Guild Wars 2

Offair.2563:

Why fix something that is not broken. Our commanders never whine about being sniped.
Time to improve?

Anet wants to make the WvW more fun for casuals, so it is broken.

Malediktus.3740:

And that is exactly why its a cheesy tactic which should be fixed. I can understand any commander who gives up on commanding because of this sniping.

Me too. That is why sniping is an excellent strategy. Not only do you win fights, but you also demotivate the enemy. That is how wars are won.

Sorel.4870:

Malediktus.3740:

And that is exactly why its a cheesy tactic which should be fixed. I can understand any commander who gives up on commanding because of this sniping.

Me too. That is why sniping is an excellent strategy. Not only do you win fights, but you also demotivate the enemy. That is how wars are won.

But this is a game which people play to have fun, not a real war. Otherwise people should stop complaining about trolls, spies, hackers, etc, too. Because everything is fair in war.

Malediktus.3740:

Sorel.4870:

Malediktus.3740:

And that is exactly why its a cheesy tactic which should be fixed. I can understand any commander who gives up on commanding because of this sniping.

Me too. That is why sniping is an excellent strategy. Not only do you win fights, but you also demotivate the enemy. That is how wars are won.

But this is a game which people play to have fun, not a real war. Otherwise people should stop complaining about trolls, spies, hackers, etc, too. Because everything is fair in war.

You don’t need a spy to know who the enemy commander is, they’re all easy to spot. If the commander falls and people get demotivated, then the enemy zerg wins, simple as that. There’s nothing to fix here.

Sorel.4870:

Malediktus.3740:

And that is exactly why its a cheesy tactic which should be fixed. I can understand any commander who gives up on commanding because of this sniping.

Me too. That is why sniping is an excellent strategy. Not only do you win fights, but you also demotivate the enemy. That is how wars are won.

“Demotivate”? So you don’t have anything to fight? Lol terrific!

Honestly, it’s a matter of sportsmanship. While there are steps to deal with pin snipe, it’s a shame when blobs use it on smaller teams.

Someone once told me that there are not bad soldiers, just bad leaders hahah So if your commander keeps getting sniped he might want to find a different tactic.. In my current match up I know who the driver is yet it is a guild group and I will say he is hard to snipe out because he realizes that I’m on to him and then they start to turn the focus onto me.

Guild group commanders I find harder to take out. Not saying it can’t be done but they usually have a good front line around them making it harder to get too. I still try though.

Pug commanders think everyone will listen, stack and push when in reality that is not the case. Pug commanding and guild commanding take two different tactics if you ask me.. I’m mainly a pug commander but have tagged along with many guild groups over my time. The guild groups do much better yet some of them don’t do too well when they pug command. Others do extremely well in both guilds and pugs..

Not going to explain my tactic of pug commanding since I think that is something you need to learn but will say this:

I’m about to hit rank 4k pretty soon and when I tag, I can tag for 8+ hours if I want.. Not once in all my times of pug commanding have I ever been sniped out. I’m usually the last man standing but that has to do with my tactic and the build I use. Once you learn how to pug command you will never have to worry about being sniped..

Now if your guild commander is getting sniped we’ll he needs to find a new tactic. Also a lot of players will focus ele’s and necro’s but I don’t see them guys here complaining about being sniped out from the back line..

Note: I haven’t had the time to go everything here, but gonna leave this behind…

Again, there are just some fatal flaws which will not make it easy to implement.

The thing is, how can you gauge what kind of group “needs” a commander when servers run in all sorts of different sizes? I know it was set to 10 alive players, but what happens 10 when you have a 10 vs 9 where someone with a tag has a rather big snowball advantage? No matter what number you set, this is going to create an N-1 imbalance that would be far more severe than commander sniping.

The other assumption is that a group needs a commander. What if we have pugs who can’t afford one and all the commanders are asleep? Commander sniping hurts disorganized pugs the most, obviously, but putting them against an organized group that has the commander buff while they don’t? That would be a form of vertical progression that may not be desirable. You’re going to hurt the casuals the most when they need it the most.

I think you need to look at it from a broader perspective. Currently, the topic is too specific. You have to think about what leads to pins being focused down. What do you think of abilities like moa or stuff like infinite cc/immobilize and other abilities that can easily destroy players? If you find those things disagreeable, it may be more practical to focus on that because when we get too narrow, the solutions become too arbitrary.

Anyhow, according to my own anecdotes (and my server is a very pug and thus pin dependent server), our commander often gets shot down many times during a fight, and I’ve been able to pick them up with just some allied cover and sometimes on a ele and we have some very good opponents that are capable of strong spikes. And yes, they also can instantly kill me too, but hey, you don’t expect to walk into a warzone without taking a few bumps.

