Guild Wars 2

With recent changes to wvw, it became clear that classes like guards/war/necro/eles/revs (basically those must have in squad) get advantage over other classes in wvw because they are allowed into squad and allowed to zerg in wvw which allows them to gain ranks/pips faster in wvw. Meanwhile rest of the classes get kicked/forced into roaming due to their class design which results in less rank/pip gains in wvw.
Since wvw community and devs deemed it as fair and logical system i propose that zerg classes (guards, eles and co.) gain less shards/rewards/pips in other game modes (pvp/pve) compared to other classes (engis/druids etc.) to make up for the reward difference.

Then just play one of those classes. ArenaNet set the incentive, they might have wished for this.

If nobody plays Thief or Ranger in WvW anymore, maybe ArenaNet changes the incentives, or they don’t care which classes are played in WvW. You as a player are not excluded, you choose to exclude yourself from these rewards if you play a class that doesn’t fit the mode.

There’s no reason to change rewards in other modes to make things “fair”. How fair would it be if people simply played Guardian in WvW and Engineers in PvP/PvE and gain max rewards from all modes?

I know players who switch classes from fractal to fractal and it’s quite common to pick the class that fits a raid best when you join. Nobody is excluded, you get 5 character slots and can get up to 64. And as long as no players are excluded, I don’t see an issue with exclusion. Some classes are better for WvW than others, same goes for raids, fractals, PvE, PvP.

Ignore what Faaris says, just play what you want to play and follow commanders with whatever profession you want. It’s not that hard.

It’s really only players that try to exclude players, but the game will always allow you to be there. Open world and WvW are free zones to play in, if anyone says you shouldn’t stand or do something in this public environment, ignore ( or block them) and continue as you are. I sure as hell wouldn’t let some WvWers tell me what to do.

You do not get less rewards for playing with a certain profession, it just maybe be harder or different to obtain them. Or be harder to be a part of an instanced group. But that’s about it, you can always make your own group if you really want to be in a squad.

In fact, if there’s any incentive in the game when players start saying “I don’t want Prof XYZ in my squad” is to make my own squad with only those allowed telling people to switch to those professions.

The majority of vocal players are overly sensitive about how the game should be played and forgot how to play the game for fun after years of mindless grinding and boredom of doing the same thing over and over.

you know, you can follow the commander and the zerg without being in the squad, right?

Cynz.9437:

With recent changes to wvw, it became clear that classes like guards/war/necro/eles/revs (basically those must have in squad) get advantage over other classes in wvw because they are allowed into squad and allowed to zerg in wvw which allows them to gain ranks/pips faster in wvw. Meanwhile rest of the classes get kicked/forced into roaming due to their class design which results in less rank/pip gains in wvw.
Since wvw community and devs deemed it as fair and logical system i propose that zerg classes (guards, eles and co.) gain less shards/rewards/pips in other game modes (pvp/pve) compared to other classes (engis/druids etc.) to make up for the reward difference.

How, exactly, can anyone prevent you from following the commander/zerg with just about any class or build? So what if you’re not in the squad? WvW is actually the one game mode where class discrimination matters the least. Ask just about any revenant who wants to dps in a raid, for instance.

FrizzFreston.5290:

Ignore what Faaris says, just play what you want to play and follow commanders with whatever profession you want. It’s not that hard.

It’s really only players that try to exclude players, but the game will always allow you to be there. Open world and WvW are free zones to play in, if anyone says you shouldn’t stand or do something in this public environment, ignore ( or block them) and continue as you are. I sure as hell wouldn’t let some WvWers tell me what to do.

Before you suggest ignoring what I wrote, maybe read both posts properly. Even OP doesn’t talk about player discrimination or exclusion, the topic is about class discrimination/exclusion. Players are always welcome, some classes aren’t. But that is like someone with a level 30 character who wants to participate in the Triple Trouble event. This player might say they don’t like high level characters and enjoy playing at around level 30 for some more time. Sorry, your level is excluded from this event. You can fix that by levelling up. Just like that players can create classes that fit the thing they want to do in the game.

You can try to join a raid with a Bearbow Ranger, but that is not a good fit for the thing you want to do. You can fix that by having another class that’s better suited for it. Starting your own LFG with that build is not a fix for the problem (especially since you will not get what you want with the group you will get). Hoping that ArenaNet makes your preferred build stronger is also not a viable siolution for you. The only thing I can think of that works definitely and in short order is building a character with a class that can be properly used for the thing you want to do.

