Guild Wars 2

Gaab.4257:

Sorry but no. WvW is so much more and better than open world PvP.

So explain me why most of the servers except for the 3-4 top ones is so desolated if it’s that good?

Vieux P.1238:

Gaab.4257:

Sorry but no. WvW is so much more and better than open world PvP.

So explain me why most of the servers except for the 3-4 top ones is so desolated if it’s that good?

Rewards suck.

Game mode isn’t worth playing if you’re not in the top bracket.

Game mode isn’t worth playing if you dont care about the leaderboard.

Actually being at the top of the leaderboard doesn’t do anything.

Only people in the top brackets are willing to waste time and gold for a meaningless number on an obscure website.

It’s a very niche game mode for these reasons

Sorry no! I play all three aspcts of gw2 for good reason. When I want pvp I play pvp (lots of time in wvw still) Howerver, when I play pve I do not want to pvp or I would be doing that. I enjoy the fact of not having to look over my shoulder for both envirmental dangers as well as player danger in pve. If your ego can not be assuaged in one of the other foms of pvp in this game it makes me wonder why it seems to be such a huge drive for you to get it forced onto the pve players in open world play. I also believe there would be many trolls just out to harrass people. So as stated in the begining No!

It would require a complete reboot. I question whether you wouldvw have a decent conversion rate from the wvw playerbase. The PvE players would not be interested. I suppose you could get some sPvP players but the feasibility of the idea would be completed dependent on getting new players which is a high risk proposition for a game of this age.

Personally, I find open world PvP tedious. It lacks overall strategic importance in its gameplay and does not feature any higher level tactical and/or strategic coordination.

Ultimately, I find those games shallow.

Sungtaro.6493:

Personally, I find open world PvP tedious. It lacks overall strategic importance in its gameplay and does not feature any higher level tactical and/or strategic coordination.

Ultimately, I find those games shallow.

So, basically, just like WvW. Objectives that mean nothing, produce no rewards, and can not be held for any meaningful length of time.

WvW is just as shallow as any random open world gankfest. You’re just randomly ganking buildings. That’s the primary problem with WvW. Good siege implementations actually attach benefits to owning and holding territory for the players that hold them.

I can earn more gold losing wvw than winning wvw. Score is pointless and awards nothing of material value. Being attached to allies based on server selection in stead of by choice makes the teams meaningless.

RvR in general is an annoying concept, but its an absolutely stupid concept when it doesn’t even award your realm anything for winning

Ganking people in obsidian sanctum has deeper and more strategic gameplay than the rest of wvw combined. There’s an actual objective with an actual reward that you can actually deny your enemy from obtaining.

Vieux P.1238:

Junkpile.7439:

Would be hilarious use kill shot or arrow carts when people try to glide in verdant brink.

you can do that in WoW. Shoot em in mid air. it is pretty funny & cool. :P

My point is made and by the very person trying to promote this idea. He agree’s that it is cool and funny to shoot someone trying to pve. Seems rather childish and trollish at the same time seriously not looking for this in pve.

So far I’ve seen zero (0) people, except the OP, supporting the idea that the fix to WvW population imbalances is to remove WvW and throw everyone into Open-World PvP in the PvE zones.

Vieux, I know you love your idea, and you think that people agree with you, but it’s just not true. I’m not sure if English is your first language or not, but people aren’t saying what you think they say.

If you can find some direct quotes of people wanting to implement your idea (your whole idea, not just the notion that open PvP “could be fun”), go for it. Right now, at least to me, you keep saying you have the support of many while I see nothing at all.

PopeUrban.2578:

Sungtaro.6493:

Personally, I find open world PvP tedious. It lacks overall strategic importance in its gameplay and does not feature any higher level tactical and/or strategic coordination.

Ultimately, I find those games shallow.

So, basically, just like WvW. Objectives that mean nothing, produce no rewards, and can not be held for any meaningful length of time.

WvW is just as shallow as any random open world gankfest. You’re just randomly ganking buildings. That’s the primary problem with WvW. Good siege implementations actually attach benefits to owning and holding territory for the players that hold them.

I can earn more gold losing wvw than winning wvw. Score is pointless and awards nothing of material value. Being attached to allies based on server selection in stead of by choice makes the teams meaningless.

