Guild Wars 2

Same concept as Resistance Boon.

Everyone seems ok with resistance giving 100% damage reduction to conditions.

Edit- If you are laughing at how absurd this post sounds, you’re right it is. That’s the point, no boon should give 100% immunity to something. Just like Stability was changed from giving 100% immunity to stuns. Resistance should not give 100% immunity to conditions.

reduce resistance effectiveness to 30% and bring it in line with protection, make everyone miserable.

Condi reduction should scale with a stat (such as Healing). Resistance should boost that stat by a large margin for however many seconds it is up. Same with Invuln.

The all or nothing concept is ridiculously difficult to balance.

Sure, but only if my big power hits can also break your bones so your movement and skills are cut by 66%, puncture your lung so that your healing is reduced by 33%, and cause brain swelling so you take massive damage when you try to use skills.

Oh, and I need to be able to take vitality as a gear stat instead of ferocity with no loss of crit damage.

Sound fair?

Choppy.4183:

Sure, but only if my big power hits can also break your bones so your movement and skills are cut by 66%, puncture your lung so that your healing is reduced by 33%, and cause brain swelling so you take massive damage when you try to use skills.

Oh, and I need to be able to take vitality as a gear stat instead of ferocity with no loss of crit damage.

Sound fair?

Its more like Protection should ignore Stun, daze, knockdown, and launch effects. Those come from power attacks.

Seems like you want some equality. Let’s aslo make condition damage scale off a stat like healing power, also lets make weakness effect condition damage in a way, oh and let’s change all the damage reduction food to reduce condition damage to while we’re at it. Also seeing as the list of things that gives out protection is far bigger than what gives resistance, let’s make resistance more available to other classes as well.

After that you can revert the blasting light field changes back, well you could just remove cleanses in general since those aren’t fair.

Great suggestion by op 10/10.

If conditions need to be rebalanced, that’s one thing.

Putting in 100% immunity boon just makes things worse and is at best a bandaid that doesn’t solve anything.

Conditions would definitely need to be rebalanced if resistance was removed. But I do think that long term it will be much healthier for resistance to not exist and conditions to be rebalanced around that, than to keep resistance in the game.

Choppy.4183:

Sure, but only if my big power hits can also break your bones so your movement and skills are cut by 66%, puncture your lung so that your healing is reduced by 33%, and cause brain swelling so you take massive damage when you try to use skills.

Oh, and I need to be able to take vitality as a gear stat instead of ferocity with no loss of crit damage.

Sound fair?

This guy gets it. Thank you.

And for those who will state removing or changing it is no longer an option because a number of classes have it may i remind you the rework they did to stability before hot?
And yes conbisions in their current form are an issue either introduce a cap or make a soft cap with dr for each stack after that cap

The Game Slayer.7632:

Choppy.4183:

Sure, but only if my big power hits can also break your bones so your movement and skills are cut by 66%, puncture your lung so that your healing is reduced by 33%, and cause brain swelling so you take massive damage when you try to use skills.

Oh, and I need to be able to take vitality as a gear stat instead of ferocity with no loss of crit damage.

Sound fair?

This guy gets it. Thank you.

iirc you are also immune to the effects like soft cc etc no?

Tricare.2946:

Same concept as Resistance Boon.

Everyone seems ok with resistance giving 100% damage reduction to conditions.

Yea, resistance IS fine as is.

What, you want to be able to kill people with 3.5k armor and 30k health? (trailblazers in some builds.) Jesus.

No, if you want to go full cancer mode, then you don’t deserve a free kill so easily with trailblazers or dire. Have you thought of using a boon strip skill in addition to your full cancer mode stats?

The Game Slayer.7632:

Tricare.2946:

Same concept as Resistance Boon.

Everyone seems ok with resistance giving 100% damage reduction to conditions.

Yea, resistance IS fine as is.

What, you want to be able to kill people with 3.5k armor and 30k health? (trailblazers in some builds.) Jesus.

No, if you want to go full cancer mode, then you don’t deserve a free kill so easily with trailblazers or dire. Have you thought of using a boon strip skill in addition to your full cancer mode stats?

So every class has access to boon strip?

Also, like I said, Resistance is a bandaid for a problem. It doesn’t fix anything.

