Guild Wars 2

Caedmon.6798:

Maybe look at gw2’s front page where they explain diff classes…And they say the following about warrior…

Warriors are masters of weaponry who rely on speed, strength, toughness, and heavy armor to survive in battle. Adrenaline fuels their offensive power—the longer warriors stay in a fight, the more dangerous they become.

did you read that.. ? They rely on S P E E D.
So,all is working as intended.

I then read the Ranger’s description and tears start to form in my eye

I also laugh at the people trying to justify the Warrior’s speed as if the class needed it to maintain melee range.

Lets not forget that on top of having the most mobility in the game the Warrior class also has the best condition clear in the game, a ton of cripples and immobilizes, blanket immunity to conditions, numerous stuns and knockbacks, and still maintains very high burst damage.

Now if the above list started and stopped at mobility maybe posters like Warlord and Paavotar would have a point. But the idea that Warriors have any difficulty getting into melee range and maintaining it and need the mobility they have? Come on…

Paavotar.3971:

Warlord.9074:

In an ideal world where warriors and Guardians are strictly melee. The class speed is correct. Having ranged classes with higher mobility, and ability to CC from range would make it impossible for melee characters to close the gap and land any damage. They would just be kited for days and just drop dead.

What you people are proposing is stupid. Do I think that warrior mobility may be a little over the top sure. But look at the weapons that have mobility guess what they are all melee weapons. That need to have mobility because they are only 130 range.

This is not DD ele with 600 range that think they are melee. 600 range is close range but it aint melee.

People who make ridiculous threads like this and keep repeating this same argument has never tried playing 100% melee and tried to land damage on a kiter.

This ^

Warriors need those leaps and mobility skills to get close and keep close with ranged kiters. Warriors don’t have teleports or pulls or stuff like that, but we do have leaps that gets us close and personal with our target. Because thats where we need to be to do any damage.

Why you see so many yolo warriors in WvW is because in some cases warriors almost only chance to kill a target is to burst it down in really short time span of 10ish seconds. If the warrior didn’t succeed he will die. After that 10 seconds warrior would get crippled, chilled, immobilized and what not to keep him in long distance while the enemy keeps dropping more and more conditions on warrior while warrior is trying to use his leaps which are crippled to maybe 50% efficiency.

For this same reason you keep seeing warriors stack Melandru runes, lemongrass and dogger march. Because warrior needs to be able to keep moving and he or she needs to move fast.

So, if warriors need superhuman traits in order to close for the kill before getting killed…what does my ranger need? Being medium armor he is mince meat in a couple of chops of a sword (or hammer bashes)…so a close encounter with a heavy does not fair well…I think this post is not about putting reality into a fantasy video game, that’s plain stupid…it’s about fair and equatable balances between professions…currently they are way out of balance.

My ranger should have just as much chance to kill a warrior using my bow before he practically teleports to my location.

I quote from GW2 Profession description: “Unparalleled archers, rangers are capable of bringing down foes from a distance with their bows.” Yeah, right.

Atherakhia.4086:

Caedmon.6798:

Maybe look at gw2’s front page where they explain diff classes…And they say the following about warrior…

Warriors are masters of weaponry who rely on speed, strength, toughness, and heavy armor to survive in battle. Adrenaline fuels their offensive power—the longer warriors stay in a fight, the more dangerous they become.

did you read that.. ? They rely on S P E E D.
So,all is working as intended.

I then read the Ranger’s description and tears start to form in my eye

i know right. It is so frustrating and saddening to see how badly anet neglects its own website. Makes me cry huge tears and curl up in a fetal position.

Just have the sword leap, GS 3 and GS 5 require a target. If they are gap “closers” make them that, not escapes.

KittyRiv.5291:

This is an incredibly stupid thread trying to bring real world logic into video game mechanics.

Plenty of video games adhere to these sorts of unwritten guidelines. Stealth is rarely a high speed mechanic in most games. Heavy built warriors are rarely the fastest class in fantasy games. The entire concept of most “medium” armor classes in fantasy games is that they are generally evasive and/or the fastest. In this case we have only one medium armor class that can lay claim to speed and it is a stealth class which is sort of absurd as well.

