Guild Wars 2

Continued -

So why, again, exactly, does no one want to play with me?

Here’s the “reasonable” explanations given for exclusions in order received/evolved:

U can’t be on TS – true that – so what – squad not full
Just go on TS and pretend u can hear – humiliating for me for personal reasons – if its not for others great – but really? this is a solution?
Life’s not fair – buck up buttercup – u really think a deaf person needs to be “advised” on growing a thick skin? lol
U can’t follow tag – um, really? – its a zerg blob of dots lol (I can follow cmdr quite well when I want to)
U don’t get special treatment – never asked for it – don’t need typemand, don’t need anything – just want to play in squad
Go play another map -I waited in que, other maps had ques, I had boosters/food popped
Go play with another cmdr on map – there weren’t any
Go play another game mode (pve/pvp) – no, I like wvw and play it regularly
Go play another game – really? Mean! Violates COC! Ask yourself why?
U have no right to play everything in wvw – I am, by your own admission, being precluded from playing the main featured/advertised content of wvw (running w/ cmdr-led squads) on all maps – its 1/3 of the game and I paid just like u to play
Its the same thing if ur in squad or out – we all know that’s disingenuous – I don’t get buffs/protections/rezes/xp/loot – but it sounds so “reasonable” and “earnest”
U cant play noob – go back to pve, u suck – um, no (but ok, I respect their opinions)
Go get ur own tag – cant and don’t want to
Cmdr has legit reasons for exclusion – many were given, some might apply if squads were full or guild runs, but not to prime time partial full 1 cmdr on map scenarios
Cmdr has 100% right to exclude – there is a kick button, but that doesn’t mean it should be used to discriminatorily exclude/abuse players – I don’t think anet intends that or wants that – I see no language in COC/TOS/kick mechanics explanations/instructions that grant that “right”
Its cmdr right to do whatever he/she wants – really? not sure about that – and if that’s true, I’m trying to change that (sorry u don’t like my opinion/attempts to change it)
Ur not a vet – ur not serious enuf – yawn – been playing gw 1 and 2 since betas regularly on same server for years – in fact longer than most players
Ur always complaining (before this incident I haven’t spoken in wvw for 2 years)
U die too much – O, that problem got much better once I was forced out of squad protections (I play zerk – no one objects to all the loot/kills they get from my play – which btw u still benefit from my play when I am out of squad cuz I do so much damage – but I don’t receive protections/buffs/xp/loot from yours – nice)
U went about complaining all wrong (really? if being polite/reasonable is the wrong way to do things, I’m not sure what’s left in the world – remember- I did not go on TC or here til I received vitriol in response to my reasonable, polite requests to join and for legit explanations re: exclusion)
U rant and that’s unforgiveable (really? there aren’t worse things in the world than complaining to make people aware of a problem/attempting to effectuate changes a few snobs might not like)
We’re nice, and reasonable and ur not – laughable on so many levels I don’t know where to begin – I never initiated vitriol – I reacted (rarely to same extent) in kind
We’re mean girls and we don’t like u and that’s our right to exclude anyone we don’t want to play with – ur already playing with me – its a team; I’m on same map already; if u don’t like me, block me (what’s not to like? – I’m silent when I play unless I see gross injustice or game play in extreme violation of anet rules)
Now – u have a bad attitude – I have a lovely attitude actually (I’m the original unique delicate snowflake – a wonderfully feminine thing to love)
What’s next? I cant wait to find out

Maybe instead of attacking me and mischaracterizing the events that led up to my whining/complaining behavior (obviously the worst possible behavior a human can engage in, cuz so annoying, and annoying is so much worse than being prejudicial or mean) – u should all look at the behaviors assailed against me and ask why its ok for that behavior to stand and that we should all just suck it up and let it ride and go away in silence so u can enjoy ur game play

Really, I don’t know why I’m not being allowed to play. Sounds like broad scale conspiracy to exclude in support of arbitrary mean-spirited game play which is harsh and disadvantageous to new players, players, squad, server, game mode, and game.

Eater of Peeps.9062:

LOL. Ive been silent in wvw for 2 years. Silent – no talk at all. Isnt that evidence? Idk who else to turn to but the boss at this point – the kiddies don’t seem to know how to play nice.

I impact on others’ enjoyment of the game? O, I get it – they can impact my enjoyment all day long, excluding me from squad cuz I’m deaf (yes, that was original cause for no invite – can’t be on TS) for hrs on end days on end maps on end – and I’m supposed to just go away, shut up, uninstall so u can enjoy ur game play? Um. No.

Squads have made it quite clear they don’t like me, both with vitriol and exclusionary tactics. My posts in forum are in response to what cmdrs/squad leaders did, and how squad leaders/members reacted to my initial polite inquiries/complaints.

