Guild Wars 2

5 months ago GW2 started Collaborative Development in all content areas of the game. I think it’s safe to say PvE is doing great, and with the new PvP patch that area of the game is receiving a lot of new faces, but what’s happened with WvW?

Well, I think it’s safe to say not a whole lot.

At the time Collaborative Development began, the Edge of the Mists was in the end stages of beta, since then it’s not really received much attention as a “playground for testing new ideas.”

They’ve added some content, but they’ve not focused on any of the concerns brought up by the community.

The main topics covered in the Collaborative Development thread were WvW population and scoring. A lot of great ideas were thrown around, but we’ve yet to see any response to these in game.

Can we expect to see anything?

What are your expectations for WvW?

It all takes to long to expect anything imho, I am not holding my breath.

Yeah we’ll see some changes, maybe. Or not. Probably within the next month to two years. Or never.

Anet could always announce an upcoming change for WvW and then forget about it until 5-6 months down the road. (I’m thinking of you account bound WXP).

I’m expecting several underpopulated WvW realms will undergo some form of merge, regardless of what the merge is called or marketed as. This is the technically the easiest way to solve the glaring coverage and scoring system problems in WvW. But this is the worst change the community can go through. Merging is probably only a matter of transferring account data to another hard-drive, and shutting down the hard ware.

I can imagine coding a new scoring algorithm could be extremely complicated and take numerous man hours to complete. The merge would only take hours to complete mainly depending on data transfer speed and amount of data transferred. It frees up state of the art servers to be used for other purposes by NCSOFT.

EDIT: My previous post on the Traits General Feedback Thread, explains what I would like to see changed in GW2, and why.

I want to be proven wrong about my suspicions, but I’m not optimistic about it.

buckeyecro.9614:

I can imagine coding a new scoring algorithm could be extremely complicated and take numerous man hours to complete.

Except that it shouldn’t really be complicated at all. Numerous suggestions for improving the scoring mechanics have already been made in the threads listed below. Several of them take the current mechanics and make very minor tweaks using existing coding. It may still be more complex than a server merge; but not by much. With the added benefit of servers not losing their identity.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/wuv/wuv/Proposal-How-to-fix-the-PPT-system/3941295

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/wuv/wuv/New-wvw-point-tick-system/3946757

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/wuv/wuv/Nerf-the-domination-of-Coverage/3462968

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/wuv/wuv/New-Point-system-idea-Objective-PPT-based

grifflyman.8102:

What are your expectations for WvW?

Status quo.

Here’s another question.
Wasnt EOTM supposed to be a testing ground for future WvW content?
What exactly are they testing in EOTM currently?
Karma Training? Farming? PvE?

https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/the-edge-of-the-mists-a-new-map-is-coming-to-wvw/

Nick.6972:

Here’s another question.
Wasnt EOTM supposed to be a testing ground for future WvW content?
What exactly are they testing in EOTM currently?
Karma Training? Farming? PvE?

Yep, they stated it was going to be a way to test new systems for WvW, but it’s just taken away people from WvW.

grifflyman.8102:

..snip

They’ve added some content, but they’ve not focused on any of the concerns brought up by the community.

The main topics covered in the Collaborative Development thread were WvW population and scoring. A lot of great ideas were thrown around, but we’ve yet to see any response to these in game.

Can we expect to see anything?

What are your expectations for WvW?

Not expecting anything regarding “Collaborative” development. That implies that collaboration has occurred.

Fixing the population and scoring issues would require an overhaul of the current system. The WvW playerbase is diverse enough in how they’d like to see that occur, that either the design will be stuck in “analysis paralysis” trying to solve for all concerns or a new design would require a hard decision to just attrit a segment of players it can’t possibly serve.

Status quo might only attrit a trickle of players at a time which would not appear any different than normal expectations for a game almost 2 years old with no announced expansion. It’s the path of least resistance and least investment (time/money).

ANet has gone dead quiet on any future content, for all parts of their game, a strange strategy coming on the eve of their 2-year anniversary for a game that was previously a “Game of the Year”.

On the other hand, apparently ANet likes to think it can pull out these “exciting” surprise announcements, so “nothing is off the table”.

I know there’s a general consensus that once ANet is finished with the China release ( past May), they’ll be “back”.

