Guild Wars 2

ITT I’m going to whine about various aspects of classes I consider OP or UP.

1. Warriors – Much has been said about Warriors and most is true. They are the fastest class in game, spam constant AoE CC and are by far the most useful class in large scale fights next to Guardians. No wonder most guilds and even random Pugs have pushed more and more of their members to re-roll Warriors. And why would they not? What role in large scale fights is not best filled by a Warrior? You can never have enough.

2. Guardians – Are the back-bone of zergs, just like Warriors. Their usefulness comes mainly from their support, not their actual skills. Just like Warriors they carry your zerg and have great skills (like Barrier and pull) to support it. Not really OP, but maybe a little too useful if you look at what little other classes bring to the table.

3. Necromancers – They get to bake the cake and eat it. 50k EHP, Stability , AoE and frequent CC….what more could a class possibly want? The most overpowered aspect though is undoubtedly the Dhuumfire condition build. A quick Terror followed by a Signet of Spite and it’s game over for almost every class. 3 seconds with your pants down and you’re dead. Great design, right there. So skillful…so fair, so much counter-play. Not even WoW was that bad with its Fear spam.

At least Warriors were up in your face with some fairly telegraphed moves before they CC-chained you to death.

4. Thief – High-risk/reward class when solo or in small groups and can be really frustrating to play against. It seems like a class built for griefing. I would complain about them more but in large scale combat often not more than a rally-bot for the enemy. With no Stability or Protection they die rally, really easily to random AoE damage. No wonder most of them get their kicks out of roaming, trolling and harassing. What else can they do?

5. Rangers – It seems like Rangers are the reversal of Necros in WvW. In sPvP, Necros are tough but manageable, while in WvW their Dhuumfire build is the epitome of opness. In sPvP Rangers are really, really strong but in WvW most seem to be fairly easy kills. While they don’t contribute greatly to zerg fights at least they have a good range and don’t serve as a rally bot.

6. Mesmer – “Let’s give all the amazing support skills to a single class” must have been a train of thought when designing the Mesmer. Maybe it was bias for it being an original “Guild Wars” class or maybe they designed it last, idk. Anyway somehow the clkitten up with most of the best support skills in game while many others have none. Again, it’s the support skills that carry the Mesmer in zerg fights. Their personal contribution is often very little. Their highlight is probably those few seconds they get to place Nullfield or Veil and the commence to create a lightshow that does nothing except ruins people’s PC performance. Seriously, without and Mesmers I think Guild Wars 2 would have to render 30% less effects and player-models.

In contrast, their popular solo build is a broken stealth-spam build. People complained about stealth-spaming Thieves, but at least that was only one thing to track. A Mesmer can spam stealth equally while hiding behind his Illusions and having his Phantasms eat away at you. Probably the most ridiculous small-scale class after the Necro but at least you can just run away from them if you don’t want to fight them for 15 minutes.

7. Elementalist – Don’t really have strong feelings about Elementalists any more. They used to be the gods of WvW a year ago but now they’re just average. Maybe they’re a good model to follow for other classes. Their moves are well-telegraphed, their builds make trade-offs. For every bit of offense they take they give up a tangible amount of defense. They can contribute to zergs and small scale fights, without carrying either. The only build I feel that breaks this otherwise balanced class is the combination of tanky builds with Conjured Weapons. The amount of pressure and sustain that can be combined in such a way is outside of the standard balance spectrum.

8. Engineer – The wildcard of classes. I’ve seen Engineers I’d consider greatly overpowered, mostly the tanky builds with lots of condition pressure. But for every such Engineer I encounter 5 others that put up reasonable fights without feeling overpowered. The high-pressure builds give up a fair amount of survivability to do so so I think, aside from the aforementioned bunker + condition spam build, that the class is fairly well-rounded.

Dee Jay.2460:

ITT I’m going to whine about various aspects of classes I consider OP or UP.

3. Necromancers – They get to bake the cake and eat it. 50k EHP, Stability , AoE and frequent CC….what more could a class possibly want? The most overpowered aspect though is undoubtedly the Dhuumfire condition build. A quick Terror followed by a Singet of Maliceand it’s game over for almost every class. 3 seconds with your pants down and you’re dead. Great design, right there. So skillful…so fair, so much counter-play. Not even WoW was that bad with its Fear spam.

A necro with Signet of Malice? That’s a neat trick.

Please play a necro in wvw then come talk to us. Stability can be attained only though elites (no access to healing, utilities etc), 30 points into soul reaping with foot in the grave, and/or 1 second on well of power (cannot use in plague form or lich form or death shroud). You cannot escape AT ALL when you are outnumbered you are left with no other option than kill or be killed. I will admit that the dumbfire was a bad move for a class that was suppose to be attrition, but that particular build is not the good for survivability. When you cannot get away you had better be tough enough to survive more than what that build offers.

Oh and as the previous poster has said, signet of malice does not exist on the gw2 necro. Oh and if you are getting your kitten handed to you in 3 seconds by any class maybe learn to use a bit of vitality and/or toughness with your build. I hear there even foods that can reduce condi duration by up to 40%. I laugh at most necro’s since I switched to a warrior shouts heal build/soldier rune that can actually escape when needed.

Edt: I see you changed it to signet of sprite, to which I still repeat get some protection, and the big bad necro will become a minor annoyance.

