Guild Wars 2

zinkz.7045:

SloRules.3560:

Acctuly, mesmer is one of best classes(i would prioritize it over revenant) for any group, it has huge boonshare(every single boon in game, with everything but quickness and resistance being 100% uptime for first minute or so of the fight), while providing stability and cleanses and healing along with some of best CC in game.

People are just too stubrn to understand it and most mesmers are not good enough to play it(and lack 1000g to get the equipment).

It is also one of the most boring builds to play in the game (which is saying a lot post HoT), most decent mesmers (in fact most decent players & guilds) have quit / barely play the game rather than play tedious crap like that.

Mesmers has always been the most boring zergers in the game even before that gear existed. Was never the same after the nerf to confusion.

Feanor.2358:

Cynz.9437:

With recent changes to wvw, it became clear that classes like guards/war/necro/eles/revs (basically those must have in squad) get advantage over other classes in wvw because they are allowed into squad and allowed to zerg in wvw which allows them to gain ranks/pips faster in wvw. Meanwhile rest of the classes get kicked/forced into roaming due to their class design which results in less rank/pip gains in wvw.
Since wvw community and devs deemed it as fair and logical system i propose that zerg classes (guards, eles and co.) gain less shards/rewards/pips in other game modes (pvp/pve) compared to other classes (engis/druids etc.) to make up for the reward difference.

How, exactly, can anyone prevent you from following the commander/zerg with just about any class or build? So what if you’re not in the squad? WvW is actually the one game mode where class discrimination matters the least. Ask just about any revenant who wants to dps in a raid, for instance.

Um. Being in squad actually matters a lot. Its the immersive experience, not alienating and alone. If I want to be alone, Ill go pve.

If I run alongside the zerg, w/o being in squad I get less heals, rezes, buffs, pips, rewards.

A cmdr can block u from squad, even if its not full, for being deaf (need TS), for being a ranger, engi, etc., for not being willing to scout endlessly days on end, for dying too often (often unavoidable if ur helping others by rezzing), or any old thing they want (they just don’t like u).

Class discrimination in wvw is very real and actually matters a lot. And it shouldn’t be allowed. All who are willing/trying (not afk) should be able to play in a squad and reap the benefits. Stop endorsing exclusionary practices – we paid our good real life money as well (esp when we’ve popped boosters!).

meh, loot stacks up whether you’re inside or outside the zerg squad, cant say ive ever noticed much of a difference at all.

As for survivability, Thief/Ranger/Engi should be quite able to manage fine without being in squad, hell i’m average at ranger and manage to stay alive in blob fights pretty easily. Know the role, listen on TS and keep decent positioning and you shouldn’t die that much. If you are then you are doing it wrong

“If I run alongside the zerg, w/o being in squad I get less heals, rezes, buffs, pips, rewards.”

Don’t believe this.

-Heals are generally AOE unless you’re downed, then it becomes a different matter. This is discussed with rezes.

-Rezes are given out pretty much to anyone who contributes to the fight regardless of squad. I have never seen anyone deny healing when they start healing those who died…if they rez after the fight and you’re close enough that it doesn’t put the healer at risk. That’s an important distinction, since pretty much no one gets healed during a fight, squad or not. And if it’s a protracted fight or your squad loses, then no one usually gets healed anyway.

-Buffs. If you’re in the group running and a buff is given out, you get it. Not squad dependent. No char has the ability to target only squad members with a buff if the buff is given to out as a consequence of an ability and not targeted to one individual.

-Pips are the same for each person regardless of squad membership as is experience and rewards from mini-events. What matters in the reward system is proximity and participation (and in this case rank in WvW), not squad membership. This is an intended mechanic within GW2.

However, communication does matter. It impacts movement, tactics, directed actions and requests. These can have a significant impact on squad performance and fight outcome.

Jumpin Lumpix.6108:

Spartacus.3192:

Jumpin Lumpix.6108:

nottsgman.8206:

Jumpin Lumpix.6108:

nottsgman.8206:

you know, you can follow the commander and the zerg without being in the squad, right?

You know that you get way less rewards and wxp when following a commander while not being in squad, right?

no, you don’t, but you keep believing that

Uh it’s called tagging, just like being in a party if u don’t do enough dmg to a target u don’t get credit. If ur solo your much less likely to get credit for tagging

How does your personal dps change when in a group or solo? for tagging as you say you need to damage a target. Guards have been tagging tons of enemies with their infamous “loot stick” doing miniscule damage for years.

Tagging requires you to do a certain minimum % of the total dmg of the target. If ur in a party or squad you share the dmg contribution of ur teammates. So if u have to do 5% of the total damage to a target to get tag credit, and your solo following a zerg, you might do 2% of the dmg yourself before the zerg kills the target and thus, you get no loot or wxp. Whereas if you do 2% of the dmg in a squad you get all the contribution of ur teammates which is the other 98% of the dmg, thus giving u tagging credit.

Tagging is shared in party, not squad. Even solo a single kitten aoe can already tag a ton of enemy players. The percentage required to get contribution is puny. Even then kills are a tiny fraction of WXP gains, not “way less rewards” in general.

You’ve demonstrated over and over to have virtually zero actual experience or knowledge of how WvW works. Yet you keep showing up, spouting your doomsday nonsense at other players who know as little as you. If you are so concerned about players being unmotivated to engage in content then you are certainly part of the problem by spreading your falsehoods and misinformation.

Eater of Peeps.9062:

Feanor.2358:

Cynz.9437:

With recent changes to wvw, it became clear that classes like guards/war/necro/eles/revs (basically those must have in squad) get advantage over other classes in wvw because they are allowed into squad and allowed to zerg in wvw which allows them to gain ranks/pips faster in wvw. Meanwhile rest of the classes get kicked/forced into roaming due to their class design which results in less rank/pip gains in wvw.
Since wvw community and devs deemed it as fair and logical system i propose that zerg classes (guards, eles and co.) gain less shards/rewards/pips in other game modes (pvp/pve) compared to other classes (engis/druids etc.) to make up for the reward difference.

How, exactly, can anyone prevent you from following the commander/zerg with just about any class or build? So what if you’re not in the squad? WvW is actually the one game mode where class discrimination matters the least. Ask just about any revenant who wants to dps in a raid, for instance.

Um. Being in squad actually matters a lot. Its the immersive experience, not alienating and alone. If I want to be alone, Ill go pve.

If I run alongside the zerg, w/o being in squad I get less heals, rezes, buffs, pips, rewards.

A cmdr can block u from squad, even if its not full, for being deaf (need TS), for being a ranger, engi, etc., for not being willing to scout endlessly days on end, for dying too often (often unavoidable if ur helping others by rezzing), or any old thing they want (they just don’t like u).