Don’t look for external factors to solve your problems if you can fix them yourself. If you like to play Thief in WvW more than you like rewards, go for it. If you like rewards more, make your choice. If you choose to play thief, you exclude yourself from the bigger/faster rewards.

The difference by just following the commander and be in a squad is pretty big. You don’t get buffs/heals. When you die you don’t get rezzed. You are still helping, because you are eating the damage and with your sacrifice you help the zerg to survive longer and eventually be victorious. But you can’t get loot and you need to run every few mins to rejoin the zerg.
In the end only the most stubborn keep running with the jerks that hate you!

HF playing that way, if you are masochist…

If I tag along on a zerg, I usually get rezzed even if I’m not in the squad… Seems a pretty self-defeating thing to, ignoring non-squadded allies…
Buffs of course, will not prioritize someone outside squad, but you’ll still get some, in my experience.

Edit: I play a Ranger, usually LB/S

mazut.4296:

The difference by just following the commander and be in a squad is pretty big. You don’t get buffs/heals. When you die you don’t get rezzed. You are still helping, because you are eating the damage and with your sacrifice you help the zerg to survive longer and eventually be victorious. But you can’t get loot and you need to run every few mins to rejoin the zerg.
In the end only the most stubborn keep running with the jerks that hate you!

HF playing that way, if you are masochist…

^^basically this. There is also issue with tagging and getting credit for the tag. If you follow the zerg, you tend get less credit for the kills if any at all hence why in pve it is better to join farming group instead of just following them.

Sure, you can play other classes. But once again, it does not remove issue of certain classes being basically excluded from rewards in wvw or limited amount of rewards they can get compared to “meta” classes. Since it was deemed a fair system, it would make sense to introduce it in other game modes. You want to get more pips/rewards in pvp? Don’t play ele/guards. Same logic here.

You might want to check the way buffs and heals work. Squads and subgroups in them are to prioritize and sure, you’ll get less of these, but you will get some. Also I’ve never been left behind dead unless the zerg has been pushed away and going to res me would have other players risk getting killed themselves. That’s regardless if I’m in the zerg or not.

@OP:
You get the exact same amount of pips and rewardtrack progress if you are roaming. The only thing that matters is participation. And that is a nonissue as you get rank 6 for bassically doing random things like slaying dolyaks, taking various capturepoints (ruins, camps, etc.).
Taking rangers, thiefs etc. into zergfights can be a good decision. You just have a different job than the main zerg. Your goal is to take out the backline and not to fight the meele train. An enemy thief in your backline can be quite annoying as he can take down several backliners if he is ignored. Same for a small group of rangers. You can set a target in the backline and snipe it simulatanously to down it or atleast force it to retreat.

Faaris.8013:

Before you suggest ignoring what I wrote, maybe read both posts properly. Even OP doesn’t talk about player discrimination or exclusion, the topic is about class discrimination/exclusion. Players are always welcome, some classes aren’t. But that is like someone with a level 30 character who wants to participate in the Triple Trouble event. This player might say they don’t like high level characters and enjoy playing at around level 30 for some more time. Sorry, your level is excluded from this event. You can fix that by levelling up. Just like that players can create classes that fit the thing they want to do in the game.

You can try to join a raid with a Bearbow Ranger, but that is not a good fit for the thing you want to do. You can fix that by having another class that’s better suited for it. Starting your own LFG with that build is not a fix for the problem (especially since you will not get what you want with the group you will get). Hoping that ArenaNet makes your preferred build stronger is also not a viable siolution for you. The only thing I can think of that works definitely and in short order is building a character with a class that can be properly used for the thing you want to do.

Don’t look for external factors to solve your problems if you can fix them yourself. If you like to play Thief in WvW more than you like rewards, go for it. If you like rewards more, make your choice. If you choose to play thief, you exclude yourself from the bigger/faster rewards.

So we’re talking about profession discrimination, you provide examples of level requirements, build discrimination and WvW where everyone can walk around freely like I said, and get as much reward as anyone who is in a squad.

Okay.

Run rune of mercy and claim to be the commander’s bodyguard!

FrizzFreston.5290:

So we’re talking about profession discrimination, you provide examples of level requirements, build discrimination and WvW where everyone can walk around freely like I said, and get as much reward as anyone who is in a squad.

Okay.

But do you get full rewards when you just escort a squad? People here say you don’t get the same rewards as someone in the squad. I would agree that classes are discriminated against, I just don’t see it as a big deal because players can have multiple classes and pick from them when they play WvW.