RvR in general is an annoying concept, but its an absolutely stupid concept when it doesn’t even award your realm anything for winning

Ganking people in obsidian sanctum has deeper and more strategic gameplay than the rest of wvw combined. There’s an actual objective with an actual reward that you can actually deny your enemy from obtaining.

Interesting. I always thought the strategic importance came from the gameplay itself.

If I play a game of chessmaster, does the strategic gameplay change whether I play for a prize or a match?

If you are arguing that people put their best foot forward when something is on the line, well, I agree and does improve the gameplay significantly.

WvW is a casual game. Those of us who do take it seriously either focus on the fractional aspect that potentially be competitive and ignore the rest or we knowingly lie to ourselves because we find some aspects fun.

I enjoyed the times attacking or defending at a T3 keep with at least twenty players at each side and seeing the back and forth flow of battle.

Being in the small man group and thinking of ways to affect these battles always interested me. Most of what we tried failed but the attempts were fun.

I am just not seeing it for open world pvp. Now, if there was or came along a game that blended the elements well for strategic and tactical fighting, I know I would change my mind.

But then I am mostly jaded about gank specialist crying when they get killed. It is just so tiresome.

PopeUrban.2578:

Sungtaro.6493:

Personally, I find open world PvP tedious. It lacks overall strategic importance in its gameplay and does not feature any higher level tactical and/or strategic coordination.

Ultimately, I find those games shallow.

So, basically, just like WvW. Objectives that mean nothing, produce no rewards, and can not be held for any meaningful length of time.

WvW is just as shallow as any random open world gankfest. You’re just randomly ganking buildings. That’s the primary problem with WvW. Good siege implementations actually attach benefits to owning and holding territory for the players that hold them.

I can earn more gold losing wvw than winning wvw. Score is pointless and awards nothing of material value. Being attached to allies based on server selection in stead of by choice makes the teams meaningless.

RvR in general is an annoying concept, but its an absolutely stupid concept when it doesn’t even award your realm anything for winning

Ganking people in obsidian sanctum has deeper and more strategic gameplay than the rest of wvw combined. There’s an actual objective with an actual reward that you can actually deny your enemy from obtaining.

Seems we are both playing a different MMO. The MMO I am playing (GW2 and Hot) a reward means to be given something of value or one of the currencies designed by GW2 to be used in game to acquire game items. When I take a camp, tower keep or Stonemist castle with those I run with I am rewarded with several currencies’ within the game. If I hit any of the vet’s or champs I get bags if I kill any player or assist in killing any player I am rewarded with bags. I believe that constitutes a reward by this MMO’s standards. I also acquire wxp and experience.
Their are rewards to your world just very few pay any attention. If you have no idea what I am talking about it seems you don’t play much Wvw (hint even the pve players on your world benefits from how well your server plays without stepping one foot into Wvw so yes there is a server benefit.)
Please by all means losing to gain more gold is new to me please explain that statement in greater detail. I would really like to know how this is accomplished.
Wvw might be an annoying concept to you but to those that Wvw all the time it is not so that is pure opinion.
Please explain in enough detail for me to understand how ganking players in obsidian sanctum has deeper meaning and more strategic game play then the rest of Wvw combined. Sounds again like more of an opinion (which you are entitled to) than an actual fact.

KKaelyn.5904:

Vieux P.1238:

Junkpile.7439:

Would be hilarious use kill shot or arrow carts when people try to glide in verdant brink.

you can do that in WoW. Shoot em in mid air. it is pretty funny & cool. :P

My point is made and by the very person trying to promote this idea. He agree’s that it is cool and funny to shoot someone trying to pve. Seems rather childish and trollish at the same time seriously not looking for this in pve.

Absolutely. with the option to turn off open world pvp for your character so you dont have to be trolled while you pve. Problem solved!

Vieux P.1238:

KKaelyn.5904:

Vieux P.1238:

Junkpile.7439:

Would be hilarious use kill shot or arrow carts when people try to glide in verdant brink.

you can do that in WoW. Shoot em in mid air. it is pretty funny & cool. :P

My point is made and by the very person trying to promote this idea. He agree’s that it is cool and funny to shoot someone trying to pve. Seems rather childish and trollish at the same time seriously not looking for this in pve.

Absolutely. with the option to turn off open world pvp for your character so you dont need to be trolled while you pve. Problem solved!

then you would be left with very few to pvp against.

