what I’ve said is still true. He could not disprove the “true” definition, nor could he prove his own.

You can use many ways to describe what Pay to Win means, but its true meaning does not devolve based solely on what someone thinks it should mean. There’s plenty of evidence available to support any theory, but the facts don’t change.

Candy Corn Gobbler is not Pay to Win, and that’s all there is to it. -shrug-

Haha. Candy Corn Gobbler is not pay to win, megaserver is not a server merge and the United States is the birthplace of the English language!!

Zoxea.9564:

Haha. Candy Corn Gobbler is not pay to win, megaserver is not a server merge and the United States is the birthplace of the English language!!

1. Candy Corn Gobbler is not P2W.

2. Megaserver wasn’t quite a server merge, though it did blur the lines significantly. I still play with more fellow Dragonbranders than anyone else in PvE, and WvW still has clear separation.

3. You are aware that there are different dialects of English, right? Since ANet is centered in the US, that is the default dialect for their English-speaking servers. Very frequently when you hit a “language selection” screen in software, you have a choice between American English and British English. Some even throw in Australian English.

caveman.5840:

i really need to find a new game.

i cant say i like the detection it is going anymore

Hehe, you comment made me think of this.

“Goodbye”

A stack of candy corn took about 8 min to process. Yielded the following buffs:

50% Karma – 13 min
Killstreak – 10 min
Crafting – 40 min
Speed – 52 min
Magic Find – 46 min
WXP – 5 h 44 min
Gathering – 14 min
Dmg Reduction – 59 min
Regen – 29 min
XP – 1 h 14 min

Cost was around 63s. If someone is buying WxP or other boosters, this is WAY cheaper.

Straegen.2938:

A stack of candy corn took about 8 min to process. Yielded the following buffs:

50% Karma – 13 min
Killstreak – 10 min
Crafting – 40 min
Speed – 52 min
Magic Find – 46 min
WXP – 5 h 44 min
Gathering – 14 min
Dmg Reduction – 59 min
Regen – 29 min
XP – 1 h 14 min

Cost was around 63s. If someone is buying WxP or other boosters, this is WAY cheaper.

This!

All I care ATM are WXP/XP/MF boosts for levelling alts. Anything else is just added bonus. This item is great for running in EotM, not so good in regular WvW. Besides Corn goes down really quickly and unless you have your own node in home instance you will have to pay for it sooner or later.

@Stlyes:
Oh god…

- What points? You just keep repeating “gold to gem conversation exists, thus it’s not p2w” like a broken record

- You are talking again about “the real” “one true” meaning that you have failed to proivde so far

- Dude, you are the one caliming there is a definition, you are the one who should prove something, which you didn’t

- You are calling the guy narrow minded, cause he thinks that meanings can change based on context? What? Dude, that’s the opposite, you are the one having tunnel vision.

- “You can use many ways to describe what Pay to Win means, but its true meaning does not devolve based solely on what someone thinks it should mean.” – Ironic, isn’kitten

Well, I think our conversation has run barren. As for the future, I think I will neglect your comments, and feel free to do so with mine as well. Howver I am still curious about how to make 45 g in a few hours the casual way – drop me PM – I’ll pass on the knowledge to my server, so you’d make lots of people happy.

@lordkrall:
Uhm, what? So are we assuming that lower skill leveled players get it thus it is balanced, or what?

@Caedmon:
Ah finally a real argument against it – ascended armor. Yes, it can be viewed as P2W cause of the horrible price it has, thus it can be more easily aquired with gems to gold.

But.

Here’s some thing supporting that that’s not quite true:

- It’s not advertised in the gemstore aka. real money shop – thus suggesting you should buy it that way
- It can be aquired any time, unlike the Gobbler, which is seasonal, thus forcing you to get it
- It adds variety in stats, letting you customize, the Gobbler adds the same thing to everyone (completely unneccessery I might add) which you either get or not
- It can be (even if rarely) from other sources (aka drops, achievment chests, etc..)

Note: I’m not happy about ascended armor in WvW.

Bubi.7942:

Uhm, what? So are we assuming that lower skill leveled players get it thus it is balanced, or what?