Realist.5812:

If you’re bringing mobility weapons, you’re building for mobility. Not sure why you’re trying to argue otherwise. Guardian and thief have a low cool down shadow step on their swords, so why are you singling out warriors leap? Which as explained above, has significant drawbacks compared to shadow steps.

I don’t think you know what you are talking about. The warrior sword has an immobilize, cripple, bleeds, leap finisher and a double damage attack in the right scenario and they all cleave for a limited AoE. I won’t argue that its leap isn’t as good as the guardian or thief but those are exceptionally good skills. Coupled with the warrior warhorn and suddenly a warrior can be a healing and condi removing beast with group speed boost, vigor and a blast finisher.

The GS is a great warrior weapon especially coupled to the hammer. HB alone is crap, HB on top of a player that has used their last stun breaker is one of the hardest hitting skills in the game. Paired with Mobile Strikes, trying to hold a warrior in any kind of immobilize is pointless. Rush and Whirlwind are wickedly good skills and even its Bladetrail cripple is good. There is no wasted skill on this weapon actually… everything is good in the right scenario. Mix in Forceful Greatsword and a warrior gets a great might generating engine by simple hitting Whirlwind through a group. Most players cannot run from this single weapon nor can they catch it.

Add in the minor trait Warrior’s Sprint and a melee warrior gets a 25% speed boost without having to add in a signet, wear special runes or use some trick mechanic to keep speed up all the time.

Anet has done a wonderful job on movement capabilities.

Warrior > Lifts all the time so can run very fast. Also does alot of squats so he can savage leap and break bolas with his powerful thighs ( dogged march)

Gaurdian > Doesnt lift as much and reads more books, so slow due to wearing heavy armor.

Elementalist > Doesn’t lift but uses air magic to move.

Thief > Does alot of ninja training and cardio to do backflips and stuff

Ranger > Does alot of cardio and probably trains with animals so good mobility here. Probably does a good amount of squats using logs and probably lifts rocks.

Engineer > Doesnt lift but has rockets to move around. Emergency Edit Probably reads alot also about machines and metals.

Necro > I doubt they lift, but some might get strong from digging up graves or whatever. Also has magic. Probably reads a good amount as well, def reads less than ele imo, but not sure if they read more books than guardians.

Mesmer > Def doesnt lift just practices magic tricks, so they are the slowest class.

Dovgan.8605:

Just have the sword leap, GS 3 and GS 5 require a target. If they are gap “closers” make them that, not escapes.

Even if they made it like that, what’s stopping me from aiming at a bunny far away and hit War GS #5 to get away?

Not to mention that would just limit “smart play”.
I hate having 1500 range and see a warrior go away unkilled as much as everyone else, but I hate nerfs even more than that.

Dean Calaway.9718:

Dovgan.8605:

Just have the sword leap, GS 3 and GS 5 require a target. If they are gap “closers” make them that, not escapes.

Even if they made it like that, what’s stopping me from aiming at a bunny far away and hit War GS #5 to get away?

Not to mention that would just limit “smart play”.
I hate having 1500 range and see a warrior go away unkilled as much as everyone else, but I hate nerfs even more than that.

How is it a nerf making a gap closer work as a gap closer? And nothing would stop you from switching targets to something the opposite direction, but at the very least it would make it less of an issue and slow the straight line escape that it’s being used for currently.

Aurust.8961:

Anet has done a wonderful job on movement capabilities.

Warrior > Lifts all the time so can run very fast. Also does alot of squats so he can savage leap and break bolas with his powerful thighs ( dogged march)

Gaurdian > Doesnt lift as much and reads more books, so slow due to wearing heavy armor.

Elementalist > Doesn’t lift but uses air magic to move.

Thief > Does alot of ninja training and cardio to do backflips and stuff

Ranger > Does alot of cardio and probably trains with animals so good mobility here. Probably does a good amount of squats using logs and probably lifts rocks.

Engineer > Doesnt lift but has rockets to move around. Emergency Edit Probably reads alot also about machines and metals.

Necro > I doubt they lift, but some might get strong from digging up graves or whatever. Also has magic. Probably reads a good amount as well, def reads less than ele imo, but not sure if they read more books than guardians.

Mesmer > Def doesnt lift just practices magic tricks, so they are the slowest class.

