Guild Wars 2

I only play GW2 for the WvW game mode and from time to time I have a look on the WvW forums. Now, with the new expansion it looks like everyone on this forum only brings in complains, either accompanied by suggestions or not.

So I wondered to the other sections of the forum and guess what.
In the PvP section everyone is complaining about class balance like DH being overpowered etc.
In the PVE section everyone is complaining about hard to kill mobs in the new maps, how stuff is very hard to grind, etc.

So don’t think for a second that people only complain about WvW, they complain about everything. So saying that WvW is dead because there are a lot of complains here, on the same note you could say that sPvP and PVE is dead too.

I have seen complaint posts about some beta notifications on the load screen, does that make it relevant to any other complain post? I complain about wvw cause i care about it, something Anet cleary does not.

While the devs listen to the PvE and PvP complaints, and made some changes already, in WvW nothing like that happens.

Except that nodes were nerfed…

Catalin.5341:

So saying that WvW is dead because there are a lot of complains here, on the same note you could say that sPvP and PVE is dead too.

Which would be even worse, since no one would be playing the game. I dont know about sPvP, but no, PvE is not dead. Join any zone and its packed with people, no matter how much they complain. Now join desert border and tell me its packed with people despite us complaining.

PVE seem fine because you have the megaserver…. You can’t know if there is 1 map or 20 at the same time.
We have 27 server in EU…. This mean 27×4 maps every time….
Try the same in PVE you will see if PVE is full or not…

1. Give WvW Players Pathes to unlock/level like in sPvP
2. WvW Autoloot
3. More Seasons with rewards for participation
4. be able to get ascended Items through WvW achievements
5. Merge Server 1st with 27th, 2nd with 26th and so on and get rid of the Full Status of 11 Server or overview the system that calculate it.
6. more WvW Mastery lines some of us are spec fully through it.
7. get rid of all pve Events in WvW players dont want them!

Just a view things that would make wvw life better and i bet there are many other ideas posted since HoT release hope the dev will take some of them.

What’s the point of this post exactly? Should I take my WvW concerns to the HoT thread or the main GW2 forum? Would that help?

Some people need to leave people alone to complain. It works both ways.

Catalin.5341:

So saying that WvW is dead because there are a lot of complains here…

Who says that?

WvW is dead due to the level of activity, the reason being as a game mode it is not functional, the basic idea of “winning” a matchup by playing for points is considered so broken due to poor design that means PvDoor > than actual fights in supposed mass scale PvP with “epic battles” by many players that it basically is ignored.

Now the problem has existed for a long time, HoT has just made it worse with the new mechanisms like auto upgrades, to the point it has even tipped many of the few players who still played for PPT and enjoyed things like scouting / upgrading over the edge.

You also have the reality that some players were deluding themselves that WvW would come alive again with the release of HoT, that the all-time-low the population had reached in the months prior to HoT would go away once HoT came out and people / guilds came back, guess what, there isn’t a huge swathe of people coming back, games rarely get a second chance, especially when essentially none of the real problems with the mode have been addressed.

WvW is done, people will go try Warhammer 40k Eternal Crusade, Crowfall, CU, etc when they release.

Now the problem has existed for a long time, HoT has just made it worse with the new mechanisms like auto upgrades, to the point it has even tipped many of the few players who still played for PPT and enjoyed things like scouting / upgrading over the edge.

I believe most of the core issues have been addressed by the new map, but haven’t been solved completely:

• Less blobbing => bigger map (versatility), less waypoints, barricades, sentries that mark enemies
• More defending => auto upgrades, lots of supplies inside objectives, more dmg from lord, more oils in towers, can’t treb one objective from another objective
• Comeback mechanic => laser event

But as you all know barricades only stop small groups not zergs, dolyaks bring in supplies too fast even if the amount carried was reduced, laser event actually helps the winning team and it’s too powerful.

zinkz.7045:

Catalin.5341:

So saying that WvW is dead because there are a lot of complains here…

Who says that?