Seeing people stack 15+ seconds of Resistance is a joke.

And it’s not just 100% immunity from the damage, it’s chill, slow, immobilize, weakness, cripple, and fear. all skills that could at least buy time for the Resistance Boon to wear off.

Why does Protection not protect you from hammer knock downs? Or stuns? Because you need some form of control while fighting.

Resistance is Stabiltiy and Protection all rolled into 1 Boon and then set to max effectiveness.

zealex.9410:

iirc you are also immune to the effects like soft cc etc no?

Yes, resistance does. But the proposal is that protection provides the same negation as resistance. If that occurs, then power damage needs some modification for the periods when someone wouldn’t be under the effect of this new and improved protection.

Otherwise, RIP power builds.

Choppy.4183:

zealex.9410:

iirc you are also immune to the effects like soft cc etc no?

Yes, resistance does. But the proposal is that protection provides the same negation as resistance. If that occurs, then power damage needs some modification for the periods when someone wouldn’t be under the effect of this new and improved protection.

Otherwise, RIP power builds.

You said exactly what I was hoping for.

I made the comparison between Protection Boon (power defense) and Resistance Boon (condition defense)

You just said it would be bad for a boon to give 100% Protection because rip power builds…. so why do you think it’s ok for Resistance to give 100% Protection from conditions?

Resistance is hard to get for longer periods of time. Which is why it’s fine as it is. It’s not like it’s permanent with SoI as it used to be or close to permanent. There’s a clear counter to it called boon rip, so no issue really.

But do tell me in what style of play does the issue exist in?

Choppy.4183:

zealex.9410:

iirc you are also immune to the effects like soft cc etc no?

Yes, resistance does. But the proposal is that protection provides the same negation as resistance. If that occurs, then power damage needs some modification for the periods when someone wouldn’t be under the effect of this new and improved protection.

Otherwise, RIP power builds.

the op is being sarcastic because ppl act like resistance is balanced as it is which is not the case.

Right, but condi builds still viable despite resistance offering total immunity. This wouldn’t be true for power builds with a 100% protection buff.

I’m not saying they’re isn’t justification for different approaches to resistance, but it’s not a straight comparison with protection.

Choppy.4183:

Right, but condi builds still viable despite resistance offering total immunity. This wouldn’t be true for power builds with a 100% protection buff.

I’m not saying they’re isn’t justification for different approaches to resistance, but it’s not a straight comparison with protection.

its the only boon that directly does kind of the same thing with resistance but then again aegis is a more similar boon.

Also you cant exploit protection while you can exploit resistance and we see it with the epi bombs

zealex.9410:

Choppy.4183:

Right, but condi builds still viable despite resistance offering total immunity. This wouldn’t be true for power builds with a 100% protection buff.

I’m not saying they’re isn’t justification for different approaches to resistance, but it’s not a straight comparison with protection.

its the only boon that directly does kind of the same thing with resistance but then again aegis is a more similar boon.

Also you cant exploit protection while you can exploit resistance and we see it with the epi bombs

Again, the problem is epidemic, not resistance.

Also, his point is that you’re trying to compare an apple to an orange. It’s pointless.

Condi builds are very much viable even with resistance offering 100% immunity. Protection offering 100% damage reduction would make all power useless. (I’m simply re-iterating his point.)

The Game Slayer.7632:

zealex.9410:

Choppy.4183:

Right, but condi builds still viable despite resistance offering total immunity. This wouldn’t be true for power builds with a 100% protection buff.

I’m not saying they’re isn’t justification for different approaches to resistance, but it’s not a straight comparison with protection.

its the only boon that directly does kind of the same thing with resistance but then again aegis is a more similar boon.

Also you cant exploit protection while you can exploit resistance and we see it with the epi bombs

Again, the problem is epidemic, not resistance.

Also, his point is that you’re trying to compare an apple to an orange. It’s pointless.

Condi builds are very much viable even with resistance offering 100% immunity. Protection offering 100% damage reduction would make all power useless. (I’m simply re-iterating his point.)

Epidemic is absolutely NOT the problem. The problem lies almost entirely with resistance and the absurd amount of condis it allows you to stack on yourself, and the rest of it comes from how freely condis are handed out by every build now. Without resistance, you wouldn’t be able to stack this many condis up on someone before they died, so epidemic wouldn’t be able to transfer ~70+ total stacks of condis at once. The root of the problem is resistance and the proliferation of condis.