My expectations for the game and for WvW specifically? Given past performance and pattern recognition: there will be a change for their own internal technical reasons which nobody asked for, won’t solve anything, will add a different set of issues and will delight no one. Feedback threads containing comments to that effect will be shut down immediately. Most of the player base will shrug, fan boys will defend and the game will continue to limp along.

-Sally Sunshine (the dev’s aren’t listening)

It tested megaserver tech.

I wish they would bring some of those keep lords from EoTM to WvW. Man, it took a lot to take some of them lords down.

PS: perhaps they will add water combat.

-giggles

grifflyman.8102:

5 months ago GW2 started Collaborative Development in all content areas of the game. I think it’s safe to say PvE is doing great, and with the new PvP patch that area of the game is receiving a lot of new faces, but what’s happened with WvW

Nothing has come out of the CDIs in either PvE, PvP, or WvW. They’re purely a public relations ploy.

Anet has already decided what they want to do and are just fishing for people to “suggest” those exact ideas in the CDIs — when this happens, it makes the company appear as if it’s listening.

Look at the WvW CDI: “What would you like to bring to WvW from EoTM.” Seriously?

goldenwing.8473:

PS: perhaps they will add water combat.

-giggles

Hey, I like water combat. I always love it when people jump into the water around bay.

Andrew Clear.1750:

goldenwing.8473:

PS: perhaps they will add water combat.

-giggles

Hey, I like water combat. I always love it when people jump into the water around bay.

That’s not the same as an underwater zone, though. I love hunting down folks in the water at bay as well. Just got a little burnt out on required water combat during DAoC’s ToA (underwater raids).

The CDI hasn’t Bore any fruit sadly.
It’s like the Devs took a holiday after EoTM, then they finally brought Account Bound WXP after months of promising it and so they think it’s enough to show positive progress towards WvW that we envision.

Look how they implemented Transfers before the Tournament though, they don’t listen.

they dont want to fix the coverage issue (wvw collaborative development) because the way it is everyone is trying to get more people in wvw all day because of coverage and manpower issues and thats obv good for their game. about making wvw better i dont expect nothing from them in general, about the only thing i trust they get done for wvw at some point are fixing the lag issues.. even if it is only with making so many players quit the maps arent full anymore.

Steelo.4597:

they dont want to fix the coverage issue (wvw collaborative development) because the way it is everyone is trying to get more people in wvw all day because of coverage and manpower issues and thats obv good for their game. about making wvw better i dont expect nothing from them in general, about the only thing i trust they get done for wvw at some point are fixing the lag issues.. even if it is only with making so many players quit the maps arent full anymore.

I can tell you I’m tired of campaigning for my server, it’s a kittening game, not a political race.

I think ANET had a strong interest in the PvE CDI. There were a lot of good responses and dialogue there.

The WvW one seemed forced. I think the ANET WvW lead was forced to do it and so he spent the minimal time possible on it.

style.6173:

I think ANET had a strong interest in the PvE CDI. There were a lot of good responses and dialogue there.

The WvW one seemed forced. I think the ANET WvW lead was forced to do it and so he spent the minimal time possible on it.

More like: Anet made more effort to pretend they were listening in the PvE CDIs, whereas they didn’t even bother to do that for the WvW one.

Nick.6972:

Here’s another question.
Wasnt EOTM supposed to be a testing ground for future WvW content?
What exactly are they testing in EOTM currently?
Karma Training? Farming? PvE?

Airstrike Grenades!!!!!

Now, I’m not going to blast Anet for their WvW development. A lot more stuff needs to be taken into account for WvW than PvE. One of the biggest is balance issues, and not upsetting the people who actually play WvW, like it, and not post on these forums (which is the majority of them).

Sure, we have a lot of people who post on here, but why should Anet cater to us? We seem to never be satisfied. Also, they won’t cater to T1, because they are never satisfied.
Everytime they give us something, we complain about it. If I was a dev, I wouldn’t want to change anything, if it was just gonna still be the same status quo.

Coverage issues probably wont be touched, mainly because they will tick off a large portion of players no matter what they chose to do. Only thing I can see them doing is merging the lower tiers into the higher tiers, or offering more free transfers allowing us to merge ourselves some more.

