I know this would be a big change to some base classes but high speed classes should not be heavy armor wearers or stealthed players. It makes no logical sense and breaks most fantasy conventions. The counter balance to those powerful abilities is speed so pairing them with speed seems very strange. The fact a thief can move faster while stealthed is mind boggling. A fully armored beefy warrior running faster than everyone else… hmmmmm.
How the Ranger class missed out on being the fastest class in WvW is still a mystery to me. The entire history both real and fantasy is about their ability to cover vast amounts of territory quickly. Even more surprising is the fact it has its primary purpose right in its name “range-r”. A common misconception is that it is a ranged attacking class, but it is named after patrolling large territories.
Just some food for thought.
(edited by Straegen.2938)
Word. Word. Word.
(I would have said word once…but there apparently is a 15 Character minimum for posting)
Warrior mobibbleby is pretty crazy.
This again?
A warrior built for mobility has terrible damage output, terrible group support, and terrible everything EXCEPT mobility. If you get killed by one, you weren’t playing well enough, because it is one if the worst builds for combat EVER.
(insert the 500 other reasons from other threads that even the OP posted in and knows off by heart)
By the way, it makes perfect sense for the athlete to outrun a bookworm. Fantasy broken my buttocks. The fantasy would be broken if the bookworm outran the athlete.
/thread
(edited by Realist.5812)
This again?
A warrior built for mobility has terrible damage output, terrible group support, and terrible everything EXCEPT mobility. If you get killed by one, you weren’t playing well enough, because it is one if the worst builds for combat EVER.
(insert the 500 other reasons from other threads that even the OP posted in and knows off by heart)
By the way, it makes perfect sense for the athlete to outrun a bookworm. Fantasy broken my buttocks. The fantasy would be broken if the bookworm outran the athlete.
/thread
Warriors don’t need to be built for mobility to still be faster than most classes. Any warrior with a a sword and an off-hand war horn can outrun most other classes.
I know this would be a big change to some base classes but high speed classes should not be heavy armor wearers or stealthed players. It makes no logical sense and breaks most fantasy conventions. The counter balance to those powerful abilities is speed so pairing them with speed seems very strange. The fact a thief can move faster while stealthed is mind boggling. A fully armored beefy warrior running faster than everyone else… hmmmmm.
How the Ranger class missed out on being the fastest class in WvW is still a mystery to me. The entire history both real and fantasy is about their ability to cover vast amounts of territory quickly. Even more surprising is the fact it has its primary purpose right in its name “range-r”. A common misconception is that it is a ranged attacking class, but it is named after patrolling large territories.
Just some food for thought.
While true you are using reasoning to explain it. That’s the problem, when you consider a giant (think 10 ft tall) is wielding a huge metal sword twice the weight of a human and bringing it down squarely on the head of someone else with no armor except a cloth hood. By your reasoning that should just flat out kill them, but it hits for maybe 10% of their health.
I would agree with your reasoning if they adjusted damage to match. The problem you would have is that those ranged classes, with high speed, would then be unequaled. The warriors armor would be useless because he would just stand there.
It would take Anet completely redoing their balance for classes. High armor would have be a bonus. Now what they could do is just open armor up completely. Any profession could wear any armor class, and then give each armor class basic qualities that affect damage. Something like heavy armor reduces all damage by 45% with 10% damage but you move 20% slower. While medium would reduce all damage by 20% but give a 10% damage boost move at normal speed, and cloth would be a 10% damage bonus but no defense but you move say 20% faster. Then change the speed at which you move based on that.
I realize those numbers are wildly skewed, but it’s just to get the point across.
Ya it doesn’t make sense really. If anything, light armor classes should be given a natural 20% increase in movement speed (not including buffs), medium armor 10%, and heavy armor, no bonus.
Heavy armor classes should not have the ability to leap around and charge forward much like they do now. They have high armor for a reason.. Those abilities should be scrapped and replaced with something more appropriate.
Ya it doesn’t make sense really. If anything, light armor classes should be given a natural 20% increase in movement speed (not including buffs), medium armor 10%, and heavy armor, no bonus.
Heavy armor classes should not have the ability to leap around and charge forward much like they do now. They have high armor for a reason.. Those abilities should be scrapped and replaced with something more appropriate.
It makes perfect sense for an athlete to outrun a bookworm.
The athlete spends his day working out and eating. The bookworm spends his day sitting down in the durmond priory not moving or eating.