Class discrimination in wvw is very real and actually matters a lot. And it shouldn’t be allowed. All who are willing/trying (not afk) should be able to play in a squad and reap the benefits. Stop endorsing exclusionary practices – we paid our good real life money as well (esp when we’ve popped boosters!).

If you want immersion, then go Rp. If you’re going to be a part of a team effort, then you can’t expect it to be all about you and how you want things.

When I roam, then it’s about me because no one is relying on me, but if I’m zerging, then I have to pull my weight in whatever role that may be for the team.

A good commander will set up thier squad to best suit thier purposes, and if you don’t contribute, then who are you to demand a place on a team you don’t consider beyond yourself?

Stop being selfish.

Eypheha.5831:

“If I run alongside the zerg, w/o being in squad I get less heals, rezes, buffs, pips, rewards.”

Don’t believe this.

-Heals are generally AOE unless you’re downed, then it becomes a different matter. This is discussed with rezes.

-Rezes are given out pretty much to anyone who contributes to the fight regardless of squad. I have never seen anyone deny healing when they start healing those who died…if they rez after the fight and you’re close enough that it doesn’t put the healer at risk. That’s an important distinction, since pretty much no one gets healed during a fight, squad or not. And if it’s a protracted fight or your squad loses, then no one usually gets healed anyway.

-Buffs. If you’re in the group running and a buff is given out, you get it. Not squad dependent. No char has the ability to target only squad members with a buff if the buff is given to out as a consequence of an ability and not targeted to one individual.

-Pips are the same for each person regardless of squad membership as is experience and rewards from mini-events. What matters in the reward system is proximity and participation (and in this case rank in WvW), not squad membership. This is an intended mechanic within GW2.

However, communication does matter. It impacts movement, tactics, directed actions and requests. These can have a significant impact on squad performance and fight outcome.

K, so you are really ignorant about the game’s mechanics.

All buffs, healing, and cleanses follow this priority: Party first. If a party member is too far then it goes to the closest squad member. Next are player pets. Almost every cleanse/heal/boon in the game affects you and 5 people, this is why parties are sorted into groups of 5, to ensure proper distribution an no redundancies. So, yeah, if you’re not in the squad, the chances of you getting any heal, boon, or cleanse is extremely low and you’re gonna die fast.

Most WvW groups I play with will NOT res people not in squad. This is because they are relatively useless and considered “rally bait.” Why bother ressing someone, risk loosing another player when doing so, when odds are they will die again, right away and end up rallying an enemy player.

Decado.9304:

meh, loot stacks up whether you’re inside or outside the zerg squad, cant say ive ever noticed much of a difference at all.

As for survivability, Thief/Ranger/Engi should be quite able to manage fine without being in squad, hell i’m average at ranger and manage to stay alive in blob fights pretty easily. Know the role, listen on TS and keep decent positioning and you shouldn’t die that much. If you are then you are doing it wrong

Loot stacks up, but protections/buffs/rewards are less than outside than inside squad. Rezzes rarely occur if ur outside the squad, ditto heals. Also, what if u cant get on TS and they boot for that?

Also, if ur booted from squad for being a ranger, how do u listen to TS – in my experience, most I’ve seen who r booted don’t want to listen in.

Eypheha.5831:

“If I run alongside the zerg, w/o being in squad I get less heals, rezes, buffs, pips, rewards.”

Don’t believe this.

-Heals are generally AOE unless you’re downed, then it becomes a different matter. This is discussed with rezes.

-Rezes are given out pretty much to anyone who contributes to the fight regardless of squad. I have never seen anyone deny healing when they start healing those who died…if they rez after the fight and you’re close enough that it doesn’t put the healer at risk. That’s an important distinction, since pretty much no one gets healed during a fight, squad or not. And if it’s a protracted fight or your squad loses, then no one usually gets healed anyway.

-Buffs. If you’re in the group running and a buff is given out, you get it. Not squad dependent. No char has the ability to target only squad members with a buff if the buff is given to out as a consequence of an ability and not targeted to one individual.

-Pips are the same for each person regardless of squad membership as is experience and rewards from mini-events. What matters in the reward system is proximity and participation (and in this case rank in WvW), not squad membership. This is an intended mechanic within GW2.

However, communication does matter. It impacts movement, tactics, directed actions and requests. These can have a significant impact on squad performance and fight outcome.

Don’t believe this. I not only have seen what I said, I’ve personally experienced it. I’m not lying.

Some heals are not AOE and all heals and many protective/heal buffs are limited in number affected. I have personally seen and experienced heal/protection exclusion outside the squad. Most squad players heal squad players and their pets before healing outside players. In fact, I would say it is the more common practice, not an exception.

The bit about the rezzes is simply not accurate at all. I rarely see ppl in squad rezzing ppl outside squad – they barely rez ppl in squad – focusing more on movement and kills (cuz rezzing isn’t fun) – even post battle or in safe spots during battle. They just run on, quickly in fact, leaving the excluded fallen to die, happy they escaped and oftentimes lolololoing the whole way. I have seen players in squads stand there with excluded downed players in front of them and not lift a finger, even when the enemy has withdrawn, to rez them.

It seems to me that the mentality of the squad, as expressed here openly by many, is that roamers/solos or excluded ones serve as meat shield purposes for the illustrious squad members, and that their function is to alert cmdrs to tactical decisions based on where and how many of those “useful” excluded ones die (or died in a zerg battle).

Also, solo survivability also seems to be some test of prowess- why I don’t know, as I frequently die/sacrifice myself so that 6 or 7 players I have singlehandedly rezzed can go free. Since I can run fast, I figure I might get away too and if I don’t one death is better than 7 when I take one for the team. This should be applauded, but somehow, it is looked down on, like well, u died, so ur not good. Strange.

Buffs are given out and they hit whoever is near, but when buffs r given out it is frequently to the group in tier – hence the organizational tier of a squad. I have rarely seen players give buffs to stragglers, outsiders, roamers, soloers – its all about positioning. You get it if ur near and positioned well (healers often buff in a cone), which when out of squad, is hard to see whom you need to buff or can get buff from, but is normally visually easy to see whom to buff or get buff from – especially when combined with tier placement. So, if I’m a guard, I’m gonna buff players I recognize in squad via blue dots and tier construction, not go out of my way to run over to where a tiny green dotted soloist might be when I cant even tell his health unless I actually see him.

Also, if I’m good enuf to be running solo that close to the squad to avail myself of buffs doled out in squad, then I am following command REALLY WELL and therefore if the squad is not full – Y am I not in squad? Obviously I know what I’m doing and playing my class to helpful advantage. Pls explain that one to me, cuz I’m confused.

