Guild Wars 2

I wonder if the new calculation considers the movement of population to different servers. Like, does it immediately remove a “WvW” player from a server’s total and add it to another server’s total when that player transfers? Or is it painfully slow to adjust to population movements like Glicko is?

Chaba.5410:

I wonder if the new calculation considers the movement of population to different servers. Like, does it immediately remove a “WvW” player from a server’s total and add it to another server’s total when that player transfers? Or is it painfully slow to adjust to population movements like Glicko is?

I do not know but would like to know as well.

I think it is the slow option unfortunately and I wish it would not be entirely. They should have 2 of them, 1 moving average based on like 2-3 weeks, the 2nd longterm, then adjust the total per average of the 2.

It makes sense that it calculates a week’s performance and then decides a median.

It also makes sense that it appears to happen on a Tuesday (when patch day is).

However, unless it includes EoTM, I have to wonder if there are other factors at play, since most of SFR sat out this week and they’re still full while FSP went Very High.

I suspect they’re not being too forthcoming on this info, since GW2 players tend to game any system they can …

Jayne.9251:

most of SFR sat out this week and they’re still full while FSP went Very High.

Yea, I’m not talking about players that sit out. The “time artifact” smoothing they supposedly do accounts for those kinds of players because they are still on the server and have the potential to play WvW on that server. It prevents servers from gaming the system with blackouts.

I’m talking about active players that transfer servers. There is absolutely no potential in those cases.

Chaba is asking because several guilds left fa/YB/SOS for t3 and it hasn’t changed the status of any of the 3 servers. The question is valid – players that transfer versus don’t play should immediately alter the calculation of the population…..

Then maybe EoTM is factored into WvW population. Is yours played a ton?

it is reasonable to conclude the population limits are much lower than what is the current number of active players. Therefore 1 or even 100 players leaving does not open an equal number of spots.

Ah that’s true too. The dev when he posted said several servers were above the “full” status by quite a bit — so any departures would just bring it to the top, not overflowing. Hadn’t considered that.

Jayne.9251:

Ah that’s true too. The dev when he posted said several servers were above the “full” status by quite a bit — so any departures would just bring it to the top, not overflowing. Hadn’t considered that.

Yep, which is fine. I think we all knew for a really long time that some servers are super-stacked and it will take a lot of players leaving those servers to become not-full again. At what point do those players leaving stop counting towards the server’s population? Immediately or smoothed out as a “time artifact”?

Because, let’s be honest here, it should be an immediate thing since a player that transferred is in no way a potential participant in their old server’s WvW population.

I had an additional thought on the subject, what if…

total number of active wvw players, divided by 24 (or 27 for eu) is the population full number.

maybe +100 or w/e but if anet is striving for equality how else would you go about it? then again maybe they just picked a number and done.

but if we follow out this theory of equal players on all servers those marked as full have a long way to go.

you might argue that “my server” doesnt feel full or how can you say we’re full when theres no ques? its not based on an arbitrary number and the cap might rise for every server if there were more players over all. or maybe once the medium pop servers get more active players the cap rises for all.

its also very hard for us players to account for wvw players who dont contribute, dont get in ts and are essentially invisible but easily tracked by anet’s system. those players who stand around on the walls doing nothing when the keep is being attacked and just log out when the gate is at 5%. those players are pushing up your population but your realm still does terrible and so feels like youre underpopulated.

I liked this game mode better when Anet ignores it and doesn’t touch it at all

Chaba.5410:

Jayne.9251:

Ah that’s true too. The dev when he posted said several servers were above the “full” status by quite a bit — so any departures would just bring it to the top, not overflowing. Hadn’t considered that.

Yep, which is fine. I think we all knew for a really long time that some servers are super-stacked and it will take a lot of players leaving those servers to become not-full again. At what point do those players leaving stop counting towards the server’s population? Immediately or smoothed out as a “time artifact”?

Because, let’s be honest here, it should be an immediate thing since a player that transferred is in no way a potential participant in their old server’s WvW population.

I would agree about transfers immediately being taken off the rolls so to speak. For some reason I have an idea that it recalculates monthly, but that’s just a gut feeling. Of course it’s possible, maybe even likely, that even losing all the GvG guilds from T2 didn’t move FA let alone YB off of full.

Synosius.9876:

its also very hard for us players to account for wvw players who dont contribute, dont get in ts and are essentially invisible but easily tracked by anet’s system.

It is very easy for us players to account for known players that transferred to another server.