Resistance is just way too powerful to be a boon. If it has to stay in the game it needs to be turned into an effect. But ideally it should be removed completely.

and on top of that changing how the condi stacks work so mass stacking condis isnt as devastating as now.

Choppy.4183:

Sure, but only if my big power hits can also break your bones so your movement and skills are cut by 66%, puncture your lung so that your healing is reduced by 33%, and cause brain swelling so you take massive damage when you try to use skills.

Oh, and I need to be able to take vitality as a gear stat instead of ferocity with no loss of crit damage.

Sound fair?

Reduce protection and make it nullify crit hits

Choppy.4183:

Sure, but only if my big power hits can also break your bones so your movement and skills are cut by 66%, puncture your lung so that your healing is reduced by 33%, and cause brain swelling so you take massive damage when you try to use skills.

Oh, and I need to be able to take vitality as a gear stat instead of ferocity with no loss of crit damage.

Sound fair?

Power builds are not restricted from using Chill, Cripple, Poison, weakness Immob blind taunt and the like. They are certainly not as effective at using the damaging conditions but many power builds are designed around using the the conditions outlined.

I do not understand your point.

babazhook.6805:

Power builds are not restricted from using Chill, Cripple, Poison, weakness Immob blind taunt and the like. They are certainly not as effective at using the damaging conditions but many power builds are designed around using the the conditions outlined.

I do not understand your point.

That power builds/weapons don’t normally have those status effects, and certainly lack the damage output once the buff runs out if they do. Even if they have them a bit (cripple being the most likely), the lack of condi diversity means they’ll get stripped fairly easily when compared to the impairment caused by a full condi build. There’s also not much chance that a power build will have expertise or other condi duration extenders.

So, if you’re running full condi, your full damage and status effects kick in as soon as resistance is stripped or runs out. Those status effects (particularly chill) are especially useful for keeping your opponent to a minimal threat level. You also have epidemic as a very real threat despite (or because) an opponent has resistance up.

If you were running full power and someone used a new 100% protection buff, your damage would be completely negated if it landed at any point when the buff was up. You also wouldn’t have much in the way of status effects to reduce their ability avoid your hits outside of the buff, nor to reduce their threat level. You also wouldn’t have an equivalent to epidemic to somehow leverage.

So what do we have now with resistance giving total immunity and protection giving 33%? Are condi builds non-viable? I run into way too many condi builds to think they are. Are power builds non-viable? No, I see lots of those too.

There just doesn’t seem to be much of a justification for buffing protection to 100% or nerfing resistance to 33%. The damage types and status effects are just way too different. A 100% protection would kill power builds outright, but 100% resistance doesn’t kill condi builds.

Resistance buys time because today’s condi builds (especially in groups) totally overwhelm most classes’ ability to dump condis. This is especially true when big hitters can be buried under a pile of garbage condis, when builds have lots of iterative application, and when status effects last so long (e.g. compare the longest taunt to the longest chill application).

Choppy.4183:

babazhook.6805:

Power builds are not restricted from using Chill, Cripple, Poison, weakness Immob blind taunt and the like. They are certainly not as effective at using the damaging conditions but many power builds are designed around using the the conditions outlined.

I do not understand your point.

That power builds/weapons don’t normally have those status effects, and certainly lack the damage output once the buff runs out if they do. Even if they have them a bit (cripple being the most likely), the lack of condi diversity means they’ll get stripped fairly easily when compared to the impairment caused by a full condi build. There’s also not much chance that a power build will have expertise or other condi duration extenders.

So, if you’re running full condi, your full damage and status effects kick in as soon as resistance is stripped or runs out. Those status effects (particularly chill) are especially useful for keeping your opponent to a minimal threat level. You also have epidemic as a very real threat despite (or because) an opponent has resistance up.

If you were running full power and someone used a new 100% protection buff, your damage would be completely negated if it landed at any point when the buff was up. You also wouldn’t have much in the way of status effects to reduce their ability avoid your hits outside of the buff, nor to reduce their threat level. You also wouldn’t have an equivalent to epidemic to somehow leverage.