U get full participation for structure cap or associated player/npc kill in or out of squad and can arguably get equal pips. But tagging credit is not the same in and out of squad. Tagging credit, a mechanism which bases ur percentage of hit (or contribution to the skill) means u will get better kill credit in squad than out, resulting in more bags and more importantly, higher and faster rank up.

Think about it. I primarily play necro and guard as my two (tho not sole) WvW classes. I can down scores of people with wells and guard skills. All of those downed players become easy marks for quick kill by myself and others. I can do this in and out of squad. However, the number of kill credits I will get for the exact same skill/maneuvers/downed players will be greatly increased in a squad. I can either keep downing more players or wipe up the downs I made. However, in a squad, that is a way more efficient, quicker process, essential to the zerg battle win. And btw, if I’m downing 10 players – why shouldn’t I get my share of credit for downing them all? Why should I down 10 players to get 2 kills running solo, while the squad mops up the bags? In that scenario, I not only feel like a meat shield, I feel I’m being used and punished.

Finally, communication is good. It does help. Typemanding can help those who need it. TS can help those who can hear it and/or log in. But all of ur arguments fail because if I am close enuf to the squad to actually receive its benefits, as u suggest, then Y am I not in it – when clearly I’m following AOK.

Terrahero.9358:

Jumpin Lumpix.6108:

Spartacus.3192:

Jumpin Lumpix.6108:

nottsgman.8206:

Jumpin Lumpix.6108:

nottsgman.8206:

you know, you can follow the commander and the zerg without being in the squad, right?

You know that you get way less rewards and wxp when following a commander while not being in squad, right?

no, you don’t, but you keep believing that

Uh it’s called tagging, just like being in a party if u don’t do enough dmg to a target u don’t get credit. If ur solo your much less likely to get credit for tagging

How does your personal dps change when in a group or solo? for tagging as you say you need to damage a target. Guards have been tagging tons of enemies with their infamous “loot stick” doing miniscule damage for years.

Tagging requires you to do a certain minimum % of the total dmg of the target. If ur in a party or squad you share the dmg contribution of ur teammates. So if u have to do 5% of the total damage to a target to get tag credit, and your solo following a zerg, you might do 2% of the dmg yourself before the zerg kills the target and thus, you get no loot or wxp. Whereas if you do 2% of the dmg in a squad you get all the contribution of ur teammates which is the other 98% of the dmg, thus giving u tagging credit.

Tagging is shared in party, not squad. Even solo a single kitten aoe can already tag a ton of enemy players. The percentage required to get contribution is puny. Even then kills are a tiny fraction of WXP gains, not “way less rewards” in general.

You’ve demonstrated over and over to have virtually zero actual experience or knowledge of how WvW works. Yet you keep showing up, spouting your doomsday nonsense at other players who know as little as you. If you are so concerned about players being unmotivated to engage in content then you are certainly part of the problem by spreading your falsehoods and misinformation.

Really lol zero experience of how it works. I have countless kills where I don’t get credit after tagging an npc or enemy player while outside squad. Wxp is gained fairly rapidly when doing a lot of zerg vs zerg. The amount gained from large zerg vs zerg fights (if your zerg wins consistently) is almost on par w/karma training. I don’t know the actual % needed to get contribution, the 5% was an example to make a point of how it works. I agree that the % is minuscule, however its still enough that I don’t get a lot of credit outside of a squad for a fair number of kills, (this is running marauder/zerk stats).

but yah with 6.7k hours in gw2 what do i Know right? – here’s some references for you

Edge.4180:

Someone will say there is no “tagging” in this game.

According to pre-launch developer interviews, players need to do somewhere between 5-10% of the damage necessary to kill a monster in order to receive credit for killing it.

As there are only so many “5-10%” slices to go around, it should be obvious that once you pile more than X players on the same target, someone is going to lose out.

This was a huge problem during the Ancient Karka event. Many players received almost no loot during the entire 2-3 hour battle. Others were receiving drops consistently. In a recent AMA on Reddit, ANet claimed that was a “bug”.

PowerCat.5738:

Tagging while in a party works differently: Your entire group’s damage is compared against the mob to see if you TAG it. That is to say if 4 players in your party do 500 damage, but one does only 100 damage, they’ll still tag it, because as a group, you did 2100 damage.

Terrahero.9358:

Jumpin Lumpix.6108:

Spartacus.3192:

Jumpin Lumpix.6108:

nottsgman.8206:

Jumpin Lumpix.6108:

nottsgman.8206:

you know, you can follow the commander and the zerg without being in the squad, right?

You know that you get way less rewards and wxp when following a commander while not being in squad, right?

no, you don’t, but you keep believing that

Uh it’s called tagging, just like being in a party if u don’t do enough dmg to a target u don’t get credit. If ur solo your much less likely to get credit for tagging

How does your personal dps change when in a group or solo? for tagging as you say you need to damage a target. Guards have been tagging tons of enemies with their infamous “loot stick” doing miniscule damage for years.

Tagging requires you to do a certain minimum % of the total dmg of the target. If ur in a party or squad you share the dmg contribution of ur teammates. So if u have to do 5% of the total damage to a target to get tag credit, and your solo following a zerg, you might do 2% of the dmg yourself before the zerg kills the target and thus, you get no loot or wxp. Whereas if you do 2% of the dmg in a squad you get all the contribution of ur teammates which is the other 98% of the dmg, thus giving u tagging credit.

Tagging is shared in party, not squad. Even solo a single kitten aoe can already tag a ton of enemy players. The percentage required to get contribution is puny. Even then kills are a tiny fraction of WXP gains, not “way less rewards” in general.

You’ve demonstrated over and over to have virtually zero actual experience or knowledge of how WvW works. Yet you keep showing up, spouting your doomsday nonsense at other players who know as little as you. If you are so concerned about players being unmotivated to engage in content then you are certainly part of the problem by spreading your falsehoods and misinformation.

I have a ton of experience in WvW and know exactly how it works. Idon’t see that any of the players in here arguing against class discrimination or squad exclusion have said a single thing, whether about the issue in general or their description of mechanics, that is wrong.

You are woefully wrong and self-serving and making a point of what?

If I am close enuf to the squad to receive its benefits solo, as u insist, then I’m running right on top of the squad, following the commander nicely, and if the squad is not full, then Y am I not allowed in the squad? Answer that pls, cuz I’m confused and u seem pretty confident in ur self-serving responses which have a goal of what – exclusionary elitism with no net gain to the squad. Super!

Also, if I’m not only tagging but downing players as a guard, necro or rev, Y should the squad get all the benefits of my actions but I get little or none. Isn’t it ur same argument in reverse? Y do u think u r ENTITLED to the benefits of my play?

