Guild Wars 2

Note: Everything here is from the standpoint of small fights, from solo roaming to 5-10 man.

Condi builds seem to be pretty common and I’m wondering if people are keeping up with condi clears(especially solo people). Torment and perplexity look to be in pretty heavy rotation. It seems to be pushing combat towards there just being a few (I’m tempted to say “couple”) of viable builds per class. I really hope that is not intentional as it really doesn’t seem healthy. At this point, condi is melting health bars fast enough to make the risky balance of power builds seem nonsensical. What do you think, have conditions gone overboard on the small man scene?

Condi meta needs to be pushed to the ridiculous max. The reason being is that when 3/4 posts on these forums are condi-QQ, then maybe anet will balance it a bit. As it stands right now, condis do not affect PVE, and since PVE balances WvW: no condi changes imminent.

They toned down power damage a bit with the Ferocity nerf/change, but even with big DPS builds you usually had to sacrifice some sustain. With condi bunker builds you can pretty much get all the condi/vit/tough you want and still do crazy dmg.

Burst power builds, the ones that were immediately putting the condi users on their toes, were one of the only things keeping Perplex and torment in check for so long to begin with.

Condi gear need to be good at something. Condi spec mainly work against low skilled players.

Junkpile.7439:

Condi gear need to be good at something. Condi spec mainly work against low skilled players.

I lol’d….

No. Anet hit the engineer class with nerf bats over and over again, killing the power crit dps builds ( cos apparently doing a 15k crit was too much for engineers while 27k+ crits for warriors was not enough lol) and also removing condi dmg from all turrets except one ( how dare that engineer counter that 10k hp glass canon build thiefs broken imba invis spam ). If they nerf condi builds even more then wtf do i play? Healing power lol?

NeverSmileWF.1684:

No. Anet hit the engineer class with nerf bats over and over again, killing the power crit dps builds ( cos apparently doing a 15k crit was too much for engineers while 27k+ crits for warriors was not enough lol) and also removing condi dmg from all turrets except one ( how dare that engineer counter that 10k hp glass canon build thiefs broken imba invis spam ). If they nerf condi builds even more then wtf do i play? Healing power lol?

Might want to google how Hundred Blades works.

Mjgander.1905:

NeverSmileWF.1684:

No. Anet hit the engineer class with nerf bats over and over again, killing the power crit dps builds ( cos apparently doing a 15k crit was too much for engineers while 27k+ crits for warriors was not enough lol) and also removing condi dmg from all turrets except one ( how dare that engineer counter that 10k hp glass canon build thiefs broken imba invis spam ). If they nerf condi builds even more then wtf do i play? Healing power lol?

Might want to google how Hundred Blades works.

Yeah and I have still seen some pretty nice crits on BoB lately too….

The condi meta (Which I rather call perplexity/torment meta) is likely to continue since it does not affect the “main” thing in WvW: The Zerg.

Since I don’t like it, I don’t play it. I have much more fun fighting in a build that actually require me to do somenthing other than spam 1 to victory… But ofc, I do have my perplexity condimancer to play when I’m upset with the kittenty roamers we see nowadays and their “carry-me-to-win” condi builds, so we can go out on same level.

Junkpile.7439:

Condi gear need to be good at something. Condi spec mainly work against low skilled players.

lolol. You don’t know much about the meta.

Junkpile.7439:

Condi gear need to be good at something. Condi spec mainly work against low skilled players.

If by low skilled players, you mean players who aren’t jumping on the condi meta, sure. So we can correct that to say, “Condi spec mainly work against non-condi players.” Problem much?

style.6173:

Junkpile.7439:

Condi gear need to be good at something. Condi spec mainly work against low skilled players.

lolol. You don’t know much about the meta.