Remember, I did not go on TC to complain until I’d already received escalating insults cuz I was persistent, asking multiple times to be let in, explaining I was deaf, explaining I had several reasons preventing me from accessing TS. Nearly instantly, I was insulted, told to shut up, told to go away, and made fun of. Also, please remember, the length of my rant on TC matched exactly the length of time the cmdr/squad monopolized the map (1 cmdr per map) and excluded me for no legit reason. The rest of the vitriolic insults came from others FIRST.

I chose to react by not slinking away or shutting up. I chose to make community aware of a problem, both on TC and here, as is my right – which Anet endorses players to do. My posts have been polite/positive, unless someone posts a nasty insult, and then I react (just like in TC). I am polite/silent unless I react to people who initiate vitriol against me.

You say that you’ve been silent for two years, but you’ve also said that you “have always been invited/allowed until just recently” and that people don’t like you.

Those statements seem to be in conflict with each other, which is why you should make some effort to find out what’s really happening rather than calling on Anet to solve your problems for you at the expense of other people.

That you’re now claiming that you’re being excluded because you’re deaf is, based on your own statements about being able to join squads until recently, people not liking you, etc., a crock of kitten. TS is no more a requirement now for squads than it has been before – some commanders require it and others don’t. Yet your claim is that no commanders let you in their squads, whereas before they did.

Anet’s not going to solve your problem here, and nor should they. It’s up to you to solve your problem and, so far, it looks like you don’t even intend to figure out what your problem actually is.

Choppy.4183:

Eater of Peeps.9062:

LOL. Ive been silent in wvw for 2 years. Silent – no talk at all. Isnt that evidence? Idk who else to turn to but the boss at this point – the kiddies don’t seem to know how to play nice.

I impact on others’ enjoyment of the game? O, I get it – they can impact my enjoyment all day long, excluding me from squad cuz I’m deaf (yes, that was original cause for no invite – can’t be on TS) for hrs on end days on end maps on end – and I’m supposed to just go away, shut up, uninstall so u can enjoy ur game play? Um. No.

Squads have made it quite clear they don’t like me, both with vitriol and exclusionary tactics. My posts in forum are in response to what cmdrs/squad leaders did, and how squad leaders/members reacted to my initial polite inquiries/complaints.

Remember, I did not go on TC to complain until I’d already received escalating insults cuz I was persistent, asking multiple times to be let in, explaining I was deaf, explaining I had several reasons preventing me from accessing TS. Nearly instantly, I was insulted, told to shut up, told to go away, and made fun of. Also, please remember, the length of my rant on TC matched exactly the length of time the cmdr/squad monopolized the map (1 cmdr per map) and excluded me for no legit reason. The rest of the vitriolic insults came from others FIRST.

I chose to react by not slinking away or shutting up. I chose to make community aware of a problem, both on TC and here, as is my right – which Anet endorses players to do. My posts have been polite/positive, unless someone posts a nasty insult, and then I react (just like in TC). I am polite/silent unless I react to people who initiate vitriol against me.

You say that you’ve been silent for two years, but you’ve also said that you “have always been invited/allowed until just recently” and that people don’t like you.

Those statements seem to be in conflict with each other, which is why you should make some effort to find out what’s really happening rather than calling on Anet to solve your problems for you at the expense of other people.

That you’re now claiming that you’re being excluded because you’re deaf is, based on your own statements about being able to join squads until recently, people not liking you, etc., a crock of kitten. TS is no more a requirement now for squads than it has been before – some commanders require it and others don’t. Yet your claim is that no commanders let you in their squads, whereas before they did.

Anet’s not going to solve your problem here, and nor should they. It’s up to you to solve your problem and, so far, it looks like you don’t even intend to figure out what your problem actually is.

Let me spell it out for u – I was silent. Many newer people in squad did not even know me cuz Ive not spoken in yrs – they had no basis to not like me – including the people that first day in control of excluding me.

I complained about the exclusion. I persisted. They insulted me. I reacted. Over much time, and many postings/“explanations”/defenses/disingenuity, many eventually admitted (just like the post I responded to) that they just didn’t like me because I had complained about the punitive nature of the exclusion on forum and TC.

Hence, my conclusion that the reason now for the recent slew of closed squads excluding me on my server (as has been confirmed in vitriol many times over) is that they don’t like me because I complained and didn’t just eat it and go away and it is a concerted effort to preclude me because I complained.

NO conflict. No contradiction. Evolution.

Also, what’s the expense of others? What expense? How exactly r u hurt by my complaints?

I think anet should get involved and fix it.

Eater of Peeps.9062:

Also, what’s the expense of others? What expense? How exactly r u hurt by my complaints?

