Guild Wars 2

It begins really to be unfun nowdays playing roaming with such a amount of those condi dudes. When will anet starting tone down this no skill spamm crap? Even at zerging condi spamm is everywhere. -.-

Not until all 3 gamemodes have different skills and are balanced

Condi have a very low skillfloor. And yes it sucks nowdays to play this game in any pvp mode it offers.

Strong condi thief builds are typically compromised in some way and do have an Achilles heel so to speak. I find Blow Up Burn DH, Condi Chrono and Chill Bleed Necros to be far more vicious. I’d rather fight a couple thieves any day over overlapping Necros dropping chill bombs with compound health bars.

If you can’t beat them, join them. Sadly, condi is the meta and will probably stay for a while.

Lahmia.2193:

If you can’t beat them, join them. Sadly, condi is the meta and will probably stay for a while.

Meta is meta. If it weren’t condi, it would be something else. At some point players are just going to have to accept whatever the meta is and deal.

I do find it cathartic to discuss various specific OP aspects of the current meta (skills, traits, builds) but general QQ often reads as LTP or at least “Adapt To Play”.

Straegen.2938:

Lahmia.2193:

If you can’t beat them, join them. Sadly, condi is the meta and will probably stay for a while.

Meta is meta. If it weren’t condi, it would be something else. At some point players are just going to have to accept whatever the meta is and deal.

I do find it cathartic to discuss various specific OP aspects of the current meta (skills, traits, builds) but general QQ often reads as LTP or at least “Adapt To Play”.

I do not think that that is the issue people have with the condi meta. When zerk was meta, you could at least still kill them. It was a high risk, high reward meta. If you didnt have skill, you’d die quick.

With this condi meta, its now people spamming aoe condis with tank-type gear (eg. dire/tb) and running around like chickens with their heads cut off while condis tick away. Low risk, , low skill, high reward.

If you want more evidence, I was in a zerg last night in EB, with 50 people. Out of those 50 people, 34 of them were reapers (dunno builds, but you can assume the majority of them were condi, if not all). that will eventually be an issue Anet will have to deal with. When people flock to a class like there, it’s usually an indication that something is not quite balanced with that class.

Lahmia.2193:

If you can’t beat them, join them. Sadly, condi is the meta and will probably stay for a while.

This is so true unfortunately. After the recent nerfs to power war ive started experimenting with condi war. ANET slowly pushing people to condi.

I think people should be playing more of the builds they critique. I do not consider myself as highyly skilled yet do not have the issues killing Condi Builds that some seem to have. For thief in particular it really does not matter if they power or condi, they always have escape ability. Condi can just “hang around” more while power has to pull off. Given I play both Condi thief and power thief, I know the weaknesses of the Condi just by having faced persons on my condition build who also know those weaknesses and exploit them. (After every fight I tend to look back on the logs to try to determine how it done)

My own rule of thumb is this. If I am on a given build for XXX hours and 20 plus percent of the total players I encounter can deal with it , than the build can not be OP.

Now to Zerg fights in particular and all of hat AOE, that an entirely different issue and has little to do with the thief or with individual condition builds in general. It how it all works and is magnified in a blob. The nature of a blob fight negates much of the inherent downsides of a given build type.

So more people should play condi? That’s your solution? The reason people complain is because its not fun to play such low risk, high reward things. But when the most effective thing is something that takes so little effort, that’s what people flock to. That’s the issue most people have with condi now. It’s not fun to fight against some noob in tank gear who’s keyboard turning and putting in such little effort, while you have to put in so much more effort to try and kill them.

The risk/reward is way off. No one is saying that we can’t kill them. Its that the amount of effort it takes us to kill them compared to the minimal effort they have to put in is ridiculous and totally off balance. I’ve tried condi builds to learn how to counter them, i cant stand that playstyle. It’s far too easy compared to playing a power build. If dire did the same damage as soldier, it wouldnt be an issue. But dire has the same damage output as zerker, thats where the problem is. Dire should be the equivalent of soldier. But right now a power equivalent to dire would be power as a major stat with toughness, precision, vitality, and ferocity as minor stats. Basically just add soldier level toughness and vitality onto current zerker stats and then you have the power equivalent of dire.