Eles are just plain bad these days IMO. Combo field bots. Much maligned like mesmers. But at least mezes are good in a duel. And eles can’t switch out the staff when ganked. I’ve never understood how a class can be designed with the least HPs and armor but not hit like a freight train or zip around the battle field like Roadrunner on steroids.

I would rank Ele’s higher in a zerg than Mesmer’s. A zerg only needs 1 or 2 Mesmer’s. Ele AOE is much better for backline.

Xavi.6591:

I would rank Ele’s higher in a zerg than Mesmer’s. A zerg only needs 1 or 2 Mesmer’s. Ele AOE is much better for backline.

I would hope he wasn’t actively numbering these classes in overall worth. I can’t imagine in what world anyone would rank an Engineer, Thief, and Ranger as anything but 6th, 7th, and 8th.

Most rangers you meet in WvW are using PvE armor/playstyle. The really good ones are far between, and is overshadowed by the sheer number of bad rangers.

Warriors are not the fastest, that is the thief. Simply because you can hit a warrior with a Ranger LB/Engi Rifle/Thief F2 and keep them in combat speed. Thieves just go invis and can leap across the map in no time at all.

nikitnq.7143:

Eles are just plain bad these days IMO. Combo field bots. Much maligned like mesmers. But at least mezes are good in a duel. And eles can’t switch out the staff when ganked. I’ve never understood how a class can be designed with the least HPs and armor but not hit like a freight train or zip around the battle field like Roadrunner on steroids.

My ele hits like a freight train :/ And barring getting focused I survive in both zergs and small groups while playing staff. I mained a SF ele in GW1 (only time I was afraid of rangers, eff the Luxons) and I think the Ele is fantastic. I can understand why people playing ele for a long time feel bad about it, but having just started playing it I am pretty happy.

Dee Jay.2460:

3. Necromancers – They get to bake the cake and eat it. 50k EHP, Stability , AoE and frequent CC….what more could a class possibly want? The most overpowered aspect though is undoubtedly the Dhuumfire condition build. A quick Terror followed by a Signet of Spite and it’s game over for almost every class. 3 seconds with your pants down and you’re dead. Great design, right there. So skillful…so fair, so much counter-play. Not even WoW was that bad with its Fear spam.

At least Warriors were up in your face with some fairly telegraphed moves before they CC-chained you to death.

Right Stability wise we have three options, 2 of which suck. 3 seconds of stability for 30 trait points? No thanks. Then we have Elites and one well. Not exactly alot now is it. The well is decent at best, about 5 seconds of stability on a 50 second cool down, still nothing amazing.

50k Health? No where near on most builds, unless you are BUILDING for Vit in which case you SHOULD have a lot. Don’t forget in DS we are locked out of EVERYTHING and given average skills, The Auto attack requires traits to make it any good, Dark Path is bugged to hell and rarely works. Doom is pretty much our ONLY defense inside it and works on ONE person and can be blinded or negated with several skills. Life transfer is solid in groups but weak in solo fights and the same goes for Tainted Shackles

I think you will find most Necroamncers didnt even WANT Dhuumfire. We asked for survivability and we got that, not our fault – blame Anet. Pretty much all classes come with some form of defense against conditions be it traits, skills, heals or what ever and add the fact that pretty much everyone can now run condition builds that the nerfs that have hit Necromancers conditions.

Every condition build of classes is overpowered. Not just Necromancer.

Dee Jay.2460:

6. Mesmer – “Let’s give all the amazing support skills to a single class” must have been a train of thought when designing the Mesmer. Maybe it was bias for it being an original “Guild Wars” class or maybe they designed it last, idk. Anyway somehow the clkitten up with most of the best support skills in game while many others have none. Again, it’s the support skills that carry the Mesmer in zerg fights. Their personal contribution is often very little. Their highlight is probably those few seconds they get to place Nullfield or Veil and the commence to create a lightshow that does nothing except ruins people’s PC performance. Seriously, without and Mesmers I think Guild Wars 2 would have to render 30% less effects and player-models.

In contrast, their popular solo build is a broken stealth-spam build. People complained about stealth-spaming Thieves, but at least that was only one thing to track. A Mesmer can spam stealth equally while hiding behind his Illusions and having his Phantasms eat away at you. Probably the most ridiculous small-scale class after the Necro but at least you can just run away from them if you don’t want to fight them for 15 minutes.

Yeah because Mesmer has SO mnay useful skills, is that why they are pretty much taken for TWO skills being Portal and Time Warp. They have some other great skills such as Feedback and such but rather than being a noob and continuing to attack…move out of the bad area and boom all the damage it COULD have done is negated shock they just wasted a 40second cool down skill.

Yet again no idea what you are talking about (Just like your Necro stuff) Mesmer has at MOST 17 seconds at the cost of: 30 second cool down Torch Skill, 40second cool down Utility, 90 second cool down utility and 90 second elite. So where is this “stealth spam” coming from, once they have blazed through that they are going to be dead.

Comparing Mesmer Stealth to Thief Stealth? Really? Just really!? yeah 17 seconds of Stealth using 4 skills with a min cool down of 30 seconds is EXACTLY the same as a class with a mechanic where they CAN spam stealth – i suggest you learn what spam is.