I was in a squad as a condi scrapper for 1.5 hours this morning, running around with 15ish peeps protecting and capping back HBL from the nightly activities. Not even on TS. It was quite playable tbh. Had maxed pip tick within 10 minutes (capped a tower and a camp early on while we where 2 peeps). I wasnt kicked. Then again no one could kick me since I was tagging so jokes on them, ha!

The list of desirables are there for a good reason and they’re like the meat of the group. You can’t ask commanders to make do with salad when they can have more meat.

The ball is in Anets court, not the commander’s.

fredley.2354:

The list of desirables are there for a good reason and they’re like the meat of the group. You can’t ask commanders to make do with salad when they can have more meat.

The ball is in Anets court, not the commander’s.

That is why i am asking Anet to introduce same treatment to other game modes and not the commanders since the last rather resort to verbal abuse if you dare to join their squad.

Faaris.8013:

FrizzFreston.5290:

So we’re talking about profession discrimination, you provide examples of level requirements, build discrimination and WvW where everyone can walk around freely like I said, and get as much reward as anyone who is in a squad.

Okay.

But do you get full rewards when you just escort a squad? People here say you don’t get the same rewards as someone in the squad. I would agree that classes are discriminated against, I just don’t see it as a big deal because players can have multiple classes and pick from them when they play WvW.

Considering most rewards are from wvw reward tracks and pips. I dont think every person in a squad gets rewards from every single enemy they fight.

And even then its possible to make a party of 5 outcasts. Considering they are more suited to move around such a gank squad could be of some use even.

It all comes down to which commander and how pugs is the squad ypu have joined. There are pug squad that got wiped by smaller zerg, there are clueless commander, running with these squad, i am sure get less pip than solo roam.

I do solo roam and squad run, i found solo roam sometimes gain participation a lot faster than running in squad. Some classes are clearly more superior in roaming than being i zerg. But it is the player who decides how to take part in the mist war. The discrimination is in your mind. A party leader pick his own crewmate, this is happening in dungeon, raid, fractual and every other games.

Crossaber.8934:

It all comes down to which commander and how pugs is the squad ypu have joined. There are pug squad that got wiped by smaller zerg, there are clueless commander, running with these squad, i am sure get less pip than solo roam.

I do solo roam and squad run, i found solo roam sometimes gain participation a lot faster than running in squad. Some classes are clearly more superior in roaming than being i zerg. But it is the player who decides how to take part in the mist war. The discrimination is in your mind. A party leader pick his own crewmate, this is happening in dungeon, raid, fractual and every other games.

In dungeon and raids i can create own group and it is not limited by anything. The map has limit, even if i made own squad, the 40 something ppl don’t just drop the current squad and join me. I can’t also invite another 40+ people to join me as they simply won’t be able to enter the map due to cap. There is also not endless amount of EB or borderlands… unlike raid/dungeon instances.

Anet didn’t do squat for Necros the first three years to make them welcome in dungeons and sPvP. There was the Dhuumfire period where Necros were wanted in sPvP but it was quickly and harshly hit with the Nerf bazooka and blasted Necros back to the scrub tier.

At least medium armor classes can do something in WvW.

So your solution to the problem you see is to create the same problem somewhere else? Seems rather counterproductive.

I play thief on wvw and do whatever I want, be it roam around or run with the zerg but I hang back and pounce on any squishies or people that stray too far. If I want to run in the fray, I play my revenant, but I don’t roam with it because it’s not the best suited for that role, my thief is. You can’t be upset that you’re trying to fill a role your class can’t do very well, then say that others should be penalized because they can. I want to raid with my rev, it’s my favorite class, but it simply isn’t up to par. Doesn’t mean the classes that are desired for raiding should have to suffer just be because they can do it better.

Cynz.9437:

Crossaber.8934:

It all comes down to which commander and how pugs is the squad ypu have joined. There are pug squad that got wiped by smaller zerg, there are clueless commander, running with these squad, i am sure get less pip than solo roam.

I do solo roam and squad run, i found solo roam sometimes gain participation a lot faster than running in squad. Some classes are clearly more superior in roaming than being i zerg. But it is the player who decides how to take part in the mist war. The discrimination is in your mind. A party leader pick his own crewmate, this is happening in dungeon, raid, fractual and every other games.

In dungeon and raids i can create own group and it is not limited by anything. The map has limit, even if i made own squad, the 40 something ppl don’t just drop the current squad and join me. I can’t also invite another 40+ people to join me as they simply won’t be able to enter the map due to cap. There is also not endless amount of EB or borderlands… unlike raid/dungeon instances.

You can create your own squad by buying a commander tag like every post patch commander running around. I see anet commander running with thief, i don’t have a problem with him as long as he knows what he is doing.