WvW is dead due to the level of activity, the reason being as a game mode it is not functional, the basic idea of “winning” a matchup by playing for points is considered so broken due to poor design that means PvDoor > than actual fights in supposed mass scale PvP with “epic battles” by many players that it basically is ignored.

Now the problem has existed for a long time, HoT has just made it worse with the new mechanisms like auto upgrades, to the point it has even tipped many of the few players who still played for PPT and enjoyed things like scouting / upgrading over the edge.

You also have the reality that some players were deluding themselves that WvW would come alive again with the release of HoT, that the all-time-low the population had reached in the months prior to HoT would go away once HoT came out and people / guilds came back, guess what, there isn’t a huge swathe of people coming back, games rarely get a second chance, especially when essentially none of the real problems with the mode have been addressed.

WvW is done, people will go try Warhammer 40k Eternal Crusade, Crowfall, CU, etc when they release.

I know a lot of people who did decide to take a break the last few months, saying they were bored and would be back once they had a new map and new skills.. Then after the expansion hit they tried out the new map, said it was terrible and either quit WvW or just pretty much quit the game.

Catalin.5341:

I believe most of the core issues have been addressed by the new map, but haven’t been solved completely…

Not really, the core issues that actually render the game mode worthless and not fit for purpose, have not been touched, running around PvDooring avoiding fights in a mass PvP mode of “epic battles” & ticking for 400+ off-peak for hours with virtually no opponents is still the way to “win”.

Things like ‘more defending’ are a total irrelevance if most players couldn’t care less about defending in the first place because the score is neither here nor there when the game mode is not fit for purpose due to those core issues.

saturn.4810:

While the devs listen to the PvE and PvP complaints, and made some changes already, in WvW nothing like that happens.

Except that nodes were nerfed…

That is very dishonest to say. The PvE threads are full of similar complaints. The PvP threads are full of similar complaints. Every change added to WvW was demanded by multiple member of the player base in various threads. To claim the do not listen is extremely dishonest. The problem, is who they listen to, that is the issue.

Cheebavibe.6359:

What’s the point of this post exactly? Should I take my WvW concerns to the HoT thread or the main GW2 forum? Would that help?

Some people need to leave people alone to complain. It works both ways.

Yet your going to comment someone else for mentioning the notion that folks should offer constructive feedback instead of making rude complaint post. Doesn’t the content of your post, completely contradict itself?

just revert WvW to what it was problem solved..

i know some people love the new maps i absolutely hate em for multiple reasons..
its not a nice open flat ground giving u options how to go to an objective some things are completely blocked off by massive mountain forcing u to run miles around..
the auto upgrades completely pushed out any use of human, yes it was not fun to upgrade stuff and keep an eye on it too see if enemies are coming but still.. it did give me once in a while a good feeling that i manage to get something from paper into forti..

tbh for me WvW on any map is now like big fat karma train..
i didnt play much cus i dont like it anymore (sadly used to be only thing i did) but keeps got a instant waypoint on it no? etc balabal yesterday i tried play a lil again we was deffending a tpwer, outside was much much bigger blob ready to go in some1 did something (i dont know what) and they all died like flys i mean really? these stupid deffense things build inside towers / keeps are that overpowered? that ~15 people overcome a zerg of ~50 easily? kinda pathetic but whatever..

Sich.7103:

PVE seem fine because you have the megaserver…. You can’t know if there is 1 map or 20 at the same time.
We have 27 server in EU…. This mean 27×4 maps every time….
Try the same in PVE you will see if PVE is full or not…

So campaign for server merges? Seems like it would solve 90% of the issue people are having.

reddie.5861:

just revert WvW to what it was problem solved..
.

No it wouldn’t. Not even close. Then we would lose all the new irrational complaints and trade them back in for the old irrational complaints, while still having empty BLs.