If anything, light armour classes should have an inherent -20% movement due to never doing any exercise.
(edited by Realist.5812)
Warriors don’t need to be built for mobility to still be faster than most classes. Any warrior with a a sword and an off-hand war horn can outrun most other classes.
Sure:
- If the necromancer doesn’t use Shroud #2 (shadow step), or interrupt the leaps with fear/chill/immob/cripple
- If the Elementalist doesn’t use shadow step, RTL or the fire charge, or FGS whirl. Not to mention cripples/immobs/chills/interrupts
- If the guardian doesn’t use their shadow steps.
- If the thief doesn’t use their shadow steps or spammable interrupts/immobilize.
- If the mesmer doesn’t use their shadow steps/cripple/immob/interrupts.
- If the ranger doesn’t use their leaps/cripple/chills/immob/interrupts.
- If the engineer doesn’t use their leaps/cripple/chills/immobs/interrupts.
If you chose to run a build that is low on mobility, you WILLINGLY traded mobility for increased damage or healing or support. Case and point.
If you chose to use your important skill cooldowns at non optimal times, that is your mistake. Learn to use them optimally after identifying the enemy build.
A warrior that built for mobility CHOSE to TRADE AWAY damage or healing or support, TO BE MOBILE.
- A hammer/longbow warrior has no mobility.
- A mace+anything/hammer warrior has no mobility
- A mace+anything/rifle warrior has no mobility.
- A axe+anything/hammer warrior has no mobility.
- A axe+anything/rifle warrior has no mobility.
You’re picking out a single build that is BUILT for mobility, and complaining because YOU CHOSE not to build for any mobility yourself.
5 out of the 8 classes have shadow step.
Warrior is not one of them.
Shadow step has no soft or hard counter. You also can’t tell when they’re going to use it, you also cant see the direction they’re going to use it. And when they DO use it, you need to find them again.
Leaps/charges have a HEAP of soft/hard counters:
- Chill (can’t leap/charge as far)
- Cripple (can’t leap/charge as far)
- Immobilize (If applied before, cannot move, if applied during, stops all movement)
- Interrupts (Stops movement) (Fear/daze/stun/knockback, TONNES of RANGED application of these as well)
- And you CAN SEE the direction the warrior is facing BEFORE he uses his skill.
- And you CAN SEE the direction he is moving in when he uses it.
- And you CAN FOLLOW the direction they go in, because unlike shadow steps, your eyes are still on them.
Thief has perma stealth, perma evasion, and heaps of shadow steps. All 3 of these have no soft counter and no hard counter. Whilst they are still doing a plethora of damage/healing/support. Is that not overpowered to you? Biased? Hypocrisy?
Mobility warriors are not broken or overpowered.
They are a weak build.
They are a selfish build.
Yes they can move well, but they are also easily countered.
And you’re just upset because you chose not to bring your own mobility, every class has it. And you chose not to use your important cool downs effectively.
Stop beating this dead horse.
<Insert beating dead horse.gif>
(edited by Realist.5812)
Warriors don’t need to be built for mobility to still be faster than most classes. Any warrior with a a sword and an off-hand war horn can outrun most other classes.
Sure:
- If the necromancer doesn’t use Shroud #2 (shadow step), or interrupt the leaps with fear/chill/immob/cripple
- If the Elementalist doesn’t use shadow step, RTL or the fire charge, or FGS whirl. Not to mention cripples/immobs/chills/interrupts
- If the guardian doesn’t use their shadow steps.
- If the thief doesn’t use their shadow steps or spammable interrupts/immobilize.
- If the mesmer doesn’t use their shadow steps/cripple/immob/interrupts.
- If the ranger doesn’t use their leaps/cripple/chills/immob/interrupts.
- If the engineer doesn’t use their leaps/cripple/chills/immobs/interrupts.
If you chose to run a build that is low on mobility, you WILLINGLY traded mobility for increased damage or healing or support. Case and point.
If you chose to use your important skill cooldowns at non optimal times, that is your mistake. Learn to use them optimally after identifying the enemy build.
A warrior that built for mobility CHOSE to TRADE AWAY damage or healing or support, TO BE MOBILE.
- A hammer/longbow warrior has no mobility.
- A mace+anything/hammer warrior has no mobility
- A mace+anything/rifle warrior has no mobility.
- A axe+anything/hammer warrior has no mobility.