The more you describe the situation, the more it sounds like you’ve been a pain in the ass to the point that people don’t want to play with you. That you want Anet to force them to play with you is you seeking to force yourself on those people at their expense.

I’m not personally impacted by any of it, though what you’re calling for would, once again, lead other people to thrust themselves on other squads. It would also create a great tool by which people could troll entire squads without recourse.

This sounds like Mez on BG. Also why don’t you just go to EOTM, sounds more like your speed.

lest we all forget – this is happening to lots of players -broad scale exclusion of whole classes/builds/newbies/etc.

Choppy.4183:

Eater of Peeps.9062:

Also, what’s the expense of others? What expense? How exactly r u hurt by my complaints?

The more you describe the situation, the more it sounds like you’ve been a pain in the ass to the point that people don’t want to play with you. That you want Anet to force them to play with you is you seeking to force yourself on those people at their expense.

I’m not personally impacted by any of it, though what you’re calling for would, once again, lead other people to thrust themselves on other squads. It would also create a great tool by which people could troll entire squads without recourse.

Whats the expense again? – we are already there playing on the same map with u for/on the same team. No forcing of any kind, in or out of squad, its the same thing – we are already forced to play together as anet intended in creating a team environment.

If u don’t like me – block me if u need a safe space. Same in or out of squad.

Trolling? I have never trolled anyone. I am upset about a problem. I was reasonable. I asked politely. I complained. That’s it.

The recourse to trollers? Block em. See above. Not a reason to exclude.

Eater of Peeps.9062:

Whats the expense again? – we are already there playing on the same map with u for/on the same team. No forcing of any kind, in or out of squad, its the same thing – we are already forced to play together as anet intended in creating a team environment.

If u don’t like me – block me if u need a safe space. Same in or out of squad.

Trolling? I have never trolled anyone. I am upset about a problem. I was reasonable. I asked politely. I complained. That’s it.

The recourse to trollers? Block em. See above. Not a reason to exclude.

That they have to tolerate you in squad chat, and have you follow them from map to map, when they’ve evidently decided that they don’t want to.

And if the problem is as widespread as you claim, you’re effectively saying that having entire squads block you so they don’t have to put up with you is reasonable. So too with genuine trollers, who could simply flood squad chat with garbage, troll content, etc. if they wanted to, with the fix being that every person in squad block them.

The reason to exclude has already been pointed out. They don’t want to play with you. It’s up to you to figure out why and to do something about it, whether that means make amends, find people who don’t already have a negative impression of you, learning to play outside of squads or even just roaming, or finding more fun in other aspects of the game is entirely up to you.

That’s about the best you can hope for, and it’s totally within your power to make it happen.

Eater of Peeps.9062:

Firebaall.5127:

One would even think the squad leaders on Black Gate read the forums, and specifically don’t want certain people to join due to their attitudes. That’s 100% within their rights. Unless they are harassing you…. leave them alone.

Where does the TOS/COC or kick function say cmdrs have 100% “right” to exclude people from squads due to their attitudes (I.e. – “we don’t like u, go away”)? O u mean cuz they can push an available button? I don’t agree. Just cuz they can push the button to exclude people for mean prejudicial reasons doesn’t mean they should, and it certainly doesn’t mean Anet endorses it or meant for that simple function to be utilized to ostracize people.

And lest u all forget, the exclusionary behavior as well as the initial vitriol came from the squad leaders in control of the button pushing in the first place – I never initiated the bad attitude – I reacted to it. But now, somehow I have the bad rep? LOL (And btw – I have never spewed the kind of vitriol against anyone in squad or here that has been spewed against me – and why, cuz in my instance, as a deaf person unable to use the "required"TS I said it was unfair to get booted – which squad leaders/members then escalated into a nasty insult fest?).

Yah, I can see why I would have a such a bad rep that no squad should want to play with me. Guess I better go home now tuck tail and hope they all leave me alone.

There’s no reason players should have to include anyone they don’t want around. The fact that a commander can lock his squad is evidence alone that this is intended. Why shouldn’t a player be able to ignore a troll, or under-performing player?

Your position holds as much water as saying it’s not fair party members in raids and fractals can kick players, or not allow them to join in the first place. You’re not entitled to force yourself on others.

Jumpin Lumpix.6108:

So all players who play for loot are horrible players lol? Great logic, I can see you have an axe to grind.

No axe to grind. Those that play the game modes only for the rewards are not wanted for a tightly knit PvP group, and that’s one reason to keep them from joining their formed party/squad.

Another could be that they just don’t like the person. This is also a valid reason to exclude somebody from their party/squad. There’s no reason or rule to force people to play the game with anybody.

As above, if u don’t like me block me if u need a safe space.

As above, I am silent when I play, unless someone has done something egregiously unfair or in extreme violation of COC/TOS.