Nikkinella.8254:

So more people should play condi? That’s your solution? The reason people complain is because its not fun to play such low risk, high reward things. But when the most effective thing is something that takes so little effort, that’s what people flock to. That’s the issue most people have with condi now. It’s not fun to fight against some noob in tank gear who’s keyboard turning and putting in such little effort, while you have to put in so much more effort to try and kill them.

The risk/reward is way off. No one is saying that we can’t kill them. Its that the amount of effort it takes us to kill them compared to the minimal effort they have to put in is ridiculous and totally off balance. I’ve tried condi builds to learn how to counter them, i cant stand that playstyle. It’s far too easy compared to playing a power build. If dire did the same damage as soldier, it wouldnt be an issue. But dire has the same damage output as zerker, thats where the problem is. Dire should be the equivalent of soldier. But right now a power equivalent to dire would be power as a major stat with toughness, precision, vitality, and ferocity as minor stats. Basically just add soldier level toughness and vitality onto current zerker stats and then you have the power equivalent of dire.

Dire does NOT have the same damage output as zerker.

Dire only has one stat that can increase damage. Vitality and toughness is for sustain.

The damage output of a condition build comes almost exclusively from traits and weapon skills. A person in Dire puts out no more damage then someone in Carrion and it not a heck of a lot more then someone in Settlers or Shamans. Zerker on the other hand puts out a heck of a lot more damage then someone in Soldiers.

Whether you can not stand the playstyle is immaterial. I do not much like playing the engineer. It hardly means they need to be removed from the game given people in fact like playing the class. not does it mean they OP or a plague. I play condition builds so I can understand how they work and how to counter them and for a change of pace. Again I am hardly elite player and I do not find it anymore tedious to kill a person who is using a condition build then I do fighting a Mesmer with his clones.

A fight does not have to end in 11 seconds to make it fun.

Just to repeat myself as people STILL do not get it , DIRE has only one Stat that increases damage in a condition build. DIRE is not the issue when it comes to damage output in condition builds. The condition build I have been using of late is in fact in CARRION because damage output is higher then were he in Dire. He has all of 2118 armor, the same as any Zerker thief. BOO hoo if you find him too tedious to kill. Oh as a by the way he tends to beat thieves that wear dire. He does more damage.

Whether you agree with it or not, the fact of the matter is dire deals entirely too much damage for how tanky it is. It was at one point available in spvp for all of 2 days before it was removed because it was too overpowered. Yet they thought it was a good idea to release the stat to the rest of the game anyway. And fights should be fun for BOTH parties involved. Condi builds are only fun for those playing them. The majority find condi builds frustrating and annoying to fight against. When its only fun for the person playing it, that’s bad game design. And something that is easy to play shouldn’t be powerful, that’s unbalanced. And playing a condi build with max toughness and vitality is significantly easier than playing a zerker that will die if they miss one dodge. And they absolutely do deal the same amount of damage if not more than someone in zerk gear.

i was killing my self on my pew pew DH because of frost aura and bleeds. seems legit lol

babazhook.6805:

I think people should be playing more of the builds they critique. I do not consider myself as highyly skilled yet do not have the issues killing Condi Builds that some seem to have. For thief in particular it really does not matter if they power or condi, they always have escape ability. Condi can just “hang around” more while power has to pull off. Given I play both Condi thief and power thief, I know the weaknesses of the Condi just by having faced persons on my condition build who also know those weaknesses and exploit them. (After every fight I tend to look back on the logs to try to determine how it done)

My own rule of thumb is this. If I am on a given build for XXX hours and 20 plus percent of the total players I encounter can deal with it , than the build can not be OP.

Now to Zerg fights in particular and all of hat AOE, that an entirely different issue and has little to do with the thief or with individual condition builds in general. It how it all works and is magnified in a blob. The nature of a blob fight negates much of the inherent downsides of a given build type.

so whats condi thief weakness?
cus i tried condi thief with some cheap ass gear, and all i did was pop a poison field spam some evades
which add more poison
and possibly bleed(from dodge trait to drop bleed)
tornament etc
on a interupt after 5? stacks of poison i add more tornaments(trait again in trickster?) i use that skill(some share able poison crap) to have 5 times poison added to my attacks or w/e, so all in all i will just wreck u in seconds.