It would be nice if they would make some new maps. Maybe use EoTM as the new EB, and have the green side be a desert map, the red be a jungle map, and the blue be a winter map. Spice things up a bit. But, I don’t think they have the resources to be able to do that.

Some better functionality for commanders would be nice. A new feature to be able to rally PvX players into WvW in cases of emergency, something along those lines. That wouldn’t be hard to implement or code.

The team is probably a bunch of designers, that might actually get an artist or a coder to work along with them, once in a blue moon.

Anyways, Anet has to cater to the PvE crowd, because that is by far, the majority of the player base. We are the minority, but they still are doing stuff for us.

I will just continue to play WvW, and enjoy what they give me (except EoTM, because it is pointless with no real reason to compete).

Quit being so kitten them, because all of us would be having difficulties with working on WvW. Offering them suggestions, but don’t be rude about it. Don’t demoralize them, like the fairweathers when you wipe them at a T3 keep late at night and take that keep.

In the next two months I expect the following:

1. A change in the scoring system to mitigate the detrimental effect of population imbalance and coverage.

2. Commander tag changes that allow different colors.

3. A new WvW map or insertion of the EOTM map into WvW proper on an alternating basis.

4. Season 3 where the matches are divided up into time slices to promote coverage balance.

zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz nnggguuggh what what what?? Oh, I must’ve fallen asleep at my desk and been dreaming. Wait, how’d all this get typed?

Lord Kuru.3685:

style.6173:

I think ANET had a strong interest in the PvE CDI. There were a lot of good responses and dialogue there.

The WvW one seemed forced. I think the ANET WvW lead was forced to do it and so he spent the minimal time possible on it.

More like: Anet made more effort to pretend they were listening in the PvE CDIs, whereas they didn’t even bother to do that for the WvW one.

They actually did implement some of the PvE stuff especially around horizontal progression. You are correct about WvW though.

style.6173:

Lord Kuru.3685:

style.6173:

I think ANET had a strong interest in the PvE CDI. There were a lot of good responses and dialogue there.

The WvW one seemed forced. I think the ANET WvW lead was forced to do it and so he spent the minimal time possible on it.

More like: Anet made more effort to pretend they were listening in the PvE CDIs, whereas they didn’t even bother to do that for the WvW one.

They actually did implement some of the PvE stuff especially around horizontal progression. You are correct about WvW though.

I would love, LOVE to see the tract system in WvW. It would be amazing! I hardly do anything but WvW and I have nothing to show for it other than frustration and a few great battle stories at launch.

Let’s put it this way, in the last CDI the host for the WvW one basically thought he got everything he needed after 3 days.
The other hosts carried on posting regularly to their CDI threads for another 18 days after that!
The host for the WvW CDI had to be dragged back by another host, and even then we got a mundane reply.

style.6173:

They actually did implement some of the PvE stuff especially around horizontal progression.

Yabbut they implemented it badly and in some cases they implemented it in a way that allows them to screw more money out of people.

Andrew Clear.1750:

Sure, we have a lot of people who post on here, but why should Anet cater to us? We seem to never be satisfied. Also, they won’t cater to T1, because they are never satisfied.
Everytime they give us something, we complain about it. If I was a dev, I wouldn’t want to change anything, if it was just gonna still be the same status quo.

This keeps being said and is wrong. Its the poor development of the game mode (especially in relation to other modes) and lack of communication that has led to the current climate in here.

They need another developer to help reply to posts.

grifflyman.8102:

They need another developer to help reply to posts.

Yeah. They’re putting so much effort into WvW content that they don’t have enough time to reply to posts.

If this game truly had any collaborative development ambitions then why am I still seeing Skyhammer in SoloQ?

Guys, the CDI was just to pacify dumb people for awhile. They were never going to act on any of it.

SlothBear.9846:

Guys, the CDI was just to pacify dumb people for awhile. They were never going to act on any of it.

That’s not true, I have no doubt they are working on something, I just wish they were more open about some of their ideas.

grifflyman.8102:

SlothBear.9846:

Guys, the CDI was just to pacify dumb people for awhile. They were never going to act on any of it.

That’s not true, I have no doubt they are working on something, I just wish they were more open about some of their ideas.

You have no doubt. Based on what? Not their track record, certainly.

Lord Kuru.3685:

grifflyman.8102:

SlothBear.9846:

Guys, the CDI was just to pacify dumb people for awhile. They were never going to act on any of it.