O, that’s right its a TEAM effort – so play like a team, not a ….. w/e.

Jumpin Lumpix.6108:

nottsgman.8206:

you know, you can follow the commander and the zerg without being in the squad, right?

You know that you get way less rewards and wxp when following a commander while not being in squad, right?

Really, I must be doing it wrong. I mostly play gank classes/builds ankitten ot in the commanders squad when im with the zerg. Nevertheless i’ve maxed out pips within a day both times so far. Here’s how to get contribution:-

For an objective, contribute to a guard or player kill.
For a player, cause damage to the player, or heal/buff someone else that damages them.

That’s it. Neither way is done more easily in a squad than out. The only thing that makes a difference is how well your particular class does aoe damage, healing or buffing. If your single target ‘selfish’ dps you’re going to tag less than a staff ele, for example.

The only disparity is class and honestly, if you choose to play one that doesnt tag well, thats because you just want to play what you personally enjoy rather than optimal farming and that’s a choice we all make.

If a squad do not res dead allies roamers, the discrimination is in their mind, you should educate them instead of blaming the game mechanics. My world i never see any ressing issue or kicking issue, NONE!

If it is your server’s culture, then you better ask anet for a one time free world transfer instead. Even anet removed all classes but one, you could still got kicked out of the squad with your world’s culture.

Celsith.2753:

Jumpin Lumpix.6108:

nottsgman.8206:

you know, you can follow the commander and the zerg without being in the squad, right?

You know that you get way less rewards and wxp when following a commander while not being in squad, right?

Really, I must be doing it wrong. I mostly play gank classes/builds ankitten EVER in the commanders squad when im with the zerg. Nevertheless i’ve maxed out pips within a day both times so far. Here’s how to get contribution:-

For an objective, contribute to a guard or player kill.
For a player, cause damage to the player, or heal/buff someone else that damages them.

That’s it. Neither way is done more easily in a squad than out. The only thing that makes a difference is how well your particular class does aoe damage, healing or buffing. If your single target ‘selfish’ dps you’re going to tag less than a staff ele, for example.

The only disparity is class and honestly, if you choose to play one that doesnt tag well, thats because you just want to play what you personally enjoy rather than optimal farming and that’s a choice we all make.

Your talking about skirmish rewards and pip gain through wvw participation. I’m talking about tagging npc’s and enemy players in order to gain wxp and bags. I’m also talking about how a party/squad impacts a players ability to tag more easily/efficiently then someone outside of a squad/party (solo). – which is true.

Jumpin Lumpix.6108:

Celsith.2753:

Jumpin Lumpix.6108:

nottsgman.8206:

you know, you can follow the commander and the zerg without being in the squad, right?

You know that you get way less rewards and wxp when following a commander while not being in squad, right?

Really, I must be doing it wrong. I mostly play gank classes/builds ankitten EVER in the commanders squad when im with the zerg. Nevertheless i’ve maxed out pips within a day both times so far. Here’s how to get contribution:-

For an objective, contribute to a guard or player kill.
For a player, cause damage to the player, or heal/buff someone else that damages them.

That’s it. Neither way is done more easily in a squad than out. The only thing that makes a difference is how well your particular class does aoe damage, healing or buffing. If your single target ‘selfish’ dps you’re going to tag less than a staff ele, for example.

The only disparity is class and honestly, if you choose to play one that doesnt tag well, thats because you just want to play what you personally enjoy rather than optimal farming and that’s a choice we all make.

Your talking about skirmish rewards and pip gain through wvw participation. I’m talking about tagging npc’s and enemy players in order to gain wxp and bags. I’m also talking about how a party/squad impacts a players ability to tag more easily/efficiently then someone outside of a squad/party (solo). – which is true.

Again, its class that makes the difference, not party or squad. If you are solo and put out a boon, the game does not go, ‘oh hes solo so we wont buff 4 people round him’. If you have a 5 man buff, its going to buff you and four other people in range regardless of whether you are partied with them. Infact, last time I looked into it, it was slightly better to be solo, because things like regen and stability then prioritize people that don’t already have them, whereas if you are grouped it goes first to the people in your group that are in range. This is why some squads choose to have heal spec eles in their own group or maybe with one other, so it prioritizes the maximum amount of people needing heal.

Dawdler.8521:

Spurnshadow.3678:

All buffs, healing, and cleanses follow this priority: Party first. If a party member is too far then it goes to the closest squad member. Next are player pets. Almost every cleanse/heal/boon in the game affects you and 5 people, this is why parties are sorted into groups of 5, to ensure proper distribution an no redundancies. So, yeah, if you’re not in the squad, the chances of you getting any heal, boon, or cleanse is extremely low and you’re gonna die fast.

Which is the entire point of the argument.

Some builds doesnt need your party or the squad, they bring their own stealth, heals, cleanses and boons. Medium armor classes often happen to run these particular builds as they perform the role well.

That you argue “you’re gonna die fast” is the result of not using your class optimally true but that goes every way. I will argue the same thing if you want to take a meta AH guard into a 2 man group. Just GTFO because you’re complete kitten at it.

And to add to that, I only have one thing to say:

600 range.

ArchonWing.9480:

Dawdler.8521:

Spurnshadow.3678:

All buffs, healing, and cleanses follow this priority: Party first. If a party member is too far then it goes to the closest squad member. Next are player pets. Almost every cleanse/heal/boon in the game affects you and 5 people, this is why parties are sorted into groups of 5, to ensure proper distribution an no redundancies. So, yeah, if you’re not in the squad, the chances of you getting any heal, boon, or cleanse is extremely low and you’re gonna die fast.

Which is the entire point of the argument.

Some builds doesnt need your party or the squad, they bring their own stealth, heals, cleanses and boons. Medium armor classes often happen to run these particular builds as they perform the role well.

That you argue “you’re gonna die fast” is the result of not using your class optimally true but that goes every way. I will argue the same thing if you want to take a meta AH guard into a 2 man group. Just GTFO because you’re complete kitten at it.

And to add to that, I only have one thing to say:

600 range.

To add to this, when we have a group along side the zerg, we tend to have a ‘pick build’ guard or similar around thats zooming round WITH the thieves/mesmers etc to be in range for an ‘oh kitten’ heal or buff. Being in party with a melee train guard would do them no good whatsoever as theyre never in range of them.

Celsith.2753:

Jumpin Lumpix.6108:

Celsith.2753:

Jumpin Lumpix.6108:

nottsgman.8206:

you know, you can follow the commander and the zerg without being in the squad, right?

You know that you get way less rewards and wxp when following a commander while not being in squad, right?