Lifting (Muscle Endurance) has nothing to do with Cardio (Cardiovascular Endurance)

Littlefeather.8623:

Aurust.8961:

Anet has done a wonderful job on movement capabilities.

Warrior > Lifts all the time so can run very fast. Also does alot of squats so he can savage leap and break bolas with his powerful thighs ( dogged march)

Gaurdian > Doesnt lift as much and reads more books, so slow due to wearing heavy armor.

Elementalist > Doesn’t lift but uses air magic to move.

Thief > Does alot of ninja training and cardio to do backflips and stuff

Ranger > Does alot of cardio and probably trains with animals so good mobility here. Probably does a good amount of squats using logs and probably lifts rocks.

Engineer > Doesnt lift but has rockets to move around. Emergency Edit Probably reads alot also about machines and metals.

Necro > I doubt they lift, but some might get strong from digging up graves or whatever. Also has magic. Probably reads a good amount as well, def reads less than ele imo, but not sure if they read more books than guardians.

Mesmer > Def doesnt lift just practices magic tricks, so they are the slowest class.

Lifting (Muscle Endurance) has nothing to do with Cardio (Cardiovascular Endurance)

thats why i put savage leap as an example for lifting……. but tbh i think the movement skills are more strength than cardio scenario. I think warriors prolly do alot of cardio anyway.

Sreoom.3690:

So, if warriors need superhuman traits in order to close for the kill before getting killed…what does my ranger need? Being medium armor he is mince meat in a couple of chops of a sword (or hammer bashes)…so a close encounter with a heavy does not fair well….it’s about fair and equatable balances between professions…currently they are way out of balance.

Granted the ranger class sucks, it still has: lots of Protection Boon, lots of Vigor boon, ‘evasion’ skills, 2 invulnerability utilities, and some others I can’t think if right now. Thief/guardian can LITERALLY jump on top of you with shadow steps, at least you can counter the warriors movement skills as detailed in a previous post.

Littlefeather.8623:

Lifting (Muscle Endurance) has nothing to do with Cardio (Cardiovascular Endurance)

Actually they go hand in hand. In both sprints and long distance one cannot work without the other. Repeatedly sprinting requires high endurance in both areas.

Muscular strength (different to endurance) on the other hand is of low importance in running.

Straegen.2938:

Add in the minor trait Warrior’s Sprint and a melee warrior gets a 25% speed boost without having to add in a signet, wear special runes or use some trick mechanic to keep speed up all the time.

Wtf? It’s a trait. It isn’t free. They have to sacrifice better traits in order to have it. It takes up a trait slot. Just the same as a signet taking up a utility slot, runes taking up rune slots, or swiftness on a weapon skill. Sacrifices have to be made in all scenarios if you want to move better.

It is posts like this that show this topic is not about logic and balance, but subjective bias.

ITT: Warriors weapon gap closers still not nerfed like ele’s Ride the Lightning.

Where is this weird idea coming from that magic users spend all their time sitting around reading?

The magic users in this game can cast while running, and do dodge rolls that would probably injure most people posting in this thread.

Making the mobility warrior (aka double melee) slower would make it the weakest class in the game. It would be like a guardian without protection and mutiple ways to heal. To be so mobile the warrior has to run double melee weapons. That means to attack you he has to come at you. He can’t run away and attack like an engi or mesmer. He can’t disapear and run away like a mesmer or thief. He can only run away in your face while not attacking/not attributing to the fight.

I’m sorry to the op who has to watch a warrior come in and smash and then watch him leave as opposed to thieves/mesmers that come in and then stealth and leave. This is really the only difference that I see here. The actual ability to see warrior players escape is enraging people so much that they are complaining more about it than the class mechanic that allows people to disapear in their faces and have the target dropped from them.

kRAVen.4195:

Making the mobility warrior (aka double melee) slower would make it the weakest class in the game. It would be like a guardian without protection and mutiple ways to heal. To be so mobile the warrior has to run double melee weapons. That means to attack you he has to come at you. He can’t run away and attack like an engi or mesmer. He can’t disapear and run away like a mesmer or thief. He can only run away in your face while not attacking/not attributing to the fight.