Dee Jay.2460:

7. Elementalist – Don’t really have strong feelings about Elementalists any more. They used to be the gods of WvW a year ago but now they’re just average. Maybe they’re a good model to follow for other classes. Their moves are well-telegraphed, their builds make trade-offs. For every bit of offense they take they give up a tangible amount of defense. They can contribute to zergs and small scale fights, without carrying either. The only build I feel that breaks this otherwise balanced class is the combination of tanky builds with Conjured Weapons. The amount of pressure and sustain that can be combined in such a way is outside of the standard balance spectrum.

Seems like you don’t know much about Staff Eles.

Static fields, Meteor range bombs, Tornado (highly underrated), water fields, etc. They are just a huge bag of tricks.

Dee Jay.2460:

3. Necromancers – They get to bake the cake and eat it. 50k EHP, Stability , AoE and frequent CC….what more could a class possibly want? The most overpowered aspect though is undoubtedly the Dhuumfire condition build. A quick Terror followed by a Signet of Spite and it’s game over for almost every class. 3 seconds with your pants down and you’re dead. Great design, right there. So skillful…so fair, so much counter-play. Not even WoW was that bad with its Fear spam.

Well, there is a counter build (or trait) now for condi necros.
With elemetalist´s XI earth trait (“Diamond Skin”) condi necros are just victims, who can do (nearly) nothing against you in a 1v1.
Wether WvW oder sPvP I have killed many necros in the last days without getting any damage from them- Before the last patch most of the time they would have killed me.
Don´t have to say, some necros accused me of “hacking”, because they are not used to be victims with their meta builds and don´t bother reading patch notes either.

nikitnq.7143:

Eles are just plain bad these days IMO. Combo field bots. Much maligned like mesmers. But at least mezes are good in a duel. And eles can’t switch out the staff when ganked. I’ve never understood how a class can be designed with the least HPs and armor but not hit like a freight train or zip around the battle field like Roadrunner on steroids.

I recommend you try a hybrid aura share D/D build, if you have not yet. While the best build for it has been broken by moving Elemetal Attunement to Master, it still works, is fun to play and contributes to a zerg or small group. This kind of a build goes very well with the Superior Rune of the Earth, for it has a bonus “oh sh..” Magntic Aura.

You don´t see aura builds very often – At least I don´t – While they are really powerfull, if you know how to use them.

Also IMO Mesmers are only good in duells, when they are specced to be. A Glamour Mesmer for example is an easy kill for most classes.

btw.:
In beta Eles used to put out an insane amount of damage. That´s why I rolled one as my main – what a rude awakening

Eles need 3 improvements

*1 – Their RTL. The RTL Cool down timer is acceptable if their range is shifted back from 900 to 1500

*2- Powerful Auras need a boost to allies. i.e. 8 allies.

*3- Elemental attuenment needs radius increased as well. 360 at the least

Fuzzion.2504:

Eles need 3 improvements

*1 – Their RTL. The RTL Cool down timer is acceptable if their range is shifted back from 900 to 1500

*2- Powerful Auras need a boost to allies. i.e. 8 allies.

*3- Elemental attuenment needs radius increased as well. 360 at the least

Aura Share, Venom Share and Spirit buffs should all be raised to 10 allies. Simply because in their current state, all these “party buffs” are rather mediocre compared to what others bring. However Aura’s, Venoms and Spirit buffs are very strong, just not useful in their current state

Only a necro with guard stacks and in full soldiers or dire gear will get close to 50k EHP, while most are at much less. They also don’t have any crazy get away skills like almost every other class but guardians have, and are relatively slow. Their only defense is a good offense, really, and you wildly overstate the stability access. Most necros can’t get the trait and it only comes through elites otherwise.

They are still strong in wvw despite that but you seem pretty upset about them.

ArmageddonAsh.6430:

Dee Jay.2460:

3. Necromancers – They get to bake the cake and eat it. 50k EHP, Stability , AoE and frequent CC….what more could a class possibly want? The most overpowered aspect though is undoubtedly the Dhuumfire condition build. A quick Terror followed by a Signet of Spite and it’s game over for almost every class. 3 seconds with your pants down and you’re dead. Great design, right there. So skillful…so fair, so much counter-play. Not even WoW was that bad with its Fear spam.

At least Warriors were up in your face with some fairly telegraphed moves before they CC-chained you to death.

Right Stability wise we have three options, 2 of which suck. 3 seconds of stability for 30 trait points? No thanks. Then we have Elites and one well. Not exactly alot now is it. The well is decent at best, about 5 seconds of stability on a 50 second cool down, still nothing amazing.

50k Health? No where near on most builds, unless you are BUILDING for Vit in which case you SHOULD have a lot. Don’t forget in DS we are locked out of EVERYTHING and given average skills, The Auto attack requires traits to make it any good, Dark Path is bugged to hell and rarely works. Doom is pretty much our ONLY defense inside it and works on ONE person and can be blinded or negated with several skills. Life transfer is solid in groups but weak in solo fights and the same goes for Tainted Shackles

I think you will find most Necroamncers didnt even WANT Dhuumfire. We asked for survivability and we got that, not our fault – blame Anet. Pretty much all classes come with some form of defense against conditions be it traits, skills, heals or what ever and add the fact that pretty much everyone can now run condition builds that the nerfs that have hit Necromancers conditions.

