Guild Wars 2

Anyone noticed, whenever a downed ele gets up in the open field (ie out of range of their ‘get out of jail free’ tower entrance), EVERYONE will make kitten sure that ele dies. You should NOT be able to get up and run off when you are downed.

Same with downed thiefs- people go out of their way to make sure you end up very dead, but not to the same extent as eles. You should NOT be able to stealth when you are downed.

Warrior gets up and runs off on vengeance- no one cares, as he is dead already.

I wish my ranger could get up and run off when downed, but then that would make a mockery of downing someone in the first place..oh wait…some people can!

Ele and thief skills need nerfing for wvw to level the playing field.

Thief teleport is fine as it can not use portals. I’d just change portals to be unusable while using a downed skill.

Victory.2879:

You should NOT be able to stealth when you are downed.

The thief #3 downed skill is an entire 2 second stealth on a 20 second CD and is laughably easy to counter.

I’ll never understand why for most skills everyone wants the professions to have different approaches and mechanics but equal power levels, whereas with the downed skills the call is for everything to be homogenized so everyone has similar skills.

Ele after vapor form = free stomp
Thief after stealth = propably a free stomp, most thieves use blink first/during stealth

Warrior as you say is already dead.
Simple logic.

As to question of ele having get out of jailcard handy near tower…well that will propably be fixed with not being able to go through gates.
Thieves are just annoying, just like mesmers, but won´t get nerfed imho.

Only ele mist form in downed is rather broken.I mean the cd is too short making it impossible to stomp an ele before he runs inside a tower.A warrior has the same mechanic only u need to counter 2 stomps timewise to be able yo get up and run,yet ppl still get their kill.With ele is impossible to kill one inside a tower,impossible to stomp or kill if near a tower.Might seem an insignificant detail but it is huge repaircost wise and not to mention the defensive power with all that aoe and impossibility to kill them.

Victory.2879:

Anyone noticed, whenever a downed ele gets up in the open field (ie out of range of their ‘get out of jail free’ tower entrance), EVERYONE will make kitten sure that ele dies. You should NOT be able to get up and run off when you are downed.

Same with downed thiefs- people go out of their way to make sure you end up very dead, but not to the same extent as eles. You should NOT be able to stealth when you are downed.

Warrior gets up and runs off on vengeance- no one cares, as he is dead already.

I wish my ranger could get up and run off when downed, but then that would make a mockery of downing someone in the first place..oh wait…some people can!

Ele and thief skills need nerfing for wvw to level the playing field.

Indeed, ele’s on mist form or what is called can be quite annoying when they reach the wall cover and heal inside keep, we dont want more defenders nearby nuking from the above.

Welll ranger as some decent downed skills to, as thunderclap or lick wounds.

Ranger downed skills are rubbish unless you are in the water. Thunderclap is a one time interupt that won’t save you for more than a second, and lick wounds takes so long to activate that people could go off and make a coffee and come back and kill you and you’ll still be downed in the same spot.

My main bugbear is the ele, hopefully they will stop them going through gates- will be REALLY funny to watch the first time one tries and bumps off back into the damage;-)

Downed, now what?

Ele: I’ll just walk through that portal, thank you
Thief: Glad I dropped shadow refuge upfront, or I’d be dps’ed down in seconds
Necromancer: back in a sec guys ^^
Warrior: please let only one stomp me… a few more seconds… okay, now I gotta kill something dies, then dies again 2 seconds after respawning
Guardian: please please let them only try to stomp me once, and all at the same time… please?
Engineer: let’s pull someone towards me, where he can’t do anything… oh, wait…
Mesmer: Weee teleporter! Now where do we set those coordinates…
Ranger: opens map

Still complaining about ele downed state? Geesh. Who cares really, they have to cookie cutter build to be viable and are in the lowest health pool. And they still arent anything more than annoying to good players.

The either bunker and do garbage damage or glass cannon and get two shot. Nothing really in between.

The ele ability to escape through portals is certainly annoying, but every class has things that other classes don’t. If we nerfed everyone to be exactly even then we’d just have 1 class that everyone has to play, and how boring would that be?

The thief downed abilities are not that great since they got nerfed, all they do is delay the inevitable by a few seconds at best.

Anyway, you’re a ranger talking about ‘levelling the playing field’. How about we all get 1500 range on our ranged weapons like you do? Give me 1500 range on my thief’s shortbow, and then I’ll consider giving up my downed abilities. See how silly this argument is?

Tenshi.3598:

Downed, now what?