I’m sorry to the op who has to watch a warrior come in and smash and then watch him leave as opposed to thieves/mesmers that come in and then stealth and leave. This is really the only difference that I see here. The actual ability to see warrior players escape is enraging people so much that they are complaining more about it than the class mechanic that allows people to disapear in their faces and have the target dropped from them.

Would just like to quickly point out a “double melee” warrior doesn’t mean they’re using sword and greatsword. There is also axe, mace and hammer in the warriors bag of tricks. And those have no mobility at all.

The rest is also a logical post, so the warrior haters will be enraged by it.

I think GW1 had a scheme that made more sense.
Warriors were endurance runners: Rush, Sprint,
Rangers were a more agile middle ground: Dodge, Natural Stride
Assassins moved in short bursts/teleports: Dash, Shadow Prison

Warrior movement does need a nerf, mostly, the distance of the leaps/charges should be reduced -slightly- and their cooldowns (mostly GS weapon skills) increased -very slightly-.

In the case of the warrior, its movement need only a careful shave. Very careful infact.

Rangers are, almost good in that same regard. It needs some changes to its weapon skills, but nothing massive.

My own suggestions;
Serpent’s Strike;
Current animation – evading to the right in a large flanking movement.
Suggested Change – a series forward flips moving in a high arc towards it’s target.
This would give rangers a evading skill, that can also be used to move about.

Rangers also need a trait that gives them higher movement speed while using bows. Preferably this could be merged with Quick Shot in the Skirmishing line.

Rangers could also use a skill/trait giving them the “Haste” buff that eles can get.

Thief movement speed buff in stealth – nerfed from 50%+ to 33%+, non-stacking ofc. Basically, it would be there only keep up with the enemy, not outrun anything in existence.

Gibson.4036:

Where is this weird idea coming from that magic users spend all their time sitting around reading?

The magic users in this game can cast while running, and do dodge rolls that would probably injure most people posting in this thread.

The difference is, in the extreme case of a warrior for example, time was spent to learn spells. The amount of time is uncertain, but a warrior by contrast has spent their whole lives training martially with heavy armor and weapons, a fully physical class without any means to access magic (Signets are a whole other level in the Guild Wars lore, you can go look them up yourself).

That’s what enables them to move as they are able.

Guardians had to spend time mastering a different sort of magic than elementalists or mesmers, I admit it might be harder to determine how they can do spells and wield heavy armor, but perhaps that is why they can’t really do any spectacular movements, and often when they need to move faster, they use magic to help themselves.

I don’t think I need to examine why thieves are capable of their movements.

Rangers are also athletic and have developed a supernatural relationship with nature and their animal companions.

Pretty much, I find Guardians harder to validate how they can still dodge in their heavy armor than Warriors. Going to go with…magic!

Looking at ranged vs melee in purely a speed vs speed context is a pretty ludicrous thing to do.
Now if you posted a video of you doing good rotations vs some classes, then your average reply would be of a lot higher quality.
Looking at rotations takes into account leaps, soft/hard cc, stunbreakers, and all that.
While I want to agree with you, there is just no way.

sword/GS rangers with lightning reflexes actually have insane mobility

Paavotar.3971:

Warlord.9074:

In an ideal world where warriors and Guardians are strictly melee. The class speed is correct. Having ranged classes with higher mobility, and ability to CC from range would make it impossible for melee characters to close the gap and land any damage. They would just be kited for days and just drop dead.

What you people are proposing is stupid. Do I think that warrior mobility may be a little over the top sure. But look at the weapons that have mobility guess what they are all melee weapons. That need to have mobility because they are only 130 range.

This is not DD ele with 600 range that think they are melee. 600 range is close range but it aint melee.

People who make ridiculous threads like this and keep repeating this same argument has never tried playing 100% melee and tried to land damage on a kiter.

This ^

Warriors need those leaps and mobility skills to get close and keep close with ranged kiters. Warriors don’t have teleports or pulls or stuff like that, but we do have leaps that gets us close and personal with our target. Because thats where we need to be to do any damage.