The problem is widespread – I was bombarded with pms in support from ppl being harassed/made fun of on TS/precluded for class/builds/wrong foods/utils/the ubiquitous no TS (in half full squads this makes no sense as a requirement – helpful tool yes, exclusionary unreasonable demand no).

Put up with me? I’m already on the map playing with u. I’m already in TC/say/MC. Squad chat is the hair that broke the camel’s back? lol. buttercups.

If u don’t like what I say block me if u need to.

Not every person feels the need to block. Most can handle trolling and legitimate complaints. Mine r legit complaints.

Also, when did it become official Anet position that tc/mc/squad chat/say r reserved in wvw for callouts only? Never saw that posted anywhere.

They don’t want to play with me. Too bad = they already are – I’m in the zerg on same map in mc/tc/say. I bought the game just like them. The reverse is true too – I may not like them, yet am forced to join the only squad available, full of people I may not like or may feel the need to block. In my personal case, none of that is true. There are many people in wvw I like and get along with quite well and I never block anyone or feel the need to and also simply don’t care if ppl like me or don’t. Not out to make friends – I’m out to play the game and win.

Don’t want to figure it out. Just want to change it if I can. Will continue to complain.

I am doing something about it.

Don’t need to make amends. What did I do? Complain that the requirement of TS as to a deaf person w/ several reasons preventing them from using a 3rd party app to play the game is unreasonable is something I should apologize for? Remember, I did not throw the first insult or the first trail of tears vitriol.

Lots of people don’t have a negative impression of me, and are supportive of what I’m doing. So what?

Believe me, I know quite well how to play outside of squads. I especially love rebuilding SM and killing critters for xp. However, Y do ppl think they have the right to force me to do that, when it doesn’t help server and I (and others) am being forcibly precluded from playing the main featured/advertised content of 1/3 of the game?

Roaming is for gankers. Not a ganker type. Sorry. Don’t have the build/armor set up for it and no desire to do it either.

I play all aspects of gw 2 and have since beta. But ur not gonna force me to pvp or pve just cuz ur on wvw and in squad and u don’t want me to be there. That’s a violation of COC/TOS. U cant force me into pve or another game. sorry

Jumpin Lumpix.6108:

Lord Trejgon.2809:

Jumpin Lumpix.6108:

For wvw I have 4 characters all in full ascended, fully infused and I use the expensive foods and utilities. I run meta builds from metabattle and a few I modified from the meta slightly.

wait a moment…..

aren’t you the same guy that few days ago claimed that sPvP builds with condi cleases slapped on rocks for roaming?

at this point I’d liek to ask from which section of metabattle your “meta builds” are.

as fro blasting fields – they still do when it makes sense – but to actualy see this kind of behaviour you’d need to be, ya know in organised group with voice comms – because command to blast fields goes there – you can’t realistically relay it fast enought via text chat….

yah roamers use OP builds that are broken, they are basically spvp builds that are off the rails because they dont have to worry about holding a point. They use stats that are banned in spvp, and skills that would be useless in spvp but are useful in open world where there is no objective, other then to survive for ever and reset the fight when they please.

The section i get my builds from on metabattle is the wvw section.

Back to the topic, believe it or not even w/out voicecoms i can see the commanders health and i also have played in zergs quite a lot so I have a good feel for how the battle is going to go, and i can also see the fields that are going down so i can emulate them with my own fields and blast them as well, without being on TS. Aside from that I can and have got on teamspeak whenever I feel like it, so thats not really an issue. The point is that if people arent let into squads for whatever reason, they should have the same benefits of being in a squad, or anet should just get rid of squads entirely for wvw.

The way the system is based, its going to lead to a lot of people being excluded for (insert reason here). Honest, I get a lot of PM’s daily from PvEr’s who read my threads about excluding from squads in general, and they are really upset, and have experienced the same thing. They cant participate in squads for a myriad of reasons and they want to play wvw, but don’t feel like they are part of the team due to wvw vets requiring everyone to conform. They say they very much want to play but feel constantly excluded, which is just plain wrong. Id say anet has a larger problem on their hands then they think.

So this issue doesn’t just affect me sorry to say. Ive talked to quite a few pvers who simply give up on wvw and refuse to go into it SPECIFICALLY because of this issue. So the ball is really in the wvw communities court, and they say they want new players on one hand and then on the other try to exclude players at every turn, as does the games mechanics which rewards those not in squad with less.