- A axe+anything/rifle warrior has no mobility.You’re picking out a single build that is BUILT for mobility, and complaining because YOU CHOSE not to build for any mobility yourself.
5 out of the 8 classes have shadow step.
Warrior is not one of them.
Shadow step has no soft or hard counter. You also can’t tell when they’re going to use it, you also cant see the direction they’re going to use it. And when they DO use it, you need to find them again.
Leaps/charges have a HEAP of soft/hard counters:
- Chill (can’t leap/charge as far)
- Cripple (can’t leap/charge as far)
- Immobilize (If applied before, cannot move, if applied during, stops all movement)
- Interrupts (Stops movement) (Fear/daze/stun/knockback, TONNES of RANGED application of these as well)
- And you CAN SEE the direction the warrior is facing BEFORE he uses his skill.
- And you CAN SEE the direction he is moving in when he uses it.
- And you CAN FOLLOW the direction they go in, because unlike shadow steps, your eyes are still on them.
Thief has perma stealth, perma evasion, and heaps of shadow steps. All 3 of these have no soft counter and no hard counter. Whilst they are still doing a plethora of damage/healing/support. Is that not overpowered to you? Biased? Hypocrisy?
Mobility warriors are not broken or overpowered.
They are a weak build.
They are a selfish build.
Yes they can move well, but they are also easily countered.
And you’re just upset because you chose not to bring your own mobility, every class has it. And you chose not to use your important cool downs effectively.
Stop beating this dead horse.
<Insert beating dead horse.gif>
Umm…I play a zerker warrior in WvW. He uses GS/sw+axe.
I can outrun pretty much anyone on the planet and still beat the ever living kitten out of other players. So yeah. Not sure what you are getting at here….
Maybe look at gw2’s front page where they explain diff classes…And they say the following about warrior…
Warriors are masters of weaponry who rely on speed, strength, toughness, and heavy armor to survive in battle. Adrenaline fuels their offensive power—the longer warriors stay in a fight, the more dangerous they become.
did you read that.. ? They rely on S P E E D.
So,all is working as intended.
- If the guardian doesn’t use their shadow steps.
Pretty sure Guardians don’t have these ‘shadow steps’ you’re talking about, unless you mean the sword #2 teleport or JI. In fact, Guards are the slowest class, on average, in my opinion.
Umm…I play a zerker warrior in WvW. He uses GS/sw+axe.
I can outrun pretty much anyone on the planet and still beat the ever living kitten out of other players. So yeah. Not sure what you are getting at here….
Zerk thieves also kill noobs easily and struggle against good players, your point?
Pretty sure Guardians don’t have these ‘shadow steps’ you’re talking about, unless you mean the sword #2 teleport or JI.
Sword #2 and Judges Intervention are both shadow steps.
In fact, Guards are the slowest class, on average, in my opinion.
Building for mobility over other aspects is a choice, obviously if you don’t build for it you will be slower. That does not mean guardians are “the slowest, on average”, they’re very fast when they want to be.
any class with protection out-“armors” a warrior. id rather have all classes have easy access to swiftness like warrior warhorn/elite.
snip
And people call me a delusional fanboy????
Pretty sure Guardians don’t have these ‘shadow steps’ you’re talking about, unless you mean the sword #2 teleport or JI.
Sword #2 and Judges Intervention are both shadow steps.
In fact, Guards are the slowest class, on average, in my opinion.
[/quote=4024271;Maerassarth.4710:]
Building for mobility over other aspects is a choice, obviously if you don’t build for it you will be slower. That does not mean guardians are “the slowest, on average”, they’re very fast when they want to be.[/quote]
Ok, I didn’t realise S2 and JI were known as shadow-steps (still fairly new here), so thanks for clarifying that.
Also, are you saying that guards can choose to build for mobility? We can slot Retreat for the swiftness and use Staff #3, as well as using Sword 2 and JI on NPCs to teleport across distances instantly, but that’s about it. Other classes (namely Thief and Warrior) have a multitude of leaps, rushes, shadow steps and teleports that can get them away from zergs with ease…
Nevermind… asjdlkncwasjkdnlwcjankjsdn to fill the 15-character limit
Bah, stupid 15 character limit, I don’t even won’t to post anymore
Edit: ok didn’t realise that the first post went through….
My ?, why didn’t all classes get a passive movement skil?
This again?
A warrior built for mobility has terrible damage output, terrible group support, and terrible everything EXCEPT mobility. If you get killed by one, you weren’t playing well enough, because it is one if the worst builds for combat EVER.