cus i stack up so much poison stacks when i pop you out of surprise.
poison field (while in hide) > steal > dodge > hit > dodge > hit > dodge > hit <- tons of interupts tons of poisons possibly bleeds

interupts = the impact stuff
interupts = tornaments

i mean i didnt really see my weakness at all given the fact that i have my traits window perma open dragged to far left side so i could switch between dash(for swiftness when running around and other crap for evading in poison fields, ye im sorry i dont know em names and to lazy to check up).

none the less i found it so easy and not fun at all i went back to good old power thief.

reddie.5861:

babazhook.6805:

I think people should be playing more of the builds they critique. I do not consider myself as highyly skilled yet do not have the issues killing Condi Builds that some seem to have. For thief in particular it really does not matter if they power or condi, they always have escape ability. Condi can just “hang around” more while power has to pull off. Given I play both Condi thief and power thief, I know the weaknesses of the Condi just by having faced persons on my condition build who also know those weaknesses and exploit them. (After every fight I tend to look back on the logs to try to determine how it done)

My own rule of thumb is this. If I am on a given build for XXX hours and 20 plus percent of the total players I encounter can deal with it , than the build can not be OP.

Now to Zerg fights in particular and all of hat AOE, that an entirely different issue and has little to do with the thief or with individual condition builds in general. It how it all works and is magnified in a blob. The nature of a blob fight negates much of the inherent downsides of a given build type.

so whats condi thief weakness?
cus i tried condi thief with some cheap ass gear, and all i did was pop a poison field spam some evades which add more poison and possibly bleed tornament etc on interupt after 5? stacks of poison i add more tornaments i use that skill to have 5 times poison added to my attacks or w/e..

i mean i didnt really see my weakness at all given the fact that i have my traits window perma open dragged to far left side so i could switch between dash(for swiftness when running around and other crap for evading in poison fields, ye im sorry i dont know em names and to lazy to check up).

none the less i found it so easy and not fun at all i went back to good old power thief.

That’s easy. Another condi theif. They will have their eternal battle of run away and refresh. The one that’s bad at running away dies (aka all skills)

Atleast power thrives I can try land my burst, but condi theif?….

reddie.5861:

babazhook.6805:

I think people should be playing more of the builds they critique. I do not consider myself as highyly skilled yet do not have the issues killing Condi Builds that some seem to have. For thief in particular it really does not matter if they power or condi, they always have escape ability. Condi can just “hang around” more while power has to pull off. Given I play both Condi thief and power thief, I know the weaknesses of the Condi just by having faced persons on my condition build who also know those weaknesses and exploit them. (After every fight I tend to look back on the logs to try to determine how it done)

My own rule of thumb is this. If I am on a given build for XXX hours and 20 plus percent of the total players I encounter can deal with it , than the build can not be OP.

Now to Zerg fights in particular and all of hat AOE, that an entirely different issue and has little to do with the thief or with individual condition builds in general. It how it all works and is magnified in a blob. The nature of a blob fight negates much of the inherent downsides of a given build type.

so whats condi thief weakness?
cus i tried condi thief with some cheap ass gear, and all i did was pop a poison field spam some evades
which add more poison
and possibly bleed(from dodge trait to drop bleed)
tornament etc
on a interupt after 5? stacks of poison i add more tornaments(trait again in trickster?) i use that skill(some share able poison crap) to have 5 times poison added to my attacks or w/e, so all in all i will just wreck u in seconds.

cus i stack up so much poison stacks when i pop you out of surprise.
poison field (while in hide) > steal > dodge > hit > dodge > hit > dodge > hit <- tons of interupts tons of poisons possibly bleeds

interupts = the impact stuff
interupts = tornaments

i mean i didnt really see my weakness at all given the fact that i have my traits window perma open dragged to far left side so i could switch between dash(for swiftness when running around and other crap for evading in poison fields, ye im sorry i dont know em names and to lazy to check up).

none the less i found it so easy and not fun at all i went back to good old power thief.

Please try some builds before claiming there nothing you can do.

I have a power thief that uses Staff and P/p that kills them dead. I have a power warrior with boon time and resistance that kills them dead. Carrion hybrid thief kills them dead. These are the two classes I am most familiar with and can speak to directly but I have also been killed dead by well played necroes and mesmers and Elementalists when I was on condition. The thing they all had in common was they traited condition cleanses and knew when to cleanse. Another thing they do is not stand inside a poison field as a theif they face spams deathblossom. It really not hard to move away you see.

Play your condition thief NOT because it more fun or because it OP. Play it to see how other peoples counter.