Maybe.. but i’m sure i would find ppl to pvp against in the world

KKaelyn.5904:

PopeUrban.2578:

Sungtaro.6493:

Personally, I find open world PvP tedious. It lacks overall strategic importance in its gameplay and does not feature any higher level tactical and/or strategic coordination.

Ultimately, I find those games shallow.

So, basically, just like WvW. Objectives that mean nothing, produce no rewards, and can not be held for any meaningful length of time.

WvW is just as shallow as any random open world gankfest. You’re just randomly ganking buildings. That’s the primary problem with WvW. Good siege implementations actually attach benefits to owning and holding territory for the players that hold them.

I can earn more gold losing wvw than winning wvw. Score is pointless and awards nothing of material value. Being attached to allies based on server selection in stead of by choice makes the teams meaningless.

RvR in general is an annoying concept, but its an absolutely stupid concept when it doesn’t even award your realm anything for winning

Ganking people in obsidian sanctum has deeper and more strategic gameplay than the rest of wvw combined. There’s an actual objective with an actual reward that you can actually deny your enemy from obtaining.

Seems we are both playing a different MMO. The MMO I am playing (GW2 and Hot) a reward means to be given something of value or one of the currencies designed by GW2 to be used in game to acquire game items. When I take a camp, tower keep or Stonemist castle with those I run with I am rewarded with several currencies’ within the game. If I hit any of the vet’s or champs I get bags if I kill any player or assist in killing any player I am rewarded with bags. I believe that constitutes a reward by this MMO’s standards. I also acquire wxp and experience.
Their are rewards to your world just very few pay any attention. If you have no idea what I am talking about it seems you don’t play much Wvw (hint even the pve players on your world benefits from how well your server plays without stepping one foot into Wvw so yes there is a server benefit.)
Please by all means losing to gain more gold is new to me please explain that statement in greater detail. I would really like to know how this is accomplished.
Wvw might be an annoying concept to you but to those that Wvw all the time it is not so that is pure opinion.
Please explain in enough detail for me to understand how ganking players in obsidian sanctum has deeper meaning and more strategic game play then the rest of Wvw combined. Sounds again like more of an opinion (which you are entitled to) than an actual fact.

Fact:

Pve Players on your world derive no benefit from WvW. This was how it worked at release, and anet removed this feature shortly after launch because PvE players complained it was unfair. pvE players aren’t even separated by server any more. Megaserver simply dumps everyone in to fresh maps and allows them to taxi around. The only place where server selection matters any more is determining which wvw team you’re on. I’m guessing you haven’t been keeping up.

Fact:

I can get more wxp and loot from murdering people in a field than taking an objective. I can get more wxp and loot from failing to defend a keep than I can get from taking down a keep. The majority of material rewards in WvW are a result of player kills or flipping. The objectives themselves confer zero benefit. In fact, losing a lot of keeps in rapid succession has been the most money I’ve made off of wvw. Just get an arrow cart, aim it at a superior force, and collect bags until they breach the wall, then move to the next one. You’ll make far more money and wxp than the guys that just took over your keeps.

Fact:

You gain score for owning objectives. You do not gain loot for owning objectives. You gain loot for flipping objectives and killing people. You will come out richer from wvw if you do exactly what people do in EOTM. Run around in circles and flip stuff. There is no strategic depth that corresponds with earning potential. There is no incentive to defend objectives. The only incentives that exist are to remain on the offensive perpetually. The only people playing the game as designed are doing so by choosing to play less efficiently in terms of personal reward so that they can maintain PPT

Playing the game as intended, attempting to win the matchup, does not pay as well as attacking undefended objectives or simply killing people regardless of where they are. in any siege game with depth and purpose, material reward is gained from controlling territory, which creates meaningful fights. WvW’s objectives are meaningless from a reward standpoint, and serve only to tick points on a scoreboard that does nothing to award players for their efforts aside from rank up on a leaderboard. This is in stark contrast to a well designed siege game in which the primary motivator for warfare is personal gain which works with rather than against the primary goal structure of the game.

