Guild Wars 2

People (including me) complain that the “commander” pin is paid in gold and not earned. Go to Lion’s Arch during any given day, and you can see a dozen “commanders” roaming all over the place….yet you NEVER see them on the battlefield nor leading anyone. Fine. It’s just crafters and such preening (hey! look at me! I had 100 gold and all I got was this lousy blue icon!). However, on the battlefield, it can get annoying and confusing with 3 or more commander pins all over the map.

Soooo…..a suggestion….mixed with an additional suggested change (haha). Coming from WARhammer in the past, I liked the “warband” concept. This allows essentially the creation of a “party of parties”. So a “commander” could invite other parties (5 in our case). And let’s say you could have a limit of 4-6 (that would be 20-30 people in a warband for those playing at home or slow with math haha). So what does this buy you? Well, you could then have your own warband chat channel to coordinate and you could see (blue dots) all of your own warband party members on the map. You could still use /t or /m to communicate with the rest of the players out of party/warband (or just use your good ol’ Teamspeak and not worry over it haha).

Now to take this a step further…..I think you should have YOUR commander’s pin in blue and any others on the map in another color (orange?). So then on a map, you would see your commander of your warband, you warband party members and only other commanders (orange icon?). Actually, it would be nice to allow players to choose their own custom colors for these icons/dots on the map, but maybe that’s further out. haha

Lastly, it would be nice if there was a “commanders’ channel”…and I am not talking about for commanders in the same map to communicate….I mean this would allow commanders across ALL WvW maps to communicate and coordinate (something no easily done in Teamspeak even).

Just a few thoughts. Feel free to add your own constructive criticism and ideas.

Well, there’s something partially like this already.

Squads have a finite limit of players that can join. You can join in one of three ways: through the party menu, by finding the commander and right clicking his portrait on the top of the screen, or by opening your map and clicking on his commander icon there.

From there, you can still make your own parties. You’re not limited to /party or /squad chat. Combined with /team, you then have three hierarchies of communication. The commander also has access to /squadinfo to make sure people are still following him.

From there, it would be great if we had a fourth hierarchy of chat, /world, that allowed people to call for help between all of the borderlands. While in PvE it could be used to gather people for events all across the hugeness of Tyria. But both of these uses depend on people not spamming the channel; it’ll need to have a very impeding message limit to frequency to keep bots/gold sellers out and keep people from going on and on about their day instead of using it for essential information.

This is how it should have been from the beginning.

My guild runs as a “warband”, 15-30 people usually. The Commander status is very lackluster for it’s pricetag. Since we’re on comms, /squad is redundant and the only thing Commander does is make it easier for the new recruits to follow the warband.

From my perspective I would add some points the commander needs:
- streamlined user interface to see and organize parties in a warband (25 people?)
- Ability to see warband supplies without having to type /squadinfo every time.
- Ability to make the warband “private”, sometimes you don’t want pugs following you.

the correct generic cross game term for multi group groups is a “raid group” despite the connotatiosn of being related to wow/eq style pve raid dungeons, in actuality those dungeons are so named because they use raid grouping.

a raid group is little more than an organization quality of life tool to reduce time spent juggling groups and on the ui in general.

the advertised motto of gw2’s ui paradigm is supposedly “play the game not the ui” and yet i spend less time playing the game because i must instead fight the ui.

i’ve been asking since beta for simple basic raid group functionality. i’m surprised it has become a more popular suggestion since, and i’m glad that we’re seeing it.

the basic raid group needs the follow for starters:

20 slots
simple raid party frame(the current “simple” party frame would work
same functionality of the current basic grouping in terms of map and markers extended.

possible alternative:
lineage 2 style where groups are formed first, then join a multigroup alliance type deal. it’s been so long i forget the details, but i remember it being a huge leg up from the previous paradigm in l2 where when we were raiding bosses or doing mass pvp and sieges it was simply a lot of individual groups. this might solve the nice to have thing below.

nice to have:
multiple but reasonably limited call target marks- this could be done by setting the player to some function, like target caller 1,2,3,4.

every wvw session my guild does together, we field 15+ people, and have to do several group checks to see if we need to split groups further so every one has a group.

additionally we spend a great deal of time and effort asking where everyone is, simply because we can not see each other on the map.

ofc adding proper basic standard raid group ui functionality to gw2 takes away the edge my guild has in wvw due to our seemingly superior communication and organization, but i’d trade that in a heart beat for the quality of life and lack of constant hassle that the current system provides.

I don’t think this would be too difficult to implement…at the very least, color coded commander icons. I do hope they expand it to allow “party of parties”….and even then, adding in functionality for guild alliances would be nice as well (a la WAR but even moreso).

Syndic.4762:

This is how it should have been from the beginning.

My guild runs as a “warband”, 15-30 people usually. The Commander status is very lackluster for it’s pricetag. Since we’re on comms, /squad is redundant and the only thing Commander does is make it easier for the new recruits to follow the warband.

From my perspective I would add some points the commander needs:
- streamlined user interface to see and organize parties in a warband (25 people?)
- Ability to see warband supplies without having to type /squadinfo every time.
- Ability to make the warband “private”, sometimes you don’t want pugs following you.