The maps were not exactly full before. maybe at prime time, but not so much otherwise. PvE is crazy full at the moment, and has some really nice content, with some really nice rewards at the moment. Some even feel they “have” to complete it in order to be competitive, for the gear, ES, and what not. Others, I suspect, claim to hate the new BLs out of flat out fear of something new. Most of the people digging their heels in on disliking them, posted about it on the day of the new maps release. Which suggest to me, and likely, Anet, that you may not want to take them too seriously. The WvW community posters basically self created the issues at hand, with that sort of behavior.

Catalin.5341:

Now the problem has existed for a long time, HoT has just made it worse with the new mechanisms like auto upgrades, to the point it has even tipped many of the few players who still played for PPT and enjoyed things like scouting / upgrading over the edge.

I believe most of the core issues have been addressed by the new map, but haven’t been solved completely:

• Less blobbing => bigger map (versatility), less waypoints, barricades, sentries that mark enemies
• More defending => auto upgrades, lots of supplies inside objectives, more dmg from lord, more oils in towers, can’t treb one objective from another objective
• Comeback mechanic => laser event

But as you all know barricades only stop small groups not zergs, dolyaks bring in supplies too fast even if the amount carried was reduced, laser event actually helps the winning team and it’s too powerful.

How is the laser event a comback event? If you are outnumbered and so beat down you need a comeback, you arent going to win that event. At most you might be able to claim itnis a small step towards trying to fix night capping. Since if you get on and your whole bl is another color but the other server has all left, you can do the event and take your stuff without an issue. But that really isnt a comeback. That is more like a hand out.

And how does auto upgrades make more defending? Our server group actually seems to care less. The big thing we would fight to hold is waypointed objectives. Now waypoints are auto and the upgrades do themselves. So let them take it we will finish what we are doing, when they move on we will get it back.

And honestly i dont even think the map encourages less blobbing. I just think there are leas people playing it right now so it feels that way.

zinkz.7045:

Catalin.5341:

I believe most of the core issues have been addressed by the new map, but haven’t been solved completely…

Not really, the core issues that actually render the game mode worthless and not fit for purpose, have not been touched, running around PvDooring avoiding fights in a mass PvP mode of “epic battles” & ticking for 400+ off-peak for hours with virtually no opponents is still the way to “win”.

Things like ‘more defending’ are a total irrelevance if most players couldn’t care less about defending in the first place because the score is neither here nor there when the game mode is not fit for purpose due to those core issues.

So you think the purpose of WvW is to have large groups of players fighting. It’s a nice thought. I’m sure it’s a purpose. But the purpose?

ANet gave you a large maps with different types of objectives to have various sorts of fights in/around. You can even fight in the open field. And it’s ANet’s fault that everyone avoids fighting?

Are you going to suggest they add PPK in order to incentivize fighting? What you’ll probably end up getting is more hiding/running, to be honest. If a group doesn’t have a clear advantage in numbers, they’ll most likely run away, otherwise they’ll get destroyed to the detriment of their world.

I don’t care what system you propose. You aren’t going to be able to force people to constantly fight unless you queue for sPvP or organize a fight with another guild.

coglin.1867:

saturn.4810:

While the devs listen to the PvE and PvP complaints, and made some changes already, in WvW nothing like that happens.

Except that nodes were nerfed…

That is very dishonest to say. The PvE threads are full of similar complaints. The PvP threads are full of similar complaints. Every change added to WvW was demanded by multiple member of the player base in various threads. To claim the do not listen is extremely dishonest. The problem, is who they listen to, that is the issue.

Cheebavibe.6359:

What’s the point of this post exactly? Should I take my WvW concerns to the HoT thread or the main GW2 forum? Would that help?

Some people need to leave people alone to complain. It works both ways.

Yet your going to comment someone else for mentioning the notion that folks should offer constructive feedback instead of making rude complaint post. Doesn’t the content of your post, completely contradict itself?