I think I need to share this post with my guildmates, this amount of good laught is too much for me to just keep it to myself

I think our commanders will have especially good laught at the fields part XD

PS. if you tag around an organized zerg without beign plugged in to their voice you will be to busy trying to follow the commander and trying to figure out what he is intending to do next, and there is no way for you to actually see those fields in all the visual clutter asisting big clashes – not to mention to actually be able to tell them apart and drop another proper one to not screw people out by coverign their field with different one [although tandoms tagging around with zergs droppign random fields in random moments could be a reason why commanders are using those combos less than they used to in the past]

PPS. you do not need to be able to actually talk on those voice comms – just to be able to hear what commander is saying is all you need so argument about people being “exclusive” just to “few chosen ones” basing on TS requirement is unfair and untrue – and if you can’t afford having ts running in so you can hear commander then I’d say that it’s just zerging that is not for you – but hey there is still plenty of roles on the field you can perform without participating in organised zergs [also there are plenty of open squads organised specially for amassing “lone” people (at least on my server link) – sure efficiency of those will be much lower then properly organised groups, but it’s not like they didn’t exist]

PPPS. as for taggign and squads – last time I checked there was no system in place to prioritise any squads over anyone else when “tagging” enemies for loot is involved – you’ve hit the guy enought, you are eligible for exp and loot.

Why don’t get a TAG and run your own grp? that way you can see what the commanders are dealing with.

@Eater of Peeps
Oh, I see… they have to play with you, even if they don’t want to, because you think you’re being bullied if they’re allowed to choose not to. But it’s not bullying to exclude you by blocking you, everyone should have to do it so you can force them to play with you, and that’s more reasonable to you than solving the problem on your own? Yeah, that makes tons of sense.

Man, you’re just confirming the impression that people are choosing not to play with you because of your general attitude and sense of entitlement.

People don’t unanimously exclude quiet players from all squads in a server. Even people who don’t know how to play, build, contribute, etc. manage to find their way into some squads. Not joining TS is only a problem for some squads, and for a reason, but there are plenty who don’t require it. So that particular claim, that you’re being shut out of all squads because of it, is nonsense.

And nobody is forcing you to not play wvw. As you’ve already pointed out, you’re able to play the game even though people aren’t letting you into their squads. You also have the opportunity to party up with all of these people supposedly sending you PMs of support, and you can roam too, though you’re choosing not to.

Similarly, these other people can choose to not play with you in their squads, to not be forced to block you (along with everyone else in squad), etc.

Lord Trejgon.2809:

I think I need to share this post with my guildmates, this amount of good laught is too much for me to just keep it to myself

I think our commanders will have especially good laught at the fields part XD

PS. if you tag around an organized zerg without beign plugged in to their voice you will be to busy trying to follow the commander and trying to figure out what he is intending to do next, and there is no way for you to actually see those fields in all the visual clutter asisting big clashes – not to mention to actually be able to tell them apart and drop another proper one to not screw people out by coverign their field with different one [although tandoms tagging around with zergs droppign random fields in random moments could be a reason why commanders are using those combos less than they used to in the past]

PPS. you do not need to be able to actually talk on those voice comms – just to be able to hear what commander is saying is all you need so argument about people being “exclusive” just to “few chosen ones” basing on TS requirement is unfair and untrue – and if you can’t afford having ts running in so you can hear commander then I’d say that it’s just zerging that is not for you – but hey there is still plenty of roles on the field you can perform without participating in organised zergs [also there are plenty of open squads organised specially for amassing “lone” people (at least on my server link) – sure efficiency of those will be much lower then properly organised groups, but it’s not like they didn’t exist]

PPPS. as for taggign and squads – last time I checked there was no system in place to prioritise any squads over anyone else when “tagging” enemies for loot is involved – you’ve hit the guy enought, you are eligible for exp and loot.

well yah your showing that you actively exclude others, simply because you can for whatever reason you want, in a game mode which requires cooperative play. Seem like a valid issue that anet would want to look into. And its not like im telling these players to message me all these horror stories about bullying and exclusion in wvw from commanders, they come to me after reading threads like this.

I can see by your flippant attitude that you basically think its funny and that you support it. Id say anet needs to make it so that being in a squad gives no benefit over being outside of a squad, and this post is proof enough of that. As a veteran player myself, make no mistake it would be extremly simple for me to “fit in” to your zerg, do what you say, log into TS, play the game the way you want me to play it. But i don’t want too, can you blame me, why would I want to conform to anything that even remotely resembles what you want? Now imagine if i wasn’t as skilled, that would be enough to make me quit the game mode entirely, which is what many do. Yet you guys ask for and wish for new players, which is baffling given this behavior.

wvw is a game mode which primarily relies on zerg/squad based play, and then anet gives commanders full control to whatever they want as they see fit, which also includes the bullying and exclusion of others and then they decide to make being out of a squad a detriment. This behavior is not surprising, what is surprising is that in order to enjoy the game mode properly, you have to conform and put up with others behavior. I really hope anet changes squad mechanics in wvw to make them not so impactful to successful wvw play.