WvW is a system of all gain, and zero loss. It is a shallow system with meaningless objectives that only serve a niche community that cares about scoreboards more than income. It is hampered by weak objectives that are unsatisfying to own, and only marginally satisfying to take over. It is a rapid fire misinterpretation of siege game play designed to creat ’action packed" game play, and does at at the detriment of strategic depth or meaning that makes siege systems compelling to play. It is devoid of any sense of ownership, player agency, or adequate reward.

Until this is fixed it’s going to have population problems. You don’t have to take my work on it. You only need to step in to WvW on any server and see for yourself. Even at T1 per-realm population is hilariously low, often not even approaching the cap for most maps any night after reset. And these are the servers that are “serious” about WvW. I recently moved to gate of madness, down several tiers, from tarnished coast specifically because I no longer give a crap about wvw and can just kick out my wvw guild missions easily on unpopulated maps and move on with my day. That’s how badly wvw rewards “proper” play. So badly I actually left a populated server with competitive rankings because I realized that those competitive rankings did nothing but cost more than they paid out in siege. At least now I can make a few gold a week pvdooring guild missions and don’t feel like I’m wasting my time.

If you want people to care about WvW, and you want people to play WvW in stead of keep flipping and ktraining, you have to make the rewards reflect the intent of play. Currently the rewards are horrible, they reward the wrong things, and there is more incentive to let someone else take ownership of an objective than to claim it for your own guild, as it costs you more to to slot tactics, and pays out nothing for doing so.

I want it to work, but the current reward system isn’t going to cut it. Until the primary method of earning wxp and loot mirrors the primary method of winning matches, nobody is going to care.

Vieux P.1238:

Gaab.4257:

Sorry but no. WvW is so much more and better than open world PvP.

So explain me why most of the servers except for the 3-4 top ones is so desolated if it’s that good?

Because people like to stack on the top servers for various reasons; and many people just stopped playing WvW due to Anet’s changes over the time.

BTW what you’re saying is not true, I’ m not on “one of the 3-4 top ones” and WvW is not desolate.

PopeUrban.2578:

KKaelyn.5904:

PopeUrban.2578:

Sungtaro.6493:

Personally, I find open world PvP tedious. It lacks overall strategic importance in its gameplay and does not feature any higher level tactical and/or strategic coordination.

Ultimately, I find those games shallow.

So, basically, just like WvW. Objectives that mean nothing, produce no rewards, and can not be held for any meaningful length of time.

WvW is just as shallow as any random open world gankfest. You’re just randomly ganking buildings. That’s the primary problem with WvW. Good siege implementations actually attach benefits to owning and holding territory for the players that hold them.

I can earn more gold losing wvw than winning wvw. Score is pointless and awards nothing of material value. Being attached to allies based on server selection in stead of by choice makes the teams meaningless.

RvR in general is an annoying concept, but its an absolutely stupid concept when it doesn’t even award your realm anything for winning

Ganking people in obsidian sanctum has deeper and more strategic gameplay than the rest of wvw combined. There’s an actual objective with an actual reward that you can actually deny your enemy from obtaining.

Seems we are both playing a different MMO. The MMO I am playing (GW2 and Hot) a reward means to be given something of value or one of the currencies designed by GW2 to be used in game to acquire game items. When I take a camp, tower keep or Stonemist castle with those I run with I am rewarded with several currencies’ within the game. If I hit any of the vet’s or champs I get bags if I kill any player or assist in killing any player I am rewarded with bags. I believe that constitutes a reward by this MMO’s standards. I also acquire wxp and experience.
Their are rewards to your world just very few pay any attention. If you have no idea what I am talking about it seems you don’t play much Wvw (hint even the pve players on your world benefits from how well your server plays without stepping one foot into Wvw so yes there is a server benefit.)
Please by all means losing to gain more gold is new to me please explain that statement in greater detail. I would really like to know how this is accomplished.
Wvw might be an annoying concept to you but to those that Wvw all the time it is not so that is pure opinion.
Please explain in enough detail for me to understand how ganking players in obsidian sanctum has deeper meaning and more strategic game play then the rest of Wvw combined. Sounds again like more of an opinion (which you are entitled to) than an actual fact.

Fact:

Pve Players on your world derive no benefit from WvW. This was how it worked at release, and anet removed this feature shortly after launch because PvE players complained it was unfair. pvE players aren’t even separated by server any more. Megaserver simply dumps everyone in to fresh maps and allows them to taxi around. The only place where server selection matters any more is determining which wvw team you’re on. I’m guessing you haven’t been keeping up.

