Guild Wars 2

So having come from ESO btp i have to say GW2 is better in just about every aspect. I wont be leaving it to go back to eso. But i must point out something that only people who have played both should comment on. Or have at least done their homework. WvW.
The wvw in Eso was vastly superior in just about every way. No zerging for the most part. Large group fights yes. But not a zerg in the sense of running thru the enemy like a herd of gazelle. You have large numbers in epic controntations. Or small skirmishes. But you dont have what ive seen in gw2. Why do i know this. Because when i got to gw2 i was like wtf is this? I had never experienced such a thing as the herd. Its lame as hell. eso we would fight over something as important as a bridge for hours. Going back and forth over what side we held even. It was an epic struggle of like 50 players per side battling back and forth for inches. Epic. It took hours sometimes fighting over land. Taking a keep and outpost back and forth from the enemy. It was amazing. gw2 you run to a keep and take it in like 2 min and move on zerging to the next like a herd of animals. No strategy to speak of. Keeps fall with ease and the “siege” aspect is laughable compared to eso and its long sieges and strategies. Keeps are small in gw2 and really feel like breaking into your neighbors house. Its hardly epic. You dont even really need seige equip. Why? Seems silly to make them so easy to take. Its just run and turn over keep after keep in a mindless run across the rather small map.
Now where eso went horribly wrong was balance after vet levels imo. Pre vet was the most epic fun ive had in pvp. But once you hit vet you are put in the same map with v14 chars. The end gamers with end game gear. Screw the so called scaling. It doesnt even matter when you still get 2 shotted cause all they give you is more hps. 20% hp increase when the enemy is doing 5x more damage than you is meaningless. They need to split up the wvw (cyrodiil) into chunks. Like V1 to V6 then V7 to V13. Then all the end gamers together. V14s only fighting v14. make it about skill not lvls like gw2 spvp. Love that btw. I quit eso mainly because i was tired of getting ganked off my horse and dying before the animation had me even hit the ground by lvl V14s picking on my V1. Its like high school kids going to the elementary school and kicking kitten to feel good about themselves. I left due to bad balance. I wont return due to gw2 being way better. Please fix the wvw though in gw. Play eso for a second devs and see what you are doing wrong and see what great potential is out there with truly epic “risk” type land grabbing. No more zerging please.
A way to easily fix the zerg is to remove commander tags btw. Its those tags that allow players to log in then find the pile. eso had many smaller parties with their own leaders that communicted via chat. There was no marker to know where to head. You would pick one of the many places under attack and join one of the many parties fighting there. This made it so there were many smaller groups doing their own parts. Not the whole server following a commander tag in a herd. That is really mindless and lacks any real depth for me.
And please no comments on there are ways to beat a zerg. I know there are. But they are mostly about avoiding it. I didnt play pvp to avoid the pvp. Lets just not have a zerg. Play eso a moment or watch vids. Its combat not running away from players spamming buttons as they run past.

Eyefeeder.9876:

The wvw in Eso was vastly superior in just about every way. No zerging for the most part. Large group fights yes. But not a zerg in the sense of running thru the enemy like a herd of gazelle. You have large numbers in epic controntations. Or small skirmishes. But you dont have what ive seen in gw2. Why do i know this. Because when i got to gw2 i was like wtf is this? I had never experienced such a thing as the herd. Its lame as hell. eso we would fight over something as important as a bridge for hours. Going back and forth over what side we held even. It was an epic struggle of like 50 players per side battling back and forth for inches. Epic. It took hours sometimes fighting over land. Taking a keep and outpost back and forth from the enemy. It was amazing. gw2 you run to a keep and take it in like 2 min and move on zerging to the next like a herd of animals. No strategy to speak of. Keeps fall with ease and the “siege” aspect is laughable compared to eso and its long sieges and strategies. Keeps are small in gw2 and really feel like breaking into your neighbors house. Its hardly epic. You dont even really need seige equip. Why? Seems silly to make them so easy to take. Its just run and turn over keep after keep in a mindless run across the rather small map.

I have often said that ESO AvA is technically superior and still stand by that, but many people like the faster paced action based combat of GW2 – which is why I think GW2 WvW is far more fun. You can join a border and go join the battle. Even as a solo/duo/triple roamer, you can be taking a camp, killing dollys, killing other small groups. Hell you can even try to take a tower. EB is a constant battlefield when you want bigger engagements.