Ele: I’ll just walk through that portal, thank you
Thief: Glad I dropped shadow refuge upfront, or I’d be dps’ed down in seconds
Necromancer: back in a sec guys ^^
Warrior: please let only one stomp me… a few more seconds… okay, now I gotta kill something dies, then dies again 2 seconds after respawning
Guardian: please please let them only try to stomp me once, and all at the same time… please?
Engineer: let’s pull someone towards me, where he can’t do anything… oh, wait…
Mesmer: Weee teleporter! Now where do we set those coordinates…
Ranger: opens map

so true.. that is exactly how my ranger feels

Anyone with half a brain can stop me (as the Ele in Vapour Form) from entering the portal, if you don’t and I get there safely I only get to play that card once more without waiting for my death count to drop off as the third time I enter vapour form I’m dead.

Away from the mystic haven of safety in 90% of other situations that short little jog in Vapour Form is gonna result in a stomp anyway. Doesn’t even drop aggro in PVE and if you’re not running in a zerg chances are good that you won’t get revived mid-battle, if you are running with a zerg who gives a toss anyway as things break down to Res Wars 2 on all three sides of the fence.

To the OP and any other rangers. In case you never realized it, you can use your pet skills when downed. This is why i love my grey wolf and that’s all i say about it. I get out of downed state quite often as a ranger because of this.

The only issue I have with elementalists mist thingy is that it resets health and removes conditions, to where it was when they were first downed. I believe this to be a bug. I could care less if they go through a portal.

MarzAttakz.9608:

Anyone with half a brain can stop me (as the Ele in Vapour Form) from entering the portal

And by that you mean ‘any guardian with half a brain’, right? What exactly can any other classes do about it?

Puddin Cheeks.8539:

To the OP and any other rangers. In case you never realized it, you can use your pet skills when downed. This is why i love my grey wolf and that’s all i say about it. I get out of downed state quite often as a ranger because of this.

using your pet to kill a zero hitpoint mosquito is just kinda cheap
using your pet to pull a deer into the enemy zerg thats better but still

the ele vapor form in downed state does not need a nerf, neither does going in a portal via vapor. it’s part of the game learn to counter it. besides if ur facing a really good ele he/she would be out of there before u even get close to downing them. Oh no I’m low on health RTL , Teleport …. see ya!

Victory.2879:

You should NOT be able to stealth when you are downed.

… You pretty much can’t, though?

I mean, Smoke Bomb puts you into stealth for, like, 1 second. Which is about how long you spent casting it. It does stop a stomp if you time it right, but the cooldown is such that it’s only good against people who dawdle on stomping you (if an enemy downs you in melee and goes for a stomp right away, then you port perfectly at the last minute, he can still run up to you and stomp a second time before you have a Smoke Bomb ready).

Thieves who put stealth on themselves right before they go down… enh, that’s good play (or good luck). But you can still find them pretty trivially by looking for the “Finish Them!” and they melt to a few auto-attacks. It’s not at all like trying to find a stealthy thief who can actually move around.

You people realize you can cc (try stunning/rooting) an ele in vapor form right? An ele goes down you know Vapor form is coming. Get that cc ready…

Vapor form (downed state) is NOT Mist form (cantrip).

I really don’t want to call this a l2p issue but….

kreese.9461:

Puddin Cheeks.8539:

To the OP and any other rangers. In case you never realized it, you can use your pet skills when downed. This is why i love my grey wolf and that’s all i say about it. I get out of downed state quite often as a ranger because of this.

using your pet to kill a zero hitpoint mosquito is just kinda cheap
using your pet to pull a deer into the enemy zerg thats better but still

That isnt what i use the pet for but some people do that.

As an elementalist I can testify to that immobilize working very well. Been trapped a bunch by it. But really a staff ele never leaves the wall, and a d/d elementalist can quite easily get himself too far away from the door to vapor back in.

It does feel a tad dirty when it works out however. On the other hand I take chances I probably wouldnt and get myself downed/killed more often because of it, which is fun.

When you get your head around the fact that “downing” is not death then you’ll find all of this makes a lot of sense.

I think its mainly because most players already feel Thief and Ele are already OP (please this is not a debate on whether they are or not) so when they have downed states like they do players are even more furious that they can escape (not so much for thieves) once you do manage to kill them.

Their downed staes are not that bad, I agree that the downed mist form should not allow an ele to enter a keep/tower but other then that, I truly feel people just feel robbed in general by these two classes. When they survive after you did manage to kill them its just salt in the wounds for most.

I’ve been saying this since I first watched a downed ele jump into the water and swim away. Its really ridiculous. I have an easier time getting people downed then I do actually killing them, and as a ranger, I have like zero opportunity to ever get away and live when I’m downed…unless im underwater I guess, and I’m pretty sure lick wounds is bugged.