Fact:

I can get more wxp and loot from murdering people in a field than taking an objective. I can get more wxp and loot from failing to defend a keep than I can get from taking down a keep. The majority of material rewards in WvW are a result of player kills or flipping. The objectives themselves confer zero benefit. In fact, losing a lot of keeps in rapid succession has been the most money I’ve made off of wvw. Just get an arrow cart, aim it at a superior force, and collect bags until they breach the wall, then move to the next one. You’ll make far more money and wxp than the guys that just took over your keeps.

Fact:

You gain score for owning objectives. You do not gain loot for owning objectives. You gain loot for flipping objectives and killing people. You will come out richer from wvw if you do exactly what people do in EOTM. Run around in circles and flip stuff. There is no strategic depth that corresponds with earning potential. There is no incentive to defend objectives. The only incentives that exist are to remain on the offensive perpetually. The only people playing the game as designed are doing so by choosing to play less efficiently in terms of personal reward so that they can maintain PPT

Playing the game as intended, attempting to win the matchup, does not pay as well as attacking undefended objectives or simply killing people regardless of where they are. in any siege game with depth and purpose, material reward is gained from controlling territory, which creates meaningful fights. WvW’s objectives are meaningless from a reward standpoint, and serve only to tick points on a scoreboard that does nothing to award players for their efforts aside from rank up on a leaderboard. This is in stark contrast to a well designed siege game in which the primary motivator for warfare is personal gain which works with rather than against the primary goal structure of the game.

WvW is a system of all gain, and zero loss. It is a shallow system with meaningless objectives that only serve a niche community that cares about scoreboards more than income. It is hampered by weak objectives that are unsatisfying to own, and only marginally satisfying to take over. It is a rapid fire misinterpretation of siege game play designed to creat ’action packed" game play, and does at at the detriment of strategic depth or meaning that makes siege systems compelling to play. It is devoid of any sense of ownership, player agency, or adequate reward.

Until this is fixed it’s going to have population problems. You don’t have to take my work on it. You only need to step in to WvW on any server and see for yourself. Even at T1 per-realm population is hilariously low, often not even approaching the cap for most maps any night after reset. And these are the servers that are “serious” about WvW. I recently moved to gate of madness, down several tiers, from tarnished coast specifically because I no longer give a crap about wvw and can just kick out my wvw guild missions easily on unpopulated maps and move on with my day. That’s how badly wvw rewards “proper” play. So badly I actually left a populated server with competitive rankings because I realized that those competitive rankings did nothing but cost more than they paid out in siege. At least now I can make a few gold a week pvdooring guild missions and don’t feel like I’m wasting my time.

If you want people to care about WvW, and you want people to play WvW in stead of keep flipping and ktraining, you have to make the rewards reflect the intent of play. Currently the rewards are horrible, they reward the wrong things, and there is more incentive to let someone else take ownership of an objective than to claim it for your own guild, as it costs you more to to slot tactics, and pays out nothing for doing so.

I want it to work, but the current reward system isn’t going to cut it. Until the primary method of earning wxp and loot mirrors the primary method of winning matches, nobody is going to care.

Power of the Mist is still a part of Wvw. And because you personally don’t feel rewarded enough for your efforts does not mean I feel the same way again not fact but opinon of which yours and mine differ. Also if you play only for personal reward and not for the server you are on at the moment that speaks plenty as to the other “facts” you believe.

KKaelyn.5904:

Power of the Mist is still a part of Wvw. And because you personally don’t feel rewarded enough for your efforts does not mean I feel the same way again not fact but opinon of which yours and mine differ. Also if you play only for personal reward and not for the server you are on at the moment that speaks plenty as to the other “facts” you believe.

What I’ve listed as facts are facts, not opinions. power of the mists doesn’t have any effect outside of WvW and hasn’t for a long time. Rewards, again, do not reinforce playing the game as designed. The whole thing is a broken mess made moreso by a poorly designed war room and poorly considered changes to yaks.

I understand that it is possible you haven’t actually played any other siege focused pvp games, but I assure you, what you have in WvW is about as watered down and pointless as it gets.

If they want to keep the casual siege game match format where everyone is a special snowflake and nobody loses, that’s awesome, it fits GW2. However, it needs to stop costing more money than it pays out to play effectively, and it needs to actually reward playing the game as intended.