Unless ESO has been completely rebalanced since last I played it, it was fun in theory. In practice however, you often get bogged down with the strategical battles (I dont find it fun to fight 100vs100 over a bridge for 2 hours, sorry. Epic yes, fun no). In GW2, at least that happen inside keeps most of the time (2 hour battles over a garrison is not uncommon, lol). If you want to have some quick fun in ESO its simply impossible, because you need a 20 man army to capture the simplest of objects. Hell, I think I spent more time in the dungeons in AvA than I did fighting the war.

Did they rebalance small scale stuff? Have they added any sort of command structure yet? Anything to help out organisation? Fixed the spawn tents, hopefully lol.

morrolan.9608:

kefro.9312:

GW2 is the best at wvw in all mmo…

No its not, Dawdler has it right about ESO. The ESO design is clearly superior.

Except for the fact that they told me, at the time, that I could not use my mouse to move around – had to use WASD – which I can’t use no matter what.

Eso also has some growing to do. I remember when gw2 came out the lag coming out of stealth making thieves perma invis, the skill lag when larger groups ran into each other. Both of those things pale in comparision to the slide show cyrodil turns into when large group attack. Heck there are actual stratagies around spamming enough aoe that the enemy group will be so lagged out you wont even see them or have a chance to do anything until you are dead and watching the tail of the zerg run off.

I do enjoy the ESO set up, but with removal of forward camps and the lag issue it is to slow and frustrating to really be fun for me. Their own developers have basically said we cant fix it, spread out more. So you design content that takes time and large groups to conquer (something some people in this very thread say is what they like about it) yet ask the large groups to split up and do different stuff because they cant fix the lag.

But dont get me wrong gw2 has made improvements as far as lag goes, im sure other developers can as well. In time.

But i havent played in a month so maybe they fixed it. Or enough people quit so the group ‘spread out’ to different games.

Don’t know about that.
The most user friendly,casual oriented and polished,definitely.
But I don’t see how a real RvR player that has tried the likes of
DAOC and WAR will see GW2s WvW as the best version of open
world combat of all MMOs.
In the end,it’s just two unique medium sized map designs available
at any time,detached from the rest of the game world.
It gets to be repetitive and it is shallow.
Haven’t tried ESO yet.
I find AAs open world PvP a lot more engaging,but I wouldn’t recommend
that game to new MMO players and casuals.

Edit: If this looks out of place it’s because it was originally posted
in a thread which was titled “GW2 best WvW in all MMOs” or something like that.
I haven’t tried ESO so I don’t have anything to say about it’s open world RvR and
how it compares to GW2.

Daoc will always be the #1 rvr game, too bad they gave up on it when they thought Warhammer was going to replace it.

Taxidriver.2043:

Daoc will always be the #1 rvr game, too bad they gave up on it when they thought Warhammer was going to replace it.

Warhammer was better, let’s fight! Back me up here, Badlands!

Its good but def not the best. DAoC still holdsa that title … at least until CU comes out then the flame might have to be passed on.

Now if your talking about recent releases (last 5 years) then yes, if DAoC wasn’t so dated, it would still be far superior to GW2.

Random.4691:

… at least until CU comes out then the flame might have to be passed on.

Wont happen, the true talent from DAoC is long gone. All that’s left is a hypeman a smooth talker saying what everyone whats to hear, he wont deliver. The talent is gone.

Eyefeeder.9876:

snip

Every server I’ve been to had all: zergs, blobs, roamers – and I like them all, there’s no need to force people to play in only one way, you can still roam while the rest of your server blobbs around (I’m doing that). And we usually have got epic fights in SM.

I don’t know Eso, but I’m kind of tired of people complaining about zergs. Btw: My current server often has got no commander and we’re still a zerg, sometimes a blob. And commanders help a lot, once you’ve run across a really good commander you’ll understand what they can do and how being with or without a commander/good commander changes the fight.