The only bullying going on here is by those trying to get Anet to force players into allowing caustic people to play with them.

Seems like most of these excluded players have a history of being difficult, trolls, or otherwise confounding players. They are being excluded for a reason.

It’s every squad/group’s prerogative to choose who they group with. Period.

Jumpin Lumpix.6108:

[snip for savign character count]

well yah your showing that you actively exclude others, simply because you can for whatever reason you want, in a game mode which requires cooperative play. Seem like a valid issue that anet would want to look into. And its not like im telling these players to message me all these horror stories about bullying and exclusion in wvw from commanders, they come to me after reading threads like this.

I can see by your flippant attitude that you basically think its funny and that you support it. Id say anet needs to make it so that being in a squad gives no benefit over being outside of a squad, and this post is proof enough of that. As a veteran player myself, make no mistake it would be extremly simple for me to “fit in” to your zerg, do what you say, log into TS, play the game the way you want me to play it. But i don’t want too, can you blame me, why would I want to conform to anything that even remotely resembles what you want? Now imagine if i wasn’t as skilled, that would be enough to make me quit the game mode entirely, which is what many do. Yet you guys ask for and wish for new players, which is baffling given this behavior.

wvw is a game mode which primarily relies on zerg/squad based play, and then anet gives commanders full control to whatever they want as they see fit, which also includes the bullying and exclusion of others and then they decide to make being out of a squad a detriment. This behavior is not surprising, what is surprising is that in order to enjoy the game mode properly, you have to conform and put up with others behavior. I really hope anet changes squad mechanics in wvw to make them not so impactful to successful wvw play.

if my post proofs to you that I exclude people from “my squads” [newsflash I don;t run squads mysalf due to not having spare gold for tag, tiny detail], then this long post of yours here proofs that you either do not bother to read posst you are responding or have issue with comprehesive reading.

as for “flippant attitude” – in this specific case it comes from the fact that you are throwing around claims that will sound stupid to everyone who played any form of organised WvW ever.

I didn’t say that there is no benefits of being in squad, I said there is no mechanics prioritising any squad when LOOT is concerned which was your little thing in this thread – no there is no hidden function in the game used to ensure squad member gets more loot than anyone else – you tag it hard enought, you get your loot roll – as simpel as that.

“zerg” clashes while may seem simple from the outside requires a very high level of coordination when it’s 50+ people per side involved – one wrong move can kill you and if you die, you are likely to rally a healthy chunk of enemies which is detrimental to everyones effort in the area – and this is why being able to at least listen to voice comms is so important in thos organised groups – it isn’t “my zerg game style” it isn’t “anyone’s else” playstyle it is what most of participant agreed upon being most effective – and it may not fit everyone – but then again those zergs are not the only key features of WvW gameplay – you still have alot room for variety in roaming, scouting, havoc groups – which part of my previous post you have either missed or are denyign yourself aknowledgement of them for whatever reason…

also sure you can play however you want – but if you are in a group of 50 and you are the only one in that group who dislikes the type of playstyle the rest of 49 agreed upon you cannot blame them for not wanting you in this specific group.

ah also – open zergs with NO requirement to join are still a thing and still quite good for WvW effort in absence of organised groups which again defeats your claim.

also

if there is any picture coming from your overal posts on the WvW things it would be that you’ve tried roaming, got yourself killed repeatedly [your long story on how roamers are bullies], then decided to stick to the first bigger group inside but denied to adjust to the rules of that specific group which ended up in you being kicked out of a group and now you feel excluded from “fun” and do all those elaborate posts how to “fix” the game for no one to ever dare to compromise your “fun” again

PS. if you check up my post history, you’ll notice I have never claimed WvW being in need of more players and you will also notice few posts laughting at guys who are shifting from bashing “PvE players in WvW” to “WvW is dying not nuff players” back and forth, but hey I disagreed with you laughted at your claim of being super-pro player – so I totally must be one of them right? :P

PPS. there is also nothing wrong about not being a super-pro – if guild I mentioned above was recruiting only from “super-pros” it would be prolly dead so far and I would deffo not be a member of it

Jumpin Lumpix.6108:

well yah your showing that you actively exclude others, simply because you can for whatever reason you want, in a game mode which requires cooperative play. Seem like a valid issue that anet would want to look into. And its not like im telling these players to message me all these horror stories about bullying and exclusion in wvw from commanders, they come to me after reading threads like this.