Really, I must be doing it wrong. I mostly play gank classes/builds ankitten EVER in the commanders squad when im with the zerg. Nevertheless i’ve maxed out pips within a day both times so far. Here’s how to get contribution:-

For an objective, contribute to a guard or player kill.
For a player, cause damage to the player, or heal/buff someone else that damages them.

That’s it. Neither way is done more easily in a squad than out. The only thing that makes a difference is how well your particular class does aoe damage, healing or buffing. If your single target ‘selfish’ dps you’re going to tag less than a staff ele, for example.

The only disparity is class and honestly, if you choose to play one that doesnt tag well, thats because you just want to play what you personally enjoy rather than optimal farming and that’s a choice we all make.

Your talking about skirmish rewards and pip gain through wvw participation. I’m talking about tagging npc’s and enemy players in order to gain wxp and bags. I’m also talking about how a party/squad impacts a players ability to tag more easily/efficiently then someone outside of a squad/party (solo). – which is true.

Again, its class that makes the difference, not party or squad. If you are solo and put out a boon, the game does not go, ‘oh hes solo so we wont buff 4 people round him’. If you have a 5 man buff, its going to buff you and four other people in range regardless of whether you are partied with them. Infact, last time I looked into it, it was slightly better to be solo, because things like regen and stability then prioritize people that don’t already have them, whereas if you are grouped it goes first to the people in your group that are in range. This is why some squads choose to have heal spec eles in their own group or maybe with one other, so it prioritizes the maximum amount of people needing heal.

Another person who is totally wrong about the mechanics of the game.

If you are not in a squad or party, and you put out a buff, heal, or cleans, it is proximity based. If you are in a party of 5, and your party is within range, it will prioritize your party, no matter who is in between you and your party. If you are in a squad, but not grouped into a sub-squad, i.e. by yourself, then you’re boons, heals, cleanses will prioritize the closest 5 people in the squad, no matter how many non-squad members are in between you and your squad members. The game goes through this check with every skill use. Party > Squad > Pet. Every time.

It doesn’t matter what class you are. WTF is that?

It is never better to be solo, you will get no heals, boons, cleanses. The only ones you get are coming from the closest other players that are not in the squad. And if the squad is nearby, it will go to them too. If that is the case, lets say running around EB with a bunch of idiot pugs who don’t want to be in squad or TS, then there’s a lot of redundancies. Here’s what I mean. Lets say everyone is stacked. There’s an obvious empower call, All the guards start empowering. If there are 3 guards close together. That generates 36 stacks of might to the nearest 5 players. Now, 3 of the guards are getting that and 2 of the closest players. That means there are 9 stacks of might being wasted. This is avoided by having people in squads and parties.

WvW 101.

Spurnshadow.3678:

Celsith.2753:

Jumpin Lumpix.6108:

Celsith.2753:

Jumpin Lumpix.6108:

nottsgman.8206:

you know, you can follow the commander and the zerg without being in the squad, right?

You know that you get way less rewards and wxp when following a commander while not being in squad, right?

Really, I must be doing it wrong. I mostly play gank classes/builds ankitten EVER in the commanders squad when im with the zerg. Nevertheless i’ve maxed out pips within a day both times so far. Here’s how to get contribution:-

For an objective, contribute to a guard or player kill.
For a player, cause damage to the player, or heal/buff someone else that damages them.

That’s it. Neither way is done more easily in a squad than out. The only thing that makes a difference is how well your particular class does aoe damage, healing or buffing. If your single target ‘selfish’ dps you’re going to tag less than a staff ele, for example.

The only disparity is class and honestly, if you choose to play one that doesnt tag well, thats because you just want to play what you personally enjoy rather than optimal farming and that’s a choice we all make.

Your talking about skirmish rewards and pip gain through wvw participation. I’m talking about tagging npc’s and enemy players in order to gain wxp and bags. I’m also talking about how a party/squad impacts a players ability to tag more easily/efficiently then someone outside of a squad/party (solo). – which is true.

Again, its class that makes the difference, not party or squad. If you are solo and put out a boon, the game does not go, ‘oh hes solo so we wont buff 4 people round him’. If you have a 5 man buff, its going to buff you and four other people in range regardless of whether you are partied with them. Infact, last time I looked into it, it was slightly better to be solo, because things like regen and stability then prioritize people that don’t already have them, whereas if you are grouped it goes first to the people in your group that are in range. This is why some squads choose to have heal spec eles in their own group or maybe with one other, so it prioritizes the maximum amount of people needing heal.

Another person who is totally wrong about the mechanics of the game.

If you are not in a squad or party, and you put out a buff, heal, or cleans, it is proximity based. If you are in a party of 5, and your party is within range, it will prioritize your party, no matter who is in between you and your party. If you are in a squad, but not grouped into a sub-squad, i.e. by yourself, then you’re boons, heals, cleanses will prioritize the closest 5 people in the squad, no matter how many non-squad members are in between you and your squad members. The game goes through this check with every skill use. Party > Squad > Pet. Every time.

It doesn’t matter what class you are. WTF is that?

It is never better to be solo, you will get no heals, boons, cleanses. The only ones you get are coming from the closest other players that are not in the squad. And if the squad is nearby, it will go to them too. If that is the case, lets say running around EB with a bunch of idiot pugs who don’t want to be in squad or TS, then there’s a lot of redundancies. Here’s what I mean. Lets say everyone is stacked. There’s an obvious empower call, All the guards start empowering. If there are 3 guards close together. That generates 36 stacks of might to the nearest 5 players. Now, 3 of the guards are getting that and 2 of the closest players. That means there are 9 stacks of might being wasted. This is avoided by having people in squads and parties.

WvW 101.

You realize you just said exactly what I said right? :/ Might stacking is the reason I specified what types of buffs benefit from being spread around rather than just to party.

Since I’m explaining basic mechanics here, I’ve seen a few folks who say if they are not in a squad, they will get healed from aoe heals. This is wrong.

Any ground based, aoe heal still follows the party > squad > pet check, every pulse. Most of the healers are putting their ground based aoe heals in a spot to maximize it’s effectiveness. That means there is most likely going to be 5 squadmates in the aoe every pulse. Even if you are standing right in the middle of the geyser, you will get nothing.

But this is moot as most guilds are opting for more frontline, player based aoe heals or ones that don’t pulse multiple times. For example, auramancers, duids, and tablet revs.

Spurnshadow.3678:

Even if you are standing right in the middle of the geyser, you will get nothing.

Well, that’s why you blast it, no?

Also, overhealing….

Spurnshadow.3678:

It is never better to be solo, you will get no heals, boons, cleanses.

Except that its fairly pointless to send a full 50 man squad to defend a camp being taken over by 1 enemy. I would argue that its better to go there solo or 2 man, on classes and builds thats capable.