Not in my eyes it doesn’t.

I’d like to question you as to what is rude about my post? Is there some foul or abusive language in there I am unaware of?

Cogbyrn.7283:

So you think the purpose of WvW is to have large groups of players fighting. It’s a nice thought. I’m sure it’s a purpose. But the purpose?

Yeah, that is its basic purpose, is to offer people that battle environment.

If your going to question it, with an implication that it is not the purpose, the least you could do is offer a reasoning that it wouldn’t be the purpose, and most of all, enlighten us on what you think the true purpose is.

zinkz.7045:

Things like ‘more defending’ are a total irrelevance if most players couldn’t care less about defending in the first place because the score is neither here nor there when the game mode is not fit for purpose due to those core issues.

There’s a lot of players who defend regardless of the score. It’s part of their favourite mode of play. I know this is the case for me — I like to do it, because it helps focus our guilds into big blowout fights. And if I can hold off the enemy long enough for our guys to arrive, then it becomes a more epic fight.

Catalin.5341:

I believe most of the core issues have been addressed by the new map, but haven’t been solved completely:

None of the issues were solved and a tonne more were added, the only reason blobbing isn’t happening is coz no one wants to travel around a borderland anymore, it’s bloody tedious and people die enroute all the time, this in turn creates a negative enviroment which effects everyone and more and more people log off alot sooner than they usually would be out of boredom or sheer frustration and this all long before they even see an enemy.

As per usual Anet have created far more problems than they have solved/addressed and as for blobbing on EB i don’t see any change and that border is the only populated border.

As for defending why should we defend, no time, energy or gold went into upgrading anything so no one cares if it flips, especially at night coz come morning everything on everyborder is T3 again with zero input.

I’ve seen that laser event mechanic used once and that was by my guild coz we were bored and our guild leader was fed up with us all complaining we were bored. i’ve not seen anyone else do it.

Everything on these new borderlands has sucked every ounce of fun out of this game, unless you’re on EB in primtime you have nothing to do coz everything is pointless and holds zero value.

Cogbyrn.7283:

So you think the purpose of WvW is to have large groups of players fighting. It’s a nice thought. I’m sure it’s a purpose. But the purpose?

Not what I said, “the purpose” should be to win the match (yet we have a game mode so poorly designed most consider “winning” as worthless), however in a mode that is supposed to be mass PvP and have “epic battles”, then if the mode was well designed that would involve a significant amount of fighting as opposed to running around PvDoor avoiding fights or logging on at 4am when there are virtually no opponents to tick for 600, a mass scale PvP mode that does not force fights to a reasonable extent is fundamentally flawed.

Cogbyrn.7283:

And it’s ANet’s fault that everyone avoids fighting?

It’s Anet’s fault they can be avoided so easily, that is down to poor design.

And not everyone avoids fighting, it has simply got worse as many of those who hold the extraordinary notion that mass scale PvP should involve some combat have left the game or only play in a guild raid at primetime doing scrims, which leaves a bigger proportion of PvDoor zombies.

Cogbyrn.7283:

I don’t care what system you propose. You aren’t going to be able to force people to constantly fight unless you queue for sPvP or organize a fight with another guild.

I don’t expect people to constantly fight, I merely expect a PvP game mode to force fights to a reasonable extent, WvW fails miserably at that, the new maps are even worse than the old in this regard.

So to take one aspect, map design, there have been other RvR type modes in other games that force fights by being more linear in design, either directly like a more lane like design, so for major objectives you have to take X before Y, or where as your area grows you can only attack objectives adjacent to the area you control, this forces fights to an extent and reduces PvDoor.

coglin.1867:

Cogbyrn.7283:

So you think the purpose of WvW is to have large groups of players fighting. It’s a nice thought. I’m sure it’s a purpose. But the purpose?

Yeah, that is its basic purpose, is to offer people that battle environment.