Sunspots.9861:

I’ve been saying this since I first watched a downed ele jump into the water and swim away. Its really ridiculous. I have an easier time getting people downed then I do actually killing them, and as a ranger, I have like zero opportunity to ever get away and live when I’m downed…unless im underwater I guess, and I’m pretty sure lick wounds is bugged.

and as an ele, I have no chance of my pet healing me. but hey that’s the advantage of being a ranger. just because you can’t do it does not mean it should be removed. learn to counter, k .

Well in his defense, a pet healing him is not going to prevent a stomp, mist forming into a tower/keep/water is going to prevent your stomp. That is the only thing I can see wrong with the ele downed state, not the mist form itself, just they availability to make taking down an ele pointless. Although if there is no tower/keep/water the ele downed state has no real benefit other then prolonging the stomp.

6 of one, half a dozen of the other.

no but he knows I’m an ele, obviously knows I’m going to vapor…. soo root me yo! easy right?

Good point, but not all classes can root. Either way I’m not screaming nerf Ele down state. Just pointing out that there is a couple of annoying flaws with it. However that just my opinion and does not make it more valid then yours.

Nuzt.7894:

Well in his defense, a pet healing him is not going to prevent a stomp,

So i managed to catch what I was telling you guys about on fraps.
skip to the 1:32 mark if you just want to see how much i loved my pets when I’m in downed state.
http://youtu.be/o28NTwa86QQ

Thief cooldowns suck. It’s like COOL wait 20s so I can stealth for 2s, but then everything aggros you again.

The key to stopping ele’s is long immobilizes. D/D ele thinks he’s hot stuff? Let him rush in, throw down a few of his escapes and then hit him with a long immob and watch him melt. Same with downed ones.

Get more people to run longer immobilizes and Ele’s become easy to deal with.,

I wish there were some way to get stats on this. As an d/d ele I bet I make it inside < 5% of the time. It’s either too far away, I’m not anywhere near a portal or I get immobilized. When I am close enough it feels like 75% of the time I make it back in from downed state, but really the number of times I’m near enough to a portal makes me not even use it. I vapor 10 feet away and the enemy just moved 10 feet and stomps me. Now when I’m downed I don’t even bother with downed state skills. Skill 1 is not going to do anything, 2 is only useful very near a portal, 3 never fires, 4 isn’t going to work unless I’m no where near an enemy. I mainly just pull up the map and wait for the stomp.

If I’m near a gate, yes I’ll try and mistform back inside, if the attackers didn’t cc me. if they are smart they see me go down and have their cc ready. I die plenty of times due to that. (although you prolly only remember the times I got away). But I only actually make it safely inside less than half the time. It’s a very risky thing, but again attackers will only remember the times I got away, so it “feels” way more prevalent than it really is.

But out in the field if I go downed, I don’t even bother mistforming as it just means I take 2x downed penalty. It’s not really long enough to get back to my lines, and I still take fall damage, can be cc’d, and take the downed penalty each time. It’s not like any of our other downed abilities are worth using. (and 9/10 stealthed thief stomps me anyways, That’s my selection bias speaking)

The Goat.1940:

no but he knows I’m an ele, obviously knows I’m going to vapor…. soo root me yo! easy right?

Because its not like they would’ve had to blow their immobilizes already to down an ele in the first place. I mean, it’s not like eles are ridiculously mobile or anything…

Yes please give us more health and Defense then you can take away our mist form.
That way I won’t have to go down and get back safely to the tower without downing so kittenty fast because have the LOWEST def and LOWEST health pool and you won’t have to complain about us going into tower on down all the time.

I honestly don’t think it has anything to do with the downed states that make people beeline for them.

I think it has more to do with the simple fact that when played well and speced well they are hard to get down. So when they go down you want them to stay down.

But being the troll I am I guess, knowing so many people seem to have a huge problem with it, even if I can easily walk though the gate on my ele. From time to time will just stop and the door and let people down me, so i can float around their feet and go Inside

Did you ever think it might be there by design?

If they remove Elementalists ability to use portals in Vapor Form, they have to remove Mesmers ability to pull people off walls with Into the Void. Why? Elementalists are the ONLY players that can defend a keep in a pinch against a group of mesmers, because they are the only ones that can survive getting pulled off the wall and into the crowd below.

ANet blatantly stated they designed each class to have unique things it can do in WvW that nobody else can do.

Thieves can infiltrate a keep and scout without detection, mesmers can portal and remove defenders, guardians can make siege nigh invincible, Rangers can snipe and kite, Necros can completely halt kiting and fleeing, Warriors and Engineers… kind of get screwed, and Eles can defend keeps without backup . If you want to take away the Ele’s niche, you have to take away everyone else’s too.