(insert the 500 other reasons from other threads that even the OP posted in and knows off by heart)
By the way, it makes perfect sense for the athlete to outrun a bookworm. Fantasy broken my buttocks. The fantasy would be broken if the bookworm outran the athlete.
/thread
/thread? really?
My sword/shield / longbow warrior with bulls charge would disagree with you – i can fly across the battlefield, tank enormous amounts of damage and destroy multiple opponents.
Warriors don’t need to be built for mobility to still be faster than most classes. Any warrior with a a sword and an off-hand war horn can outrun most other classes.
Sure:
- If the necromancer doesn’t use Shroud #2 (shadow step),
/raises an eyebrow
In all honesty, DS #2 is unreliable. Easily evaded by these warriors. Take a step to the right and it’s evaded.
/two cents on that
Warriors don’t need to be built for mobility to still be faster than most classes. Any warrior with a a sword and an off-hand war horn can outrun most other classes.
Sure:
- If the necromancer doesn’t use Shroud #2 (shadow step),
/raises an eyebrow
In all honesty, DS #2 is unreliable. Easily evaded by these warriors. Take a step to the right and it’s evaded.
/two cents on that
Agree – it’s not a shadowstep. I wish it was… would be great to have a viable disengage on my 2 Necros
It’s an ultra-slow moving projectile that gets blocked by blades of grass or any uneven pathing. The hit rate on this skill is not good… unless the person is right in front of you, you’re probably in for an “obstructed” message.
Ya it doesn’t make sense really. If anything, light armor classes should be given a natural 20% increase in movement speed (not including buffs), medium armor 10%, and heavy armor, no bonus.
Heavy armor classes should not have the ability to leap around and charge forward much like they do now. They have high armor for a reason.. Those abilities should be scrapped and replaced with something more appropriate.
It is incorrect to assume that armour weight should determine speed in gw2. Although it makes sense that a heavily armoured warrior would run slowly than a nature born ranger dressed in leather, gw2 combat involves other game mechanics then speed. That’s also why particular classes don’t have any speed boosts either in traits or utilities.
Stealth and teleports are superior to raw land speed to disengage from combat.
The problem with warrior speed comes from the fact that most of their gap closers are weapon based, have low cooldown in comparison to utilities and don’t require a target to move forward.
No need for a target also means the player doesn’t get into combat when a gap closer is used and is not affected by the combat speed cap.
If some of those skills would require a target to either move forward or to keep same cooldown (just like RLT with longer cd when no target is hit), there would be no issues with warriors zipping away from almost any situation.
Ya it doesn’t make sense really. If anything, light armor classes should be given a natural 20% increase in movement speed (not including buffs), medium armor 10%, and heavy armor, no bonus.
Heavy armor classes should not have the ability to leap around and charge forward much like they do now. They have high armor for a reason.. Those abilities should be scrapped and replaced with something more appropriate.
It makes perfect sense for an athlete to outrun a bookworm.
The athlete spends his day working out and eating. The bookworm spends his day sitting down in the durmond priory not moving or eating.
If anything, light armour classes should have an inherent -20% movement due to never doing any exercise.
I don’t give a kitten how strong you think you are, you can not do maneuvers which would be near impossible due to armor constraints. Heavy armor provided great protection for knights but at the cost of being slower and less maneuverable than a lighter armored opponent. What, do you think if you put an olympic high jumper in a full suit of plate mail armor he could still high jump?
Now I am not saying I agree with the OP completely but your argument is flawed.
I don’t give a kitten how strong you think you are, you can not do maneuvers which would be near impossible due to armor constraints. Heavy armor provided great protection for knights but at the cost of being slower and less maneuverable than a lighter armored opponent. What, do you think if you put an olympic high jumper in a full suit of plate mail armor he could still high jump?
Now I am not saying I agree with the OP completely but your argument is flawed.
Olympic high jumpers don’t train to jump wearing armour.
On the other hand, if someone specifically trained to do so, you would be surprised at what they could achieve. However, there is no practicality for it in modern times.
Most knights were average Joes, they lacked significant food to eat (both quantity and quality), they did not have sports science in those days, and had out-dated smithing techniques and medicine/technology in general. So comparing many hundreds of years ago with what people could achieve today is silly, simply from a technological standpoint.