Kaiser.9873:

Of course it’s possible, maybe even likely, that even losing all the GvG guilds from T2 didn’t move FA let alone YB off of full.

FA has reportedly flashed to Very High briefly a few times this last week. That may give you some idea of how overstacked YB is (and by extension, NA T1).

Chaba.5410:

I wonder if the new calculation considers the movement of population to different servers. Like, does it immediately remove a “WvW” player from a server’s total and add it to another server’s total when that player transfers? Or is it painfully slow to adjust to population movements like Glicko is?

This sort of info is what we really should find out.

Its totally strange, i am on deso and we are so called full, while compared to us fsp and sfr have overall seen double our numbers. Unless we have tons of fake accounts playing every day by standing afk and reporting to their server, i doubt that we are actually full. Unless they also count EOTM wich is more pve then WvW.

I dont think they will ever show us the math behind it because its probably stupid simple or way, way too complicated to understand. Either way they dont want us to know that.

If they are really smart, they would also take into account average population in the tier a server is in so that they become more “empty” as they goes up against servers with higher populations. But I doubt it. Betting on stupid simple instead.

I think the biggest chance how they do this is, checking MU’s and if one is winning pure for profits out of nowhere making the second placed one or the first placed one not full, so that bandwagoners can join that server.
That will win tons of profit for Anet

Well just hit world selection to look. Every server was considered medium or higher. So This system obviously isn’t being truthful. My server devona’s rest is about 2 tiers below medium. We aren’t just low pop we are DEAD population.

Jayne.9251:

Then maybe EoTM is factored into WvW population. Is yours played a ton?

I may be wrong, but I believe a dev said that EOTM does not factor into the calculations as it’s not considered part of the actual WvW matchup (if you go into EOTM and look at your inventory, it shows karma instead of badges).

Aerial Melodies.4938:

Jayne.9251:

Then maybe EoTM is factored into WvW population. Is yours played a ton?

I may be wrong, but I believe a dev said that EOTM does not factor into the calculations as it’s not considered part of the actual WvW matchup (if you go into EOTM and look at your inventory, it shows karma instead of badges).

This was my understanding as well, but who knows….

Here’s Samuel Loretan’s post on the population calculations.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/wuv/World-Population-Changes-Are-Coming/page/4#post5324934

If I had to guess, they are looking at any number or combination of factors which may or may not include the following:
Number of players
Number of player hours
Hours in queue
Amount of Exp rewarded
Etc.

I would guess that they use a rolling average since Mr. Loretan said, “The goal is a better balance, but not a too sudden disruption either” and I imagine they would want to smooth out any momentary/temporary spikes.

I also think that it re-calculates on a weekly basis, since I have been checking it on a daily basis and only seeing server status changes once per week. Btw, here are my findings so far:

Week 1
Dzagonur Medium→High

Week 2
Piken Square Full→Very High
Dzagonur High→Medium

Week 3
Ehmry Bay High→Medium
Gates of Madness High→Medium
Gandara Full→Very High
Far Shiverpeaks Full→Very High
Jade Sea Full→Very High
Riverside Full→Very High
Augury Rock Very High→High
Dzagonur Medium→High

Just my guesses, ramblings and findings, make of it what you will!

It’s likely that they still count active accounts that used to WvW but don’t go there anymore for quite some time as WvW active to prevent server wide population manipulations and excessive variance.

If you actually transfer away it should cause the server to be empty quicker :p

Why would they tell you how it works? It’ll just let people game the system.

Nothing to wory about soon Tier 2 Yakbend server will get tired of pvdoor and gliko will go down and the other 2 servers will catch up. Unless they pvdoor hardcore for half a year they will never catch the tier 1.
If you went to yaks you got locked in pvdoor and trolled hard by arena net lol.

strange part is deso is not full, other servers in gold have way more active people daily. For us most of the people are really dedicated and thats it and after this week it seems that a lot less people will play on deso! if we are still full by next week, then this is really nonsence!

snarfrificus.4230:

strange part is deso is not full, other servers in gold have way more active people daily. For us most of the people are really dedicated and thats it and after this week it seems that a lot less people will play on deso! if we are still full by next week, then this is really nonsence!

Of course you are full, but we are medium. Look your score. Deso have said years that wvw is all about coverage so this week score clearly shows that deso and FSP are overstacked.

Chaba.5410:

Kaiser.9873:

Of course it’s possible, maybe even likely, that even losing all the GvG guilds from T2 didn’t move FA let alone YB off of full.