But yeah I am out of this argument. I was already infracted for saying meta AH guard is kitten for 2 mans. Suppose Anet has made it clear you can talk about medium classes all you want but shut your mouth about the the guardian. Hm.

Run around kitten talking and simply tagging things while playing a thief, ranger or flamethrower engy and you get known as being useless so will be kicked and people won’t want to play with you.

Play those classes well and be useful, like Sindrener does, and commanders will never discriminate. I don’t know any commander that would kick known players from Cake, Zen, WaVe or known GvG guilds whatever they were playing.

As far as pips acquisition goes, no class is discriminated as it’s based on participation and rank. The easiest way to rank up is to flip sentries, camps and quickly tag a guard or lord when commanders take towers and keeps with boosters so in reality a smart thief worth their salt who isn’t terrible at the game can easy rank up and get tons of loot if they play smart.

mazut.4296:

The difference by just following the commander and be in a squad is pretty big. You don’t get buffs/heals. When you die you don’t get rezzed. You are still helping, because you are eating the damage and with your sacrifice you help the zerg to survive longer and eventually be victorious. But you can’t get loot and you need to run every few mins to rejoin the zerg.
In the end only the most stubborn keep running with the jerks that hate you!

HF playing that way, if you are masochist…

So you say thieves and rangers mitigate damage ?
Good job man
So you say if you are on tag with an thief /ranger with every stack of condi on you and enemy necro use epi on you, you are actualy beeing helpfull ?

Cynz.9437:

With recent changes to wvw, it became clear that classes like guards/war/necro/eles/revs (basically those must have in squad) get advantage over other classes in wvw because they are allowed into squad and allowed to zerg in wvw which allows them to gain ranks/pips faster in wvw. Meanwhile rest of the classes get kicked/forced into roaming due to their class design which results in less rank/pip gains in wvw.
Since wvw community and devs deemed it as fair and logical system i propose that zerg classes (guards, eles and co.) gain less shards/rewards/pips in other game modes (pvp/pve) compared to other classes (engis/druids etc.) to make up for the reward difference.

should those classes be reward more in other game modes? Pve raids? or fractals ?
They should remove extra dodges and stealth from thieves than and rangers

Rayya.2591:

mazut.4296:

The difference by just following the commander and be in a squad is pretty big. You don’t get buffs/heals. When you die you don’t get rezzed. You are still helping, because you are eating the damage and with your sacrifice you help the zerg to survive longer and eventually be victorious. But you can’t get loot and you need to run every few mins to rejoin the zerg.
In the end only the most stubborn keep running with the jerks that hate you!

HF playing that way, if you are masochist…

So you say thieves and rangers mitigate damage ?
Good job man
So you say if you are on tag with an thief /ranger with every stack of condi on you and enemy necro use epi on you, you are actualy beeing helpfull ?

How do you think a thief with every stack of condi on them would survive long enough to be epi’d? I think you’ve lost track of whatever argument you were trying to make in an effort to “be right” here.

The game has basically always been “meta or gtfo” and it ain’t going to change. If you don’t like it, change to a meta class. If you don’t want to change then the problem is on you. Why should those that play the wanted meta classes be punished in other game modes because you want to play your way and that happens to be on an unwanted class?

Besides, anyone playing on a ranger, especially pre-druid, should be use to getting treated like they have the plague anyway.

Jaina Ashlynn.1043:

The game has basically always been “meta or gtfo” and it ain’t going to change. If you don’t like it, change to a meta class. If you don’t want to change then the problem is on you. Why should those that play the wanted meta classes be punished in other game modes because you want to play your way and that happens to be on an unwanted class?

Besides, anyone playing on a ranger, especially pre-druid, should be use to getting treated like they have the plague anyway.

See, for a lot of us that’s just not true. “Meta or gtfo” as you call it is a relatively recent influx, especially to WvW. If you don’t like a perceived change (influx of preachy meta zealots, for PvE we used to call them zerkle jerkers) then why would you abandon your preferred play style to be like them?

Rashagar.8349:

Rayya.2591:

mazut.4296:

The difference by just following the commander and be in a squad is pretty big. You don’t get buffs/heals. When you die you don’t get rezzed. You are still helping, because you are eating the damage and with your sacrifice you help the zerg to survive longer and eventually be victorious. But you can’t get loot and you need to run every few mins to rejoin the zerg.
In the end only the most stubborn keep running with the jerks that hate you!

HF playing that way, if you are masochist…

So you say thieves and rangers mitigate damage ?
Good job man
So you say if you are on tag with an thief /ranger with every stack of condi on you and enemy necro use epi on you, you are actualy beeing helpfull ?

How do you think a thief with every stack of condi on them would survive long enough to be epi’d? I think you’ve lost track of whatever argument you were trying to make in an effort to “be right” here.

he don’t need to survive long enough ( 2 seconds-3 with 20 stacks of burn in a purge bomb ) or 20 stacks of bleeding is enough to punish an entire melee train.
However you start a discution with a flawless argument, are you newcommer from pve? or you some skill clicker necro that don;t know when or what to epi on ?

ArchonWing.9480:

Spurnshadow.3678:

Even if you are standing right in the middle of the geyser, you will get nothing.

Well, that’s why you blast it, no?

Also, overhealing….

Blasting fields also follows the party > squad > pet priority check. You should have known that, Archon.

Rashagar.8349:

Jaina Ashlynn.1043:

The game has basically always been “meta or gtfo” and it ain’t going to change. If you don’t like it, change to a meta class. If you don’t want to change then the problem is on you. Why should those that play the wanted meta classes be punished in other game modes because you want to play your way and that happens to be on an unwanted class?

Besides, anyone playing on a ranger, especially pre-druid, should be use to getting treated like they have the plague anyway.

See, for a lot of us that’s just not true. “Meta or gtfo” as you call it is a relatively recent influx, especially to WvW. If you don’t like a perceived change (influx of preachy meta zealots, for PvE we used to call them zerkle jerkers) then why would you abandon your preferred play style to be like them?

Meta or gtfo has been there from the beginning. Sure, it took a few months to figure things out, but we did in short order. I’d say, even more so the further back you go, as the game used to be much more competitive and consisted of more guild groups that concerned itself more with comp and was more strict with comp than today.

Spurnshadow.3678:

ArchonWing.9480:

Spurnshadow.3678:

Even if you are standing right in the middle of the geyser, you will get nothing.

Well, that’s why you blast it, no?

Also, overhealing….

Blasting fields also follows the party > squad > pet priority check. You should have known that, Archon.

The heal comes from the one doing the finisher. You should have known that, Spurnshadow. And last I heard these things didn’t have a cap on blasting. Perhaps you can enlighten us.