So what do we have now with resistance giving total immunity and protection giving 33%? Are condi builds non-viable? I run into way too many condi builds to think they are. Are power builds non-viable? No, I see lots of those too.

There just doesn’t seem to be much of a justification for buffing protection to 100% or nerfing resistance to 33%. The damage types and status effects are just way too different. A 100% protection would kill power builds outright, but 100% resistance doesn’t kill condi builds.

Resistance buys time because today’s condi builds (especially in groups) totally overwhelm most classes’ ability to dump condis. This is especially true when big hitters can be buried under a pile of garbage condis, when builds have lots of iterative application, and when status effects last so long (e.g. compare the longest taunt to the longest chill application).

I think you should revisit each weapon and reconsider. The difference between the weapons considered power as opposed to condition is generally just the amount of DAMAGING conditions one can throw out.

So ignoring damaging conditions (outisde poison which helps both builds)

As example GS warrior is power . It applies vuln and crippled.
Hammer warrior is considered Power . It applies immob , weakness , crippled.

Warrior LB is generally condition. It applies blind and immob
Sword/sw is usually condition . It applies immob and cripple.
Axe/axe is power it has vuln/cripple.

You can go through all the other weapons on other classes and find the same, that being if you do not look at the damaging condtions, the other types of conditions are found just as much in power build sets.

Now you certainly are correct in that they do not have the durations that a condition build does BUT the claim is made Condition builds do not have to trait for durations which you implied in your ferocity/vitality suggestion.

Now you are also correct in that you would generally have less cover conditions in a Power build but that hardly means those cripples/vulns/blinds poisons and immobs are not usable by power builds.

I play Power thief and power warrior both and rely on those conditions. D/p thief is premised on blind spam. Weakness and immobs on an enemy are of great benefit to power builds and people take things like weakening strikes and panic strike for this reason. Stacking vuln with a warrior via mace or with a power ranger using a LB and RF is used with regularity to boost damage.

The GS Power Necro leans pretty heavily on the Chills, Blinds Vuln and cripples his GS offers in that power build. A good many Power warriors will use hydromancy sigil just to get a Chill on weapon swap.

babazhook.6805:

I think you should revisit each weapon and reconsider. The difference between the weapons considered power as opposed to condition is generally just the amount of DAMAGING conditions one can throw out.
….
You can go through all the other weapons on other classes and find the same, that being if you do not look at the damaging condtions, the other types of conditions are found just as much in power build sets.

Now you certainly are correct in that they do not have the durations that a condition build does BUT the claim is made Condition builds do not have to trait for durations which you implied in your ferocity/vitality suggestion.

Now you are also correct in that you would generally have less cover conditions in a Power build but that hardly means those cripples/vulns/blinds poisons and immobs are not usable by power builds….

It honestly doesn’t seem like you’re being straight here.

You know the load of status effects delivered by a power build doesn’t come close to the status effects delivered by condi builds. And you also know the limited condi diversity that comes from a few unbuffed minor conditions attached to power skills are easily cleared when compared to condi builds.

Condi builds don’t need to be traited for duration to deliver strong damage, and my vitality/ferocity trade off enables the power user to cover off one defensive stat (like rabid, carrion, etc). Compare the damage output of most condi builds running rabid vs most power builds running valkerie, then imagine the condi user has an equivalent amount of time with 100% damage negation through prot as the power user has resistance.

Who do you think would win that fight? Tbh, I don’t even think the condi user would need protection at all.

Power and condition builds both benefit from control conditions.

Protection Boon:

Protects against – 33% power damage, that’s it.

Does NOT protect against – critical hits, physical control effects like launch, knock down, kick, pull, push, stun, daze.

Resistance Boon:

Protects against- 100% condition damage Burn, torment, poison, bleed, confusion. ALL control effects from conditions such as cripple, chill, weakness, immobilize, slow, and fear.

Does not protect against- power attacks.

Fear is a condition that is not only stopped by Stabilty but also stopped by Resistance as well. That condition gets the kitten end of the stick.

While at it, make condis reflectable so spammers have to think twice like i have to with my pewpewpew.

Offair.2563:

While at it, make condis reflectable so spammers have to think twice like i have to with my pewpewpew.

condis like posion darts and wirl finishers on fields arent these reflectable?