Every condition build of classes is overpowered. Not just Necromancer.

Dee Jay.2460:

6. Mesmer – “Let’s give all the amazing support skills to a single class” must have been a train of thought when designing the Mesmer. Maybe it was bias for it being an original “Guild Wars” class or maybe they designed it last, idk. Anyway somehow the clkitten up with most of the best support skills in game while many others have none. Again, it’s the support skills that carry the Mesmer in zerg fights. Their personal contribution is often very little. Their highlight is probably those few seconds they get to place Nullfield or Veil and the commence to create a lightshow that does nothing except ruins people’s PC performance. Seriously, without and Mesmers I think Guild Wars 2 would have to render 30% less effects and player-models.

In contrast, their popular solo build is a broken stealth-spam build. People complained about stealth-spaming Thieves, but at least that was only one thing to track. A Mesmer can spam stealth equally while hiding behind his Illusions and having his Phantasms eat away at you. Probably the most ridiculous small-scale class after the Necro but at least you can just run away from them if you don’t want to fight them for 15 minutes.

Yeah because Mesmer has SO mnay useful skills, is that why they are pretty much taken for TWO skills being Portal and Time Warp. They have some other great skills such as Feedback and such but rather than being a noob and continuing to attack…move out of the bad area and boom all the damage it COULD have done is negated shock they just wasted a 40second cool down skill.

Yet again no idea what you are talking about (Just like your Necro stuff) Mesmer has at MOST 17 seconds at the cost of: 30 second cool down Torch Skill, 40second cool down Utility, 90 second cool down utility and 90 second elite. So where is this “stealth spam” coming from, once they have blazed through that they are going to be dead.

Comparing Mesmer Stealth to Thief Stealth? Really? Just really!? yeah 17 seconds of Stealth using 4 skills with a min cool down of 30 seconds is EXACTLY the same as a class with a mechanic where they CAN spam stealth – i suggest you learn what spam is.

Not every class is overpowered with condition builds. Before the Necromancer buff patch everyone complained conditions were useless yet suddenly only Necromancer gets buffed and now your saying condition Guardian is overpowered. Plus Necromancer with full Death Shroud has a base of around 36k hp not counting degen or using Plague or Lich form which triples and double your life for the duration. Power Necromancers sure are fun to fight against having 54k base hp constantly shooting 5k damage auto attacks at you.

Mesmer also has Veil to cloak an entire zerg and Temporal Curtain to give anyone without swiftness a long duration one. Also how are you saying 17 seconds out of 30 seconds being in stealth on a pet class is fun to play against?

I like this summary, after 2000hours+ in wvw I consider your post to be correct.
Could be a few things added here and there, but in general it is correct.

Condi necros really are out of control, only thing to justify them is their low mobility.
But the class is so easy to play and can put so so much pressure it is insane. +40% condi
duration food completely makes them a broken class.

glaphen.5230:

Not every class is overpowered with condition builds. Before the Necromancer buff patch everyone complained conditions were useless yet suddenly only Necromancer gets buffed and now your saying condition Guardian is overpowered. Plus Necromancer with full Death Shroud has a base of around 36k hp not counting degen or using Plague or Lich form which triples and double your life for the duration. Power Necromancers sure are fun to fight against having 54k base hp constantly shooting 5k damage auto attacks at you.

Mesmer also has Veil to cloak an entire zerg and Temporal Curtain to give anyone without swiftness a long duration one. Also how are you saying 17 seconds out of 30 seconds being in stealth on a pet class is fun to play against?

No i am saying that Mesmer Condition build is VERY strong i used to run one and it was insane. thief and Engi have some very strong builds for conditions as well. I dont think Guardian can even do condition builds.

Yeah they have high health due to the fact they have no way to get out of combat once you are inside it. They dont really have that much in terms of defensive options either.

I would like to this this Power Necro with 54k health doing 5k hits. At a guess he is full P/T/V or some combo

ArmageddonAsh.6430:

glaphen.5230:

Not every class is overpowered with condition builds. Before the Necromancer buff patch everyone complained conditions were useless yet suddenly only Necromancer gets buffed and now your saying condition Guardian is overpowered. Plus Necromancer with full Death Shroud has a base of around 36k hp not counting degen or using Plague or Lich form which triples and double your life for the duration. Power Necromancers sure are fun to fight against having 54k base hp constantly shooting 5k damage auto attacks at you.

Mesmer also has Veil to cloak an entire zerg and Temporal Curtain to give anyone without swiftness a long duration one. Also how are you saying 17 seconds out of 30 seconds being in stealth on a pet class is fun to play against?

No i am saying that Mesmer Condition build is VERY strong i used to run one and it was insane. thief and Engi have some very strong builds for conditions as well. I dont think Guardian can even do condition builds.

Yeah they have high health due to the fact they have no way to get out of combat once you are inside it. They dont really have that much in terms of defensive options either.

I would like to this this Power Necro with 54k health doing 5k hits. At a guess he is full P/T/V or some combo

I used to run a PU build before they nerfed the endurance regen runes and sigils and before PU was buffed. It only works on morons since it has no chasing ability since all its damage requires the enemy to kill your clones but this was before scepter was buffed so the torment is pretty scary now. Best defense against PU Mesmers is to ignore them since they are unstoppable 1 on 1 or even 3 on 1 but cant kill anyone who doesn’t commit to the fight. Thief with berserker gear also is far stronger and can chase with more survivability and damage.