I can see by your flippant attitude that you basically think its funny and that you support it. Id say anet needs to make it so that being in a squad gives no benefit over being outside of a squad, and this post is proof enough of that. As a veteran player myself, make no mistake it would be extremly simple for me to “fit in” to your zerg, do what you say, log into TS, play the game the way you want me to play it. But i don’t want too, can you blame me, why would I want to conform to anything that even remotely resembles what you want? Now imagine if i wasn’t as skilled, that would be enough to make me quit the game mode entirely, which is what many do. Yet you guys ask for and wish for new players, which is baffling given this behavior.

wvw is a game mode which primarily relies on zerg/squad based play, and then anet gives commanders full control to whatever they want as they see fit, which also includes the bullying and exclusion of others and then they decide to make being out of a squad a detriment. This behavior is not surprising, what is surprising is that in order to enjoy the game mode properly, you have to conform and put up with others behavior. I really hope anet changes squad mechanics in wvw to make them not so impactful to successful wvw play.

So if you aren’t in a squad then you’re completely incapable of playing wvw? That simply isn’t the case. This is about you wanting more loot and wxp, which is inherently fine, up until the point at which you want to force others to allow you to join them against their wishes. You do NOT need a squad to have successful wvw play.

You could solve your perceived problem by tagging up and running your own squad.

If these supposed players are messaging you all kinds of horror stories regarding exclusion they should post on the wvw forums, otherwise saying that you get PMs means nothing.

Eater of Peeps what class/build do you play?

It gets annoying following a zerg, playing better then normal (because you have no buffs from allies really) killing enemies and getting 1-2 wxp and no drops

Working as intended feature. From my memory, enemies who are killed multiples times in a short time frame are worth less WvW XP & result in little to no loot. This is to stop players abusing game mechanics (example: having a friend repeatedly feed themselves to you near a spawn point).

Anet needs to update tagging, specifically in wvw so that it detects if you are around other ally players (in or out of the same squad) and if you tag an enemy and any of your ALLIES tag an enemy, you get full wxp/loot tagging credit

While I don’t fully understand whether you meant a full on passive gameplay “around other players” or if you meant tagging an enemy and other players tag that enemy you get WvW XP… hence stating that – it’s already in the game. If I tag an enemy player and an ally tags and KILLS it then I get credit, too. I think an alternative approach in terms of ACTIVE gameplay; support may be a more welcome approach.

Examples are as follows under the condition the ally player you supported kills an enemy regardless whether or not you tagged their defeated enemy:

• Providing more than 2-3 boons on that player
• Healing over X amount on that player
• Providing a unique trait buff (e.g; Strength In Numbers) for longer than ~15 seconds

Do you think this would be a welcome idea?

“Tagging Mechanics”?

OP is everything just a modified loot fest for you based on all your previous posts?

WvW does not, and hopefully, never will adhere to PVE gameplay. Please enjoy it for what it is and what it has been for 5 years rather then demanding easy loot and rewards.

Thank you.

Nothing will change. Tagging mechanics won’t change (not at this stage in the game), nor will any amends be made to impose people into squads when others don’t want someone there. Perhaps squads will get removed, but that certainly won’t solve the OP’s issue. Guilds/Groups will still just organize parties on TS/Discord and exclude people anyway.

My guess is the people wanting this type of change are either running Ranger/Druids, Thieves, or Engi’s. All are fairly ineffective when it comes large scale play, simple as that. Whatever any class/build does at peak efficiency, another class can do better with half the work while providing more support.

Case and point, the argument of “well the squad is not full” doesn’t matter when they can simply switch to another class that provides more use. Nobody has the right to tell you what class to play, but they certainly have the right to exclude people playing on classes/builds that provide no support.

Commanders that choose to run on TS, need their group in TS. They can’t have a group of 50 when 25 run one way during a fight while the other 25 run the other way. You can think your one of the best WvW’ers or PvP’ers around and not be in TS; but when the commander makes a bait and switch call and you go charging in, your a liability; squad or no squad.

IF a commander whats to tag up and run with his guild, or his friends, you should not automatically be invited to squad. If the commander wants to run a squad of people with ts, it is his choice. You do not and should not get a say, either accept the rules set before you, or don’t join the squad, simple.

For serious and productive discussion on tagging and rewarding mechanics, come to this thread instead.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/wuv/Discussion-On-How-Reward-System-Works/first#post6695214

This topic is meaningless, outside the squad you get more xp and loot, there is a reduction of XP when you kill in a group. The real “exploit” is to follow a zerg and not get into the squad, using a tankier build. I do not do this straightforwardly for the sake of honesty, but in practice, commanders who do not put you in the squad are doing you a good if all u want is exp/loot.

The only problem I see from the “exclusive squad” concept is that they ruin the server at long term, by pushing away the pugs and rookies. These squads also hardly make raid more than 2 hours.

The pugmanders are the ones who actually raise the servers and are the gateway to new players. It is also usually those who spend more than 4 hours commanding.

This thread again?