What meta? Some very small minority doesn’t define meta. Power is meta and condition dmg need boost so it actually would be useful in real men fights.

condies might be a problem for some builds in 1v1s where stuff isn’t exactly balanced. it’s fine in any other situation. saying “I need a cleanse” on ts generally works when Im all out of cleanses and somehow thats a problem. you know, teamplay and kitten.

in any decently balanced 5 man group you’ll generally have 1 or 0 condition classes; any more than that and the number is always 0. I don’t think I’ve seen any good condi based 5 man team.

aoe boons, cc and access to stability providing stunbreaks + aoe condi removal is still what makes wvw all about warriors and guardians, at any scale other than 1v1.

The roaming builds are coming out of spvp, where condis are extremely effective even without +40% food.

Condi’s = the least skilled build to play with one of the highest rewards. When will people actually understand that? Seriously, I lol in the face of anyone who plays condis and actually think they are legit.

-% duration food/runes and you wont have many issues.
congratz you countered the "meta"

Condi is only relevant for small-scale.
If your group of 20+ players has issues with conditions, you have to stop and think about what you’re doing wrong…

Grok.6714:

Condi is only relevant for small-scale.
If your group of 20+ players has issues with conditions, you have to stop and think about what you’re doing wrong…

That’s why he said on his post that he is talking in a 1-10man perspective…

the reason why torment and confusion is prevalent is because most people are oblivious as to what happens if you just ignore them and carry on.

This means, you still move about, spamming 1 and ends up killing yourself.

Seems to me that some players want their shiny new ascended gear to be best in everything.

Warrior, cleansing ire, burst mastery, melandru runes, -40% duration food. Seems to be the answer to every problem. While condis are a problem for sure, you don’t even need a functioning brain for this since all your condi defense happens passively, unless you’re running berserker stance too on top of all that.

Brando.1374:

-% duration food/runes and you wont have many issues.
congratz you countered the “meta”

I’m aware of those and feeling the need to run those takes a bite out of build diversity, which is what I hinted at in the original post.

Grok.6714:

Condi is only relevant for small-scale.
If your group of 20+ players has issues with conditions, you have to stop and think about what you’re doing wrong…

If the title you clicked on didn’t give it away, I specified again prior to the body of the original message that I was not talking about 20+ groups sir/madam.

Prysin.8542:

the reason why torment and confusion is prevalent is because most people are oblivious as to what happens if you just ignore them and carry on.

This means, you still move about, spamming 1 and ends up killing yourself.

There are a few inherent problems with that. I’m all for well reasoned moves but condis can be applied constantly and with impunity, so instead of making opponent(s) A aware of and rethink their actions, it just takes them out of the fight. Essentially, opponent A can’t(or shouldn’t) “spam”, because opponent B is given a free pass to spam. On a side note, I don’t think confusion is a bad thing, it helps tone down the button mashing, torment on the other hand was a bad idea with GW2’s combat being as fluid and movement oriented as it is but that’s another story.

gennyt.3428:

Brando.1374:

-% duration food/runes and you wont have many issues.
congratz you countered the “meta”

I’m aware of those and feeling the need to run those takes a bite out of build diversity, which is what I hinted at in the original post.

so you want to nerf condition builds to further narrow down the total available builds each class can run?

It’s barely diverse now when pretty much every roamer is a condition bunker. Nerfing condi builds would actually make other builds viable. You pretty much have to run melandru and condi reduction food and be built for maximum condition cleansing that your class has available, and it’s still not enough to keep up with the constant reapplication of mindless condition spam. Before they nerfed crit, atleast power builds could burst them down before they could 1 button spam you to death and stick 8 conditions on you with auto attacks and reapply them the second you cleanse them. You have to build even glassier now to burst down condition builds who can have maximum tankiness and still deal maximum damage. it’s not balanced at all. There’s risk to playing power builds, theres no risk to playing a condi bunker. EZ mode builds that require so little skill to use shouldn’t be so powerful.

And quite frankly, i’m bored of having to play a condi bunker my self to keep up with the current meta. its a very boring, mindless, thing to play. I’d like to try other builds, but condi bunker is just the most effective thing to play on any class now. Maximum payoff for minimum risk. So why wouldn’t you play condi bunker? They do need to be nerfed big time, the current state of conditions is very unhealthy for the game. Combat is becoming dull and stale because of it.