I also doubt they would of trained specifically to run and jump around, considering they’d be training to stay in formation and utilise group composition. However if they DID train to run/jump around, who knows what they could of achieved.
snip
And people call me a delusional fanboy????
Logic and reasoning =/= fanboyism.
Thanks for the education.
From now on I’ll spout rambling nonsense that has nothing to do with anything and literally makes no sense on any planet in the next 900 galaxies.
(edited by Realist.5812)
My ranger should be able to keep with in bow range of a retreating enemy.
My ranger should be able to keep with in bow range of a retreating enemy.
My ranger should be able to mount a bear/moa and ride on em for added speed bonus. Won’t ever happen, but one can wish
snip
And people call me a delusional fanboy????
Logic and reasoning =/= fanboyism.
Thanks for the education.
From now on I’ll spout rambling nonsense that has nothing to do with anything and literally makes no sense on any planet in the next 900 galaxies.
You’re already doing that, no need to keep it up.
Edit. Knights did train to run and jump while wearing up to 55kg with armor and chainmail, back during the era of the knights in shining armor, formations were a lot loser then during the 19th century, because of the armors motion restrictions.
Knights wearing full armor were often reserved the rich and powerful, these people wore armor so they could protect their pretty faces, not because they were trained from birth to wear it. This is why most of these knights had squires, which was often young boys from the middleclass that were given the honorable job of being his lordships lapdog.
While knights were mostly highborn, one could find armored soldiers outside of the aristocracy. These units mostly belonged to the church or other similar brotherhoods. However unlike knights who mostly rode by horse whenever possible, these units wore a lighter form of armor. Most commonly was scaled mails and thin platemail. To supplement this lighter armors, they often wore thicker leather coats underneath.
The most common medival armor was infact no armor at all, the second most common was a thick leather jacket with or without small metal studs to stop swords from cutting away too much material
(edited by Prysin.8542)
Thor wears heavy armour and he can fly ,run fast, jump and hit like a truck
I don’t give a kitten how strong you think you are, you can not do maneuvers which would be near impossible due to armor constraints. Heavy armor provided great protection for knights but at the cost of being slower and less maneuverable than a lighter armored opponent. What, do you think if you put an olympic high jumper in a full suit of plate mail armor he could still high jump?
Now I am not saying I agree with the OP completely but your argument is flawed.
Olympic high jumpers don’t train to jump wearing armour.
On the other hand, if someone specifically trained to do so, you would be surprised at what they could achieve. However, there is no practicality for it in modern times.
Most knights were average Joes, they lacked significant food to eat (both quantity and quality), they did not have sports science in those days, and had out-dated smithing techniques and medicine/technology in general. So comparing many hundreds of years ago with what people could achieve today is silly, simply from a technological standpoint.
I also doubt they would of trained specifically to run and jump around, considering they’d be training to stay in formation and utilise group composition. However if they DID train to run/jump around, who knows what they could of achieved.
snip
And people call me a delusional fanboy????
Logic and reasoning =/= fanboyism.
Thanks for the education.
From now on I’ll spout rambling nonsense that has nothing to do with anything and literally makes no sense on any planet in the next 900 galaxies.
Are you actually trying to justify warrior’s ridiculous mobility using real life?
It’s a video game.
By that logic, light-armored characters should end up having to pause to catch a breath since they are not used to running long distances. Since well after all they are more mind-based, relying on spells and whatnot. The only profession that could feasible move faster than anyone else would end up being a thief, and they are plenty capable of getting away.
Horse is out of the barn on this one. Best you can do is get plenty of CC to stop those heavies.
However, it would make a great deal of sense to provide some passive ability for a ranger to move faster.
A warrior built for mobility has terrible damage output, terrible group support, and terrible everything EXCEPT mobility. If you get killed by one, you weren’t playing well enough, because it is one if the worst builds for combat EVER.
Warriors with certain weapon sets give up very little in terms of sustained damage output and gain plenty of sustained speed.
Warriors by design should be able to close a gap quickly but they should not have a high sustained speed. My Hammer/GS warrior can pretty much out run 90% or more of the builds in the game in a footrace and while it lacks burst DPS outside of HB the sustained damage is very high. If I decide to run in a fight with my warrior, I can pretty much only be brought down by a minimum of 5 players and they better have a ton of control thanks to the builds high armor/invulns/condi removal. I routinely jump on 3+v1 situations knowing I stand a good chance of killing someone and still be able to reset the fight for more rounds. This is less about my skill and more about the power of warrior mobility.