Why you see so many yolo warriors in WvW is because in some cases warriors almost only chance to kill a target is to burst it down in really short time span of 10ish seconds. If the warrior didn’t succeed he will die. After that 10 seconds warrior would get crippled, chilled, immobilized and what not to keep him in long distance while the enemy keeps dropping more and more conditions on warrior while warrior is trying to use his leaps which are crippled to maybe 50% efficiency.

For this same reason you keep seeing warriors stack Melandru runes, lemongrass and dogger march. Because warrior needs to be able to keep moving and he or she needs to move fast.

Very true. Thing is, the skills offer same speed at same cooldowns when they are used to run away and they don’t need a target. As long as this remains as it is, other classes will complain about warriors’ speed when running away. These complaints are not “oh, we were fighting and I couldn’t kite him well cos he kept spamming gs skills to stay on me all the time”. Pretty much any response from another warrior mentions combat need for gap closers but that’s not what other classes complain about.

Realist.5812:

This again?

A warrior built for mobility has terrible damage output, terrible group support, and terrible everything EXCEPT mobility. If you get killed by one, you weren’t playing well enough, because it is one if the worst builds for combat EVER.

(insert the 500 other reasons from other threads that even the OP posted in and knows off by heart)

By the way, it makes perfect sense for the athlete to outrun a bookworm. Fantasy broken my buttocks. The fantasy would be broken if the bookworm outran the athlete.

/thread

No one even mentioned the poor mesmer =/ the only form of swiftness for a mesmer is if you equip a focus in your off hand, gives about 13 seconds of swiftness and has a 20-25 second cool down. Besides that the only gap closing skill is blink with a 30 second cool down and range of 900-1200. I mean sure it does have some stealth and clones, but those skills take up slots, you want more stealth, good bye condi clearing. It all has a trade off, but all in all, good luck to a mesmer who’s trying to run away!

Warriors and Thieves are the undoubted kings of mobility in the game. You know in solo play or even in small group play, the first thing the Warrior’s gonna be doing is twirling away into the distance as soon as you get him low, the first thing the Thief’s gonna be doing is dropping his shadow refuge as soon as you get him low. Or falling over every couple of seconds within his smoke field in order to become invisible, or swapping to Shortbow and shadowstepping away, or popping that skill whatever it is that randomly shadowsteps them back to spawn.

Alright that was pretty much hyperbole, however yes those are mostly givens. I get some decent movement with my Sword Tele, my GS leap and my 1/3 or so uptime on swiftness, but nothing like what they get. I myself wouldn’t complain much, as I count it as nature that those things will happen, whether they should, idk, but there doesn’t seem to be much else going for Warrior atm with Solo and smallscale, their sustain isn’t all that impressive, unless you hit like a wet fish, their damage can hurt but if you know what you’re doing it’s easy to avoid and easy to counter.

As for other classes mobility there are 3 main types, Leaps, Teleports and Rushes, the last being the least occurring. Leaps are good for getting over gaps, Ogrewatch hill → Ogres Merc camp being a prime example. Teleports are good for covering elevation, Anza ditch to the rise above if you target the wall. Rushes just push you forwards. Not much huge about them, except the range on Warrior GS #5 is notably large when you use swiftness. Teles are generally 600 range, bigger ones have longer cooldowns but can span to 1,200 range. Leaps are generally 900, Ranger GS #3 can go further but it’s a bit gimmicky, and not really that helpful considering the run-up impairs you from some leaps and gives more time in which to be CC’d. Targeted Teles are harder to use than ground-target ones, however once you get the hang of it they can be quite useful. Each increases distance with swiftness, decreases distance apart from Tele with slows, and decreases when in combat as opposed to out. One example is you can make Anza Hill → Keep ‘wall’ naturally if you are out of combat and have swiftness on your leap.

I don’t really know why I started saying all of that, perhaps to spread knowledge to everyone; in any case every character has a couple of these, except Necro and Mesmer, who have no leaps, Mesmer has 1 tele, neither have rushes. Necro is probably the most immobile class, although you can counter it with Locust Signet, often you’d rather take something else. In any case Warrior and Thief have the most movement skills on the shortest cooldowns, so you will often see them able to escape anything that doesn’t go their way. And don’t forget that Adrenal on Hammer, 900 range ground targeted leap pretty much. Melee classes need gap closers, as much as ‘ranged’ classes need the same for evasion.