Malediktus.3740:

Again that does not work with random people. You cannot expect random people (pugs) to move as a unity as soon as the leader is dead. It just turns instantly into a cloud formation and most people will try to get ooc to waypoint. The rest will die helplessly.
To profit from the 5 people aoe cap you have to stick together or are you heavily disadvantaged.

additional commanders are also no solution (not to mention very few people are good enough to start commanding on the fly) since you will not see their tags if you joined the squad of the 1st commander.

Don’t join squad. Ever. There’s really no reason to, especially now that different-color tags exist. (In b4 /squadinfo: /supplyinfo is vastly superior to /squadinfo; don’t use /squadinfo!)

Malediktus.3740:

I think the commander focus meta needs a fix.

Why?

Malediktus.3740:

But this is a game which people play to have fun, not a real war. Otherwise people should stop complaining about trolls, spies, hackers, etc, too. Because everything is fair in war.

I get your point: the game should stay fun. But there are plenty of popular games where you use strategies to demoralize your opponent in order to win. Think about Monopoly for example. Killing the commander requires a good coordination and a minimum of skill (a lot more than following a commander, by the way). So if it works, I see no reason for it to be rewarded. It can be countered by having more than one commandant, or by having a particularly tanky commander in nomad gear.

WvW is already a lot about mind games. If a zerg gets wiped too many times, the players go to bed, allowing your world to cap stuff. Pin-snipping is just another aspect of this undermining.

Whats fun if players go to bed? If I want to do karma train I can switch to a different border land or play eotm. At least on SFR there are quite a few commanders who rather go sleeping, too, if the enemies go sleeping because karma train is not what they are looking for.
I would rather wipe on purpose every now and then just to not make the enemies quit (its both more fun and good to advance my achievement if there are enemies around)

Malediktus.3740:

Whats fun if players go to bed? If I want to do karma train I can switch to a different border land or play eotm. At least on SFR there are quite a few commanders who rather go sleeping, too, if the enemies go sleeping because karma train is not what they are looking for.
I would rather wipe on purpose every now and then just to not make the enemies quit (its both more fun and good to advance my achievement if there are enemies around)

Ur never gonna get the achievements anyway mb dominator the rest u can just forget about and those r faster in eotm.
Also if u cant think without commander well all i can i gl with ultimate dominator.

http://www.sirlin.net/ptw-book/introducingthe-scrub

“In reality, the “scrub” has many more mental obstacles to overcome than anything actually going on during the game. The scrub has lost the game even before it starts. He’s lost the game even before deciding which game to play. His problem? He does not play to win.

The scrub would take great issue with this statement for he usually believes that he is playing to win, but he is bound up by an intricate construct of fictitious rules that prevents him from ever truly competing. These made-up rules vary from game to game, of course, but their character remains constant."

worth a read. might open your mind.

The book costs 10 USD, I rather use the money for gems.

commander sniping only affects pug zergs … and because all pug zergs deserves to die I see no problem

no rly what is the problem here? if you find yourself getting sniped get more defensive build or use shadow command …

there is nothing to fix it’s just l2p issue

choovanski.5462:

http://www.sirlin.net/ptw-book/introducingthe-scrub

“In reality, the “scrub” has many more mental obstacles to overcome than anything actually going on during the game. The scrub has lost the game even before it starts. He’s lost the game even before deciding which game to play. His problem? He does not play to win.

The scrub would take great issue with this statement for he usually believes that he is playing to win, but he is bound up by an intricate construct of fictitious rules that prevents him from ever truly competing. These made-up rules vary from game to game, of course, but their character remains constant."

worth a read. might open your mind.

Not really, playing to win DOTA 2 at Dreamhack, fair enough, playing to win regardless of fun in a broken a format that is an uncompetitive joke like WvW, is irrelevant and best left to noobs who have just started the game and don’t know any better yet.

Malediktus.3740:

The book costs 10 USD, I rather use the money for gems.

“The entire book is free to read here on the web.”:

http://www.sirlin.net/ptw

Which means the specific article he linked is also free.

zinkz.7045:

choovanski.5462:

http://www.sirlin.net/ptw-book/introducingthe-scrub

“In reality, the “scrub” has many more mental obstacles to overcome than anything actually going on during the game. The scrub has lost the game even before it starts. He’s lost the game even before deciding which game to play. His problem? He does not play to win.

The scrub would take great issue with this statement for he usually believes that he is playing to win, but he is bound up by an intricate construct of fictitious rules that prevents him from ever truly competing. These made-up rules vary from game to game, of course, but their character remains constant."

worth a read. might open your mind.

Not really, playing to win DOTA 2 at Dreamhack, fair enough, playing to win regardless of fun in a broken a format that is an uncompetitive joke like WvW, is irrelevant and best left to noobs who have just started the game and don’t know any better yet.

i can’t see why people should not play to win in wvw. if not win by ppt, by winning all their fights. all the gvg guilds I’ve ran with and talk to on TS find wining their fights fun. many use killshot warriors to kill commanders and other targets. I know for a fact they are having fun with it because they told me. one got 3 downs with one killshot in a gvg, it was a highlight moment.