Yes, projectile condi attacks are reflectable.

There is no fundamental difference between attacks that apply mainly condition damage and those that apply mainly power dmg.

Tricare.2946:

Power and condition builds both benefit from control conditions.

Protection Boon:

Protects against – 33% power damage, that’s it.

Does NOT protect against – critical hits, physical control effects like launch, knock down, kick, pull, push, stun, daze.

Resistance Boon:

Protects against- 100% condition damage Burn, torment, poison, bleed, confusion. ALL control effects from conditions such as cripple, chill, weakness, immobilize, slow, and fear.

Does not protect against- power attacks.

Fear is a condition that is not only stopped by Stabilty but also stopped by Resistance as well. That condition gets the kitten end of the stick.

1. The protection reduction applies after the critical hit, so it reduces 33% of the extra damage there too. A 100% protection would completely negate critical damage.
2. Condis can do equivalent damage to power, plus have status effects that power builds typically lack (in both scope and scale).
3. Condi builds do full damage by investing in two attributes, leaving one attribute for extra defense (or extra direct damage), and this investment also boosts status effects. Power builds require investment of all attributes to achieve full damage.
4. Condi builds are as viable as power builds right now. In some contexts some are crazy OP, and in some other contexts they’re useless.
5. Direct damage application is typically concentrated in single, well-telegraphed, easily dodged hits. Condi damage is often delivered through iterative, poorly telegraphed hits, and often added on to regular hits through traits making mitigation except through cleanses much more difficult. Many condi builds can overwhelm the cleansing ability of most classes.
6. If you want to boost protection to 100%, you’ll have to boost power builds by quite a lot to compensate.
7. If you want to cut resistance by a lot, you should expect some nerfs to condi builds to compensate.

Whether or not condi is getting the kitten end of the stick is measured by end result, not the relative power of mitigating boons.

I see from your videos that you’re playing both power and condi reaper. Which one do you find to be more effective? Because I come across waaaaaay more condi reapers than power reapers.

Choppy.4183:

Tricare.2946:

Power and condition builds both benefit from control conditions.

Protection Boon:

Protects against – 33% power damage, that’s it.

Does NOT protect against – critical hits, physical control effects like launch, knock down, kick, pull, push, stun, daze.

Resistance Boon:

Protects against- 100% condition damage Burn, torment, poison, bleed, confusion. ALL control effects from conditions such as cripple, chill, weakness, immobilize, slow, and fear.

Does not protect against- power attacks.

Fear is a condition that is not only stopped by Stabilty but also stopped by Resistance as well. That condition gets the kitten end of the stick.

1. The protection reduction applies after the critical hit, so it reduces 33% of the extra damage there too. A 100% protection would completely negate critical damage.
2. Condis can do equivalent damage to power, plus have status effects that power builds typically lack (in both scope and scale).
3. Condi builds do full damage by investing in two attributes, leaving one attribute for extra defense (or extra direct damage), and this investment also boosts status effects. Power builds require investment of all attributes to achieve full damage.
4. Condi builds are as viable as power builds right now. In some contexts some are crazy OP, and in some other contexts they’re useless.
5. Direct damage application is typically concentrated in single, well-telegraphed, easily dodged hits. Condi damage is often delivered through iterative, poorly telegraphed hits, and often added on to regular hits through traits making mitigation except through cleanses much more difficult. Many condi builds can overwhelm the cleansing ability of most classes.
6. If you want to boost protection to 100%, you’ll have to boost power builds by quite a lot to compensate.
7. If you want to cut resistance by a lot, you should expect some nerfs to condi builds to compensate.

Whether or not condi is getting the kitten end of the stick is measured by end result, not the relative power of mitigating boons.

I see from your videos that you’re playing both power and condi reaper. Which one do you find to be more effective? Because I come across waaaaaay more condi reapers than power reapers.