Bring clears, eat lemongrass.

Most conditionbuilds have burst-like skills too. Cleanse after they used them and you should be fine.

Ow look its this purposely misinformative dogma again.

There is no condition meta. PvE is power, WvW zergs is power, WvW roaming is also dominated by power, sPvP is dominated by power.
These posts pop up a lot, and you know what else they have in common? A complete lack of any evidence to support the wild claims that are made in them by the Condition-haters.

Every one of these threads always end up dying when the condition-haters get logic’d out of the thread, but then they just go around and make the exact same thread again. Which will then also get logic’d and dies.
And the cycle just repeats itself over and over.

Let me put this list here again in one of these threads.

Popular WvW Roaming setups

Warrior:
Sw/Sh+GS = Power because lol GS in a condi build
S/S+LB = Condi
Mace/Sh+GS Power
Hammer + GS = Power
Axe/Mace+GS= Power

Thief:
P/D = Condi
P/D = Power
D/P= Power
S/D = Power
S/P = Power
You have a bow your probably = Power

Mesmer:
PU hybrid = Power/Condi
PU condi = Condi
PU hybrid = Power
Shatter = Power
Phantasm = Power
Phantasm = Condi

Guardian:
Some new niche condi/hybrid = only seen 1 or 2 guards running this
Meditation= Power
Shouts = Power

Engineer:
Nades = Condi
Nades = Power
Bombs = Condi
Rifle = Power

Necromancer:
Lifeblast build = power
Terrormancer = condi
MM = is this sPvP?

Elementalist:
D/D standard = Power
S/D Fresh air = Power
Diamond skin = power
Diamond skin = condi
Diamond skin = hybrid
Staff = Who roams on staff?

I don’t know much about rangers

LB = Glass
Traps = Condi

Don’t know the other ranger setups

There are far more power/direct damage builds running around then condi builds since each class only has 1-2 condition builds because they are limited to only a few weapons in most cases. It is impossible for there to be more condition builds then direct damage builds unless your class has more condi focus weapons then direct damage weapons which isn’t the case for even Necromancers.

As far as what you actually see roaming. What is usually needed to have a successful roaming build?

Mobility/escapability and adaptability for more then 1 enemy or in other words the ability to possibly 1vX.

What classes have builds that CAN meet the above criteria? Warriors, Mesmers, Engineers and Thief, Elementalist. So that means many warriors, mesmers, engineers, thieves, and elementalist.

So it’s condi meta because those are the best classes to roam on? Engi is probably the most consistent condi build you will come across of those classes.

If you come across 10 thieves and 15 mesmers in 1 night of roaming and they happen to be all conditions that doesn’t mean it is a condi meta lol. Even in the player created game of “roaming” then it means it is a thief and mesmer meta.

I would need some video unedited roaming for somone to convince me that the majority of Warriors are running condi, same for Guardians, and Elementalist.

Thieves and Mesmers dominate roaming they set this “meta”. Instead of pointing the finger at what type of damage they are running count how many professions types you come across. *

I watched a single Burn condition applied by an Engineer via auto-attack deal 7000 damage to me, without +40% condition duration.

This is a condition applied by a fekkin auto-attack and has practically no animation or telegraph.

I mean wtf? Add other conditions on top of that and you can easily melt to half a dozen conditions in 8 seconds while the condi-spam builds run nice bunker-builds on top of that.

And to top it off, most of these conditions are AoE as well meaning you’re constantly being harassed by them in an unavoidable fashion.

After downed-state this low-risk/high-reward condi-spam game-play is the second most kittened thing about this game’s balance.

Ade active combat. It was fun while it lasted.

oZii.2864:

Elementalist:
Staff = Who roams on staff?

