Guild Wars 2

(3rd Party Program) Clock Wars: Time Management FTW
The change to upgrades makes time a crucial factor. The change to waypoints limits mobility, which makes commitment choices more important. We’ve already seen an impact from 3rd-party overlays affecting decisions because of RI timers… what’s going to happen when everything is based on a timer? Let’s now hear into the future…

Where to Attack:

• “No, we don’t have time to flip this keep before it upgrades, we’ll go somewhere else.”
• “Leave the Fire Keep alone for now, we have an hour to take it before it upgrades again. Other things are more urgent.”
• “Retake them in the same order they were taken, otherwise one will have time to upgrade.”
• “Remember the 20 minute rule… if you haven’t flipped it back within 20 minutes, go somewhere else ’cause they can just stall till it upgrades.”

When to Attack:

• “No, don’t flip this yet, they will be able to flip it back before the tic.”
• “We only have 5 minutes to flip this before it upgrades, pvdoor hard!”
• “We’re hitting Air Keep at 6 o’clock. 20 minutes will be enough to flip it before it fortifies.
• “What’s next on the schedule? Ok… Air Keep by 5:40, Fire Keep by 6:00, then we’ll try and get Earth Keep by 6:15. I think we can get them all before they upgrade.”
• “If you ignore the schedule, you are just allowing them to upgrade and making it harder on us. Stick to the schedule!”

When to Defend:

• “No, we won’t come defend, its still 30 minutes away from an upgrade, just abandon it.”
• “Upgrade is in 7 minutes, stall, stall, stall!”
• “There’s no way they’re getting in before it upgrades. We’ll come wipe them when we’re done elsewhere.”
• “Can we get a stall team to Fire Keep? 15 minutes till upgrade, we want to make sure and hold it.”
• “EVERYONE GUARD THAT YAK, if it touches the gate, the walls will upgrade!”

Daily Schedule:

• “Why does the enemy always have our borderland fully fortified at 6 in the morning?”

Yup. I started a thread with this in it. But people aren’t going to guard yaks anymore if it’s gonna upgrade automatically anyway.

Energy Cannon/Oasis Event: (every 3 hours)

• “Don’t waste supply repairing the paper gates now. Wait until they finish the laser event, THEN use supply to repair after it gets vaporized.”
• “Don’t take keep supply below 700, we will need it to repair the gates in 20 minutes if we lose the laser event.”
• “Don’t bother flipping stuff now, the laser event is coming up and they will just zerg it and all our paper doors will be down.”
• “Ok, we have enough cores to finish the laser event. Everybody else spread out and get ready to take everything. When everyone’s in position, we’ll fire the laser.”
• “I spent 30 minutes trying to solo the laser event, then an enemy zerg came and finished it fast. Grrraaaah!”
• “We can’t stop them firing the laser with their numbers. We need at least one person in each tower to at least tack up the gates.”

misterdevious.6482:

Energy Cannon/Oasis Event: (every 3 hours)

• “Don’t waste supply repairing the paper gates now. Wait until they finish the laser event, THEN use supply to repair after it gets vaporized.”
• “Don’t take keep supply below 700, we will need it to repair the gates in 20 minutes if we lose the laser event.”
• “Don’t bother flipping stuff now, the laser event is coming up and they will just zerg it and all our paper doors will be down.”
• “Ok, we have enough cores to finish the laser event. Everybody else spread out and get ready to take everything. When everyone’s in position, we’ll fire the laser.”
• “I spent 30 minutes trying to solo the laser event, then an enemy zerg came and finished it fast. Grrraaaah!”
• “We can’t stop them firing the laser with their numbers. We need at least one person in each tower to at least tack up the gates.”

hahah yup thats the new wvw for us. after all the ideas the wvw community has come up with to improve wvw and btw some of u guys are awesome with their ideas, anet has listened and implemented …ABSOLUTELY NOTHING! its all bout events now instead of wvw battles. a new simpler map would have revived good old wvw more than this pve map. this new pve map will destoy wvw if not made optional.

From the title, I thought this thread was going to be about how time management will be necessary for anyone who wants to play real WvW after the release of the new map.

You know, who can queue up for EB hours and hours and hours before their actual playtime. Since they are removing all but one WvW map and making everything else into PvE jumping puzzles…

(okay, I know, that’s pessimistic and reactionary, I’m probably just bitter that I didn’t get invited to any of the betas, yeah, that’s probably it)

Thrashbarg.9820:

(okay, I know, that’s pessimistic and reactionary, I’m probably just bitter that I didn’t get invited to any of the betas, yeah, that’s probably it)

I was invited, but I refused out of loyalty to the rest of my guild. Nah… I wasn’t. Or was I? Mesmeriiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiized!