This sounds almost exactly what our guild would like. Warhammer’s warband system could be customized and used for any possible situation or scenario. Right now I’d simply be happy to see a “private” option for commander and squads.

I really think just having some type of raid/squad channel where you invite people to this system and you get the following:
1.)You can see the players on the map as blue dots
2.)You can chat with them in /raid /squad or whatever

Don’t need anything more complicated than that to make a difference.

Allow maybe 40 or 50 people max.

nightfend.4072:

I really think just having some type of raid/squad channel where you invite people to this system and you get the following:
1.)You can see the players on the map as blue dots
2.)You can chat with them in /raid /squad or whatever

Don’t need anything more complicated than that to make a difference.

Allow maybe 40 or 50 people max.

So basically a commander and squad system…. but with no pin visible to allies on the map. (except those currently in your squad)

I love that idea. I would love to see all the players following the commander as blue dots and allow each of us to see each other. It would make things a lot easier for newbies / pubs.

similar to WoW raid system (also allowing the commander to see the health bars of everyone in his / her raid)

lots of improvements needed for the C&S system, it still feels like it’s in beta.

Oh wait… it IS the same system from BW1. Time for a major facelift on the C&S system, but i read they have no plans to address it anytime soon.

I don’t know how arenanet got this so wrong.

Take for example Planetside 2: You have a platoon which is made up of 4 squads. Each squad is 12 members and has their own colour coding. You have a platoon commander who can administer the members of each squad, and then you have squad commanders who manage their own squad. On the map you can always see all members of your platoon and identify them by their number and colour code. Squad leaders can set squad waypoints which all members of the squad can see, platoon leaders can set platoon waypoints which all squads can see.

Now to join a squad you are either invited in the case of private squads or squad leaders can actually advertise in a central public menu for members to join. My view is this would be simple for GW2 to implement and would be a massive improvement (instead of 12 man squads, make it 5 due to the small size of the gw2 maps and maybe call platoon, warband or raid). Might even help reduce zerging because instead of a massive commander beacon drawing all members to the one spot, you’d have to either join a warband OR find a roaming warband and try and keep up.

Make it so you only ever see your platoons commander icon (or get rid of it altogethor). I would remove map and teamchat, only allow communication within your warband. You want scouts? send out your own scouts instead of being able to rely on any random person on the map. It would be bypassable via outside comms, guildchat etc but it would be at least a slight improvement. Would maybe make tactical ninjas slightly easier.

Anyway none of this will ever happen, WvW is the lowest priority right now.

jason barnes.4239:

Might even help reduce zerging because instead of a massive commander beacon drawing all members to the one spot, you’d have to either join a warband OR find a roaming warband and try and keep up.

This point exactly. I see a lot of posts about people complaining about WvW zergs. There is simply no other option to create medium size multi-group raids/squads.

Having to tools to create a private 2-4 grp grouping system would create SMALLER sized forces on the map and improve the quality of WvW. Right now it’s either run a 5 man group or zerg it. Add the mechanics to allow players and guilds to form the grouping size they prefer for WvW.

Forcing people to use VoIP only for running private multiple groups is a sad solution.

I just wished commanders were not based on gold, but on WvW performance. Like, the best 3-4-5 (or whatever number seems good) players of each world on the WvW are chosen as commanders. Or the best / most participative WvW guilds are given the power to pick one of its member as a commander. That way we would be sure to have good WvW commanders dedicated to WvW, and not just a random guy with 100g.

if you are with a wvw guild (which tbh you should be if you are half serious about wvw) chances are you already are with a ‘warband’ that is your guild. Each commander tag that you see can sometimes be each guilds warband leader and is there for ease of organisation for the guild.

However there are times when there are a bunch on wealthy, unhelpful kittens that get off to the idea of leading people round for no real strategic benefit and that is when the map can begin to get unorganised and weak due to the pugs being all over the place

Commanders based on gold are ok. Look, even some smaller guilds have good commanders. But those would not do any great WvW performance.
On RoF I saw for past month many commanders who nobody followed. Because they were just bad. And some commanders who always have a huge mass of followers because they are good. So 100g for icon is OK.(yeah only 3 comms on server? more like 10. Best possibility are 2 comms on one map, left and right)

And functionality is needed. Squad need to see them on map.
There is need option to make squad private for closed guild events.
There is need to have some sort of interface (smaller party interface) to actually see who is in squad and commander need to have option to kick players fro squad.

I kind of like it. Adds a little fog of war not knowing where every person is all the time. There are times I find it extremely frustrating; but, something still keeps me coming back so there must be something to it.

“Go to Lion’s Arch during any given day, and you can see a dozen “commanders” roaming all over the place….yet you NEVER see them on the battlefield nor leading anyone…”

Hard to take this thread seriously when you don’t know how the game works. The Commander icon is not exclusive to WvW, hence, why the price of it is gold since it’s the only common currency, other than Karma, between WvW and PvE.