Necros should on theory have the best downed skills in the game, since they deal with death all the time. But they end up having the worst.

If I have to Vapour Form (the DOWNED skill, not the utility Mist Form), then I’ve stuffed up since I shouldn’t have been downed in the first place, especially near a portal. People who jump headfirst, try to take on the army, do nothing, get downed and Vapour Form into a portal are only hurting their team.

Though Vapour Forming on the offence to a safer distance to be rezzed can be a lifesaver which the other mobile classes can do in some way…. note the ones with the lower health :P Couldn’t care less about Vapour Form anyway since I shouldn’t be in the position to use it on a regular basis. Not doing a good job defending in that case :P

Setis.4390:

The Goat.1940:

no but he knows I’m an ele, obviously knows I’m going to vapor…. soo root me yo! easy right?

Because its not like they would’ve had to blow their immobilizes already to down an ele in the first place. I mean, it’s not like eles are ridiculously mobile or anything…

really c’mon now rangers don’t have to immobilize to down an ele.

Conncept.7638:

Elementalists … are the only ones that can survive getting pulled off the wall and into the crowd below.

That isn’t true. I get that you’re trying to make a case for a balance dynamic here, but elementalists are far from the only profession able to recover from being pulled off a wall.

Hmm hope ranger gets a new down skill call “pet medic”
“Pet will drag you for x distance and heal your injury for x sec”

You got to be kidding…

Thief downed skills may prolong my inevitable death by another 2-3 secs. Hardly a call for a nerf…

Leogolas.6941:

Hmm hope ranger gets a new down skill call “pet medic”
“Pet will drag you for x distance and heal your injury for x sec”

That actually sounds super cool.

Imobilize Ele when he get in downed state so he wont able to move in mist form as well.

Different scenario: Ranger gets pulled off wall, zerg focuses Ranger, ok no prob pop SoS or Protect Me! Assuming you have those in utilities. Ranger thinks he is safe with 6s of no damage. Ranger gets rooted ok pop SoR once again assuming you have it on your bar, which you probably don’t, this is also assuming you don’t get stunned which is unlikely because you’re getting focused by a Zerg although this could be helped if you have traits or pop RaO, but once again this is assuming you have all of this in your build. Ranger breaks first root only to be rooted once again, watches pet die instantly from Protect Me!, watches health bar disappear, qq, it’s ok though the Ranger only has to wait like 6s for Lick Wounds to be available, miraculously Zerg doesn’t instantly burst down Ranger so he pops lick wounds, Lassie comes over and just stands there, well kitten.

I don’t really care though because A-net seems to be ok with rangers, eng, and necros being assclowns so it’s fine.

Mcrocha.3891:

Different scenario: Ranger gets pulled off wall, zerg focuses Ranger, ok no prob pop SoS or Protect Me! Assuming you have those in utilities. Ranger thinks he is safe with 6s of no damage. Ranger gets rooted ok pop SoR once again assuming you have it on your bar, which you probably don’t, this is also assuming you don’t get stunned which is unlikely because you’re getting focused by a Zerg although this could be helped if you have traits or pop RaO, but once again this is assuming you have all of this in your build. Ranger breaks first root only to be rooted once again, watches pet die instantly from Protect Me!, watches health bar disappear, qq, it’s ok though the Ranger only has to wait like 6s for Lick Wounds to be available, miraculously Zerg doesn’t instantly burst down Ranger so he pops lick wounds, Lassie comes over and just stands there, well kitten.

I don’t really care though because A-net seems to be ok with rangers, eng, and necros being assclowns so it’s fine.

If the zerg knows how to use root then the elementalist won’t escape either, really has nothing to do with profession at that point.

Two side notes to the remarks of an above poster. Mes isn’t the only class with a pull. Thieves can’t infiltrate keeps. Just some glaring points I felt should be addressed.

You guys do realize that you can get Rune of the Vampire if you’re tired of seeing elementalists do the mist form right? With six runes, it does the exact same thing as what the ele gets.

I think the point of this thread is that downed skills suck in general. They are an annoyance and rarely useful (except ele mist when defending a tower).

When I was learning to play my thief I’ve had many times when I would kill someone, only to have them down me while I was stomping on them. And depending on the class, I have even lost a few times because their downed ability just hit waaay harder than mine. Now you guys can understand why we thieves use Cloak and Dagger before we stomp. And as for the thief stealth while downed, just aoe us. And the thief teleport while downed is just a way to troll whoever killed me. I only use it to port when they are about to stomp just to annoy them. Neither of the thief owned skills are that useful or fun (in pvp atleast), just annoying.

Downed skills in pvp suck and slow down the pace of fighting. Downed state itself is good, it lets good teams get their own back up. But the skills are just annoying.