That’s not true, I have no doubt they are working on something, I just wish they were more open about some of their ideas.

You have no doubt. Based on what? Not their track record, certainly.

Hope?

grifflyman.8102:

SlothBear.9846:

Guys, the CDI was just to pacify dumb people for awhile. They were never going to act on any of it.

That’s not true, I have no doubt they are working on something, I just wish they were more open about some of their ideas.

Basically this. At this point, I don’t even care if Anet tells us that they are busy working on GW2 china and doesn’t really have time to push out new content and features ATM, I just wish they’d say SOMETHING to at least reassure the player base that they are still working on the game, and hopefully something about what their plan for WvW is. Right now we’re not even aware of the general blanket goals of the developers, which is why the CDI seems to have fallen completely to the wayside.

grifflyman.8102:

SlothBear.9846:

Guys, the CDI was just to pacify dumb people for awhile. They were never going to act on any of it.

That’s not true, I have no doubt they are working on something, I just wish they were more open about some of their ideas.

In the CDi thread on commanders they specifically talked about quick wins, months later nothing has been implemented from it.

I think their WVW strategy is to let WVW atrophy in order to funnel more players towards the bellyflop that is sPVP.

Since release there has not been a single thing added to WVW that I have enjoyed or benefited from as a player. Is it any wonder i’m cynical?

The 5 person AoE cap is an insurmountable flaw deeply rooted in GW2.
As great as the artwork and animations are in this game, it is at it’s core a 5v5 game.

….That for some reason decided to invest it’s resources in PvE content.

I get the feeling a lot of radical design changes were thrown at the team during development. Too many mass appeal studies for it’s own good perhaps. But whatever the reason, WvW is just a minor sideline in a big game that was never going to work especially great or be a big focus for development.

Anet knows and accepts this, so should you.

Just wait untill the Chinese start bashing WvW ~ maybe they’ll change stuff then!

Those Achievements are now since 2 years totally out of reach for any human being mathematically, because maxing them just takes way too much time than someone lives either ,or most likely anyone here will ever play the game so long and that calculated on the basis, that you play the game every single day 24/7 ….

What is really so hard about it to change these achievements? I don’t understand it.
I would love to hear here something from the responsible Devs, what are the problems and why it does take so long to change some requirements for those achievements by just changing mostly some numbers either only, or changing out a way too hard requirement with somethign similar working, that is alot easier to obtain and thus leads to the point, that progressing in those achievements will go faster.

Examples of how those achievements would work alot better and would feel also alot more rewarding and would be also in general more interesting – including renames of those ultimate boring 0815 titles.

Realm Avenger:

- Change it from 6 Ranks to 25 Ranks, each Rank giving +5 more AP the first 2 Ranks than the prior Rank, and from then on always the same amount. 5,10,15,15,15…
Kills required raise the first 6 Ranks, and are then continously always the same amount of 1250 additional kills per Rank.
- Brief said, this achievement works now similar to WvW Rank

• Rank 1 = 5 Kills
• Rank 2 = 100 Kills
• Rank 3 = 375 Kills
• Rank 4 = 500 Kills
• Rank 5 = 1000 Kills
• Rank 6 = 2250 Kills
• Rank 7 = 3500 Kills
• Rank 8 = 4750 Kills
• Rank 9 = 6000 Kills
• Rank 10 = 7250 Kills
  ….
• Rank 25 = 25000 Kills
• Title: Warlord of the Mists

The same done with Yakslapper.
- Raise the Ranks
- Reduce they mount of Yaks needed to be killed for May down from 1 Million to 25000
- Make each Rank more rewarding.

A Pack Dolyak’s Best Friend
- Reduce the Ranks of this Title to 1, no Title anymore, 15 AP
- Maxed out for escorting 2500 Dolyaks.

Repair Master
- Rename the Achievement to "Warcraft*
- Let everything that requires supply count for it, if you repair or build a siege weapon.
- Raise the Ranks to 25
- Reduce the amount of Supply needed to 100000

• Title: Creator of All Things

Take Everything in Sight
- Raise the Ranks to 25
- Reduce the amount from 1 Million to 25000

• Title: Liberator of the Mists

Going Camping, It’s Quite Roomy in Here, All We See We Own, King of the Castle
- Reduce to 1 Rank, 2500 Camps/Towers/Keeps/Castles required, 15 AP, no Titles anymore.