Nikkinella.8254:

Whether you agree with it or not, the fact of the matter is dire deals entirely too much damage for how tanky it is. It was at one point available in spvp for all of 2 days before it was removed because it was too overpowered. Yet they thought it was a good idea to release the stat to the rest of the game anyway. And fights should be fun for BOTH parties involved. Condi builds are only fun for those playing them. The majority find condi builds frustrating and annoying to fight against. When its only fun for the person playing it, that’s bad game design. And something that is easy to play shouldn’t be powerful, that’s unbalanced. And playing a condi build with max toughness and vitality is significantly easier than playing a zerker that will die if they miss one dodge. And they absolutely do deal the same amount of damage if not more than someone in zerk gear.

DIRE is not dealing the damage. Dire is providing sustain. Carrion puts out more damage then dire this is a fact.

Hyperbole is not an argument. I play against condition builds with my power builds and enjoy it. YOU are you. You do not speak for every other player.

Do not use Pvp as an argument for anything. By design they do not want tanky builds as it extends a given match too long. The people that favor PvP want short and intense fights because they wnt the match over and done so they can get into the next. The design of the format itself does not want matches that drag on or people will drop out part ways through.

As to whether a build easier why would I care? If I face it on one of my power builds I enjoy the challenge of besting it. So what if I do not? I look back at a log, see how I can change up things and go at it again. Or I bring on my build that is better traited to deal with the same. It not hard and I find it rather fun. I personally find Warrior “easier to play” then engineer. It does not follow Warrior must be OP or not fun to play or play against.

babazhook.6805:

Nikkinella.8254:

Whether you agree with it or not, the fact of the matter is dire deals entirely too much damage for how tanky it is. It was at one point available in spvp for all of 2 days before it was removed because it was too overpowered. Yet they thought it was a good idea to release the stat to the rest of the game anyway. And fights should be fun for BOTH parties involved. Condi builds are only fun for those playing them. The majority find condi builds frustrating and annoying to fight against. When its only fun for the person playing it, that’s bad game design. And something that is easy to play shouldn’t be powerful, that’s unbalanced. And playing a condi build with max toughness and vitality is significantly easier than playing a zerker that will die if they miss one dodge. And they absolutely do deal the same amount of damage if not more than someone in zerk gear.

DIRE is not dealing the damage. Dire is providing sustain. Carrion puts out more damage then dire this is a fact.

Hyperbole is not an argument. I play against condition builds with my power builds and enjoy it. YOU are you. You do not speak for every other player.

Do not use Pvp as an argument for anything. By design they do not want tanky builds as it extends a given match too long. The people that favor PvP want short and intense fights because they wnt the match over and done so they can get into the next. The design of the format itself does not want matches that drag on or people will drop out part ways through.

As to whether a build easier why would I care? If I face it on one of my power builds I enjoy the challenge of besting it. So what if I do not? I look back at a log, see how I can change up things and go at it again. Or I bring on my build that is better traited to deal with the same. It not hard and I find it rather fun. I personally find Warrior “easier to play” then engineer. It does not follow Warrior must be OP or not fun to play or play against.

Dire, doesn’t deal damage, yeah ok…

Just another person defending a broken meta in favor of abusing such an easy, face-roll playstyle.

You can say you, “Play” power builds, but we all know the wolf in sheeps clothing act by now, and going out of your way to say gear like Dire and TB, are fine and are only used for the, “Sustain” they give, is ludicrous.

Odokuro.5049:

babazhook.6805:

Nikkinella.8254:

Whether you agree with it or not, the fact of the matter is dire deals entirely too much damage for how tanky it is. It was at one point available in spvp for all of 2 days before it was removed because it was too overpowered. Yet they thought it was a good idea to release the stat to the rest of the game anyway. And fights should be fun for BOTH parties involved. Condi builds are only fun for those playing them. The majority find condi builds frustrating and annoying to fight against. When its only fun for the person playing it, that’s bad game design. And something that is easy to play shouldn’t be powerful, that’s unbalanced. And playing a condi build with max toughness and vitality is significantly easier than playing a zerker that will die if they miss one dodge. And they absolutely do deal the same amount of damage if not more than someone in zerk gear.

DIRE is not dealing the damage. Dire is providing sustain. Carrion puts out more damage then dire this is a fact.