No. You know which classes are welcome, and choose not to play them. Sorry. The only safe spaces in WvW are in Spawn.

I think it depends on your server I run on gates of madness. I have never had an issue with my server anyone is welcome into the group. Our commanders are pretty versatile they understand sure some classes are better for large fights. But they also know all classes can be useful and can do great things of they know what they are doing. The only time people get kicked is if they move borderlands but won’t leave said and won’t come back when asked. Or if they log off and don’t come back on after five or so min. I have had issues with other servers though. There was this tag from our first server link he got extremely upset when someone invited me a ranger into the squad and kicked me. I still ran with the zerg even though I wasn’t in it. I only wiped about twice and it was in our huge fights. Both times the tag would say in say chat do not res me. If anyone divided to res me they would be kicked. Both times I had the entire zerg walk over my body and ignore me. I stuck with my server commanders after that.

xikira.3264:

I think it depends on your server I run on gates of madness. I have never had an issue with my server anyone is welcome into the group. Our commanders are pretty versatile they understand sure some classes are better for large fights. But they also know all classes can be useful and can do great things of they know what they are doing. The only time people get kicked is if they move borderlands but won’t leave said and won’t come back when asked. Or if they log off and don’t come back on after five or so min. I have had issues with other servers though. There was this tag from our first server link he got extremely upset when someone invited me a ranger into the squad and kicked me. I still ran with the zerg even though I wasn’t in it. I only wiped about twice and it was in our huge fights. Both times the tag would say in say chat do not res me. If anyone divided to res me they would be kicked. Both times I had the entire zerg walk over my body and ignore me. I stuck with my server commanders after that.

That is disgusting behaviour for a commander.

Create your own squad and invite all the rejects into it. Problem solved.

many times i hop on TS to listen to commander but dont actually join squad. I get max ticks and have a ton of fun. Ive never been left for dead unless zerg pushed far away from me and ive been getting plenty of buffs.

In fact many times i hear tags saying pls join squad . Ive never heard them say pls join squad except thieves etc.

With the current wvw population i can get max participation very quickly even when roaming.

I see no problem here. sorry.

You don’t need to be in a squad to still get all the rewards for being with the squad. So you might not get all the same buffs, but look at it from another perspective. If your zerg is losing fights because LB rangers sitting far back are getting all the Stability, while frontline Guards are not, you are going to notice a far steeper drop-off in gain than if your zerg is winning fights and you are picking off stragglers from 1500 range.

An optimized and effective zerg is beneficial to everyone, even those not in the squad.

That is assuming this even happens. I’ve only once seen a commander have a preference for certain classes/specs in a zerg and that was in EotM of all places. It’s far more likely that a Commander with a locked Squad is reserving it for Guild members.

Erzian.5218:

Unless you have a name/reputation, guard and to some extend rev are the only 2 classes that give you a guarantee to get into a useful subgroup (read: stability). Guard because it brings stab and rev because it brings resistance and is not that popular (at least on my server). As soon as you play anything else, be it reaper, ele, thief or ranger, it does not matter because you might end up without stability either way as soon as there is a lack of guards. Necro has the advantage that it is usually prioritized over the other contenders. On rhe other hand, many wvw players have the strange habbit of making subgroups of the same class as soon as there are not enough guards e.g. Alle the necros in 1 group, all the eles in another group and so on, as if they were desperately trying to handicap their squad as much as possible, just because they do not have the desired amount of guards. My favorite are the ranger only subgroups to ensure that spotter stays among the rangers and the reaper and thief only subgroups to reduce the amount of boons in those subgroups to a minimum.

I just leave such squads, or tell commander to fire his lieutenant.

As for getting kicked, well tough life, change your class/build or become known on your server(there is a reason that players like sindrener aren’t kicked).

I was also always put in “rejects party” becouse of playing mesmer, but people came around and seen that i’m on point with my skills and that my party has 5 boons more than every other. Eventualy more and more commanders are recognizing that mesmer can be a replacement for second guard(yea even in pugs). Ofc there are commanders that are stuck in old ways still, i just don’t bother with those.

If you are playing normal ranger, non-healing druid, dagger/pistol thief, than there is no reason to not get kicked. I can’t go play dungeons on my minstrel mesmer and expect to acctuly be allowed in the party.

The balance of classes is fine, some classes are better for group play, others for solo/small scale objectives. U cant balance every class around everything, there’s always gonna be an optimal composition.

I suggest OP realizes that most of the classes excluded from zergs offer minimal contribution and at times take a slot from classes that make a zerg strong and competitive.
If u dont wanna play these classes no problem play what u like, but dont expect commanders to treat u like some special snowflake.