(edited by Straegen.2938)
Thor wears heavy armour and he can fly ,run fast, jump and hit like a truck
Tyr kicks Thor kitten ,anyday.
Maybe look at gw2’s front page where they explain diff classes…And they say the following about warrior…
Warriors are masters of weaponry who rely on speed, strength, toughness, and heavy armor to survive in battle. Adrenaline fuels their offensive power—the longer warriors stay in a fight, the more dangerous they become.
did you read that.. ? They rely on S P E E D.
So,all is working as intended.
It also says that the Ranger is the “unparalleled archer”…
This again?
A warrior built for mobility has terrible damage output, terrible group support, and terrible everything EXCEPT mobility.
Warrior built for mobility? You mean a warrior that presses 3-5 with greatsword equipped?
As a solo roamer, its disheartening to fight a warrior infront of Red Keep in EB, on the little hilltop infront of the keep. And warriors try to troll with their fear, than get overwhelmed only to easily leap off the cliff into the keep walls and reset the fight. That is just one example, It feels like warriors can just escape any fight they want to, I do not disagree with the idea that players should have those options, but at least make it fair across the board for all classes.
I’d like to fly across the map with my GS too.
Anet decided to throw away the common pool of resource dictating rate of damage ouput and movement restriction to implement ad hoc design of throwing sticky stuffs on the wall to see what would work. The classes will never be balanced in anything. And players will find someway to make lemonade out of a lemon. It’s pointless to say it’s a lemon because it’s a lemon.
(edited by SkyChef.5432)
This again?
A warrior built for mobility has terrible damage output, terrible group support, and terrible everything EXCEPT mobility. If you get killed by one, you weren’t playing well enough, because it is one if the worst builds for combat EVER.
(insert the 500 other reasons from other threads that even the OP posted in and knows off by heart)
By the way, it makes perfect sense for the athlete to outrun a bookworm. Fantasy broken my buttocks. The fantasy would be broken if the bookworm outran the athlete.
/thread
Umm…I play a zerker warrior in WvW. He uses GS/sw+axe.
I can outrun pretty much anyone on the planet and still beat the ever living kitten out of other players. So yeah. Not sure what you are getting at here….
Zerk thieves also kill noobs easily and struggle against good players, your point?
Pretty sure Guardians don’t have these ‘shadow steps’ you’re talking about, unless you mean the sword #2 teleport or JI.
Sword #2 and Judges Intervention are both shadow steps.
In fact, Guards are the slowest class, on average, in my opinion.
Building for mobility over other aspects is a choice, obviously if you don’t build for it you will be slower. That does not mean guardians are “the slowest, on average”, they’re very fast when they want to be.
He’s saying Wars do not have to build around mobility to be faster than most other classes and he’s right. They have gap widening/closing weapon skills with default short CDs on multiple weapons (a large HP pool, those immunities, 24/7 regen and stun breaks don’t hurt either). Some other classes don’t even have sensible options for mobility(looking at you Necro, and my Mes gives up dmg when using Traveler runes).
I have 9 level 80 characters, or all classes, I’ve played them all for many hours in WvW and I know all the movement speed tricks. Warriors are faster over any significant distance. Some classes can move faster for short bursts, but warriors will outrun them over any distance that takes more than a minute to cover. Only a thief has a chance of keeping up, and some warriors can even outrun thieves.
You can list all the skills and traits you like. Many of them are on long cooldowns and/or only provide very short bursts of speed. Warriors have many skills and weapons that provide fast movement on short cooldowns.
This ain’t no dead horse. It’s a doped up derby winner that’s frothing at the mouth.
Umm…I play a zerker warrior in WvW. He uses GS/sw+axe.
I can outrun pretty much anyone on the planet and still beat the ever living kitten out of other players. So yeah. Not sure what you are getting at here….
Zerk thieves also kill noobs easily and struggle against good players, your point?
Pretty sure Guardians don’t have these ‘shadow steps’ you’re talking about, unless you mean the sword #2 teleport or JI.
Sword #2 and Judges Intervention are both shadow steps.
In fact, Guards are the slowest class, on average, in my opinion.
Building for mobility over other aspects is a choice, obviously if you don’t build for it you will be slower. That does not mean guardians are “the slowest, on average”, they’re very fast when they want to be.