Hyperbole is not an argument. I play against condition builds with my power builds and enjoy it. YOU are you. You do not speak for every other player.

Do not use Pvp as an argument for anything. By design they do not want tanky builds as it extends a given match too long. The people that favor PvP want short and intense fights because they wnt the match over and done so they can get into the next. The design of the format itself does not want matches that drag on or people will drop out part ways through.

As to whether a build easier why would I care? If I face it on one of my power builds I enjoy the challenge of besting it. So what if I do not? I look back at a log, see how I can change up things and go at it again. Or I bring on my build that is better traited to deal with the same. It not hard and I find it rather fun. I personally find Warrior “easier to play” then engineer. It does not follow Warrior must be OP or not fun to play or play against.

Dire, doesn’t deal damage, yeah ok…

Just another person defending a broken meta in favor of abusing such an easy, face-roll playstyle.

You can say you, “Play” power builds, but we all know the wolf in sheeps clothing act by now, and going out of your way to say gear like Dire and TB, are fine and are only used for the, “Sustain” they give, is ludicrous.

I do not use dire. Other builds deal superior damage. See this is the essence of the argument of you and too many like you. You can not refute the facts made so try the old “defending a broken playstyle” approach. It a juvenile argument. I reaaly do not care that you do not believe I play power builds. Again another puerile argument. Believe whatever it is you wish if it makes you feel better. I know what I play. I do not need your approval .

Now I did try DIRE for a time on a thief> I learned its weaknesses and moved away and in fact found shamans and apothecary worked even better than dire before I moved on from those.. I have also mentioned this many times. I have run into more of these theives of late and do not have issues dealing with them.

80 percent of my toons are power builds.

Of the condition builds as example, I find Settlers superior for my warrior and ICarrion for my thief. I find Sinister or vipers better for my necro. Now I do use TB on the p/d condition thief but that more for the duration of conditions as it premised on immobs. He still dies in his TB and is a core build.

The point is I play a variety of builds so I can better know what I am talking about, unlike so many here that just run to the boards and cry “wahhhh call me a waahmbulance” every time they lose a fight to a build they “do not like” .

babazhook.6805:

Odokuro.5049:

babazhook.6805:

Nikkinella.8254:

Whether you agree with it or not, the fact of the matter is dire deals entirely too much damage for how tanky it is. It was at one point available in spvp for all of 2 days before it was removed because it was too overpowered. Yet they thought it was a good idea to release the stat to the rest of the game anyway. And fights should be fun for BOTH parties involved. Condi builds are only fun for those playing them. The majority find condi builds frustrating and annoying to fight against. When its only fun for the person playing it, that’s bad game design. And something that is easy to play shouldn’t be powerful, that’s unbalanced. And playing a condi build with max toughness and vitality is significantly easier than playing a zerker that will die if they miss one dodge. And they absolutely do deal the same amount of damage if not more than someone in zerk gear.

DIRE is not dealing the damage. Dire is providing sustain. Carrion puts out more damage then dire this is a fact.

Hyperbole is not an argument. I play against condition builds with my power builds and enjoy it. YOU are you. You do not speak for every other player.

Do not use Pvp as an argument for anything. By design they do not want tanky builds as it extends a given match too long. The people that favor PvP want short and intense fights because they wnt the match over and done so they can get into the next. The design of the format itself does not want matches that drag on or people will drop out part ways through.

As to whether a build easier why would I care? If I face it on one of my power builds I enjoy the challenge of besting it. So what if I do not? I look back at a log, see how I can change up things and go at it again. Or I bring on my build that is better traited to deal with the same. It not hard and I find it rather fun. I personally find Warrior “easier to play” then engineer. It does not follow Warrior must be OP or not fun to play or play against.

Dire, doesn’t deal damage, yeah ok…

Just another person defending a broken meta in favor of abusing such an easy, face-roll playstyle.

You can say you, “Play” power builds, but we all know the wolf in sheeps clothing act by now, and going out of your way to say gear like Dire and TB, are fine and are only used for the, “Sustain” they give, is ludicrous.

I do not use dire. Other builds deal superior damage. See this is the essence of the argument of you and too many like you. You can not refute the facts made so try the old “defending a broken playstyle” approach. It a juvenile argument. I reaaly do not care that you do not believe I play power builds. Again another puerile argument. Believe whatever it is you wish if it makes you feel better. I know what I play. I do not need your approval .