If your going to question it, with an implication that it is not the purpose, the least you could do is offer a reasoning that it wouldn’t be the purpose, and most of all, enlighten us on what you think the true purpose is.

I wrote this long-winded response to your challenge while I was on a work call, because I thought it was a fair challenge to make. Then I clicked “reply” and lost it because of some login error. I should have known better to save my post, and now I’m really sad.

Here’s the short version, and this is all opinion (of course). Before, I was challenging the idea that WvW has a singular purpose, not necessarily stating I had secret information as to what that purpose is.

WvW is designed to emulate the thrill of Open World PvP. The idea that you are running around accomplishing something (questing, farming mobs, killing camps, killing yaks, taking towers, whatever it may be in the game), and a fight can break out with anyone at any time. It may be one person, you may get trained, you may train one person. It could be a small skirmish, or a large one. The unknown is the thrill, and the potential for PvP while doing something else is the draw. Some just want to PvP, so they’ll choose classes that can move around quickly and attack those who are out doing something else. Classic OWPvP set-up.

As such, I actually think PvE is potentially the key to WvW. Here’s an idea I thought up that, I know, has flaws. But I’m looking to incentivize fighting in WvW, so bear with me:

In general, reduce any rewards gained for completing objectives in WvW. Add more PvE events that apply buffs for each world in that BL based on performance. I’m not talking stat-based buffs, like Bloodlust. I’m talking reward-based buffs. The winner of the event gets a buff that dramatically increases the quality of their rewards for taking towers and keeps. The losers get a buff that dramatically increases the quality of their rewards for being part of an active defense of a tower or keep. Winners utilize the buff to then try to storm around the BL with a group that really wants to take objectives. Losers utilize the buff to try to defend any and every objective they have to gain their rewards.

If a world has every objective on a map, they may throw the event, or assist one side or the other. That’s fine. Whoever then wins the event still needs to take objectives, and since they lose, they are incentivized to actively defend. If you win, you gain nothing for defense. If you lose, you gain nothing for taking objectives.

I know there are flaws, both those I can think of off the top of my head and those someone else would have to think up for me. However, I think the key to WvW success isn’t trying to jam/force PvP down everyone’s throats. There’s sPvP for that, and hopefully guild arenas assist with 20-40 man competition.

I think the key is a merging of PvE and PvP, such that PvPers have more people to fight, and fights are incentivized/localized around the map at points that are easy to determine (in the event, at objectives, etc.). PvEers add numbers and gain meaningful rewards for participating. PvPers want PvEers to fill ranks and complete events, and PvEers want PvPers to help take objectives, defend objectives, and defend them while they do events.

Those are my thoughts on the subject. I doubt there’s a very happy medium between making the rewards “too good”, so PvEers feel like they have to WvW, and making them not good enough, so no one joins anyway. I almost feel like they should make the rewards raid-quality though, so if you aren’t part of a guild doing high-level PvE content, you can participate in WvW to work on whatever gear you would otherwise be unable to get.

I don’t know. Spitballing here. I just don’t think WvW can succeed on PvP alone, regardless of how much people say there’s too much PvE in their PvP.

Anyway, not a very short version because I love Open World PvP, and I love thinking about the possibilities. And again, I don’t think my ideas are infallible, but I very emphatically don’t agree that any sort of one-dimensional solution will work.

@Zinkz: I see your point about map design, and how making it linear/requiring “influence” in an area will focus fights. I agree that could work. However, does it just make it more of a numbers game? Will people trade maps instead of just objectives on maps to avoid big blobs rolling down the lane? In DOTA 2, sometimes the best idea when they group up kitten and go down a lane is to group up kitten and go down a different lane. It isn’t always the case that you force a fight by grouping up, but I acknowledge your solution would probably help avoid circling around maps at the very least.

GROMIT.7829:

As for defending why should we defend, no time, energy or gold went into upgrading anything so no one cares if it flips, especially at night coz come morning everything on everyborder is T3 again with zero input.