In my eyes condi should be the slow steady killer from my experience with other mmos in general dot dmg takes a time to.build up and to get really dangerous which gives you time to react also such condi classes had kitten hp pools or w/e so they had the chance to dish out their dmg since it took time to build up.
From what iv seen tho in the last couple of days 1 can dish out so many condis that it looks more like burst rather than conistent building dmg.
I think there needs to be a distinctive factor between power and condi since power build rely more on burst and then some downtime until they are reasy to repeat but condi seems to flat out have high dmg at all times.
But then again not sure how the developers wanted conditions to work and exist in this game.

zealex.9410:

In my eyes condi should be the slow steady killer from my experience with other mmos in general dot dmg takes a time to.build up and to get really dangerous which gives you time to react also such condi classes had kitten hp pools or w/e so they had the chance to dish out their dmg since it took time to build up.
From what iv seen tho in the last couple of days 1 can dish out so many condis that it looks more like burst rather than conistent building dmg.
I think there needs to be a distinctive factor between power and condi since power build rely more on burst and then some downtime until they are reasy to repeat but condi seems to flat out have high dmg at all times.
But then again not sure how the developers wanted conditions to work and exist in this game.

Condis used to be like that in gw2, but as you say, it’s not like that anymore. I’m actually ok with condis being able to burst (makes for more exciting combat), but boosting protection to 100% against direct damage (or cutting resistance to 33%) would so badly skew the balance between the two that you’d rarely see power builds out there.

Choppy.4183:

zealex.9410:

In my eyes condi should be the slow steady killer from my experience with other mmos in general dot dmg takes a time to.build up and to get really dangerous which gives you time to react also such condi classes had kitten hp pools or w/e so they had the chance to dish out their dmg since it took time to build up.
From what iv seen tho in the last couple of days 1 can dish out so many condis that it looks more like burst rather than conistent building dmg.
I think there needs to be a distinctive factor between power and condi since power build rely more on burst and then some downtime until they are reasy to repeat but condi seems to flat out have high dmg at all times.
But then again not sure how the developers wanted conditions to work and exist in this game.

Condis used to be like that in gw2, but as you say, it’s not like that anymore. I’m actually ok with condis being able to burst (makes for more exciting combat), but boosting protection to 100% against direct damage (or cutting resistance to 33%) would so badly skew the balance between the two that you’d rarely see power builds out there.

Resistance only seems balanced because condis have been buffed extensively, both in power and in application. But these buffs to condis didn’t come out until after resistance was in the game. Resistance is just not a healthy buff in the game. Never was, never will be in its current state.

OriOri.8724:

Resistance only seems balanced because condis have been buffed extensively, both in power and in application. But these buffs to condis didn’t come out until after resistance was in the game. Resistance is just not a healthy buff in the game. Never was, never will be in its current state.

Didn’t resistance get added after HoT and at the same time that condi stack limits were removed? What other major buffs got added after resistance?

Choppy.4183:

babazhook.6805:

I think you should revisit each weapon and reconsider. The difference between the weapons considered power as opposed to condition is generally just the amount of DAMAGING conditions one can throw out.
….
You can go through all the other weapons on other classes and find the same, that being if you do not look at the damaging condtions, the other types of conditions are found just as much in power build sets.

Now you certainly are correct in that they do not have the durations that a condition build does BUT the claim is made Condition builds do not have to trait for durations which you implied in your ferocity/vitality suggestion.

Now you are also correct in that you would generally have less cover conditions in a Power build but that hardly means those cripples/vulns/blinds poisons and immobs are not usable by power builds….

It honestly doesn’t seem like you’re being straight here.

You know the load of status effects delivered by a power build doesn’t come close to the status effects delivered by condi builds. And you also know the limited condi diversity that comes from a few unbuffed minor conditions attached to power skills are easily cleared when compared to condi builds.

Condi builds don’t need to be traited for duration to deliver strong damage, and my vitality/ferocity trade off enables the power user to cover off one defensive stat (like rabid, carrion, etc). Compare the damage output of most condi builds running rabid vs most power builds running valkerie, then imagine the condi user has an equivalent amount of time with 100% damage negation through prot as the power user has resistance.

Who do you think would win that fight? Tbh, I don’t even think the condi user would need protection at all.

In your OP on this topic you suggested power builds could not apply chill , or weakness or Cripple and the like which is categorically false.

Those CONDITIONS are integral to many power builds even if said build has fewer cover conditions. Without vuln stacking just as example the damage output of a power ranger would plummet. Without blind Power D/P thief would get wrecked. One reason d/p does power does so much better then s/d power , just as example, is access to poison off the AA so as to inhibit an enemy heal. (its how you deal with warriors with healing and adrenal. You keep poison up)

I stated quite clearly I was not talking about the conditions that did damage. Of course a person doing a condition build will garner more damage off those just as a person going power will garner more raw damage then a condition build of their own power attacks.