Now I did try DIRE for a time on a thief> I learned its weaknesses and moved away and in fact found shamans and apothecary worked even better than dire before I moved on from those.. I have also mentioned this many times. I have run into more of these theives of late and do not have issues dealing with them.

80 percent of my toons are power builds.

Of the condition builds as example, I find Settlers superior for my warrior and ICarrion for my thief. I find Sinister or vipers better for my necro. Now I do use TB on the p/d condition thief but that more for the duration of conditions as it premised on immobs. He still dies in his TB and is a core build.

The point is I play a variety of builds so I can better know what I am talking about, unlike so many here that just run to the boards and cry “wahhhh call me a waahmbulance” every time they lose a fight to a build they “do not like” .

I’m not saying there is gear out there that deals better damage than Dire/TB, but what I am saying is that, Dire/TB give up nothing to deal substantial condition damage, while, power builds to deal substantial damage, need to give up things like toughness/vitality. Now the subject of, “What about soldiers, ect.”, well see, there is flat damage, that power builds deal, what you see is what you get, while condition builds linger on and on, and no amount of cleanse is going to match that level of output.

I’ve played this game long enough to see the meta change several times, and whenever it is condi, it far surpasses that of any power.

This is the POWER build I use in WvW warrior. It really has no issues with condition builds unless it faces a Boon corrupt necro. Even then it has superior mobility to the same and does well enough.

It really has few issues with other condition builds and multiples of the same and faces off very well against fellow power builds.

Note the weapons choice changes. He carries everything but off hand sword and a Longbow and will switch off depending on his mood. He will use axe axe , mace mace and any other combo . The one listed is the more common setup. (Eternal champion over bloody roar also used dependent on what I face over the night)

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vJAQNAseRjMdQfHW3BWhAnIWmCMkEQEoB8uabtz2jjQAYkB-TFSBQB+TfgZUCCgTAAFeCAXR5X5OEAOU9n9t/ApACcrF-w

Once cruelty stacks BLOOD reaction kicks in added to that with Uber high precision.This pushes ferocity much higher. I stck up precision from using signets between figths so it always at 5 stacks via signet mastery. Might will generally run at a constant 15 stacks in combat just from the sigil and food combination. Lots of health. Lots of armor. High resistance uptime. Crit rate generally around 90 percent. It works fine for me and can deal with multiple condition users at once.

A condition thief relying on only BT for steal of boons can not deal with this.

Fact. Facing a Condition build in Dire (thief specifically) this build has near the same armor, more health and deals more damage. High resistance uptime neutralizes the majoirty of damage of a condition thief without impacting ability to dish it out,

weakness con thief is confusion mesmer or burn guard. <- both in the meta so the build is fine.

Keep fighting the good fight babazhook, I’d have given up a long time ago.

Rashagar.8349:

Keep fighting the good fight babazhook, I’d have given up a long time ago.

I can not help but notice the latest PvP thread where people complain about the Bunker meta and “Players cleansing all conditions as fast as they are applied”.

babazhook.6805:

reddie.5861:

babazhook.6805:

I think people should be playing more of the builds they critique. I do not consider myself as highyly skilled yet do not have the issues killing Condi Builds that some seem to have. For thief in particular it really does not matter if they power or condi, they always have escape ability. Condi can just “hang around” more while power has to pull off. Given I play both Condi thief and power thief, I know the weaknesses of the Condi just by having faced persons on my condition build who also know those weaknesses and exploit them. (After every fight I tend to look back on the logs to try to determine how it done)

My own rule of thumb is this. If I am on a given build for XXX hours and 20 plus percent of the total players I encounter can deal with it , than the build can not be OP.

Now to Zerg fights in particular and all of hat AOE, that an entirely different issue and has little to do with the thief or with individual condition builds in general. It how it all works and is magnified in a blob. The nature of a blob fight negates much of the inherent downsides of a given build type.

so whats condi thief weakness?
cus i tried condi thief with some cheap ass gear, and all i did was pop a poison field spam some evades
which add more poison
and possibly bleed(from dodge trait to drop bleed)
tornament etc
on a interupt after 5? stacks of poison i add more tornaments(trait again in trickster?) i use that skill(some share able poison crap) to have 5 times poison added to my attacks or w/e, so all in all i will just wreck u in seconds.

cus i stack up so much poison stacks when i pop you out of surprise.
poison field (while in hide) > steal > dodge > hit > dodge > hit > dodge > hit <- tons of interupts tons of poisons possibly bleeds

interupts = the impact stuff
interupts = tornaments

i mean i didnt really see my weakness at all given the fact that i have my traits window perma open dragged to far left side so i could switch between dash(for swiftness when running around and other crap for evading in poison fields, ye im sorry i dont know em names and to lazy to check up).

none the less i found it so easy and not fun at all i went back to good old power thief.