He’s saying Wars do not have to build around mobility to be faster than most other classes and he’s right. They have gap widening/closing weapon skills with default short CDs on multiple weapons (a large HP pool, those immunities, 24/7 regen and stun breaks don’t hurt either). Some other classes don’t even have sensible options for mobility(looking at you Necro, and my Mes gives up dmg when using Traveler runes).
If you’re bringing mobility weapons, you’re building for mobility. Not sure why you’re trying to argue otherwise. Guardian and thief have a low cool down shadow step on their swords, so why are you singling out warriors leap? Which as explained above, has significant drawbacks compared to shadow steps.
Also, sword and greatsword have garbage Burst Skills, it’s literally a waste of the class mechanic. Sword and greatsword also have no support or utility, just movement. Facts, this is the drawback for having mobility, terrible Burst Skills and no support/utility.
Also, warrior for the most part, as in the builds most people use, need to be in melee to deal damage. It is hard to stay in melee when the enemy is ranged kiting you in addition to using ranged stuns, ranged knockbacks, ranged chills, ranged cripples, ranged immobilize, ranged fears.
Ranged kiting vs Melee is ridiculously simple in any game where the melee has no ability to gain ground. Hence why warrior has a bit more stability and things like Dogged March, or they would be crapped on all day by ranged kiting simplicity.
I have 9 level 80 characters, or all classes, I’ve played them all for many hours in WvW and I know all the movement speed tricks. Warriors are faster over any significant distance. Some classes can move faster for short bursts, but warriors will outrun them over any distance that takes more than a minute to cover. Only a thief has a chance of keeping up, and some warriors can even outrun thieves.
You can list all the skills and traits you like. Many of them are on long cooldowns and/or only provide very short bursts of speed. Warriors have many skills and weapons that provide fast movement on short cooldowns.
This ain’t no dead horse. It’s a doped up derby winner that’s frothing at the mouth.
Does Axe+Anything/hammer have mobility?
Does Mace+Anything/hammer have mobility?
Does hambow have mobility?
Do any builds not using sword or greatsword have mobility?
NO.
Stop tunnel visioning on ONE BUILD that has plenty of trade offs and drawbacks and generalize it saying that the class has high mobility in EVERY BUILD they play. Thank you.
A warrior bringing ONE of either sword or greatsword is on par with any other class using a shadow step or leap. If a warrior brings both YES he moves far, but he’s now useless in combat against good players.
Key fact: not all warrior builds have mobility. By picking mobility they trade away damage/support/utility. Just like every other class. Well except PU mesmer and thieves.
<insert beating dead horse.gif>
(edited by Realist.5812)
This again?
A warrior built for mobility has terrible damage output, terrible group support, and terrible everything EXCEPT mobility. If you get killed by one, you weren’t playing well enough, because it is one if the worst builds for combat EVER.
(insert the 500 other reasons from other threads that even the OP posted in and knows off by heart)
By the way, it makes perfect sense for the athlete to outrun a bookworm. Fantasy broken my buttocks. The fantasy would be broken if the bookworm outran the athlete.
/thread
Warriors don’t need to be built for mobility to still be faster than most classes. Any warrior with a a sword and an off-hand war horn can outrun most other classes.
Maybe other classes need more swiftness and leaps?
@OP, agree, rangers should be a lot faster, but that doesn’t mean thieves shouldn’t.
In an ideal world where warriors and Guardians are strictly melee. The class speed is correct. Having ranged classes with higher mobility, and ability to CC from range would make it impossible for melee characters to close the gap and land any damage. They would just be kited for days and just drop dead.
What you people are proposing is stupid. Do I think that warrior mobility may be a little over the top sure. But look at the weapons that have mobility guess what they are all melee weapons. That need to have mobility because they are only 130 range.
This is not DD ele with 600 range that think they are melee. 600 range is close range but it aint melee.
People who make ridiculous threads like this and keep repeating this same argument has never tried playing 100% melee and tried to land damage on a kiter.
(edited by Warlord.9074)
In an ideal world where warriors and Guardians are strictly melee. The class speed is correct. Having ranged classes with higher mobility, and ability to CC from range would make it impossible for melee characters to close the gap and land any damage. They would just be kited for days and just drop dead.
What you people are proposing is stupid. Do I think that warrior mobility may be a little over the top sure. But look at the weapons that have mobility guess what they are all melee weapons. That need to have mobility because they are only 130 range.
This is not DD ele with 600 range that think they are melee. 600 range is close range but it aint melee.