The fact remains that weapons considered power DO in fact deliver conditions from which they directly benefit .

Both boons and conditions are completely out of control, permanent of incredibly strong boons like quickness, protection and stab has reduced many weaknesses that helped keep some abilities in check. HoT also brought a ton of extra conditions and CC too on attacks that really didn’t need it as well as extremely strong near immunities to conditions throwing it completely out of whack.

Here’s something to think about too, alacrity was deemed way too strong when it was the complete opposite to the cool down portion of chill so was reduced in effectiveness by 50%. Chill also has a movement reduction aspect and can be kept on targets far far more than alacrity.

What does that say about chill? I guess you can remove it but can’t alacrity but chill is imo way overturned given how easily it is applied by some classes.

babazhook.6805:

In your OP on this topic you suggested power builds could not apply chill , or weakness or Cripple and the like which is categorically false.

Those CONDITIONS are integral to many power builds even if said build has fewer cover conditions. Without vuln stacking just as example the damage output of a power ranger would plummet. Without blind Power D/P thief would get wrecked. One reason d/p does power does so much better then s/d power , just as example, is access to poison off the AA so as to inhibit an enemy heal. (its how you deal with warriors with healing and adrenal. You keep poison up)

I stated quite clearly I was not talking about the conditions that did damage. Of course a person doing a condition build will garner more damage off those just as a person going power will garner more raw damage then a condition build of their own power attacks.

The fact remains that weapons considered power DO in fact deliver conditions from which they directly benefit .

My original post pointed to specific condition effects that greatly impede opponents beyond damage when resistance isn’t up; that both mitigate their threat level and make it far easier to “catch up” for the time lost when resistance was up.

Most power builds don’t have access to those sorts of conditions in any significant way (reaper excluded with chill (and fear), though duration is much less on a power build).

The examples you mentioned, like vulnerability and cripple on the warrior gs, don’t come close to replicating that. Thus, I still maintain the point: crank protection to 100% and you’ve effectively killed power builds.

Choppy.4183:

babazhook.6805:

In your OP on this topic you suggested power builds could not apply chill , or weakness or Cripple and the like which is categorically false.

Those CONDITIONS are integral to many power builds even if said build has fewer cover conditions. Without vuln stacking just as example the damage output of a power ranger would plummet. Without blind Power D/P thief would get wrecked. One reason d/p does power does so much better then s/d power , just as example, is access to poison off the AA so as to inhibit an enemy heal. (its how you deal with warriors with healing and adrenal. You keep poison up)

I stated quite clearly I was not talking about the conditions that did damage. Of course a person doing a condition build will garner more damage off those just as a person going power will garner more raw damage then a condition build of their own power attacks.

The fact remains that weapons considered power DO in fact deliver conditions from which they directly benefit .

My original post pointed to specific condition effects that greatly impede opponents beyond damage when resistance isn’t up; that both mitigate their threat level and make it far easier to “catch up” for the time lost when resistance was up.

Most power builds don’t have access to those sorts of conditions in any significant way (reaper excluded with chill (and fear), though duration is much less on a power build).

The examples you mentioned, like vulnerability and cripple on the warrior gs, don’t come close to replicating that. Thus, I still maintain the point: crank protection to 100% and you’ve effectively killed power builds.

You are still wrong. I play power builds on 80 percent of my toons. I rely on cripple, blind, weakness , taunt , Immob and the like in those builds. Many of the same weaponsets used for Condition are used or can be used in a power build. They have access to the same NUMBER of those types of conditions.

Power warriors WILL use bladetrail to chase off GS. They will also use Throw axe off axe. I can go across the board and give other examples of the same.

Go to metabattle. The two highest ratest POWER warrior builds use Hydromancy sigils for chill on their weapons. Why would they do that if it of little benefit?

I would point out that no warrior weapon set has access to chill and if you look at the metabttles CONDITION builds for warrior none use that sigil.