Guardian with carrion gear and a 30/30 build with signets can do seriously high burning damage and high damage with Binding Blade and do tons with power damage too. Still useless against someone good enough to dodge Binding Blade.

That 54k hp is base hp from being in Lich Form with zerker gear and switching to Death Shroud before you die. Necromancer might not be good at running away but it is impossible to run away without teleports from a Necromancer. They can easily get perma cripple and high chill up time.

glaphen.5230:

ArmageddonAsh.6430:

glaphen.5230:

Not every class is overpowered with condition builds. Before the Necromancer buff patch everyone complained conditions were useless yet suddenly only Necromancer gets buffed and now your saying condition Guardian is overpowered. Plus Necromancer with full Death Shroud has a base of around 36k hp not counting degen or using Plague or Lich form which triples and double your life for the duration. Power Necromancers sure are fun to fight against having 54k base hp constantly shooting 5k damage auto attacks at you.

Mesmer also has Veil to cloak an entire zerg and Temporal Curtain to give anyone without swiftness a long duration one. Also how are you saying 17 seconds out of 30 seconds being in stealth on a pet class is fun to play against?

No i am saying that Mesmer Condition build is VERY strong i used to run one and it was insane. thief and Engi have some very strong builds for conditions as well. I dont think Guardian can even do condition builds.

Yeah they have high health due to the fact they have no way to get out of combat once you are inside it. They dont really have that much in terms of defensive options either.

I would like to this this Power Necro with 54k health doing 5k hits. At a guess he is full P/T/V or some combo

I used to run a PU build before they nerfed the endurance regen runes and sigils and before PU was buffed. It only works on morons since it has no chasing ability since all its damage requires the enemy to kill your clones but this was before scepter was buffed so the torment is pretty scary now. Best defense against PU Mesmers is to ignore them since they are unstoppable 1 on 1 or even 3 on 1 but cant kill anyone who doesn’t commit to the fight. Thief with berserker gear also is far stronger and can chase with more survivability and damage.

Guardian with carrion gear and a 30/30 build with signets can do seriously high burning damage and high damage with Binding Blade and do tons with power damage too. Still useless against someone good enough to dodge Binding Blade.

That 54k hp is base hp from being in Lich Form with zerker gear and switching to Death Shroud before you die. Necromancer might not be good at running away but it is impossible to run away without teleports from a Necromancer. They can easily get perma cripple and high chill up time.

Not really, true. It isn’t easy, but it is far from impossible to get away from a necro.

On a thief, you simply stealth and cleanse then run away.
Mesmer – rinse and repeat
Warrior – necro should be dead before it became an issue
Ranger – Longbow #4, Followed by #3 and switch to Sword/GS and use #2 or #3 respectively
Engineer – Not familiar with this one
Guardian – Why did you go in alone? You are either suicidal or stupid or both to duel a necro with a guard.
Elementalist – Burst heal and let diamond skin handle the rest/Mistform to a safe distance.

Necromancer should never lose to a Warrior unless he is terrible. Kite him during the 8 second immunity and then hes a free kill. If he activate Berserker Stance as soon as the fight starts dodge the Earthshaker/Bull’s Charge/Pin Down/Shield Bash since those are the only ranged cc a Warrior has and you can only get a max of 3 of them in one build. You have two dodges and if he is running Bull’s Charge he lacks either stability or physical damage immunity. If he doesn’t start the fight with it then he should have enough cripple and chill to last a lifetime unless he has mobile strikes which means he is lacking another cc unless he took it with only Earthshaker/Bull’s Charge or using sword/shield which people are all complaining about hambow. After Berserker Stance is over he should just be fear spammed to death waddling around crying. Best burst survivability class should not die within 8 seconds ever.

Ranger has to escape or die anyways since a Ranger cannot kill a condition Necromancer with its current condition removal.

Elementalist wont be killing anyone else with that Diamond Skin and so who cares since I never even see any Diamond Skin Elementalists anyways. Also the Elementalist dies easily if it was a power Necromancer.

BM Bunker would lose against a condi necro, true. A well played zerker ranger would wipe the floor with it. True story. Then again, playing zerker ranger properly is extremely hard.

I fight and kill Necros in WvW with relative regularity on my Ranger…only well played ones give me a hard time and I still rarely lose to them. People tend to generalize far too much on these forums. Take 10 different players with the same build/setup and you will have 10 different ways to approach the fight

I run 20K hits/3K armor in medium with Empathic Bond/Poultry Lemon+Melandru/SoR so hardly weak to burst or conditions…

Sarlack.4096:

I fight and kill Necros in WvW with relative regularity on my Ranger…only well played ones give me a hard time and I still rarely lose to them. People tend to generalize far too much on these forums. Take 10 different players with the same build/setup and you will have 10 different ways to approach the fight

I run 20K hits/3K armor in medium with Empathic Bond/Poultry Lemon+Melandru/SoR so hardly weak to burst or conditions…

Best post of the day.