No. I am simply saying that your premise for supporting the whole P2W argument is based on a situation that will never happen. Thus it isn’t really a problem, nor is it pay to win seeing as it won’t actually effect the actual outcome of actual fights.

Find this thread amusing as hell. These booster are around from launch and i have a good load of them as well lying in my bank. I play wvw for like 2 years now and i think i ran into 1-2 guys so far using these boosters. So i have no idea what people are on about with their “pay2win”. Ofcourse it might create some imbalance but if it was really that good, why dont i see loads of people running around with those boosters?

@lordkrall:
How is a statboost not affecting the outcome of fights? That’s like saying well, you could run green items instead of exos, cause all in all, it won’t effect the fight. The example I provided, altough true it will never happen, is simply there to provide some insight that the boosts are noticable. The longer the fight, the stronger regen booster gets, the less the armor, the more the armor booster counts (as it is not actual armor).

In the example the armor booster provides around 250 armor (toughness) worth of damage reduction. Now depending on build this could be a lot more (with lower armor) or less (with higher). I would call that significant. And on top of that goes the regen and swiftness.

@Offair:
While it is true the boosters are around they are now (and have been for a good year) BL chest exclusives (which I’m also not happy about). Yes, they can be aquired but the difficulty for them to get is so high, that I rather not care about it.

I have seen a lot of boosted guys, and I do believe that I will see less in the future as the costs for it increases. As someomne mentioned earlier, it is also tedious to get it up. Those are not reasons however to add (more) imbalance.

Just remove the (stat) boosts from WvW and I’m happy.

You guys don’t seem to get that the gobbler will fail after halloween, unless you buy up thousands and thousands of candycorn now, it will cimb in price absurdly fast once the event is over, so you will be paying more and more gold to keep using it. After halloween it will slowly die out until next halloween when candycorn is once again EVERYWHERE.

Jeknar.6184:

Middzz.1490:

The Tp has always been full of oils foods and boosters ,this complaint is a total fabrication or ignorance.

The ones you buy with in-game currency don’t really matter as everyone can make them if they want. People are complaining because these boosters come from the gem store (which technically is their real money shop)… If you can’t tell the difference, I wonder who is the ignorant here…

If you havent found it yet there is a way to exchange gold to gems in the trading post menu, and everyone can access it at any time without spending any real money. 300 gems is about 40ish gold, which is pretty obtainable compared to food buffs (1g/hour), good runes (30-60g per set), ascended gear (500g), and whatever else.

Like others have said, wvw has never, ever been about every player having the same stats and gear, if you want that id suggest looking into spvp

These “Blob EOTM ktrain people” are extremely tiring. Soon, they will ask flying mounts. Anyway, against Camelot Unchained and Black Desert Online, there is no future for WvW.
ArenaNet can increase the dose of P2W, that’s not my problem. They chose the wii-sports pigeons, it is their choice.

Zoxea.9564:

against Camelot Unchained and Black Desert Online, there is no future for WvW.

Except the fact that none of them have a release date…

And based on information coming from Camelot Unchained it appears to move more and more away from the original plan by adding quite a bit of PvE and such.

Zoxea.9564:

Magnosian.8750:

All these boosters have existed since the launch of the game.. you’re a bit late in complaining.

Easy spam 500 hours boost pay to win for 300gems have existed since the release? I did not know, thank you to you.

Lol what are you on about, do you know how much candy corn you would need to spam into that thing to get 500 hours of one specific boost? Unless there’s some infinite source of candy corn out there, that stuff is 70s a stack and you’ll be luck to get an hour of anything besides exp.

The best part about this thread is the people expressing surprise that an item that gives WvW exp boosts is usable in WvW. Great stuff.

Jeknar.6184:

Zoxea.9564:

against Camelot Unchained and Black Desert Online, there is no future for WvW.

Except the fact that none of them have a release date…

Ding Ding Ding!

What do we have for him Johnny?

Camelot Unchained has no specific release date for a reason. It’s also where the idea for the WvWvW system comes from for GW2. I’ve played DAoC, and can say it’s got some sick elements to it that this game won’t be able to touch without overhauling the game entirely. By this point, it’s too late to make the transition without losing a majority of the population that is comfortable with how this game plays