Please try some builds before claiming there nothing you can do.

I have a power thief that uses Staff and P/p that kills them dead. I have a power warrior with boon time and resistance that kills them dead. Carrion hybrid thief kills them dead. These are the two classes I am most familiar with and can speak to directly but I have also been killed dead by well played necroes and mesmers and Elementalists when I was on condition. The thing they all had in common was they traited condition cleanses and knew when to cleanse. Another thing they do is not stand inside a poison field as a theif they face spams deathblossom. It really not hard to move away you see.

Play your condition thief NOT because it more fun or because it OP. Play it to see how other peoples counter.

the thing is i dont do anything beside this

P/D > 5 > 2 > hide
move in switch short bow
Cast 2 (poison) while in hide, this stuff travels while u pop some poison kitten that is added to your attacks so u auto attack with bow poison field drops u spam evades which triggers aoe poison spam + some other condi’s u interupt which triggers the the impact skill

tbh i didnt had problem like this as thief ofcourse i didnt kill everything and every1 but its far easier to play then a power thief giving the fact that if u make a error on condi thief u can actually sustain some hits if ur out of skills to get out quick while power thief ur pretty much kittened.

Taobella.6597:

weakness con thief is confusion mesmer or burn guard. <- both in the meta so the build is fine.

how? mesmer steal skill is giving thief immunity and enough time to smash mesmer
i dont think a mesmer has upper hand over a thief they are prolly equal in a 1v1 but for sure not a thief counter neither is a guard cus the way i played condi thief i didnt do anything beside spamming evades and use 1 / 2 poison fields so screw the guard i would not even be near him while he is having all poison stacks up and kitten easy to re apply em..

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vZAQJAVVn8lClOhFNBGOB8PhFYCz7LsoGRa/pAQBYOEeCThA-T5QHgAAXBgw9HEeEAAA there that build double short bow with some exotic gear from AH was cheap crap but basically hitting 4 from short bow + spider venom would daze some1 + using dodges near him would trigger a combo from the field which is more poisons and possibly bleeds + tornaments on evades + on interupts which ull get from poison stacks/steal.

the build is broken and thats coming from a thief..

tho im a condi hater so maybe thats why i call it broken i just tried it and it was to easy to apply tons and tons of condi’s in short time while condi dmg was insane.
top of that i was pretty much immune applying condi’s cus of my evade spam in poison fields and then port out with shadow step watching u bleed out if not port back and repeat

Meta cannot be broken… certain builds can be OP but meta is meta.

As for general condi in the meta, yes it is strong but that is not what this thread is about… it is about condi thief. Condi thief is no stronger than several other strong condi classes.

High sustain builds are just as strong as condi builds if not stronger. Fighting a DH is managing massive DPS every second while hoping they exhaust their ridiculous numbers of blocks, invulns, etc. That class is by far the lowest skill floor with the highest effectiveness. It dominates skirmish, duels, havoc, zergs. Guardians have been the most dominant class in the game since pre-release and have seen so few nerfs compared to every other class I am not even sure they know what one looks like.

Just go condi urself. Everyone is doing it now. NO real change is gonna be made until everyone uses and abuses it lol.

Waste of time to debate balance. Just keep changing to what is OP, if the devs don’t fix it then they dont fix it…..you both win in that case. Gives devs more reason to keep the game balanced if people automatically drop what they playing and choose what is overpowered and one-sided.

Condi is handsdown the worst meta Ive seen so far. Literally takes no skill to execute. Low risk high reward because you can tank up like crazy and still hit like a truck.

it was pretty obvious they would start pushing a condi meta a long time ago when zerk was the only thing being used in wvw and every one was crying omg condi is useless …. I wonder if they are still thinking about introducing more underwater game play or if they totally gave up on that after removing the one underwater pvp map ????

reddie.5861:

Taobella.6597:

weakness con thief is confusion mesmer or burn guard. <- both in the meta so the build is fine.

how? mesmer steal skill is giving thief immunity and enough time to smash mesmer
i dont think a mesmer has upper hand over a thief they are prolly equal in a 1v1 but for sure not a thief counter neither is a guard cus the way i played condi thief i didnt do anything beside spamming evades and use 1 / 2 poison fields so screw the guard i would not even be near him while he is having all poison stacks up and kitten easy to re apply em..