Aenaos.8160:

Don’t know about that.
The most user friendly,casual oriented and polished,definitely.
But I don’t see how a real RvR player that has tried the likes of
DAOC and WAR will see GW2s WvW as the best version of open
world combat of all MMOs.
In the end,it’s just two unique medium sized map designs available
at any time,detached from the rest of the game world.
It gets to be repetitive and it is shallow.
Haven’t tried ESO yet.
I find AAs open world PvP a lot more engaging,but I wouldn’t recommend
that game to new MMO players and casuals.

QFT ^

Warhammer was way better than GW2 or ESO’s WvW.

The one thing I really miss from Warhammer was NO PVE MOBS IN THE RVR LAKES. It is so dumb how easy it is to get rezed off of a NPC mob. As if the downed state isn’t enough to deal now I also have to watch npc’s rez downed thieves.

I miss that and 150 yard whitelion fetches.

ESO WvW is more epic indeed (specially since there is no AoE cap), but they made it too unforgivable to characters that are not high-level/geared veterans and it takes too long to get there, so most of us gave up on it. For those that are vet 14 fully geared it does seem amazing, but I was always getting 1-2-shoted in that game so I came back to GW2.

No no no most Epic fights i ever hand was in Knight Online, there 1 8man Group cod fight against 30-40 and win if they were good. And if you were abit AFK you were dead in less than 2sec, why that was so fun was you had class that was unique like Healers that healed, warrior that took damage/gave damage, Assassin that cod stealth and run fast, heal them self and do kittenload of damage but died easy, mage that cod chose damage=fire, help was light/ice were they slowed down enemy and all mage had teleport skill so they selected 1 in group and teleported it to it place, so usually you had 1-2healers were one was battle healer (good damage and debuffs, low armor) 2-3 mage so they cod run different directions and the one with list enemy following TP all to him, 1-3 warriors, 1-3assassin (rangers everyone hated).
And they had penalty’s that was extreme, if you died you lost 50% off the coin you had on you to the enemy (if you forgot to place it in bank) if you died by NPC you lost 5% exp and at high lvl 1% exp took about 1hour to gain and it was extreme grind, that was battle priest/assassin cod go alone to exp spot and simple damage warrior that was tanking mobs so he had like 5% hp left get killed by mob then mob ran killed rest off part and you laugh as hell. More Sin cod stealth and run in to enemy camp were tower defended, do 1combo and then fast type /town and if you had 50% or more hp it worked otherwise tower killed you and 5% lost, cod also use Mage to tp away sin, warrior with healer cod tank towers and let sin/mage run in kill enemy in start area (usually they had coin on them there), I remember one player that had a lot off coin on him and we killed him saw it so Warrior in tank healer heal let’s kill him again and again and again so he lose all coin ? (he curst use and every orc hunted our clan after that).

More sin and rangers cod have a skill running so all in the party saw enemy’s in stealth when they were close, so a mage (usually mage or BP) that the sin picked to kill when he ran in to start area cod se the hidden sin and just before he attacked hit him so stealth went away and towers killed him.

And you had to choose, for damage on priest you had to sacrifice protection, all armor was set so priest armor need int and to damage priest need str to carry warrior weapon, but when they add so much str they cod only use lvl 2 of 6lvl armor.

More they had evil anvil were you cod upgraded armor/weapon to lvl 10 (epic was lvl 8 or higher) but to make 1 lvl 8 you need about 50 lvl 7 (49 failed and was no more) and to make a lvl 7 you need 10 lvl 6 and so on. So more then 1 a friend of your all of a sudden had a lvl 6 instead of a lvl 8 weapon because he tried his luck in evil anvil.

Best way to remove zerg is to change WvW completely.

Even without a tag, players have map chat ans TS, you just tell everyone where you are, and a zerg forms.

Guild groups who dont want to zerg start off small and untagged, but eventually, either becuase you cause orange swords or pugs run into you, you end up creating a zerg where pugs refuse to leave you alone.

We were hoping the new HoT map and changes would help, but so far things has gonnen worse where the new maps seem more like EOTMv2 and the changes mean less defending and upgrading required.

Svarty.8019:

Taxidriver.2043:

Daoc will always be the #1 rvr game, too bad they gave up on it when they thought Warhammer was going to replace it.

Warhammer was better, let’s fight! Back me up here, Badlands!

Praag/Dark Crag representing, Badlands in the end with everyone else. My Choppa would have eaten these melee alive. Parry/Riposte FTW.