FA has reportedly flashed to Very High briefly a few times this last week. That may give you some idea of how overstacked YB is (and by extension, NA T1).

See, I didn’t think this was possible. I thought they said that it was more of a hard number rather than a floating number. Of course for all we know Anet is simply counting people that enter for any length of time as one tick for that day. So it’s possible that people that use WvW as a cheap way to LA, or as a way to access the bank/crafting stations are causing inflated averages.

Aerial Melodies.4938:

Jayne.9251:

Then maybe EoTM is factored into WvW population. Is yours played a ton?

I may be wrong, but I believe a dev said that EOTM does not factor into the calculations as it’s not considered part of the actual WvW matchup (if you go into EOTM and look at your inventory, it shows karma instead of badges).

They stated that EotM was NOT calculated into their formula as it was a different mode than true WvW.

Kaiser.9873:

Chaba.5410:

Kaiser.9873:

Of course it’s possible, maybe even likely, that even losing all the GvG guilds from T2 didn’t move FA let alone YB off of full.

FA has reportedly flashed to Very High briefly a few times this last week. That may give you some idea of how overstacked YB is (and by extension, NA T1).

See, I didn’t think this was possible. I thought they said that it was more of a hard number rather than a floating number. Of course for all we know Anet is simply counting people that enter for any length of time as one tick for that day. So it’s possible that people that use WvW as a cheap way to LA, or as a way to access the bank/crafting stations are causing inflated averages.

Well it is a rolling average as was pointed out so I don’t see why dynamic updates would not be possible.

I just dont see how any system could possibly calculate my server devonas rest or the only worse off server then us ET as medium pop. Seems to me they just dont want to actually let it say low pop next to a server.

They can’t use Low because that would mean free transfers. People on those lower pop servers have begged Arenanet to make any transfer there at LEAST cost a minimal amount of gems, so that moving doesn’t wind up in a mass bandwagon chaos.

stof.9341:

It’s likely that they still count active accounts that used to WvW but don’t go there anymore for quite some time as WvW active to prevent server wide population manipulations and excessive variance.

Yeah but for how long? Not that I expect them to answer that which would clearly let people game the system. How long is reasonable for not logging in to be counted against the cap? A month?

Kaiser.9873:

See, I didn’t think this was possible. I thought they said that it was more of a hard number rather than a floating number. Of course for all we know Anet is simply counting people that enter for any length of time as one tick for that day. So it’s possible that people that use WvW as a cheap way to LA, or as a way to access the bank/crafting stations are causing inflated averages.

They did say they were factoring activity into it so hopefully that means players just there for crafting won’t be counted. I still thnik the crafting should be moved completely out of WvW. Put it in The Heart of teh Mists.

Well my server has been high for the past 3 weeks yet outnumbered. I came here to say that didn’t make sense since we’ve been outnumbered by medium servers.. Now my server shows as medium as of today..

So looks like the status does change even though I came here to say it didn’t seem to be working as it should.

Will give it more time I guess.

It appears to be measured more than once a week at least.

FSP just went full again.

http://i.imgur.com/CHMjTy4.jpg

They were very high like a day ago.

Junkpile its really not true, sfr has by any means way more guys then fsp and deso, fsp also has way more then deso.
With our coverage we just had guys keeping themselves awake this week for 18 hours a day!
So you can blame it on the so called numbers, but at the same time having max 10 guys on at those times, cause they are what people call dedicating is something different than actually having uber blobs and being overstacked, like sfr always is.
But they got crushed this week, by their own ppt game and strategy and they blame our overstacking LOL!

I don’t know how they can accurately calculate population at different times of the day, rather than just players registered at any time of day the day, clearly FSP had players transferring out or something. Servers have coverage gaps, where there are less players that just leads to them being steamrolled in terms of PPT, maybe Anet will change things before HoT or after though, otherwise PPT is a poor Score Mechanic, that needs to change.

Outside of that if there’s no queues during prime time, that’s also an issue for other servers, because there’s less to fight.

snarfrificus.4230:

Junkpile its really not true, sfr has by any means way more guys then fsp and deso, fsp also has way more then deso.
With our coverage we just had guys keeping themselves awake this week for 18 hours a day!
So you can blame it on the so called numbers, but at the same time having max 10 guys on at those times, cause they are what people call dedicating is something different than actually having uber blobs and being overstacked, like sfr always is.
But they got crushed this week, by their own ppt game and strategy and they blame our overstacking LOL!