What about a new Legendary Orange Pin crafted using these mats :-

3x Commander Pins
1,000,000 Karma
2000 Badges
200 Laurels
XXX amount of Guild influence

Basically, make it incredibly hard to get and base it on WvW

Lacking warband frames, actual proper private commander squads, has had one huge consiquence to the metagame and culture of wvwv & guilds that people might not think about.

Think about, say, warhammer. You had guild warband, that is 4 groups of 6 people – 24 people. And every guild’s goal was to have one full warband, and work as a unit in that set-in-stone-size. Multiple guilds roaming in the RvR with most of them around the same standardised size. Blobbing multiple warbands together was despised and any people left out of the 24 were to organise their own unit.
Ofc sometimes this did not happen perfectly, but this was still the general metagame.

This does not exist in guildwars 2, with the lack of raid frames, lackluster squad and public “everyone come here”-tags. There is no guiding mechanism for creating more fair and enjoyable fights. And the standard fight size keeps going up and up, especially on servers who are driven by server wide system, public comm, because there the only limit is the zone cap.

Organised groups range from 5 man spvpers, under 15 man small scale guilds, 20-25 medium raids, 30-35 large raids, to 60+ combined blobs / server blob.
When you combine, say, large raid and a small-medium scale guild blobbing together with a hefty pug tail. Thats already 60+ people together, and the game&computers often cannot handle 100+ people fights smoothly.

I’m really of the opinion that GW2 w3 needed that guidance. A set number, by the squad size and proper private squad frames, lets say 25, that guilds would have started to work around as a goal. This would have resulted in much different wvw experience than it is atm.

Hule.8794:

yeah only 3 comms on server? more like 10. Best possibility are 2 comms on one map, left and right

Mistyped. I meant 3 to 5 comms / map / server.

Fuzzion.2504:

What about a new Legendary Orange Pin crafted using these mats :-

3x Commander Pins
1,000,000 Karma
2000 Badges
200 Laurels
XXX amount of Guild influence

Basically, make it incredibly hard to get and base it on WvW

That’s a bit much, sine people would be forced to basically PvE for the 3 commander pins, and we’d have the same problem we would have now basically, except maybe more people in the JP’s? Plus, you can get badges and the karma by just running around yakslapping and killing up leveled noobies to WvW..

What I think would be good is kinda build off your idea of guild influence. Have commanders be tied to guilds, and need certain level of upgrades, so that small guilds can have access to it and have a commander, and larger guilds could have a more proportionally. Then let the guild have a toggle of sort to say who’s the commander.

Or have it tied to certain traits, like needing T2/3 of X amount of the WvW traits and you gain it. Then you’d have to defend, you’d have to take, you’d have to kill, etc.

However they decide to change or not change the Commander & Squad system, they still need a FREE way for multiple groups to coordinate in game.

Either a Raid or private Squad system where 2-4 groups can coordinate with a dedicated chat channel, waypoints all groups can see, and different color dots for people in this new raid/squad system. Only people in this new Raid/Squad system should see the leader pin.

This is what guilds are asking for. A system for medium sized forces to coordinate without a visible pin for everyone on the map to flock to. Having a system like this will reduce “zergs” and spread the fighting over WvW maps more.

Sabull.5670:

I’m really of the opinion that GW2 w3 needed that guidance. A set number, by the squad size and proper private squad frames, lets say 25, that guilds would have started to work around as a goal. This would have resulted in much different wvw experience than it is atm.

It certainly would have given us a different and more dynamic WvW experience.

Ahm you’ve been a very naughty boy having so many good ideas across so many threads over so many months. Thank you for continuing to fight for some of these changes and helping to keep all the possibilities and suggestions fresh in everyone’s mind. I think we can be pretty safe to assume ANET is working on some kind of improvements since they’ve been acknowledging the weakness of the system since the beginning so the only question is how long we have left to wait and which direction they will take things. Hopefully special consideration is being made for guild commander options similar to like what you have been begging for. Good luck good sir and try not to strain anything cuz we need ya out there!

Totally am supporting the movement to improve the Commander pin. Digging up these old threads sadly reminds me that it unfortunately may not be a priority for ANet… but hopefully, it’ll show them that it is on the forefront of what we, the WvW community, would like improved.

Azylynne.9487:

Totally am supporting the movement to improve the Commander pin. Digging up these old threads sadly reminds me that it unfortunately may not be a priority for ANet… but hopefully, it’ll show them that it is on the forefront of what we, the WvW community, would like improved.

All we can do is hope they have actually been reading ALL the posts about the C&S grouping system and realize how frustrated and unhappy people are.

dirtyklingon.2918:

every wvw session my guild does together, we field 15+ people, and have to do several group checks to see if we need to split groups further so every one has a group.

additionally we spend a great deal of time and effort asking where everyone is, simply because we can not see each other on the map.

This. So much this. It is so frustrating that we have to stop in the middle of ops to make sure groups get split when that 11th or 16th or 21st person joins. ANet could really improve the organizational aspect of WvW.

nanker.3085:

This. So much this. It is so frustrating that we have to stop in the middle of ops to make sure groups get split when that 11th or 16th or 21st person joins. ANet could really improve the organizational aspect of WvW.

It shouldn’t be this difficult to organize small private or guild forces in a modern MMO.