When elementalists cast water fields, the healing done by the actual ele is fairly puny (mostly restricted to their own party yes) compared to the potential of mass blasting water field, which the plebs outside of the squad can do. In practice, it is more than enough to heal everyone in the squad including plebs outside of squad assuming people are awake. The reason you see people out of squad die is because they probably aren’t coordinated to do this or don’t know about it at all. But since I have to type this out, can you blame them?

I think in your zeal though, you have really missed the main point of the discussion. This thread is about non-meta classes not being allowed in squad. All these non-meta classes are generally unable to keep up with the frontline. If they cannot stay within 600 range of the main squad, then whether they are not on squad or not is irrelevant, because the grand majority of boons and heals do not reach them anyways. As a result, people crying about not being allowed in a squad are not going to have any significant boost when it comes to joining a squad or not. You’ve already set your parties to have 5 each so there’s also no chance of boons being “stolen” or misdirected. This is also why it makes no sense to keep these classes in squad if it’s full and you can put another frontline in. It’s not about exclusion. It’s simply about what works.

There’s also no reason to complain about being put in the “extra” party, because again, it doesn’t matter.

In other words, this is a non-issue. You cannot give stability to that pew pew ranger over there even if you tried. So it is a non-issue beyond non-issue You’re basically arguing with people that agree with you anyways, lol.

Rashagar.8349:

Jaina Ashlynn.1043:

The game has basically always been “meta or gtfo” and it ain’t going to change. If you don’t like it, change to a meta class. If you don’t want to change then the problem is on you. Why should those that play the wanted meta classes be punished in other game modes because you want to play your way and that happens to be on an unwanted class?

Besides, anyone playing on a ranger, especially pre-druid, should be use to getting treated like they have the plague anyway.

See, for a lot of us that’s just not true. “Meta or gtfo” as you call it is a relatively recent influx, especially to WvW. If you don’t like a perceived change (influx of preachy meta zealots, for PvE we used to call them zerkle jerkers) then why would you abandon your preferred play style to be like them?

The OP has options…play his way & not get invited in which case he can either tag up or shut up & deal with no squad invite. The other option is to change the play style & run something he might not like. Did you not read the part in the original post about wanting all the typical zerg classes getting punished because he can’t play the way he wants to in WvW? If the OP can’t bother to adapt, why should the rest of the player base suffer for it? I wanted to play my way in dungeons years ago (so much for relatively recent) and guess what..class not wanted & instant kick. Instead of wanting everyone punished for not playing my way, I learned a different class & dealt with it. If the OP wants to take his ball and go home, more power to him….just don’t take my bat when you leave.

ArchonWing.9480:

Spurnshadow.3678:

ArchonWing.9480:

Spurnshadow.3678:

Even if you are standing right in the middle of the geyser, you will get nothing.

Well, that’s why you blast it, no?

Also, overhealing….

Blasting fields also follows the party > squad > pet priority check. You should have known that, Archon.

The heal comes from the one doing the finisher. You should have known that, Spurnshadow. And last I heard these things didn’t have a cap on blasting. Perhaps you can enlighten us.

When elementalists cast water fields, the healing done by the actual ele is fairly puny (mostly restricted to their own party yes) compared to the potential of mass blasting water field, which the plebs outside of the squad can do. In practice, it is more than enough to heal everyone in the squad including plebs outside of squad assuming people are awake. The reason you see people out of squad die is because they probably aren’t coordinated to do this or don’t know about it at all. But since I have to type this out, can you blame them?

I think in your zeal though, you have really missed the main point of the discussion. This thread is about non-meta classes not being allowed in squad. All these non-meta classes are generally unable to keep up with the frontline. If they cannot stay within 600 range of the main squad, then whether they are not on squad or not is irrelevant, because the grand majority of boons and heals do not reach them anyways. As a result, people crying about not being allowed in a squad are not going to have any significant boost when it comes to joining a squad or not. You’ve already set your parties to have 5 each so there’s also no chance of boons being “stolen” or misdirected. This is also why it makes no sense to keep these classes in squad if it’s full and you can put another frontline in. It’s not about exclusion. It’s simply about what works.

There’s also no reason to complain about being put in the “extra” party, because again, it doesn’t matter.

In other words, this is a non-issue. You cannot give stability to that pew pew ranger over there even if you tried. So it is a non-issue beyond non-issue You’re basically arguing with people that agree with you anyways, lol.

Yeah, this is a bit off topic, I just hate seeing bad info being spread around.

So, blasting a water field does have a cap. When you blast a water field, you will only heal yourself and 5 targets that follow the party > squad > pet priority. BTW, the base healing is 1320 (I though it used to be more) + 0.2 multiplier of healing power. Fields also have a limit to how many times they can be blasted: 5 times. This is the same for all fields with the blast combo finisher.

Meta is not recent, unless 2013 is recent. For a good long while GWEN was what you strived for, and then revs were added to the mix. Maybe some of you guys are recent into the game mode, but… yeah, this isn’t new, kids. The freaking endless whining from people about not wanting to adapt and maybe (!!!!!) play something useful instead of trying to pound a square peg into a round hole really is too much. Meta classes are a thing in every game mode; I’m not sure why you’re so surprised your medium armor wearing classes aren’t zerg-friendly.

It is simple. If you want high mobility, high single target dmg and less support, play a roamer profession. If you wanna zerg, play somethin accordingly. This had never been a problem before. I love playing thief and ranger but I know when to play a roamer. Commanders have every right to do so. I never join a squad (really hate zerging) but it is their tag. They have the right to choose. Don’t like it? Well follow someone you like or join a wvw guild. An experienced wvw guild uses every profession well. Some of the guilds I met conatantly uses thieves and rangers to spike down enemy casters.

You can find a solution to this. But you cannot simply expect your profession to be accepted, while others build and gear up specifically for that role.

If you are complaining that your class is discriminated against in WvW, don’t blame the players.

You really need to direct your complaints to the skills balance team, who for some reason think that WvW is PvE, because there are very very very few skill(s)/trait(s) that are specific to WvW.

The problem with skill balancing is that while sPvP is 5v5 with most of it’s engagements are 3v3 or less, and PvE is a team of 5 or 10 against a single or pair of bosses, the rest being “trash mobs”, WvW involves large groups of players, mostly over 10v10. And that’s where certain classes fail to perform.

This is something that the WvW players, who you are directing you anger towards, have talked about in these forums for years.

Spurnshadow.3678:

ArchonWing.9480:

Spurnshadow.3678:

ArchonWing.9480:

Spurnshadow.3678:

Even if you are standing right in the middle of the geyser, you will get nothing.

Well, that’s why you blast it, no?

Also, overhealing….