We can’t have more players. If we would have we would win because desolation mantra is that wvw is all about coverage.

Eredon Terrace….. Yeah boys we’re really medium status material aye’ with our party of 3 PLAYERS (most often for me, less, to the point where I am legit yolo solo by myself) in home BL trying to cap stuff back/be productive.

#ETmediumpopulationhype

Nah seriously most I’ve ever seen of us in one go was about ~10 in EBG. Oh boy. ANet please tend to these status titles and correct them.

morrolan.9608:

Yeah but for how long? Not that I expect them to answer that which would clearly let people game the system. How long is reasonable for not logging in to be counted against the cap? A month?

At least until HoT release? Cause we are bound to see all semi inactive WvW players return to try the new map at that point :p

Junkpile.7439:

snarfrificus.4230:

Junkpile its really not true, sfr has by any means way more guys then fsp and deso, fsp also has way more then deso.
With our coverage we just had guys keeping themselves awake this week for 18 hours a day!
So you can blame it on the so called numbers, but at the same time having max 10 guys on at those times, cause they are what people call dedicating is something different than actually having uber blobs and being overstacked, like sfr always is.
But they got crushed this week, by their own ppt game and strategy and they blame our overstacking LOL!

We can’t have more players. If we would have we would win because desolation mantra is that wvw is all about coverage.

If you guys ragequit and go to EOTM its not our fault lol, like this morning you guys have like 3 times our numbers running and we couldnt get higher then max 20 people.
Yes youg uys have more people, unless they are busy at eotm cause they keep wiping!

snarfrificus.4230:

Junkpile.7439:

snarfrificus.4230:

Junkpile its really not true, sfr has by any means way more guys then fsp and deso, fsp also has way more then deso.
With our coverage we just had guys keeping themselves awake this week for 18 hours a day!
So you can blame it on the so called numbers, but at the same time having max 10 guys on at those times, cause they are what people call dedicating is something different than actually having uber blobs and being overstacked, like sfr always is.
But they got crushed this week, by their own ppt game and strategy and they blame our overstacking LOL!

We can’t have more players. If we would have we would win because desolation mantra is that wvw is all about coverage.

If you guys ragequit and go to EOTM its not our fault lol, like this morning you guys have like 3 times our numbers running and we couldnt get higher then max 20 people.
Yes youg uys have more people, unless they are busy at eotm cause they keep wiping!

I don’t get what you trying to say. You have spammed 2 years that coverage is everything and now it suddenly isn’t.

Junkpile.7439:

snarfrificus.4230:

Junkpile.7439:

snarfrificus.4230:

Junkpile its really not true, sfr has by any means way more guys then fsp and deso, fsp also has way more then deso.
With our coverage we just had guys keeping themselves awake this week for 18 hours a day!
So you can blame it on the so called numbers, but at the same time having max 10 guys on at those times, cause they are what people call dedicating is something different than actually having uber blobs and being overstacked, like sfr always is.
But they got crushed this week, by their own ppt game and strategy and they blame our overstacking LOL!

We can’t have more players. If we would have we would win because desolation mantra is that wvw is all about coverage.

If you guys ragequit and go to EOTM its not our fault lol, like this morning you guys have like 3 times our numbers running and we couldnt get higher then max 20 people.
Yes youg uys have more people, unless they are busy at eotm cause they keep wiping!

I don’t get what you trying to say. You have spammed 2 years that coverage is everything and now it suddenly isn’t.

ever heared of having 2 groups of each 5 guys taking stuff? thats how we play if we have way to less numbers. So in a sense i dont get what you are saying, sfr is just blobbing up and when people are fighting they cap stuff. Coverage is everything in WvW, but with the amount of people sfr has they should be easily able to have an 24/7 non stop queued up blob on every map, but no they lost a couple of fights and they ragequit.

snarfrificus.4230:

Junkpile.7439:

snarfrificus.4230:

Junkpile.7439:

snarfrificus.4230:

Junkpile its really not true, sfr has by any means way more guys then fsp and deso, fsp also has way more then deso.
With our coverage we just had guys keeping themselves awake this week for 18 hours a day!
So you can blame it on the so called numbers, but at the same time having max 10 guys on at those times, cause they are what people call dedicating is something different than actually having uber blobs and being overstacked, like sfr always is.
But they got crushed this week, by their own ppt game and strategy and they blame our overstacking LOL!