I do. OP as kitten

Dee Jay.2460:

I watched a single Burn condition applied by an Engineer via auto-attack deal 7000 damage to me, without +40% condition duration.

I’m pretty sure that to get that sort of burn duration and damage without any might stacking or condition duration food you’d need to have a 6/6/0/0/0 build (6 in explosions for 30% duration, 6 in firearms for napalm specialist) which is as glassy as it can be on an engie, not a bunker at all, not a single defensive trait.

suddenly a guardian shows up and pops his virtue of justice and the poor engie can’t even see his own burns tick.

Maskaganda.2043:

Dee Jay.2460:

I watched a single Burn condition applied by an Engineer via auto-attack deal 7000 damage to me, without +40% condition duration.

I’m pretty sure that to get that sort of burn duration and damage without any might stacking or condition duration food you’d need to have a 6/6/0/0/0 build (6 in explosions for 30% duration, 6 in firearms for napalm specialist) which is as glassy as it can be on an engie, not a bunker at all, not a single defensive trait.

suddenly a guardian shows up and pops his virtue of justice and the poor engie can’t even see his own burns tick.

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fdAQJAqelUUpkr9dxPLseNCbBESAN5PKA-T1hAwAXUCGU9nZ6B+u/AgHAwDzfQV+RKgHlGB-w

Rocket kick alone is 11.25sec burn worth 7359 dmg. With Givers weaps, instead of condi dura food. 2700ish armor.

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fdAQJAqelUUpkr9dxPLseNCbBESAN5PKA-T1hAwAy0DcRJYQ1f+u/AgHAwDzfQV+RKgHlGB-w

Rocket kick 10.25sec burn worth 7148 dmg. With rabid weapons, picking up some toughness now coming in at 2849 armor. (IE: plenty tanky enough)

He was probably only mistaken about the “auto attack” comment (also possible the burn was stacked/stacking), the duration’s are easily achieved.

bob.8632:

He was probably only mistaken about the “auto attack” comment (also possible the burn was stacked/stacking), the duration’s are easily achieved.

I don’t know but i heard that some engineers are running Runes of Balthazar for some crazy burn… I’m no expert tho.

Jeknar.6184:

bob.8632:

He was probably only mistaken about the “auto attack” comment (also possible the burn was stacked/stacking), the duration’s are easily achieved.

I don’t know but i heard that some engineers are running Runes of Balthazar for some crazy burn… I’m no expert tho.

He said no duration investment we don’t know what his “test” was so hard to say.

Balthazar is over investment in WvW with 30 explosives and food you can hit 125% burn duration which is only useful against melandru and lemongrass warriors and wasted on eveyone else.

bob.8632:

He was probably only mistaken about the “auto attack” comment (also possible the burn was stacked/stacking), the duration’s are easily achieved.

probably only mistaken about the most important part of his statement then :p

oZii.2864:

Jeknar.6184:

bob.8632:

He was probably only mistaken about the “auto attack” comment (also possible the burn was stacked/stacking), the duration’s are easily achieved.

I don’t know but i heard that some engineers are running Runes of Balthazar for some crazy burn… I’m no expert tho.

He said no duration investment we don’t know what his “test” was so hard to say.

Balthazar is over investment in WvW with 30 explosives and food you can hit 125% burn duration which is only useful against melandru and lemongrass warriors and wasted on eveyone else.

He said no condi duration food, obviously he had to have some duration boost elsewhere (runes/traits/sigils/etc).

Condi removal in small scale fights is quickly saturated by the ability of many builds to apply conditions. The “just use cleanses” argument simply doesn’t work in small scale fights. I run a strong condi removal/reduction warrior and some condi bunker builds light me up with no chance of keeping them clear. Two decently played condi-bunkers are virtually impossible to tank.

Food also doesn’t work as a solution since at best it offsets their food. Even though it is only an offset it is still nearly a required food since it can run off the short lived condis opening up stack removal skills to cleanse the big damagers.