Or u can try and make your own squad where everyone can join with w/e they want and get farmed by enemy zergs over and over.

Erzian.5218:

Engi, thief and druid are not less viable in wvw than nec, guard, rev are in raids. While not optimal, they have builds that can contribute well enough.
The reason for being kicked is actually pretty simple:
a) stubborn/narrow-minded players (if they squad isn’t full either way)
b) stability: Open tags/raids often do not have enough party stability to give it to everyone, therefore it is given to the players/classes that are deemed most useful. This does not mean that the others are useless or not viable, they are just not optimal (Just like you can play high mmr pvp on guard or raid on necro – it is possible but it is not optimal).

Would be nice to have a 2nd class with access to strong party stability though.

Mesmer has quite strong party stability trough mantra of stability and boonshare. But mantra is only 240 range, so tightness is essential.

nottsgman.8206:

you know, you can follow the commander and the zerg without being in the squad, right?

You know that you get way less rewards and wxp when following a commander while not being in squad, right?

Jumpin Lumpix.6108:

nottsgman.8206:

you know, you can follow the commander and the zerg without being in the squad, right?

You know that you get way less rewards and wxp when following a commander while not being in squad, right?

no, you don’t, but you keep believing that

nottsgman.8206:

Jumpin Lumpix.6108:

nottsgman.8206:

you know, you can follow the commander and the zerg without being in the squad, right?

You know that you get way less rewards and wxp when following a commander while not being in squad, right?

no, you don’t, but you keep believing that

Uh it’s called tagging, just like being in a party if u don’t do enough dmg to a target u don’t get credit. If ur solo your much less likely to get credit for tagging

Jumpin Lumpix.6108:

nottsgman.8206:

Jumpin Lumpix.6108:

nottsgman.8206:

you know, you can follow the commander and the zerg without being in the squad, right?

You know that you get way less rewards and wxp when following a commander while not being in squad, right?

no, you don’t, but you keep believing that

Uh it’s called tagging, just like being in a party if u don’t do enough dmg to a target u don’t get credit. If ur solo your much less likely to get credit for tagging

How does your personal dps change when in a group or solo? for tagging as you say you need to damage a target. Guards have been tagging tons of enemies with their infamous “loot stick” doing miniscule damage for years.

Cynz.9437:

With recent changes to wvw, it became clear that classes like guards/war/necro/eles/revs (basically those must have in squad) get advantage over other classes in wvw because they are allowed into squad and allowed to zerg in wvw which allows them to gain ranks/pips faster in wvw. Meanwhile rest of the classes get kicked/forced into roaming due to their class design which results in less rank/pip gains in wvw.
Since wvw community and devs deemed it as fair and logical system i propose that zerg classes (guards, eles and co.) gain less shards/rewards/pips in other game modes (pvp/pve) compared to other classes (engis/druids etc.) to make up for the reward difference.

Quite the opposite. Roaming classes like thief / ranger will gain more pipes on servers with outnumbered buff(5 pipes). The tipical Shadow Arts Thiev can get participation just killing sentries on a server outnumbered all day without being harassed.

I decided to give it a try for a few hours this afternoon.

Went on my thief, got on TS, didn’t join the squad or any party, just to check out what it was like. I followed the comm, attacked stragglers, did some scouting here and there, and when there was a bigger fight, I’d do my own thing and harrass the backlines.

I did at no point feel like I got less lootbags. If anything I might even have gotten more, as when the zergs were dancing around eachother, I (and others like me) was in the backline rekking fools left, right and center. When they finally started rolling, I rolled with them and tagged and finished downed. I had not a single issue with not being in a squad, no problem with not getting boons, because, y’know… thief… you should be self-sufficient.

And I’m not even a very experienced thief, or even on a decent build, so this really smells suspiciously like entitled whining and ltp issues.

GundamSentinel.6470:

I decided to give it a try for a few hours this afternoon.

Went on my thief, got on TS, didn’t join the squad or any party, just to check out what it was like. I followed the comm, attacked stragglers, did some scouting here and there, and when there was a bigger fight, I’d do my own thing and harrass the backlines.

I did at no point feel like I got less lootbags. If anything I might even have gotten more, as when the zergs were dancing around eachother, I (and others like me) was in the backline rekking fools left, right and center. When they finally started rolling, I rolled with them and tagged and finished downed. I had not a single issue with not being in a squad, no problem with not getting boons, because, y’know… thief… you should be self-sufficient.