The Defend Titles get handled all the same way.
- Remove their Titles, 15 AP for defending 2500 Towers, Keeps, Camps/Castles
- New Achievement added: Hold Everything in Sight

• Title: Protector of the Mists – for defending 25000 objectives, 25 Ranks
  —-

I’m asking myself already, if we ever will get to see some changes here ..

Already said it back when these CD threads started.
Nothing but a PR trick to make people think that Arena Net is actually listening.

Nick.6972:

Already said it back when these CD threads started.
Nothing but a PR trick to make people think that Arena Net is actually listening.

The best bit is that people fell for it, even after Devon Carver posted that none of these ideas would become a work order. In other words, we can yack all we want about what we would like to see, but it isn’t going to happen.

Herr der Friedhoefe.2490:

Nick.6972:

Already said it back when these CD threads started.
Nothing but a PR trick to make people think that Arena Net is actually listening.

The best bit is that people fell for it, even after Devon Carver posted that none of these ideas would become a work order. In other words, we can yack all we want about what we would like to see, but it isn’t going to happen.

It was obvious even when he was simply answering that he thought the whole CDI thing was a waste of time. His answers dripped with not caring one bit. This was extremely apparent when discussing long term projects.

CDI is not an anet project it is a Chris Whiteside project and only condoned so to keep the appearance of interacting with the community.

We are getting a patch preview tomorrow with new combat focused masteries, new incentives to defend keeps and a promise of a new map added to the PPT battles.

-Wakes up.-

Valdemas and the you woke up or?

grifflyman.8102:

(…)

Can we expect to see anything?

What are your expectations for WvW?

Not expecting game to envolve towards wvw, unless they rework or bring something new to the game engine.

Anet doesn’t even post in the WvW forum anymore which just goes to show this side of the game is rotting away.

People are leaving in droves and Anet doesn’t seem to bother.

buckeyecro.9614:

I’m expecting several underpopulated WvW realms will undergo some form of merge, regardless of what the merge is called or marketed as. This is the technically the easiest way to solve the glaring coverage and scoring system problems in WvW. But this is the worst change the community can go through. Merging is probably only a matter of transferring account data to another hard-drive, and shutting down the hard ware.

I can imagine coding a new scoring algorithm could be extremely complicated and take numerous man hours to complete. The merge would only take hours to complete mainly depending on data transfer speed and amount of data transferred. It frees up state of the art servers to be used for other purposes by NCSOFT.

EDIT: My previous post on the Traits General Feedback Thread, explains what I would like to see changed in GW2, and why.

I want to be proven wrong about my suspicions, but I’m not optimistic about it.

There was a MASSIVE outcry for scoring system literally within a month or so after launch. This was back when “coverage” was called “night capping”. I remember a dev saying something along the lines of “We don’t want to change the scoring system in a way that peoples contributions at certain times of day are worth less than others”. Which I found hilarious because that is EXACTLY how it currently is.

No one can try and defend ArenaNet’s behavior anymore. Even if coding a new scoring system is complicated, they’ve had almost 2 years to do so. They’ve also had 2 years to communicate with the WvW community and have only done so a handful of times and often only when pressed. Before GW2 released I would have said that ArenaNet was one of the best MMO developers, now however, they get failing grades in almost every aspect. Their balance team is easily the worst of any AAA mmo; even a lot of indie and asian MMO’s are a lot better. Communication is obviously a great big F. Their design decisions are almost always somewhere south of atrocious, just look at the trait system changes. I can’t really think of a whole lot that they do well anymore.

I think the community just needs to face facts, anything that could possibly make this game drastically better won’t happen anytime in the near future, if ever. ArenaNet has some major issues to deal with internally before they can fix things. I’m not sure if it’s money issues, staffing issues, management issues, working on an expansion, pure incompetence, or what, but that really doesn’t matter. What does matter is that it gets handled and more importantly when? Until then you might as well talk to your pillow because at least after your words fall on deaf ears you’ve still got a useful pillow :P

Well at least the game’s free. Amirightguys?

Shadow.3475:

Valdemas and the you woke up or?

Yeah, I woke up and had to change my soiled sheets.