That said I wouldn’t mind seeing a map rotation like WAR, the push and pull of the map conquest keep things interesting and I could see it working in conjunction w/ PPT and PPK. It would even allow for mid-week resets as maps locked and unlocked.

ohh man Warhammer fights.. Chosen vs War Priest… OMG , witch hunter vs witch elf… these were legendary matchups!!

RvR was amazing you would stay gridlocked for hours in the frontline not moving just trying to gain a few inches so your backline could attack.

“My name? Long ago such worthless details fell from memory. I know only the lust for glorious battle – for blood, for victory! I seek only the Eye of Tzeentch – his favour, his grace, his Dark Gifts – that through them, I may be remade – reborn! Why do we raid your lands? Why do we burn your homes? Why do we flay your flesh? To serve the Lord of Change and his magnificent designs.”
– An unknown Chosen of Tzeentch

The old day of daoc alot of us played 24 hrs straight no sleep at all, the action was just too good to go to bed.

With GW2 its like omg its 11pm time to sleep bye.

Taxidriver.2043:

Daoc will always be the #1 rvr game, too bad they gave up on it when they thought Warhammer was going to replace it.

Ummmmm, no. Dark Age of Crappalot died cause the game was simply put “drab”. I alone took 30ish+ active people with me straight out of DAOC the moment WoW open beta hit. We jumped and never looked back. And I know there were at least 3-4 other guilds on my server alone doign exact same thing, keep in mind that games population wasnt that great to begin with.

Taxidriver.2043:

The old day of daoc alot of us played 24 hrs straight no sleep at all, the action was just too good to go to bed.

With GW2 its like omg its 11pm time to sleep bye.

I played wolfenstein 3d 8 hours straight and now i get bored after hour when i play cs go.

At the OP, you most certainly cannot steamroll any objective with no problems in the higher tier WvW servers. I’ve seen keep seiges that last several hours, slowly draining the enemy’s defenses until his walls come down, leading to a long wrestle for control of the lord’s room. The zergs get a lot more interesting in higher tiers, especially with teamspeak.

So OP, if u want small scale fights just go spvp. WvW is exactly about zergling. Even if they remove comm tag guilds will still keep zergling and randoms blobing by simply getting into ts3 and targetting leader. It is actually in ppl mentality( more kills, more lootbags, bigger win chance) to zerg / blob and u can’t do anything to remove it. Also zergs aren’t about spamming skills, to play in zerg u need skills too to beat enemy zerg / blob. The only set-up without need for skill is blob( i.e. 30+ man groups). As for ppt, to cap a keep in higher tier( T1-T5) u need a lot of sieges, strategies etc. it is mindless ktrain when u go EoTM or low tier servers. Ohhh and last thing about keeps size in gw2 – eso, cos it is very simple why they are smaller here. Answer is: lack of mounts. Just count how long u need to run from wurm gate to s gate at bay and then go to eso and count how long u need to travel with mount form north to south of “keep”. It is similar time.

Kasteros.9847:

So OP, if u want small scale fights just go spvp. WvW is exactly about zergling. Even if they remove comm tag guilds will still keep zergling and randoms blobing by simply getting into ts3 and targetting leader. It is actually in ppl mentality( more kills, more lootbags, bigger win chance) to zerg / blob and u can’t do anything to remove it. Also zergs aren’t about spamming skills, to play in zerg u need skills too to beat enemy zerg / blob. The only set-up without need for skill is blob( i.e. 30+ man groups). As for ppt, to cap a keep in higher tier( T1-T5) u need a lot of sieges, strategies etc. it is mindless ktrain when u go EoTM or low tier servers. Ohhh and last thing about keeps size in gw2 – eso, cos it is very simple why they are smaller here. Answer is: lack of mounts. Just count how long u need to run from wurm gate to s gate at bay and then go to eso and count how long u need to travel with mount form north to south of “keep”. It is similar time.

sPvP and small scale WvW fights are completely different…

Lunacy Solacio.6514:

Kasteros.9847:

So OP, if u want small scale fights just go spvp. WvW is exactly about zergling. Even if they remove comm tag guilds will still keep zergling and randoms blobing by simply getting into ts3 and targetting leader. It is actually in ppl mentality( more kills, more lootbags, bigger win chance) to zerg / blob and u can’t do anything to remove it. Also zergs aren’t about spamming skills, to play in zerg u need skills too to beat enemy zerg / blob. The only set-up without need for skill is blob( i.e. 30+ man groups). As for ppt, to cap a keep in higher tier( T1-T5) u need a lot of sieges, strategies etc. it is mindless ktrain when u go EoTM or low tier servers. Ohhh and last thing about keeps size in gw2 – eso, cos it is very simple why they are smaller here. Answer is: lack of mounts. Just count how long u need to run from wurm gate to s gate at bay and then go to eso and count how long u need to travel with mount form north to south of “keep”. It is similar time.

sPvP and small scale WvW fights are completely different…

Only with builds, cos u can play max 10 v 10 at pvp so small scale and not zerg( for me zerg is 15-29) – that is what OP didn’t want.

Eyefeeder.9876:

…

The wvw in Eso was vastly superior in just about every way. No zerging for the most part. Large group fights yes. But not a zerg in the sense of running thru the enemy like a herd of gazelle. You have large numbers in epic controntations. Or small skirmishes. But you dont have what ive seen in gw2. Why do i know this. Because when i got to gw2 i was like wtf is this? I had never experienced such a thing as the herd. Its lame as hell. eso we would fight over something as important as a bridge for hours. Going back and forth over what side we held even. It was an epic struggle of like 50 players per side battling back and forth for inches. Epic. It took hours sometimes fighting over land. Taking a keep and outpost back and forth from the enemy. It was amazing. gw2 you run to a keep and take it in like 2 min and move on zerging to the next like a herd of animals. No strategy to speak of. Keeps fall with ease and the “siege” aspect is laughable compared to eso and its long sieges and strategies. Keeps are small in gw2 and really feel like breaking into your neighbors house. Its hardly epic. You dont even really need seige equip. Why? Seems silly to make them so easy to take. Its just run and turn over keep after keep in a mindless run across the rather small map.
…..

you are unlucky mate . you are playing gw2 in wrong server and with wrong wvw guilds.

in my server we are not give up any tower / keep without strong resist , even outnumbered . in offensive mode we can pressure a tower /keep for hours too .

3 hours to take a t3 garrison under tones of superior sieges and a whole server against us with only 25 men , it is not an easy task in prime time . https://www.facebook.com/unionofaurora/photos/pb.334990736629389.-2207520000.1432883102./393735307421598/?type=3&theater

basically you describe the “pirate ship” zerg fights , and you think this is epic ? BS !!! pirate ship fights have zero tactic or strategy . one team stays in a side and the other team to the other side and the range damage dealers pew pew the fools that stay inside their range .

gw2 zerg fights are far better than pirating style zerg fights . we fight body to body with our enemies and the tactics change every second because of synergy skills and time cool-downs .

p.s. when the gw2 zerg fight will change to full pirating style the wvw will die !

I was going to write a long post ‘til I read Reborn’s reply.

I agree with Reborn, it sounds like you are playing on the wrong server or tier for what you’re looking for. it could also be that you’re playing in a TZ that is steamrolled by a certain server, because T2 NA prime is not how you describe at all.

Tongku.5326:

Taxidriver.2043:

Daoc will always be the #1 rvr game, too bad they gave up on it when they thought Warhammer was going to replace it.

Ummmmm, no. Dark Age of Crappalot died cause the game was simply put “drab”. I alone took 30ish+ active people with me straight out of DAOC the moment WoW open beta hit. We jumped and never looked back. And I know there were at least 3-4 other guilds on my server alone doign exact same thing, keep in mind that games population wasnt that great to begin with.

I don’t agree with you at all. I played from 2001 until the release of Warhammer and loved every minute of it. Your friends followed you? Cool. My friends stayed with DAOC and we had a blast running 8 mans for nearly a decade. Neither Warhammer nor GW2 has anything on the the commitment of players and server pride that I saw in DAOC.

I solo’d in DAoC

I prefer GW2 wvw ESO map was just too kitten big with little to nothing in there so it became running/riding simulator to me as i die alot in pvp i got no skills in either games but i still enjoyed both GW 2 just is more fun when i can run back faster after death
+ESO lag was unbearable