@ oZii

Tossing up a listing weapon of combinations isn’t proof of what people are indeed running, you nor I have the numbers on that, and it’s still not the point. In my experience, condi can smother small fights on the cheap(risk/reward ratio), I think there is something wrong with that and that was my original point.

gennyt.3428:

@ oZii

Tossing up a listing weapon of combinations isn’t proof of what people are indeed running, you nor I have the numbers on that, and it’s still not the point. In my experience, condi can smother small fights on the cheap(risk/reward ratio), I think there is something wrong with that and that was my original point.

Those are the popular roaming builds/setups for all the classes I listed. I have 7 professions at 80 and I post on these forums alot and I’m in those profession forums all the time. There are probably people that have seen me in their class forums except rangers. I stay up to date on builds for all my classes. Sure there might be a special snowflake thief running S/P with perplexity in a condi build(lolwut). Still that isn’t common.

The question which I posed is what professions are you coming across? If you are running into all these conditions builds how many are thieves and mesmers and engi’s.

I am willing to bet money the majority of the professions you run across small scale that are conditions are mesmers, thieves, and engineers. If that is indeed the case why point the finger at conditions as the problem if you are coming across 5/10 thieves and 5/10 mesmers running conditions.

I am not even saying those professions are even a problem but I have been in tier 5 as low as tier 7 up to tier 1 and now tier 2 and mesmers and thieves are the most common roaming professions that will be running conditions solo/small scale. A lone necro all by himself isn’t unheard of but it isn’t by any stretch common like thieves and mesmers. Instead we make a thread about condi spam with out looking at the professions you see the most in small scale fights.

Organized guilds run guards and warriors, with power thieves and staff eles in 5-10 scale with maybe 1-2 necros.

Let’s be really honest here if we are truly singling out conditions then the classes running those have to be singled out also. Perhaps it might even be your class but solo to small scale is thief and mesmer heavy we can even throw engi in there. Calling conditions out of hand and not looking at the classes running them isn’t putting the picture in perspective. Anet will nerf the class before they nerf the main damage type. You have to ask yourself the honest question what are the majority of actual professions that are running these condi builds in solo/small scale.

Straegen.2938:

Condi removal in small scale fights is quickly saturated by the ability of many builds to apply conditions. The “just use cleanses” argument simply doesn’t work in small scale fights. I run a strong condi removal/reduction warrior and some condi bunker builds light me up with no chance of keeping them clear. Two decently played condi-bunkers are virtually impossible to tank.

how is that different from cc? if I’m fighting two decently played heavy cc classes I’ll quickly get chain stunned. my stunbreaks won’t save me forever. only 3 of my 8 classes/builds have decent stability on stunbreaks, I can’t ask anyone else to cast a stunbreak for me (afaik only guardian has a trait like that) like I would if I had conditions and needed a cleanse.
I can say the exact same thing about 2 decently played bursty classes.

this is a group game, it’s not balanced around 1v1s or 1vX. if you’re running any group bigger than 2 guys and you are being overwhelmed by conditions and no one in your group helps you cleanse or remove the condition spamers of your back, your group is badly balanced, not really that good and probably deserves to lose, especially if you are, as you say, playing a warrior with strong condi removal/reduction.

I was defeated by a condi build, please nerf conditions Anet! My tank build was unable to stop every type of build, please nerf stuff Anet. I was beaten by a player, please nerf PvP Anet.

Seriously, is this happening?

ofc is viable, the limit i consider for condi damage builds is 10vs10… for larger fights direct damage is simply the best choice, even in a 15vs15 ppl will just die beafore you are able to do any relevant damage at them, we may eventually discuss about the Necro Terror Build that can deal 1,2k damage/second.. but then you will rely only on a few skills/traits and with large cooldown…

@ oZii

If you’re asking if I’ve run into many condi Eles then that’s a no but I kinda feel like this is going in a circle. Saying you post a lot on the profession boards means just that, you post a lot on the boards, that’s it. There are many players who do not, so let’s not use this as yet another gauge. Small bands with condi Necros, Mesmers, Engineers and or Thieves tossed in aren’t uncommon in my experience. Now, if looking into how condition spam is leveraged in small fights means certain classes/runes/sigils/whatever come under scrutiny then so be it, I think we at least agree on that.