@Topic:
Well, well, well, someone has been time traveling (see what I did there? * hinting to signature *). Seriously… yes they upgrade automatically, but still can be significantly boosted with the power of ultra protected dollies. I dislike too that you cannot stop the upgrade by dolly slapping. But we still have to actually see how it will turn out. But I guess there are always ppl, who see dark clouds on the horizon.

I have no doubt there are some smart people out there already looking at ways to build a commander overlay with objective upgrade timers. That’s just a matter of time.

Seriously though, have Anet said exactly WHY they are making this change? Why would they destroy the roamer camp flipping and yak whacking game style? Right now “deny the supply” is an important part of game play.

Exactly what metric are we not living up to, and how will this change help that metric?

Herr der Friedhoefe.2490:

I have no doubt there are some smart people out there already looking at ways to build a commander overlay with objective upgrade timers. That’s just a matter of time.

Seriously though, have Anet said exactly WHY they are making this change? Why would they destroy the roamer camp flipping and yak whacking game style? Right now “deny the supply” is an important part of game play.

Exactly what metric are we not living up to, and how will this change help that metric?

Most of the proposed changes are to avoid points of conflict between players by limiting player ability to make bad decisions. They explained why upgrades were separated from supply: one player may be trying to upgrade and another player may want to use supply for siege. I don’t think they really explained why yaks were removed as a requirement for upgrades.

They claim that keeping supply lines clear will be more important (sentry crippling yaks), and escorting yaks will be easier (Protected Caravan Buff/Sentry Medkit), and killing yaks will still be vital (denying supply/delaying upgrades). They are really encouraging you to pay attention to yaks… ignoring the fact that yaks are much less significant in the overall scheme of things.

selan.8354:

misterdevious.6482:

Energy Cannon/Oasis Event: (every 3 hours)

• “Don’t waste supply repairing the paper gates now. Wait until they finish the laser event, THEN use supply to repair after it gets vaporized.”
• “Don’t take keep supply below 700, we will need it to repair the gates in 20 minutes if we lose the laser event.”
• “Don’t bother flipping stuff now, the laser event is coming up and they will just zerg it and all our paper doors will be down.”
• “Ok, we have enough cores to finish the laser event. Everybody else spread out and get ready to take everything. When everyone’s in position, we’ll fire the laser.”
• “I spent 30 minutes trying to solo the laser event, then an enemy zerg came and finished it fast. Grrraaaah!”
• “We can’t stop them firing the laser with their numbers. We need at least one person in each tower to at least tack up the gates.”

hahah yup thats the new wvw for us. after all the ideas the wvw community has come up with to improve wvw and btw some of u guys are awesome with their ideas, anet has listened and implemented …ABSOLUTELY NOTHING! its all bout events now instead of wvw battles. a new simpler map would have revived good old wvw more than this pve map. this new pve map will destoy wvw if not made optional.

Anet starts always with an excellent ideia and ends always to create bork/ruin their own work, 6 months later they repeat, “we are going to improve” and will end in same process has before…
The new map is excellent altough i feel it is not the best option if they want to make wvw good, there are even ways to get megaserver funtionning in wvw w/o hurting servers…

misterdevious.6482:

Most of the proposed changes are to avoid points of conflict between players by limiting player ability to make bad decisions.

The only way to remove the ability to make bad decisions is to remove the ability to make decisions entirely. ANet could also remove all bad decisions made in choosing and placing siege by having some NPC do it, so there could be no argument between players. ANet could remove bad decisions in choosing and using gear and skills by giving everyone a fixed build, a fixed set of gear, and skills that trigger themselves at the right time, so there can be no argument over someone losing a battle by bad play or being a rallybot.

But, when a game is making all the decisions for you, then in what sense are you “playing” it?

misterdevious.6482:

They are really encouraging you to pay attention to yaks… ignoring the fact that yaks are much less significant in the overall scheme of things.

Yaks aren’t needed at all anymore. The upgrades will happen no matter what, so yaks are no longer worth to even target. We’ve told Anet often enough already that you would think they got it, but we’re not getting any response.

We players understand our own motivations and play style and Anet doesn’t, and they never consult with us in advance. Why does the gaming industry manage to pull this off so often?

BrettM.9062:

misterdevious.6482:

Most of the proposed changes are to avoid points of conflict between players by limiting player ability to make bad decisions.

The only way to remove the ability to make bad decisions is to remove the ability to make decisions entirely. ANet could also remove all bad decisions made in choosing and placing siege by having some NPC do it, so there could be no argument between players. ANet could remove bad decisions in choosing and using gear and skills by giving everyone a fixed build, a fixed set of gear, and skills that trigger themselves at the right time, so there can be no argument over someone losing a battle by bad play or being a rallybot.