Score maybe? You know, those numbers that tell you who win?

Also, when you defend, you fight players, because the enemy players are the ones making defense necessary. Don’t people want to fight people?

Zanther Deathbringer.4762:

GROMIT.7829:

As for defending why should we defend, no time, energy or gold went into upgrading anything so no one cares if it flips, especially at night coz come morning everything on everyborder is T3 again with zero input.

Score maybe? You know, those numbers that tell you who win?

PPT is not all…. You earn nothing if you win the MU… Your server don’t earn nothing if you win the MU… But building and defending a keep with WP is more interesting because you have to make something (starting upgrade, protecting doly, team work) and you have something usefull in return (the WP).

Cogbyrn.7283:

Also, when you defend, you fight players, because the enemy players are the ones making defense necessary. Don’t people want to fight people?

Which is why we usually end up fighting over SM. It is large enough to support this behavior. People break down a wall or 2 or 3 and now you have room to fight and defend.

Most the towers are to small for this. You fight with siege, which os sort of like fighting but not. Mostly you fight with line of sight not other people. Then one side breaks in and you have a short fight over the tower, both sides move on.

Wryscher.1432:

Most the towers are to small for this. You fight with siege, which os sort of like fighting but not. Mostly you fight with line of sight not other people. Then one side breaks in and you have a short fight over the tower, both sides move on.

Which could explain why the new towers on the new map are so big.

coglin.1867:

reddie.5861:

just revert WvW to what it was problem solved..
.

No it wouldn’t. Not even close. Then we would lose all the new irrational complaints and trade them back in for the old irrational complaints, while still having empty BLs.

The maps were not exactly full before. maybe at prime time, but not so much otherwise. PvE is crazy full at the moment, and has some really nice content, with some really nice rewards at the moment. Some even feel they “have” to complete it in order to be competitive, for the gear, ES, and what not. Others, I suspect, claim to hate the new BLs out of flat out fear of something new. Most of the people digging their heels in on disliking them, posted about it on the day of the new maps release. Which suggest to me, and likely, Anet, that you may not want to take them too seriously. The WvW community posters basically self created the issues at hand, with that sort of behavior.

i dunno but if we had more then 2 commanders on we had more then 2 queues going on also on any of the “4” maps.. right now its EB queue all day everyday and nothing else. wasnt to hard to fill up 2 maps easily and rest go randomly over the other 2 borderlands which might have had queues also if Guild vs Guild was going on.

sounds like something went right no?
basically i dont like anything they added into WvW with latest patch..
tho ill get used to it and suck it up but if u ask me id say pre HoT WvW was in a better state.

i dont fear anything new, i would just prefer to see a completely flat map covered in simple grass with 5 tower 6 camps and 3 keeps then this bottle neck new borderlands, not to mention i have already said in beta times that new border lands are not good and very bad designed.

i just dont like it.

but again ill suck it up and get used too it since i wont see Anet fixing anything big into WvW any time soon and for sure they wont design new maps so suck it up and move on thats my moto.

Zanther Deathbringer.4762:

GROMIT.7829:

As for defending why should we defend, no time, energy or gold went into upgrading anything so no one cares if it flips, especially at night coz come morning everything on everyborder is T3 again with zero input.

Score maybe? You know, those numbers that tell you who win?

who cares about score? too me and many others WvW is more for random encounters small fights or big fights or just the random ganks things u wont find in sPvP..
i dont think many people go like omygad need to cap X and Y and Z in order to Tick high..

only people doing this hardcore are the non international European servers. dunno why but the french the spanish and the germans only seem to care for PPT when they lose 1 fight they switch map and come back after commander has quit out of boredom cus no1 wants to fight back from these servers..

Jayne.9251:

Wryscher.1432:

Most the towers are to small for this. You fight with siege, which os sort of like fighting but not. Mostly you fight with line of sight not other people. Then one side breaks in and you have a short fight over the tower, both sides move on.