gennyt.3428:

@ oZii

If you’re asking if I’ve run into many condi Eles then that’s a no but I kinda feel like this is going in a circle. Saying you post a lot on the profession boards means just that, you post a lot on the boards, that’s it. There are many players who do not, so let’s not use this as yet another gauge. Small bands with condi Necros, Mesmers, Engineers and or Thieves tossed in aren’t uncommon in my experience. Now, if looking into how condition spam is leveraged in small fights means certain classes/runes/sigils/whatever come under scrutiny then so be it, I think we at least agree on that.

Then dismiss that part and let’s look at the classes. Small scale/solo and bring the classes under scrutiny. So instead of casting the wide net on “condi” what are the majority of the classes that you take issue with in how they use “condi spam”. A necro and thief do conditions totally differently as an example.

Maskaganda.2043:

Straegen.2938:

Condi removal in small scale fights is quickly saturated by the ability of many builds to apply conditions. The “just use cleanses” argument simply doesn’t work in small scale fights. I run a strong condi removal/reduction warrior and some condi bunker builds light me up with no chance of keeping them clear. Two decently played condi-bunkers are virtually impossible to tank.

how is that different from cc? if I’m fighting two decently played heavy cc classes I’ll quickly get chain stunned. my stunbreaks won’t save me forever. only 3 of my 8 classes/builds have decent stability on stunbreaks, I can’t ask anyone else to cast a stunbreak for me (afaik only guardian has a trait like that) like I would if I had conditions and needed a cleanse.
I can say the exact same thing about 2 decently played bursty classes.

this is a group game, it’s not balanced around 1v1s or 1vX. if you’re running any group bigger than 2 guys and you are being overwhelmed by conditions and no one in your group helps you cleanse or remove the condition spamers of your back, your group is badly balanced, not really that good and probably deserves to lose, especially if you are, as you say, playing a warrior with strong condi removal/reduction.

Totally agreeing with Straegen on this one. Condi clears and big burst condi clears are on a much longer cooldown than the condi applying builds that are currently part of the condi meta.

How is it different? Stability. Many classes can apply it to themselves and a few can provide it for others. Everybody is well aware of the exceptions, warriors have beserkers stance andeles diamond skin, but there is no “Condi Stance Stability” effect that allows all not to be conditioned the way stability works on CCs.

The most upsetting thing about the current condi meta is how it rewards the run in your own aoe circle while staying away from the opponent playstyle . Some of these classes (mesmer, engi) even attack while running away, something a pure melee can never do.

I agree. I should have as many if not more cleanses than a condition class can apply so they are not a threat. We should add more immunities to conditions. While we’re at it, lets add immunities to direct damage, too. Tons of them! Fair is fair.

Actually lets not let anyone take any damage, that would be the most fun. I don’t ever want to die or be challenged.

kRAVen.4195:

Maskaganda.2043:

Straegen.2938:

Condi removal in small scale fights is quickly saturated by the ability of many builds to apply conditions. The “just use cleanses” argument simply doesn’t work in small scale fights. I run a strong condi removal/reduction warrior and some condi bunker builds light me up with no chance of keeping them clear. Two decently played condi-bunkers are virtually impossible to tank.

how is that different from cc? if I’m fighting two decently played heavy cc classes I’ll quickly get chain stunned. my stunbreaks won’t save me forever. only 3 of my 8 classes/builds have decent stability on stunbreaks, I can’t ask anyone else to cast a stunbreak for me (afaik only guardian has a trait like that) like I would if I had conditions and needed a cleanse.
I can say the exact same thing about 2 decently played bursty classes.

this is a group game, it’s not balanced around 1v1s or 1vX. if you’re running any group bigger than 2 guys and you are being overwhelmed by conditions and no one in your group helps you cleanse or remove the condition spamers of your back, your group is badly balanced, not really that good and probably deserves to lose, especially if you are, as you say, playing a warrior with strong condi removal/reduction.