Just to add I am not suggestion protection be given 100 percent uptime in any way shape or form. I am just disagreeing with ythe point you made on power builds not being to benefit from conditions inherent in their weaponsets.

i think we are getting to a ridicoulos point. I think next step will be give to condi players the win button, wich will create an aoe condi explosion on opposite blob and delete their character from the anet database.
Really guys be realistic, you are already using a dumb proof gameplay wich anet created exactly for your slow spamming condi aoe classes, since you had not enough skill for timing attacks, what you want next? You are really thinking you deserve the results you are getting with your condi specs? You really think you are putting at least half the effort required to play those power specs? Open your eyes kids..

The problems with combat in this game now are many.

Play against certain builds and you get ‘dodged, invuln invuln invuln block block block resistance, or ’poof’ reset, blah blah blah.

None of these should be 100% effective, but should grant a percentage reduction instead.

But this would involve too much effort for the balance team, so it’s not going to happen.

babazhook.6805:

gil. Just to add I am not suggestion protection be given 100 percent uptime in any way shape or form. I am just disagreeing with ythe point you made on power builds not being to benefit from conditions inherent in their weaponsets.

Then you missed the point entirely. The point I made was that power builds would need access to these higher level status effects if protection got boosted to 100% mitigation.

And, let’s be real, the cripple on bladetrail is not even close to the same league as status effects on a condi heavy build. It’s a slow moving skill with a 15s cd that’s easily cleansed.

Choppy.4183:

babazhook.6805:

gil. Just to add I am not suggestion protection be given 100 percent uptime in any way shape or form. I am just disagreeing with ythe point you made on power builds not being to benefit from conditions inherent in their weaponsets.

Then you missed the point entirely. The point I made was that power builds would need access to these higher level status effects if protection got boosted to 100% mitigation.

And, let’s be real, the cripple on bladetrail is not even close to the same league as status effects on a condi heavy build. It’s a slow moving skill with a 15s cd that’s easily cleansed.

They do have access to higher level status effects, it’s called stun, knock down, daze, pull.

Protection Boon doesn’t protect against those because that would be too strong….. just like Resistance Boon. Which, protects against condition DAMAGE and CONTROL effects.

Tricare.2946:

They do have access to higher level status effects, it’s called stun, knock down, daze, pull.

Protection Boon doesn’t protect against those because that would be too strong….. just like Resistance Boon. Which, protects against condition DAMAGE and CONTROL effects.

None of which have close to the ease of application as the chills from your necro, nor most condis. Also, a stunbreak breaks all control effects… are you proposing a condi clear wipes all condis too?

In any case, once the power user manages to survive the extended period of no damage (and, remember, people already complain when a warrior uses double EP), then he’s not going to be any sort of threat when he’s buried under all dem condis.

Seriously, where is the case based in actual gameplay that justifies protection being buffed to 100%?

The point of the post is to make people realize how absurd it is for a boon to give 100% immunity.

Which you believe is the case with the Protection Boon. If it had 100% damage reduction it would be OP.

Now why can you not see how that is the case for Resistance Boon?

Condition builds and application is a whole different argument, that’s not what this is about.

Anet even thought that stability giving 100% immunity to control effects was too much and put stacks on them, so there was a counter to the Boon other than waiting it out or Boonstrip.

Tricare.2946:

Which you believe is the case with the Protection Boon. If it had 100% damage reduction it would be OP.

Now why can you not see how that is the case for Resistance Boon?

Because condi is still viable, and occasionally overtuned, despite resistance granting 100% immunity to condi damage and status effects.

Choppy.4183:

Tricare.2946:

Which you believe is the case with the Protection Boon. If it had 100% damage reduction it would be OP.

Now why can you not see how that is the case for Resistance Boon?

Because condi is still viable, and occasionally overtuned, despite resistance granting 100% immunity to condi damage and status effects.

The other day I saw a chronomancer put up 10 seconds of Resistance, have 10 stack of burning 12 bleed and other conditions. He was able to finish the necromancer off before Resistance was even gone because the necromancer had no way of controlling the fight.

Not only were the damage conditions being ignored but the control conditions as well.

Couldn’t fear him. Resistance. Couldn’t chill him. Resistance. Couldn’t cripple him. Resistance. Get my point? There’s no counter to it other than wait it out. But that much harder to do when you can’t slow down your opponent.