Being part of a guild WvW squad isn’t a right. It’s not a guaranteed game feature. It’s something organized by a guild, and it’s the drivers call how they want to organize it.

When I run open, it’s easy to tell who is in ts or discord and who isn’t. WvW is a team game. If you don’t want to play by the team’s rules, the team has a right to tell you you can’t join them. It’s that simple.

To our deaf player, I’ve agreed with you before that requiring a deaf player to join ts is silly. You’d be better off finding a guild that is able to work with you.

But no one is entitled to join a guild squad. No one is entitled to join a pugmander’s squad, either. It’s the commanders call. They are taking on the responsibility for that squad. They get to make that choice. If I’m willing to squad kick guildies who aren’t on tag and paying attention, why on earth would I treat non guildies any differently?

It’s that simple.

Before HoT, I might have seen this with a problem with some classes that lacked good ways of hitting multiple targets or even speed problems reaching a zerg.

After HoT I really don’t see any excuse why you can’t find a way to hit people in a zerg while standing behind one of your own.

Unless you’re some kind of ranger that pews pews in a wall of reflect, that is.

You can lead a horse to water….

Sarika.3756:

requiring a dead player to join ts is silly.

I’d have to second that one, autocorrect or not

Jumpin Lumpix.6108:

pretty funny you seem to all really dislike people who play for rewards and are willing to admit it, when 99% of the game is the prestige of gaining new shinies, which you all collectively work for and strive for. Seems very hypocritical to me.

I play this game to kill other players and hopefully get salty whispers.

HazyDaisy.4107:

Sarika.3756:

requiring a dead player to join ts is silly.

I’d have to second that one, autocorrect or not

Oops! Fixed!

This is why kids should not get participation trophies. They always think they are entitled to something.

I feel like this is an interesting discussion on squads and servers in general

but….

also a completely dead horse

VaaCrow.3076:

IF a commander whats to tag up and run with his guild, or his friends, you should not automatically be invited to squad. If the commander wants to run a squad of people with ts, it is his choice. You do not and should not get a say, either accept the rules set before you, or don’t join the squad, simple.

This is the point. Commanders are not easy to come by, good ones anyway. Anyone willing to pop a tag and lead should always be free to do so as they please. Like someone else said, try doing it yourself, don’t complain about those that are making the effort.

I will admit I don’t like it when I can’t join a squad but I understand and respect the commanders decision to lock their squad.

As far as tagging mechanics go I really haven’t seen any solid evidence presented here that being in or out of a squad (other than not getting the buffs of the squad) makes any difference to the credit given for kills. I have a friend who always runs as a solo ele and he gets TONS of bags and WxP, way more than I do even when I run just in a party with him. He doesn’t need to be in the squad to reap the benefits, he just runs along with them nibbling at the edges of the enemy zerg. I run condi and if stuff dies to fast my conditions don’t have time to do enough damage to get credit.

sounds like a community problem. As a commander I personally let anyone in my squad ( as do the majority of comms on my server provided they are not doing a closed/guild raid). And the only way i’m kicking you is if your offline, on another map and not scouting for a really really long time (cause well i’m commanding and don’t have time to worry about that). Or you’ve constantly been no where near my tag, so your doing nothing but throwing my sup count off by being in squad. I personally do not require ts, although I would appreciate it if you join. Some of our currently linked servers comms don’t even use ts at all. And another one has their own ts, which although I haven’t joined this time around, I’ve never been denied entry to a squad because of it. Nor would I deny any of them entry to mine because they refused to use ts.

fieraviolet.3160:

sounds like a community problem. As a commander I personally let anyone in my squad ( as do the majority of comms on my server provided they are not doing a closed/guild raid). And the only way i’m kicking you is if your offline, on another map and not scouting for a really really long time (cause well i’m commanding and don’t have time to worry about that). Or you’ve constantly been no where near my tag, so your doing nothing but throwing my sup count off by being in squad. I personally do not require ts, although I would appreciate it if you join. Some of our currently linked servers comms don’t even use ts at all. And another one has their own ts, which although I haven’t joined this time around, I’ve never been denied entry to a squad because of it. Nor would I deny any of them entry to mine because they refused to use ts.

Sounds like the perfect place for you: @Jumpin Lumpix.6108 and @Eater of Peeps.9062. Transfer to that server and make a new start.

A change in tagging mechanics wouldn’t be a bad thing. It was done in PvE back when Penet/Shelt and Plinx was a big thing. People weren’t getting credit for loot, especially those not in parties. A similar change to normalize the damage contribution to tag for all allies, in or out of squad doesn’t seem unreasonable. Would normalize for two or more squads fighting together too. Unless my understanding of this is off – it has been a long time since tagging issues on my ranger in Orr.