We can’t have more players. If we would have we would win because desolation mantra is that wvw is all about coverage.

If you guys ragequit and go to EOTM its not our fault lol, like this morning you guys have like 3 times our numbers running and we couldnt get higher then max 20 people.
Yes youg uys have more people, unless they are busy at eotm cause they keep wiping!

I don’t get what you trying to say. You have spammed 2 years that coverage is everything and now it suddenly isn’t.

ever heared of having 2 groups of each 5 guys taking stuff? thats how we play if we have way to less numbers. So in a sense i dont get what you are saying, sfr is just blobbing up and when people are fighting they cap stuff. Coverage is everything in WvW, but with the amount of people sfr has they should be easily able to have an 24/7 non stop queued up blob on every map, but no they lost a couple of fights and they ragequit.

We often cap stuff with 3 man in EotM and bosses are much harder there. Why you need 5 man in normal wvw?

It will be slower than the Glicko rating by a bit, however, it does seem to be working. From what I have seen in NA over the past week now is that Fort Aspenwood is at about the WvW activity level that divides Very High and Full. That meens Yak’s Bend and greater are heavily over-stacked. We have also seen the threshold for Medium to High now that Dragonbrand changed to High and Ehmry Bay changed to Medium (which is interesing considering Ehmry Bay is doing pretty well since they have increased their rating over the past 3 weeks). It’s going to take a lot more time to adjust than a few weeks, so give it another 4 months to see the changes. However, HoT will throw that out of wack so it will be fun to see how all the data changes.

Ebay doesn’t have numbers against NSP or HoD. But we have plenty of vets stay w/ the server the longest. Many from inception.

SkyChef.5432:

Ebay doesn’t have numbers against NSP or HoD. But we have plenty of vets stay w/ the server the longest. Many from inception.

Yeah I know, I am just taking this from a ratings perspective. I thought it was interesting that Ehmry Bay went to Medium eventhough their rating has increased over the past 3 weeks. Might hint at some of the parameters that go into population calculation.

Michelangelo.1742:

…
Yeah I know, I am just taking this from a ratings perspective. I thought it was interesting that Ehmry Bay went to Medium eventhough their rating has increased over the past 3 weeks. Might hint at some of the parameters that go into population calculation.

My bad. AFAIK, there are certain parameters I can deduce that Anet has from normal WvW activities such as player queue per bl per period, the number of players of that home world, the rate of change of WvW queue and rate of change of home world population. That would give an average snapshot of that home world WvW population and after certain periods, the average will converge.
With that in mind, rating probably wouldn’t be a factor in calculation of population but rather results of combining of certain factors such as other servers refrained from ppt to keep the tier stable, quality of players etc. (I’m pretty sure NSP & HoD could blob the ppt hell out of us if they wanted to)
That’s just my speculation of their method to calculate the WvW population.

Junkpile.7439:

snarfrificus.4230:

Junkpile.7439:

snarfrificus.4230:

Junkpile.7439:

snarfrificus.4230:

Junkpile its really not true, sfr has by any means way more guys then fsp and deso, fsp also has way more then deso.
With our coverage we just had guys keeping themselves awake this week for 18 hours a day!
So you can blame it on the so called numbers, but at the same time having max 10 guys on at those times, cause they are what people call dedicating is something different than actually having uber blobs and being overstacked, like sfr always is.
But they got crushed this week, by their own ppt game and strategy and they blame our overstacking LOL!

We can’t have more players. If we would have we would win because desolation mantra is that wvw is all about coverage.

If you guys ragequit and go to EOTM its not our fault lol, like this morning you guys have like 3 times our numbers running and we couldnt get higher then max 20 people.
Yes youg uys have more people, unless they are busy at eotm cause they keep wiping!

I don’t get what you trying to say. You have spammed 2 years that coverage is everything and now it suddenly isn’t.

ever heared of having 2 groups of each 5 guys taking stuff? thats how we play if we have way to less numbers. So in a sense i dont get what you are saying, sfr is just blobbing up and when people are fighting they cap stuff. Coverage is everything in WvW, but with the amount of people sfr has they should be easily able to have an 24/7 non stop queued up blob on every map, but no they lost a couple of fights and they ragequit.

We often cap stuff with 3 man in EotM and bosses are much harder there. Why you need 5 man in normal wvw?

ofc not everybody has the 15 supply thing, that is the main reason why 5 are needed! the eotm standard farmers ofc have most of the time an way higher WvW level then those in normal WvW, due to pve farming.