And I’m not even a very experienced thief, or even on a decent build, so this really smells suspiciously like entitled whining and ltp issues.

i tried this role with warrior, is extremely fun, playing warr like a thiev, with their huge survival skills is fun. u can jump solo on enemy zerg to confuse them and get back with just 2 dodge rolls. the commanders loved me cuz i created oportunity to push.

Spartacus.3192:

Jumpin Lumpix.6108:

nottsgman.8206:

Jumpin Lumpix.6108:

nottsgman.8206:

you know, you can follow the commander and the zerg without being in the squad, right?

You know that you get way less rewards and wxp when following a commander while not being in squad, right?

no, you don’t, but you keep believing that

Uh it’s called tagging, just like being in a party if u don’t do enough dmg to a target u don’t get credit. If ur solo your much less likely to get credit for tagging

How does your personal dps change when in a group or solo? for tagging as you say you need to damage a target. Guards have been tagging tons of enemies with their infamous “loot stick” doing miniscule damage for years.

Tagging requires you to do a certain minimum % of the total dmg of the target. If ur in a party or squad you share the dmg contribution of ur teammates. So if u have to do 5% of the total damage to a target to get tag credit, and your solo following a zerg, you might do 2% of the dmg yourself before the zerg kills the target and thus, you get no loot or wxp. Whereas if you do 2% of the dmg in a squad you get all the contribution of ur teammates which is the other 98% of the dmg, thus giving u tagging credit.

ugrakarma.9416:

GundamSentinel.6470:

I decided to give it a try for a few hours this afternoon.

Went on my thief, got on TS, didn’t join the squad or any party, just to check out what it was like. I followed the comm, attacked stragglers, did some scouting here and there, and when there was a bigger fight, I’d do my own thing and harrass the backlines.

I did at no point feel like I got less lootbags. If anything I might even have gotten more, as when the zergs were dancing around eachother, I (and others like me) was in the backline rekking fools left, right and center. When they finally started rolling, I rolled with them and tagged and finished downed. I had not a single issue with not being in a squad, no problem with not getting boons, because, y’know… thief… you should be self-sufficient.

And I’m not even a very experienced thief, or even on a decent build, so this really smells suspiciously like entitled whining and ltp issues.

i tried this role with warrior, is extremely fun, playing warr like a thiev, with their huge survival skills is fun. u can jump solo on enemy zerg to confuse them and get back with just 2 dodge rolls. the commanders loved me cuz i created oportunity to push.

Yeah, I sometimes do that on elementalist as well. Blink in with overload air, mist out, laugh.

Jumpin Lumpix.6108:

Spartacus.3192:

Jumpin Lumpix.6108:

nottsgman.8206:

Jumpin Lumpix.6108:

nottsgman.8206:

you know, you can follow the commander and the zerg without being in the squad, right?

You know that you get way less rewards and wxp when following a commander while not being in squad, right?

no, you don’t, but you keep believing that

Uh it’s called tagging, just like being in a party if u don’t do enough dmg to a target u don’t get credit. If ur solo your much less likely to get credit for tagging

How does your personal dps change when in a group or solo? for tagging as you say you need to damage a target. Guards have been tagging tons of enemies with their infamous “loot stick” doing miniscule damage for years.

Tagging requires you to do a certain minimum % of the total dmg of the target. If ur in a party or squad you share the dmg contribution of ur teammates. So if u have to do 5% of the total damage to a target to get tag credit, and your solo following a zerg, you might do 2% of the dmg yourself before the zerg kills the target and thus, you get no loot or wxp. Whereas if you do 2% of the dmg in a squad you get all the contribution of ur teammates which is the other 98% of the dmg, thus giving u tagging credit.

There is no such function in GW2 as far as I know, where are you getting these rather precise percentages from?

Shared partcipation assumes that the commander has assigned it and only apply to a max of 1 player per 5 man party (assuming that organisation, 10 peeps max otherwise). Few commanders use it. It also only apply to the party, not the entire squad.

Cynz.9437:

With recent changes to wvw, it became clear that classes like guards/war/necro/eles/revs (basically those must have in squad) get advantage over other classes in wvw because they are allowed into squad and allowed to zerg in wvw which allows them to gain ranks/pips faster in wvw. Meanwhile rest of the classes get kicked/forced into roaming due to their class design which results in less rank/pip gains in wvw.
Since wvw community and devs deemed it as fair and logical system i propose that zerg classes (guards, eles and co.) gain less shards/rewards/pips in other game modes (pvp/pve) compared to other classes (engis/druids etc.) to make up for the reward difference.

Firstly, what do you mean by “recent changes”?