Totally agreeing with Straegen on this one. Condi clears and big burst condi clears are on a much longer cooldown than the condi applying builds that are currently part of the condi meta.

How is it different? Stability. Many classes can apply it to themselves and a few can provide it for others. Everybody is well aware of the exceptions, warriors have beserkers stance andeles diamond skin, but there is no “Condi Stance Stability” effect that allows all not to be conditioned the way stability works on CCs.

The most upsetting thing about the current condi meta is how it rewards the run in your own aoe circle while staying away from the opponent playstyle . Some of these classes (mesmer, engi) even attack while running away, something a pure melee can never do.

Maybe because Conditions arent CC’s?

Conditions is a form of damage, the lack of a boon to make someone immune to Conditions is the same as the lack of a boon that makes someone immune to direct-damage.

Same thing when talking about getting your removal overwhelmed. Condition removal isnt suppose to counter every condition. If it could what would even be the point in a condition build that cant actually deal damage?
You use your condition removal to deal with the worst bursts. And if you are fighting several conditions users at once, then dont look surprised when it gets overwhelmed.

Just like defense against direct-damage only goes so far, and can also get overwhelmed aswell. You apply it against the right abilities, at the right time.

Also, stop calling it a “Condition meta”. Power dominates this game, and it always has. PvE is full on power. WvW is mostly power, even in roaming. And yes, PvP, as the ToL showed us, is the playground for power builds above all.
Calling anything a condition meta is being dishonest.

Any decent group comp of 5++ in the same area should have enough cond clear to make cond damage laughable.

You can use your power food, and then pop out your -40% cond food at any point in time what so ever to help when you’re fighting conds.

kRAVen.4195:

Totally agreeing with Straegen on this one. Condi clears and big burst condi clears are on a much longer cooldown than the condi applying builds that are currently part of the condi meta.

How is it different? Stability. Many classes can apply it to themselves and a few can provide it for others. Everybody is well aware of the exceptions, warriors have beserkers stance andeles diamond skin, but there is no “Condi Stance Stability” effect that allows all not to be conditioned the way stability works on CCs.

The most upsetting thing about the current condi meta is how it rewards the run in your own aoe circle while staying away from the opponent playstyle . Some of these classes (mesmer, engi) even attack while running away, something a pure melee can never do.

The point that can’t be overlooked is that direct damage and condition damage have similarities and differences. They have some defenses against both damage types overlap and some don’t.

You can block, dodge, blind, etc… both but you can’t cleanse the direct damage. You can cleanse the and therefore prevent expected damage of the condition. You can heal back the direct damage but you can also heal back lost hp from condition damage. It isn’t cut and dry they both do damage but the differences need to be acknowledge also.

Direct damage is upfront condition damage is backloaded.

When you look at the tooltip for a eviscerate and it says 4,000 damage you know it is instant. The burn has to have time and isn’t guaranteed to maybe even do 20% of it’s listed tooltips damage.

When your running direct damage your trying to overload the other persons defenses/healing and sustain. Sometimes you an do this in less then 5 seconds if they are unsuspecting. When you run condition damage you are doing the same thing you are trying to overload those same defenses that work against direct damage and the condition specific defenses. Even if you catch someone unsuspecting you still need longer then you would if you would be running power for the dot’s to do their damage before the enemy is dead.

Saying there aren’t enough cleanses to handle application is the same as there not being enough defenses to heal through direct damage.

On the flip side it would be like someone complaining that a full clerics doesn’t heal through full zerker’s damage.

Condition damage has been nerfed enough is it me or is it not boring being able to just 1111 your way though every fight. I laugh all the time when 1111 spamers moan about how i am a noob because i am using a condi build well it takes way more skill to keep up time on condis than i does to just mash 1.