People who make ridiculous threads like this and keep repeating this same argument has never tried playing 100% melee and tried to land damage on a kiter.
We have a winner !
This again?
A warrior built for mobility has terrible damage output, terrible group support, and terrible everything EXCEPT mobility. If you get killed by one, you weren’t playing well enough, because it is one if the worst builds for combat EVER.
(insert the 500 other reasons from other threads that even the OP posted in and knows off by heart)
By the way, it makes perfect sense for the athlete to outrun a bookworm. Fantasy broken my buttocks. The fantasy would be broken if the bookworm outran the athlete.
/thread
brb zerker warrior with sword/shield and gs.
brb zerker warrior with sword/shield and gs.
Brb 100b some air (assuming versing non scrub)
In an ideal world where warriors and Guardians are strictly melee. The class speed is correct. Having ranged classes with higher mobility, and ability to CC from range would make it impossible for melee characters to close the gap and land any damage. They would just be kited for days and just drop dead.
What you people are proposing is stupid. Do I think that warrior mobility may be a little over the top sure. But look at the weapons that have mobility guess what they are all melee weapons. That need to have mobility because they are only 130 range.
This is not DD ele with 600 range that think they are melee. 600 range is close range but it aint melee.
People who make ridiculous threads like this and keep repeating this same argument has never tried playing 100% melee and tried to land damage on a kiter.
This ^
Warriors need those leaps and mobility skills to get close and keep close with ranged kiters. Warriors don’t have teleports or pulls or stuff like that, but we do have leaps that gets us close and personal with our target. Because thats where we need to be to do any damage.
Why you see so many yolo warriors in WvW is because in some cases warriors almost only chance to kill a target is to burst it down in really short time span of 10ish seconds. If the warrior didn’t succeed he will die. After that 10 seconds warrior would get crippled, chilled, immobilized and what not to keep him in long distance while the enemy keeps dropping more and more conditions on warrior while warrior is trying to use his leaps which are crippled to maybe 50% efficiency.
For this same reason you keep seeing warriors stack Melandru runes, lemongrass and dogger march. Because warrior needs to be able to keep moving and he or she needs to move fast.
This is an incredibly stupid thread trying to bring real world logic into video game mechanics. You do realize that when you die a friend can simply touch you to bring you back to life or you can misteriously instance rez at some weird portal divide. How about when you are hit in the arm with a sword your arm falls off and you can only use 1 hand. How about those partially covering cloth robe an else wears gives literally no defense instead. The logic is great. I can’t wait for all the fun.
In an ideal world where warriors and Guardians are strictly melee. The class speed is correct. Having ranged classes with higher mobility, and ability to CC from range would make it impossible for melee characters to close the gap and land any damage. They would just be kited for days and just drop dead.
What you people are proposing is stupid. Do I think that warrior mobility may be a little over the top sure. But look at the weapons that have mobility guess what they are all melee weapons. That need to have mobility because they are only 130 range.
This is not DD ele with 600 range that think they are melee. 600 range is close range but it aint melee.
People who make ridiculous threads like this and keep repeating this same argument has never tried playing 100% melee and tried to land damage on a kiter.
This ^
Warriors need those leaps and mobility skills to get close and keep close with ranged kiters. Warriors don’t have teleports or pulls or stuff like that, but we do have leaps that gets us close and personal with our target. Because thats where we need to be to do any damage.
Why you see so many yolo warriors in WvW is because in some cases warriors almost only chance to kill a target is to burst it down in really short time span of 10ish seconds. If the warrior didn’t succeed he will die. After that 10 seconds warrior would get crippled, chilled, immobilized and what not to keep him in long distance while the enemy keeps dropping more and more conditions on warrior while warrior is trying to use his leaps which are crippled to maybe 50% efficiency.
For this same reason you keep seeing warriors stack Melandru runes, lemongrass and dogger march. Because warrior needs to be able to keep moving and he or she needs to move fast.
So, if warriors need superhuman traits in order to close for the kill before getting killed…what does my ranger need? Being medium armor he is mince meat in a couple of chops of a sword (or hammer bashes)…so a close encounter with a heavy does not fair well…I think this post is not about putting reality into a fantasy video game, that’s plain stupid…it’s about fair and equatable balances between professions…currently they are way out of balance.
My ranger should have just as much chance to kill a warrior using my bow. I quote from GW2 Profession description: “Unparalleled archers, rangers are capable of bringing down foes from a distance with their bows.” Yeah, right.
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