Everyone plays games for personal reward. Siege play is not about team kittening spirit. It is war. It should be about taking over objectives because they are rewarding to take over not because they fill you with fuzzy good vibes

When was the last time you cared about losing a keep in WvW? Be honest. You didn’t. That keep doesn’t do anything for you. In fact you’re probably willfully avoided defending a keep because you didn’t want to slow down the people capturing it. You know, because you can just flip it again for a quick buck, or a quick score update even though you have no intent to hold it. That’s why when people’s maps get overrun they log out for the week and don’t come back until reset. There’s no point in holding on to just a few towers. They don’t do anything for you. There’s no reward in it. The only reward is in rapid offense, despite the scoring being built around total ownership.

Even then the scoring does nothing to reqard sustained ownership. Flipping something right before a score update pays out the same as owning it for two days. It’s dumb.

You may not want to hear this, but the people playing EOTM are playing the game the way it is actually designed and everyone in the top tier servers is deluding themselves, attempting to make it in to something it isn’t actually designed, at a core functional level, to do.

Yet those people hate EOTM. They rail against the dissolution of servers because you fear that your “communities” can’t stand against the nature of actual realm play driven by people who don’t share your delusions about WvW.

WvW at a basic mechanical level is fun. It is not, however, rewarding in any way, and never has been. It costs far more than it pays to play effectively, and since HoT this is more true than ever. It is a miracle the designers in charge of this mode haven’t been fired. The entire system displays an embarassing lack of understanding of player motivation, care for the desires of the WvW community, investment in the mode as an alternative to other siege warfare games for driving new sales, or even basic first entry level game design ability.

The entire system functions like a first draft of a game design that someone signed off on without actually thinking about why players would continue to play the mode.

There’s no loot. There’s no seasons. There’s literally no reward at all. There’s only an endless money-suck that requires you to leave the game mode just to earn enough gold to play the game mode properly. The too-small maps are filled with paper objectives that nobody holds for any length of time, and nobody cares about.

Arenanet has no idea how to build a siege game, and this is evident by the siege game they’ve built and actively made worse with every major update. In attempting to make it impossible to lose anything of value they missed the point of siege games. The ability to lose things that are valuable to players on a personal level is what drives them to keep logging in to crush their enemies and defend their stuff.

They should really stick to small arena based pvp games. Stronghold is an indication that they actually understand how to build those. It’s a well designed mode that rewards people effectively for playing it as intended.

They went and hired a whole new raid design team. How about hiring some people that actually know how to build siege games to redesign their siege game while they’re at it? It would work better than throwing darts at a whiteboard labeled “siege pvp” and implementing whatever stupid crap they hit.

Ok I get the point; you dislike the game. So why are you even here? And don’t even try to say at this point you like this game. I always wonder at those that rant and rave on and on about how bad this game is. My solution if I dislike something I have the chance to control by not doing it is to not do it. As you have pointed out so loudly to you everything is wrong in wvw and only your opinions matter so be it. However, I enjoy the game and play for my server, my guild and my friends. I have a great time and many laughs while earning enough. Sorry your experiance is not as pleasent.

KKaelyn.5904:

Ok I get the point; you dislike the game. So why are you even here? And don’t even try to say at this point you like this game. I always wonder at those that rant and rave on and on about how bad this game is. My solution if I dislike something I have the chance to control by not doing it is to not do it. As you have pointed out so loudly to you everything is wrong in wvw and only your opinions matter so be it. However, I enjoy the game and play for my server, my guild and my friends. I have a great time and many laughs while earning enough. Sorry your experiance is not as pleasent.

I’m still here because I still enjoy the other two game modes. I want to enjoy WvW. The core mechanics work. Siege engines are fun to use. Combat in general is fun. The claiming/reset/lootbags spawning from nowhere/rewards applied only for offense metagame makes it a shallow game with no strategic or political depth.

And that’s fine

But if they’re committed to the quick and dirty shallow siege game, they need to treat it as such. If it lacks intrinsic rewards like the satisfaction and benefit of actually being able to own and hold territory to ensure that the game is “all building fights all the time” then those building fights need to start paying out well enough that people aren’t forced to do other stuff just to fight the constant building fights without going broke.