As different people with different ways of approaching things, we tend to have different ways of doing things differently. On my necro I have owned and been owned by rangers, same goes for warriors. If you add in the fact that some of us play when tired and/or high the reflexes can go to pot (literally).

Hammer, hammer, hammer. That basicly is wvw these days. Fix your game Anet.

aspirine.6852:

Hammer, hammer, hammer. That basicly is wvw these days. Fix your game Anet.

Note To self: Make a warrior named “Maxwell”

Prysin.8542:

aspirine.6852:

Hammer, hammer, hammer. That basicly is wvw these days. Fix your game Anet.

Note To self: Make a warrior named “Maxwell”

Surely Guardian would be better fit?

Xavi.6591:

I would rank Ele’s higher in a zerg than Mesmer’s. A zerg only needs 1 or 2 Mesmer’s. Ele AOE is much better for backline.

Indeed, several eles are a must for any large scale group combat.

morrolan.9608:

Xavi.6591:

I would rank Ele’s higher in a zerg than Mesmer’s. A zerg only needs 1 or 2 Mesmer’s. Ele AOE is much better for backline.

Indeed, several eles are a must for any large scale group combat.

What kind of ele do you use? Is it pvt gear or in brave zerker gear =)

It’s not the classes that end up being “Rallybots” its the individual players builds, skill level and knowledge of their class.
It just takes time to Theory-Craft and learn your class in depth; knowing your limitations.

Each class has a set role among a zerg From: Boon Stackers, Boon strippers, Blast finishers, CC’ers and Combo Fields.

As a thief I wouldn’t waste trait points nor utilities slots for Venoms, I’d equip a Pistol as my off-hand weapon for the Dark field and blind; which is far more accessible and useful in teamplay.
Use your Steals to your advantage: Steal Fear off a Necro or a waterfield off a Ranger, and switch to your shortbow for the best blast finisher in the game.

Of course some classes are far more versatile than others like Warriors when it comes to each wvw game-style: Guild runs, Solo Roaming, Zerging and Group roaming.
Generally Heavies are often low risk and high reward, they aren’t invincible though if you use Choke point, Flanking and other tactics to your advantage.

When there’s a group of up to 20 it becomes less about individual skill and more about coordination, but a few skilled players CAN turn the tide of a battle around.

so much truth in this post.

another important point is to never underestimate the function of a profession without knowing it’s limits. Many a player say they got all 8 professions and what not, but personally, i am very critical as to whether or not they know all 8 completely, or if they just made 8 of them to understand that which they had issues beating on their main.
No single profession is useless, everyone has their place, no matter how weird it may seem.

Dee Jay.2460:

ITT I’m going to whine about various aspects of classes I consider OP or UP.

1. Warriors – Much has been said about Warriors and most is true. They are the fastest class in game, spam constant AoE CC and are by far the most useful class in large scale fights next to Guardians. No wonder most guilds and even random Pugs have pushed more and more of their members to re-roll Warriors. And why would they not? What role in large scale fights is not best filled by a Warrior? You can never have enough.

2. Guardians – Are the back-bone of zergs, just like Warriors. Their usefulness comes mainly from their support, not their actual skills. Just like Warriors they carry your zerg and have great skills (like Barrier and pull) to support it. Not really OP, but maybe a little too useful if you look at what little other classes bring to the table.

3. Necromancers – They get to bake the cake and eat it. 50k EHP, Stability , AoE and frequent CC….what more could a class possibly want? The most overpowered aspect though is undoubtedly the Dhuumfire condition build. A quick Terror followed by a Signet of Spite and it’s game over for almost every class. 3 seconds with your pants down and you’re dead. Great design, right there. So skillful…so fair, so much counter-play. Not even WoW was that bad with its Fear spam.

At least Warriors were up in your face with some fairly telegraphed moves before they CC-chained you to death.

4. Thief – High-risk/reward class when solo or in small groups and can be really frustrating to play against. It seems like a class built for griefing. I would complain about them more but in large scale combat often not more than a rally-bot for the enemy. With no Stability or Protection they die rally, really easily to random AoE damage. No wonder most of them get their kicks out of roaming, trolling and harassing. What else can they do?

5. Rangers – It seems like Rangers are the reversal of Necros in WvW. In sPvP, Necros are tough but manageable, while in WvW their Dhuumfire build is the epitome of opness. In sPvP Rangers are really, really strong but in WvW most seem to be fairly easy kills. While they don’t contribute greatly to zerg fights at least they have a good range and don’t serve as a rally bot.

6. Mesmer – “Let’s give all the amazing support skills to a single class” must have been a train of thought when designing the Mesmer. Maybe it was bias for it being an original “Guild Wars” class or maybe they designed it last, idk. Anyway somehow the clkitten up with most of the best support skills in game while many others have none. Again, it’s the support skills that carry the Mesmer in zerg fights. Their personal contribution is often very little. Their highlight is probably those few seconds they get to place Nullfield or Veil and the commence to create a lightshow that does nothing except ruins people’s PC performance. Seriously, without and Mesmers I think Guild Wars 2 would have to render 30% less effects and player-models.

In contrast, their popular solo build is a broken stealth-spam build. People complained about stealth-spaming Thieves, but at least that was only one thing to track. A Mesmer can spam stealth equally while hiding behind his Illusions and having his Phantasms eat away at you. Probably the most ridiculous small-scale class after the Necro but at least you can just run away from them if you don’t want to fight them for 15 minutes.