Which could explain why the new towers on the new map are so big.

It could be. Of course there is never anyone in them to fight, so i cant tell.

Sich.7103:

Zanther Deathbringer.4762:

GROMIT.7829:

As for defending why should we defend, no time, energy or gold went into upgrading anything so no one cares if it flips, especially at night coz come morning everything on everyborder is T3 again with zero input.

Score maybe? You know, those numbers that tell you who win?

PPT is not all…. You earn nothing if you win the MU… Your server don’t earn nothing if you win the MU… But building and defending a keep with WP is more interesting because you have to make something (starting upgrade, protecting doly, team work) and you have something usefull in return (the WP).

Couldn’t disagree more.

Sorry, but I would rather have my server work together and win the match up. I couldn’t care less about any given WP from week to week if we were losing g every week.

Catalin.5341:

I only play GW2 for the WvW game mode and from time to time I have a look on the WvW forums. Now, with the new expansion it looks like everyone on this forum only brings in complains, either accompanied by suggestions or not.

So I wondered to the other sections of the forum and guess what.
In the PvP section everyone is complaining about class balance like DH being overpowered etc.
In the PVE section everyone is complaining about hard to kill mobs in the new maps, how stuff is very hard to grind, etc.

So don’t think for a second that people only complain about WvW, they complain about everything. So saying that WvW is dead because there are a lot of complains here, on the same note you could say that sPvP and PVE is dead too.

IMO, most people only ever come to the official forums to complain. Even at complaining, they offer no real solution other than a return to “normal.” Whatever that is. What Anet needs right now are constructive feedbacks, and I don’t see enough of it.

Wryscher.1432:

Jayne.9251:

Wryscher.1432:

Most the towers are to small for this. You fight with siege, which os sort of like fighting but not. Mostly you fight with line of sight not other people. Then one side breaks in and you have a short fight over the tower, both sides move on.

Which could explain why the new towers on the new map are so big.

It could be. Of course there is never anyone in them to fight, so i cant tell.

Once work eases up, I shall be there. You can come fight me!

coglin.1867:

Sich.7103:

Zanther Deathbringer.4762:

GROMIT.7829:

As for defending why should we defend, no time, energy or gold went into upgrading anything so no one cares if it flips, especially at night coz come morning everything on everyborder is T3 again with zero input.

Score maybe? You know, those numbers that tell you who win?

PPT is not all…. You earn nothing if you win the MU… Your server don’t earn nothing if you win the MU… But building and defending a keep with WP is more interesting because you have to make something (starting upgrade, protecting doly, team work) and you have something usefull in return (the WP).

Couldn’t disagree more.

Sorry, but I would rather have my server work together and win the match up. I couldn’t care less about any given WP from week to week if we were losing g every week.

i use to agree with you. But then one day i noticed something. And it has held fairly true through many of the servers i have been on. What i do in North American Primetime usually has next to no bearing on the outcome of the match. The servers usually seem to decide who wins in the time after i go to bed and before i get home from work.

So I Am like the guy who gets put in the game when the star needs a break. Anything I can so is swell. And the longer I can not screw it up, the longer the star can rest. Ihave to be there because the team needs a certain number of people on the field to not forfeit.

So I figured if it doesnt really matter so much stop sweating the small stuff. Stab people have fun. The elves that make the shoes when i go to sleep can worry about the score.

Complaining about complaining is awsome. GJ OP

sephiroth.4217:

Complaining about complaining is awsome. GJ OP

You’re complaining about the complaining about the complaining!

Gasp.

Catalin.5341:

So saying that WvW is dead because there are a lot of complains here, on the same note you could say that sPvP and PVE is dead too.

No one’s saying WvW is dead because there are a lot of complaints. People are saying it’s dead because… it’s dead. Check out WvW right now, particularly the BLs and you’ll see.