Secondly, base on that “Recent changes”, how does that relate to “advantages”?

Assuming that what you mean by “recent changes” refers to class designs which actually logically don’t make sense because it isn’t recent. You can only blame anet for such a design as players naturally will take the optimal route to victory. I have a very impotant question to you, do you do pve raid? If you do, do you have what it takes to accept dps roles of classes that can’t do dps, healer roles that can’t heal, support roles that can’t do alacrity/quickness in your raid squad? If you can’t, then on what basis should wvw commanders accept?

Jumpin Lumpix.6108:

Spartacus.3192:

Jumpin Lumpix.6108:

nottsgman.8206:

Jumpin Lumpix.6108:

nottsgman.8206:

you know, you can follow the commander and the zerg without being in the squad, right?

You know that you get way less rewards and wxp when following a commander while not being in squad, right?

no, you don’t, but you keep believing that

Uh it’s called tagging, just like being in a party if u don’t do enough dmg to a target u don’t get credit. If ur solo your much less likely to get credit for tagging

How does your personal dps change when in a group or solo? for tagging as you say you need to damage a target. Guards have been tagging tons of enemies with their infamous “loot stick” doing miniscule damage for years.

Tagging requires you to do a certain minimum % of the total dmg of the target. If ur in a party or squad you share the dmg contribution of ur teammates. So if u have to do 5% of the total damage to a target to get tag credit, and your solo following a zerg, you might do 2% of the dmg yourself before the zerg kills the target and thus, you get no loot or wxp. Whereas if you do 2% of the dmg in a squad you get all the contribution of ur teammates which is the other 98% of the dmg, thus giving u tagging credit.

Your percentages may be wrong or right, however, it doesn’t apply to the squad damage. It applies to your PARTY’s damage within the squad.
Now, I can’t imagine you are the ONLY one being left out of squads (as if you are it suggests a whole other issue), so forming a party of the remnants will solve your ‘target tagging’ problem.

Jumpin Lumpix.6108:

nottsgman.8206:

you know, you can follow the commander and the zerg without being in the squad, right?

You know that you get way less rewards and wxp when following a commander while not being in squad, right?

Yes, it’s harder to receive credit, but this is a marginal difference. It’s 80% a l2p issue. but I often run without joining the squads and receive plenty of loot.

The key is to maximize cleave/aoe, and use sigils of fire. And also do non-garbage damage.

If you’re not getting it, then you’re bringing a bad zerg build or don’t know how to position. If that’s the case, being in the squad would be a waste of space anyways. It seems to be a sentiment flying around that being in a squad is going to magically solve all problems (But that requires being put in a boonshare party WITHIN the squad) when it really doesn’t. Being in a squad doesn’t make your skills hit more targets either.

Simply put, if one carries this idea around, they’re going to be a rallybot in or out of a proper squad. Because all that really says is that one is unable to adapt and seeks to be carried.

• Thieves can spam shortbow/vault, especially on downs
• Engineers can use mortar kit/for a similar effect, and hammer. They also have 2 reflects with hammer 2 and bulwark gyro’s toolbelt. Elixir U can also help but that’s not reliable.
• Mesmers have wells and feedback. Shield 5 is also highly effective. Taking Time Catches up allows those shatters to actually hit before they die.
• Rangers are a bit screwed but they can use fire sigils to compensate. Pop Rampage as One and Celestial avatar 5 the stack when you have a good shot. Typical heal spamming also helps. Also make good use of ancient seeds.
• Eles can take staff with sigils of draining. This turns Earth 4 into a damage skill. It also makes Static Field and Earth 4 into basically self-heals of 5k or more! Cast it on their tail, instead of on their train which probably has stability for now. You can also share earth aura for reflects, and there is also aftershock if you don’t take aura share. The easiest way to stay alive and tag is to spam water 1 and 2 off cooldown, ensuring you heal people and also deal a bit of damage along the way.
• Warriors can take hammer/gs and just fly through the mob tagging everything. Don’t dive in. You want tocut it like a steak.
• I really don’t have to explain the rest.

Now some people will go “But that’s selfish or non-meta hurf durf” True, but meta builds assume you have a proper squad. You don’t here and running some of those builds without proper support is foolish.

CutesySylveon.8290:

I play thief on wvw and do whatever I want, be it roam around or run with the zerg but I hang back and pounce on any squishies or people that stray too far. If I want to run in the fray, I play my revenant, but I don’t roam with it because it’s not the best suited for that role, my thief is. You can’t be upset that you’re trying to fill a role your class can’t do very well, then say that others should be penalized because they can. I want to raid with my rev, it’s my favorite class, but it simply isn’t up to par. Doesn’t mean the classes that are desired for raiding should have to suffer just be because they can do it better.