I’m glad you’re able to enjoy it. Your opinion matters. However your opinion won’t fix the massive number of things that are wrong with WvW, and have contributed to the steady decline in its population and massive inability for most of the player base to actually play it against a competitive number of enemies

Lol I am a little to old to be highly impressed with flashy things. However fun and good times are priceless.

Vieux P.1238:

Gaab.4257:

Sorry but no. WvW is so much more and better than open world PvP.

So explain me why most of the servers except for the 3-4 top ones is so desolated if it’s that good?

Okays, I’ve been on T8 servers and on T2 servers, WvW even on T8 servers isn’t barren. I mean I still found players doing their server’s strong time doing zergs, and other times doing roaming with friends if not solo roaming. On a T7 server, I preferred only doing WvW solo most times and zerging only when the zerg needed help.

Now on T2 servers, you’d think servers up there have more interesting fights, right? blog v blog v smaller blog. Yawns… that’s about as fun as watching grass grow. Literally. Yet what is more fun about that is you will at least have some defenders helping to defend objectives. Smaller servers rarely defend objectives, instead flipping them back before the tick hits.

Now as to your post on Open World PvP… If you ask around to those in game that rarely if ever even read the forums and even to many that came to GW2 once F2P happened, you’ll find that the vast majority would not play GW2 if they were forced to PvP. GW2 would become another AION or Lineage II then cause many learned that AION back in 2009 was the hots… and then that it forced PvP, complained on forums and left the game to never return. Not saying I’m one of those, I just quit the game as it got old and old, over and over the same darn thing. But, if GW2 had open world PvE area PvP, good bye community … Only the diehards would remain.

WvW is nice and matches with the theme of the mists. Yes, if you want PvP, go to sPvP or to one of the arenas. However, WvW is meant to be more of RTS with MMO perspective, and it matches that. As a commander, I have to decide do I want to assault SMC or do I want to push one side or another or take the zerg to another BL. The grunts/followers, its rather simple, toss supply here, kill xyz guards, and stop players before fighting the lord. This gives you the fun of open world PvE with some open world PvP.

Now if you feeling adventurous which most aren’t on T2 servers, but many were on T6, T7 and T8 servers, challenge yourself by cutting the tail of a zerg, or solo capping a keep or tower by yourself or with a small group and fending off the enemies that come to stop you.

REWARDS…

If anything, the only thing I’d change about WvW, make the Borderland maps back to being friendly to everyone, not just small group of roamers. Beyond that, I would ask for better rewards from WvW, like maybe a badge that says you’re a WvW player like PvP players get in ranked divisions now… Bring back WvW tournaments too and provide incentives for top tier kitten servers to lose some players to lower tier servers so that lower tier servers can see what blog vs blog vs blog feels like.

TL;DR…

Basically, WvW is RTS combined with old war games… its fun and be it a T2 server or a T8 server, you can challenge yourself either in small groups or solo by cutting tails of zergs and capping things like Keeps and towers. Yes, even a small group can on a lower tier server cap SMC. Adding better rewards would get most to play it more, like rewards that impact the guild halls. The only reason most lower tier servers lost population of WvW is because of the guild halls requiring most of their components to come from pure PvE. I think this was the biggest mistake of all ANet did, but if they could be better rewards and things for guild halls coming from both PvE and WvW in equal number, then people would likely stop grinding DS, SW and other PvE places for mats, and even PvP for PvP potions, and would come back to grinding WvW on mass.

The only game mode that i would say has truely failed, and not just that but also acted detrimentally to the rest of GW2, is PvP.

The e-sport dream has dictated a lot of design descisions, and because pvp is so grossly removed from pve and wvw any balance changes made for pvp (which is most of them) constantly upsets pve and wvw. Two game modes who barely get any balance changes because it’s all about pvp for the developers.

What has all that love and attention gotten them? A game mode that has been in a coma for 3 years, briefly awoken with the seasons only to kitten itself, slip on the feces and knock itself out again.

WvW has always been more succesful than pvp despite its lack of attention, or incredibly poor descisions along the way where they go out of their way and do exactly what people dont want them to do.

WvW is salvageable, and at the very worst never a detriment to the rest of the game. Whereas pvp has always been a mess, and always messed with other game modes. If any mode should be clean cut from the game it’s pvp.