But, when a game is making all the decisions for you, then in what sense are you “playing” it?

Keep in mind that auto-upgrades aren’t just about preventing players from making bad decisions with regard to upgrades. They’re also about preventing players from making malicious decisions (i.e., trolling), in addition to removing the gold cost of upgrades. I think it’s important to remember that those are two major pros of auto-upgrades.

Herr der Friedhoefe.2490:

misterdevious.6482:

They are really encouraging you to pay attention to yaks… ignoring the fact that yaks are much less significant in the overall scheme of things.

Yaks aren’t needed at all anymore. The upgrades will happen no matter what, so yaks are no longer worth to even target. We’ve told Anet often enough already that you would think they got it, but we’re not getting any response.

We players understand our own motivations and play style and Anet doesn’t, and they never consult with us in advance. Why does the gaming industry manage to pull this off so often?

Technically yaks will still be useful for increasing the total supply available to a team on a map; they are the only way you can build up a convenient store of supply at objectives. As a yakslapper you could still theoretically make a big difference on a map by denying the enemy team this extra supply, making it harder for them to siege up a keep, repair walls, build golems, etc.

The problem, at least for me, is that the most fun reason to snipe yaks in the current game is to deny upgrades, which will be taken away with these changes (since killing yaks will only delay upgrades). Yeah, if I snipe yaks after the changes, I can be somewhat content knowing the other teams won’t be able to repair walls as easily, and won’t be building as many arrow carts. But right now I get a strong visual reminder that my yak sniping is making a difference (because the enemy keeps and towers stay paper). After the changes, any evidence that my yak sniping is effective (like less arrow carts) will be hidden behind the keep walls (which will upgrade no matter what I do).

Aeolus.3615:

selan.8354:

misterdevious.6482:

Energy Cannon/Oasis Event: (every 3 hours)

• “Don’t waste supply repairing the paper gates now. Wait until they finish the laser event, THEN use supply to repair after it gets vaporized.”
• “Don’t take keep supply below 700, we will need it to repair the gates in 20 minutes if we lose the laser event.”
• “Don’t bother flipping stuff now, the laser event is coming up and they will just zerg it and all our paper doors will be down.”
• “Ok, we have enough cores to finish the laser event. Everybody else spread out and get ready to take everything. When everyone’s in position, we’ll fire the laser.”
• “I spent 30 minutes trying to solo the laser event, then an enemy zerg came and finished it fast. Grrraaaah!”
• “We can’t stop them firing the laser with their numbers. We need at least one person in each tower to at least tack up the gates.”

hahah yup thats the new wvw for us. after all the ideas the wvw community has come up with to improve wvw and btw some of u guys are awesome with their ideas, anet has listened and implemented …ABSOLUTELY NOTHING! its all bout events now instead of wvw battles. a new simpler map would have revived good old wvw more than this pve map. this new pve map will destoy wvw if not made optional.

Anet starts always with an excellent ideia and ends always to create bork/ruin their own work, 6 months later they repeat, “we are going to improve” and will end in same process has before…
The new map is excellent altough i feel it is not the best option if they want to make wvw good, there are even ways to get megaserver funtionning in wvw w/o hurting servers…

agreed. there are many ideas and ways of improving wvw. a new map was long overdue but i think certain elements went too far. if they’d kept it simple and without the weird events then yes i could see this map doing well. too much ai and pve elements just ruing it for me though. the keep pve out of wvw wish that was asked for by many seems to be ignored by anet. i see masssssive queues for eb already so wvw players can avoid the pve hordes that will go and do events in wvw and ktrain and do the weird jumping puzzle elements of the map….

also the 3 hours timing for the stupid orb collecting event that trigger an stupid laser….what is this? tequatl?
so the underdog server will have to get used to having all theoir gates destroyed every 3 hours as the other server brings a 60 man blob to collect the orbs. but now that the laser did its job everyone is already waiting at the gates for repairs…..cause the timer says so… it will be clockwars and is an absolute stupid idea that should have been discussed with the wvw community before implementing it.
a new map yes, 1000 weird changes that change 99% of wvw is a bad idea.

If the world of the future is going to be run by clocks, they could at least have the decency to put the clocks on the game maps themselves, instead of having our lives interrupted by the constant question: “what’s the the timer on ______?”

“Its difficult to tell from this vantage point whether they will consume the captive Tyrian men or merely enslave them. One thing is for certain: there is no stopping them; the clocks will soon be here. And I, for one, welcome our new chronometric overlords.”