Blasting fields also follows the party > squad > pet priority check. You should have known that, Archon.

The heal comes from the one doing the finisher. You should have known that, Spurnshadow. And last I heard these things didn’t have a cap on blasting. Perhaps you can enlighten us.

When elementalists cast water fields, the healing done by the actual ele is fairly puny (mostly restricted to their own party yes) compared to the potential of mass blasting water field, which the plebs outside of the squad can do. In practice, it is more than enough to heal everyone in the squad including plebs outside of squad assuming people are awake. The reason you see people out of squad die is because they probably aren’t coordinated to do this or don’t know about it at all. But since I have to type this out, can you blame them?

I think in your zeal though, you have really missed the main point of the discussion. This thread is about non-meta classes not being allowed in squad. All these non-meta classes are generally unable to keep up with the frontline. If they cannot stay within 600 range of the main squad, then whether they are not on squad or not is irrelevant, because the grand majority of boons and heals do not reach them anyways. As a result, people crying about not being allowed in a squad are not going to have any significant boost when it comes to joining a squad or not. You’ve already set your parties to have 5 each so there’s also no chance of boons being “stolen” or misdirected. This is also why it makes no sense to keep these classes in squad if it’s full and you can put another frontline in. It’s not about exclusion. It’s simply about what works.

There’s also no reason to complain about being put in the “extra” party, because again, it doesn’t matter.

In other words, this is a non-issue. You cannot give stability to that pew pew ranger over there even if you tried. So it is a non-issue beyond non-issue You’re basically arguing with people that agree with you anyways, lol.

Yeah, this is a bit off topic, I just hate seeing bad info being spread around.

So, blasting a water field does have a cap. When you blast a water field, you will only heal yourself and 5 targets that follow the party > squad > pet priority. BTW, the base healing is 1320 (I though it used to be more) + 0.2 multiplier of healing power. Fields also have a limit to how many times they can be blasted: 5 times. This is the same for all fields with the blast combo finisher.

That is good to know that a single field can only be blasted so many times.

But with enough water casted, this is generally enough to keep your group topped off alongside other sustain trickles down to the rest of the squad and whoever else left. It is great that the best heals in the game are pulsing. Yes I know it sounds elitist but it works.

Of course pugs still die because they do not know how to regroup like this, aren:t on ts and wear paper gear that doesn’t make good use of heals. This is not to say that it is good to not be in a squad. But you’d agree that people wish to be placed in groups and squads without knowing why? And certainly that is annoying.

I have been bashed before because I don’t “spread” stability to rangers and non melee. So I understand why you would get upset at nonsense. Of, course how does thr lone guardian feel when thry get no stab 2?

Spurnshadow.3678:

Rashagar.8349:

Jaina Ashlynn.1043:

The game has basically always been “meta or gtfo” and it ain’t going to change. If you don’t like it, change to a meta class. If you don’t want to change then the problem is on you. Why should those that play the wanted meta classes be punished in other game modes because you want to play your way and that happens to be on an unwanted class?

Besides, anyone playing on a ranger, especially pre-druid, should be use to getting treated like they have the plague anyway.

See, for a lot of us that’s just not true. “Meta or gtfo” as you call it is a relatively recent influx, especially to WvW. If you don’t like a perceived change (influx of preachy meta zealots, for PvE we used to call them zerkle jerkers) then why would you abandon your preferred play style to be like them?

Meta or gtfo has been there from the beginning. Sure, it took a few months to figure things out, but we did in short order. I’d say, even more so the further back you go, as the game used to be much more competitive and consisted of more guild groups that concerned itself more with comp and was more strict with comp than today.

There’s a distinction between “meta or gtfo is a mind set that has always existed” and “the game has always been meta or gtfo”.
The latter doesn’t take into account the differences between server mind sets, for example. A lot of the low-mid tier servers never cared about meta in wvw. All they cared about was that you were present, and trying.

I mean arguably the game has never been “meta or gtfo”, it’s always just been a small subset of players with that mind set.

Jaina Ashlynn.1043:

Rashagar.8349:

Jaina Ashlynn.1043:

The game has basically always been “meta or gtfo” and it ain’t going to change. If you don’t like it, change to a meta class. If you don’t want to change then the problem is on you. Why should those that play the wanted meta classes be punished in other game modes because you want to play your way and that happens to be on an unwanted class?

Besides, anyone playing on a ranger, especially pre-druid, should be use to getting treated like they have the plague anyway.

See, for a lot of us that’s just not true. “Meta or gtfo” as you call it is a relatively recent influx, especially to WvW. If you don’t like a perceived change (influx of preachy meta zealots, for PvE we used to call them zerkle jerkers) then why would you abandon your preferred play style to be like them?

The OP has options…play his way & not get invited in which case he can either tag up or shut up & deal with no squad invite. The other option is to change the play style & run something he might not like. Did you not read the part in the original post about wanting all the typical zerg classes getting punished because he can’t play the way he wants to in WvW? If the OP can’t bother to adapt, why should the rest of the player base suffer for it? I wanted to play my way in dungeons years ago (so much for relatively recent) and guess what..class not wanted & instant kick. Instead of wanting everyone punished for not playing my way, I learned a different class & dealt with it. If the OP wants to take his ball and go home, more power to him….just don’t take my bat when you leave.

And yes I read the OP but since your comment didn’t quote any other comments to put it in context I just took your’s at face value.

Rayya.2591:

Rashagar.8349:

Rayya.2591:

mazut.4296:

The difference by just following the commander and be in a squad is pretty big. You don’t get buffs/heals. When you die you don’t get rezzed. You are still helping, because you are eating the damage and with your sacrifice you help the zerg to survive longer and eventually be victorious. But you can’t get loot and you need to run every few mins to rejoin the zerg.
In the end only the most stubborn keep running with the jerks that hate you!

HF playing that way, if you are masochist…

So you say thieves and rangers mitigate damage ?
Good job man
So you say if you are on tag with an thief /ranger with every stack of condi on you and enemy necro use epi on you, you are actualy beeing helpfull ?

How do you think a thief with every stack of condi on them would survive long enough to be epi’d? I think you’ve lost track of whatever argument you were trying to make in an effort to “be right” here.

he don’t need to survive long enough ( 2 seconds-3 with 20 stacks of burn in a purge bomb ) or 20 stacks of bleeding is enough to punish an entire melee train.
However you start a discution with a flawless argument, are you newcommer from pve? or you some skill clicker necro that don;t know when or what to epi on ?

Oh, a response I missed. Pity it had such little substance to it. Random meaningless numbers pulled out of the air in a continued effort to try justify your biases mixed with questioning the skill/experience level of anyone who recognises your post as substanceless drivvel.

Disappointing.