7. Elementalist – Don’t really have strong feelings about Elementalists any more. They used to be the gods of WvW a year ago but now they’re just average. Maybe they’re a good model to follow for other classes. Their moves are well-telegraphed, their builds make trade-offs. For every bit of offense they take they give up a tangible amount of defense. They can contribute to zergs and small scale fights, without carrying either. The only build I feel that breaks this otherwise balanced class is the combination of tanky builds with Conjured Weapons. The amount of pressure and sustain that can be combined in such a way is outside of the standard balance spectrum.

8. Engineer – The wildcard of classes. I’ve seen Engineers I’d consider greatly overpowered, mostly the tanky builds with lots of condition pressure. But for every such Engineer I encounter 5 others that put up reasonable fights without feeling overpowered. The high-pressure builds give up a fair amount of survivability to do so so I think, aside from the aforementioned bunker + condition spam build, that the class is fairly well-rounded.

post of a kitten, i think the op classes in wvw is warrior and thief (they said they would “nerf” it but i dont think they really want to make balance)
i just laugh when you post necro is op. necro? op? stability? fear spam? please………

Dee Jay.2460:

7. Elementalist – Don’t really have strong feelings about Elementalists any more. They used to be the gods of WvW a year ago but now they’re just average. Maybe they’re a good model to follow for other classes. Their moves are well-telegraphed, their builds make trade-offs. For every bit of offense they take they give up a tangible amount of defense. They can contribute to zergs and small scale fights, without carrying either. The only build I feel that breaks this otherwise balanced class is the combination of tanky builds with Conjured Weapons. The amount of pressure and sustain that can be combined in such a way is outside of the standard balance spectrum.

Um sorry what? The only problem you have with my class is some of our most useless player vs player utilities?! “tanky builds with Conjured Weapons.”????

Have you ever played an ele? Im sure you will realise that NONE of the the conjured weapons offer ANY sustain. Furthermore they are so limited in their applications that unless your opponent is kittened they won’t be doing much “pressure” either.

Their only use is ice bow for aoe, which is mainly for zerg fights, which you shouldnt be complaining about since we have meteor shower which is ten times better. And finally the fiery greatsword which is great for MOBILITY, not SUSTAIN or freaking PRESSURE (unless ofcourse your opponent is dumb enough to stand in a corner, in which case they will die… very very quickly).

Gee my power Necro gets 50k HPs and stability? Sweet. When’s this getting patched in?

That stability sure would come in handy while I’m being stunlocked to death.

This whole post has to be a troll attempt. Bravo.

Upleveled bear Rangers are obviously at the top.
I mean, who doesn’t love easy bags?

OP… not OP… when a couple classes dominate the effective class population something is amiss. Guardians and Warriors are really not OP but something in their design has made them indispensable which is at least in this game unbalanced.

Nick.6972:

Upleveled PvE Hero bearbow Rangers are obviously at the top.
I mean, who doesn’t love easy bags?

Fixed it for you. Do not for a moment think that a PVT/Clerics bear ranger is easy meat even if its upleveled. They tank like mad.

Problem with this post is assuming everyone is using basically the same build and play style.

Prysin.8542:

Nick.6972:

Upleveled PvE Hero bearbow Rangers are obviously at the top.
I mean, who doesn’t love easy bags?

Fixed it for you. Do not for a moment think that a PVT/Clerics bear ranger is easy meat even if its upleveled. They tank like mad.

^^ This!!

OP your post speak so much truth it hurts.

LoneWolfie.1852:

OP your post speak so much truth it hurts.

OP has no idea what he is talking about. That is main reason why it hurts. For example. Mesmer doesn’t have 17 sec of invis every 30 sec. If i use all my invis one after another starting with shortest cooldown it would be 20- 30 sec break untill invis is up again. Not a lot of mesmers run with torch which makes time in invis -4 sec and cooldown longer. Even less run veil unless in zergs. Basically i have decoy and mass invis 50% of time up. Sometimes changing MI for MOA especially against thievs, necros and wars. Decoy is 3 sec on 40 seconds cooldown. Spam that.
Wars currently have only one OP skill. It is running away:) It is good all around class but not OP.
Cond necros are my favored walking loot bag with arcane thievery and mantra i can return 3 cond and clean 4 more in a sec while my phats are ripping necro apart.
Guardian being OP. It is laughable class in 1v1 fights unless they use 1 build with focus and even then 90% guards are just another loot bag for any high DPS class. That focus burst guardian build is not very good in zergs.
Not all thievs are running around with 9k HP and 6-10k backstab. Some are very good to survive in large scale fights with useful utilities.
Basically unless you have all lvl 80 classes and good with all of them do not make general bullcrapping assumption on forum.

Ptolemy.5086:

LoneWolfie.1852:

OP your post speak so much truth it hurts.

OP has no idea what he is talking about. That is main reason why it hurts.

This. Most of what he is saying is totally wrong.