This guy gets it.
You wouldn’t use a screwdriver when you need a hammer.
I also say this as a medium main, get over it and pick a zerg class.

Erzian.5218:

SloRules.3560:

Erzian.5218:

Engi, thief and druid are not less viable in wvw than nec, guard, rev are in raids. While not optimal, they have builds that can contribute well enough.
The reason for being kicked is actually pretty simple:
a) stubborn/narrow-minded players (if they squad isn’t full either way)
b) stability: Open tags/raids often do not have enough party stability to give it to everyone, therefore it is given to the players/classes that are deemed most useful. This does not mean that the others are useless or not viable, they are just not optimal (Just like you can play high mmr pvp on guard or raid on necro – it is possible but it is not optimal).

Would be nice to have a 2nd class with access to strong party stability though.

Mesmer has quite strong party stability trough mantra of stability and boonshare. But mantra is only 240 range, so tightness is essential.

Don’t think 240 range is practical in most squads
Unfortunately mesmer is also a class that you do not want to stack in squads.

Acctuly, mesmer is one of best classes(i would prioritize it over revenant) for any group, it has huge boonshare(every single boon in game, with everything but quickness and resistance being 100% uptime for first minute or so of the fight), while providing stability and cleanses and healing along with some of best CC in game.

People are just too stubrn to understand it and most mesmers are not good enough to play it(and lack 1000g to get the equipment).

SloRules.3560:

Erzian.5218:

SloRules.3560:

Erzian.5218:

Engi, thief and druid are not less viable in wvw than nec, guard, rev are in raids. While not optimal, they have builds that can contribute well enough.
The reason for being kicked is actually pretty simple:
a) stubborn/narrow-minded players (if they squad isn’t full either way)
b) stability: Open tags/raids often do not have enough party stability to give it to everyone, therefore it is given to the players/classes that are deemed most useful. This does not mean that the others are useless or not viable, they are just not optimal (Just like you can play high mmr pvp on guard or raid on necro – it is possible but it is not optimal).

Would be nice to have a 2nd class with access to strong party stability though.

Mesmer has quite strong party stability trough mantra of stability and boonshare. But mantra is only 240 range, so tightness is essential.

Don’t think 240 range is practical in most squads
Unfortunately mesmer is also a class that you do not want to stack in squads.

Acctuly, mesmer is one of best classes(i would prioritize it over revenant) for any group, it has huge boonshare(every single boon in game, with everything but quickness and resistance being 100% uptime for first minute or so of the fight), while providing stability and cleanses and healing along with some of best CC in game.

People are just too stubrn to understand it and most mesmers are not good enough to play it(and lack 1000g to get the equipment).

Yup Mesmers are so amazing with their boonshare,stability, alacrity as well as portal and veils. I sadly cant play one to save my life I wish I could get good at one though XD

SloRules.3560:

Acctuly, mesmer is one of best classes(i would prioritize it over revenant) for any group, it has huge boonshare(every single boon in game, with everything but quickness and resistance being 100% uptime for first minute or so of the fight), while providing stability and cleanses and healing along with some of best CC in game.

People are just too stubrn to understand it and most mesmers are not good enough to play it(and lack 1000g to get the equipment).

It is also one of the most boring builds to play in the game (which is saying a lot post HoT), most decent mesmers (in fact most decent players & guilds) have quit / barely play the game rather than play tedious crap like that.

Faaris.8013:

Then just play one of those classes. ArenaNet set the incentive, they might have wished for this.

If nobody plays Thief or Ranger in WvW anymore, maybe ArenaNet changes the incentives, or they don’t care which classes are played in WvW. You as a player are not excluded, you choose to exclude yourself from these rewards if you play a class that doesn’t fit the mode.

There’s no reason to change rewards in other modes to make things “fair”. How fair would it be if people simply played Guardian in WvW and Engineers in PvP/PvE and gain max rewards from all modes?

I know players who switch classes from fractal to fractal and it’s quite common to pick the class that fits a raid best when you join. Nobody is excluded, you get 5 character slots and can get up to 64. And as long as no players are excluded, I don’t see an issue with exclusion. Some classes are better for WvW than others, same goes for raids, fractals, PvE, PvP.

O yah, let me just go rank up another class to Rank 80 and I better make sure its what the paramilitary cmdrs want, cuz if they change it, I will have to start all over again and rank up another new class. O wait, Ive already done that 11 times. O good, at least I’m all set!