1/2 those classes get slept on in WvW because over 50% of the people cannot play them within 60% of their skill requirements. Not every class is like a warrior where the skill cap is low.
Engineers are nasty when played by someone that knows the class. I have won numerous 2v1s and a few 3v1s on my engineer (I have also lost my fair share). This is one of 4 classes that require an in-depth knowledge of the class and their build in particular. This is NOT a class you can just grab a build off the internet and roll face with.
Rangers can pump out HUGE amounts of condition damage. My ranger has north of 2k condition damage with a full stack and food, people melt under my burning, poison and bleeds. I also have another build where I can frontline with warriors and burst people down. It is about the player, not the class. I do not run around with a longbow and a bear. I do keep a longbow handy for towers though.
Guardians are mostly build full AH support, I decided to break from that mold. My guardian’s build is a little selfish, but works great for front line and roaming. 2v1s are funny, I have enough sustain to keep myself afloat and can still kick out a butt ton of damage dropping both people.

I’m not sure what this list is for, roaming or actual wvw/zerg/guild fights ?
Guardians no.1 imo, then eles warriors and necros all kinda equally useful and good for large scale. Then Mesmers and thieves.

Rangers contribute to zerg fights ? What the actual kitten ? That class is as useless as it can get, swap it for pretty much any other class and you’ll be better off in large-scale fights.

PacoXI.7690:

Dee Jay.2460:

7. Elementalist – Don’t really have strong feelings about Elementalists any more. They used to be the gods of WvW a year ago but now they’re just average. Maybe they’re a good model to follow for other classes. Their moves are well-telegraphed, their builds make trade-offs. For every bit of offense they take they give up a tangible amount of defense. They can contribute to zergs and small scale fights, without carrying either. The only build I feel that breaks this otherwise balanced class is the combination of tanky builds with Conjured Weapons. The amount of pressure and sustain that can be combined in such a way is outside of the standard balance spectrum.

Seems like you don’t know much about Staff Eles.

Static fields, Meteor range bombs, Tornado (highly underrated), water fields, etc. They are just a huge bag of tricks.

Tornado is a beast of a skill in WvW, I have wrecked entire zergs with it in big fights. I admit I’d like my old DD back but my current Ele is quite satisfying to play in WvW. Staff Ele is loaded with spells which are vital to the whole WvW gameplay.

Shifts in population of who runs what class/es in an aspect of a game Pve, Dungeons, Wvw zerg, WvW roam, PvP is probably one of the best indicators of what class is a bit overpowered and what is a bit underpowered.

The fact you see fewer and fewer elementalists in zergs suggests a change is needed.
Ditto for rangers. Seeing more rangers and eles reroll than other classes.
The fact that you see more necromancers than before suggests a change.

The fact that a large percentage (much larger than 12.5%) of characters are warriors in WvW and much larger than 25% are warriors and guardians is a real problem. It means you have made high armor, melee too powerful.

Balance is easy to eyeball by looking at the composition of the groups.

Sure, you could say “but your underrepresented class should/could do better”. To a large extent that really doesn’t matter. The player is right. When they over or underplay they are right.

Rangers and Eles aren’t weak, they are actually quite good, both of them. It is just that other professions have overtaken them in the two things they used to excel at, AOE DPS and waterfields/group healing.

Laugh all you want, but eating 12x 1.1k damage from barrage HURTS, and yes, you can hit that high even on PVT guards.

Eles need lower CD’s on group support skills and better RAW dps.. That is the main grief of eles. They got the power, the skills, the AOE. They just can’t spam.

Rangers just need a solid damage boost, pets need twice their current HP, spirits need to get rid of the timer system and make them killable (like necro minions. ATM, spirits is like a lame mix of guardian spirit weapons and necro minions)

Prysin.8542:

Rangers and Eles aren’t weak, they are actually quite good, both of them. It is just that other professions have overtaken them in the two things they used to excel at, AOE DPS and waterfields/group healing.

Laugh all you want, but eating 12x 1.1k damage from barrage HURTS, and yes, you can hit that high even on PVT guards.

Eles need lower CD’s on group support skills and better RAW dps.. That is the main grief of eles. They got the power, the skills, the AOE. They just can’t spam.

Rangers just need a solid damage boost, pets need twice their current HP, spirits need to get rid of the timer system and make them killable (like necro minions. ATM, spirits is like a lame mix of guardian spirit weapons and necro minions)

Is Lava Font and their AoE massive damage auto attack not enough spam? Rangers need help obviously since they are just worst Elementalists in zergs.

glaphen.5230:

Prysin.8542:

Rangers and Eles aren’t weak, they are actually quite good, both of them. It is just that other professions have overtaken them in the two things they used to excel at, AOE DPS and waterfields/group healing.

Laugh all you want, but eating 12x 1.1k damage from barrage HURTS, and yes, you can hit that high even on PVT guards.

Eles need lower CD’s on group support skills and better RAW dps.. That is the main grief of eles. They got the power, the skills, the AOE. They just can’t spam.

Rangers just need a solid damage boost, pets need twice their current HP, spirits need to get rid of the timer system and make them killable (like necro minions. ATM, spirits is like a lame mix of guardian spirit weapons and necro minions)

Is Lava Font and their AoE massive damage auto attack not enough spam? Rangers need help obviously since they are just worst Elementalists in zergs.

Yeah, my autoattacks do massive damage. And Lava Fonts are kitten near spammable. Time your skills right and you can still do pretty massive spikes of damage outside of Meteor Storm.

Anet have messed up again.