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vZAQJAVVn8lClOhFNBGOB8PhFYCz7LsoGRa/pAQBYOEeCThA-T5QHgAAXBgw9HEeEAAA there that build double short bow with some exotic gear from AH was cheap crap but basically hitting 4 from short bow + spider venom would daze some1 + using dodges near him would trigger a combo from the field which is more poisons and possibly bleeds + tornaments on evades + on interupts which ull get from poison stacks/steal.

the build is broken and thats coming from a thief..

tho im a condi hater so maybe thats why i call it broken i just tried it and it was to easy to apply tons and tons of condi’s in short time while condi dmg was insane.
top of that i was pretty much immune applying condi’s cus of my evade spam in poison fields and then port out with shadow step watching u bleed out if not port back and repeat

because clone will consume con hit space out thief attack on top of that most con builds do not run that great of con removal so you start stacking up confusion on them it become problematic fast for a thief. becuase most hit are chain hit proc confusion mulitable time . if they running “signet of asgility” you just space them out because they have no burst in prolong fight.

upfront the build does insane dmg but if something can draw the fight out for about 40 seconds build die really fast.

but judging by the build you are running retal would be hardest match up.

As a DPS thief, I beat my cancer brethren maybe ~65% of the time in a 1v1. Thing is about a condi is that they are either venom share or D/D perma evade. Venom share I eat their condi attacks, quickly cleanse (as they usually have all venoms popped right away) and away we go.

For perma evade, Keep ranged and let them drain their endurance/initiative trying to load you up. Where I tried this build (to learn to counter it), openings to CC are small but they are there and they don’t do range well

I will say I did see a trapper condi DD about 2 weeks ago. Didn’t realize what he was until i triggered traps, he tried top condi me but failed (timed cleanse ftw)

They are def strong and does take more time to learn to fight them than fighting DPS but downing them is so much more sweeter when you do.

Working as intended. Thieves needed buffs to solo kill raid bosses.

caveman.5840:

it was pretty obvious they would start pushing a condi meta a long time ago when zerk was the only thing being used in wvw and every one was crying omg condi is useless …. I wonder if they are still thinking about introducing more underwater game play or if they totally gave up on that after removing the one underwater pvp map ????

People forget this and then wonder why condi is so strong now. It’s very much a case of “be careful what you wish for.”

Lahmia.2193:

caveman.5840:

it was pretty obvious they would start pushing a condi meta a long time ago when zerk was the only thing being used in wvw and every one was crying omg condi is useless …. I wonder if they are still thinking about introducing more underwater game play or if they totally gave up on that after removing the one underwater pvp map ????

People forget this and then wonder why condi is so strong now. It’s very much a case of “be careful what you wish for.”

Here’s the thing though, we wanted Condi to be a competitive alternative to the, “Berserker Meta”, not completely overshadow it to the point what we have today, as it is, Berserker is still strong, but the sustain/tankyness and general level of, “LOLGetRektKID” level of ease condition builds have nowadays. The devs went above and beyond when, “Not making Condi useless.”

Odokuro.5049:

Lahmia.2193:

caveman.5840:

it was pretty obvious they would start pushing a condi meta a long time ago when zerk was the only thing being used in wvw and every one was crying omg condi is useless …. I wonder if they are still thinking about introducing more underwater game play or if they totally gave up on that after removing the one underwater pvp map ????

People forget this and then wonder why condi is so strong now. It’s very much a case of “be careful what you wish for.”

Here’s the thing though, we wanted Condi to be a competitive alternative to the, “Berserker Meta”, not completely overshadow it to the point what we have today, as it is, Berserker is still strong, but the sustain/tankyness and general level of, “LOLGetRektKID” level of ease condition builds have nowadays. The devs went above and beyond when, “Not making Condi useless.”

To play the Devil’s Advocate, it is very poetic. Once power reigned supreme and condi was useless. Now condi reigns supreme and power is useless. Someday we will go back to power > condi and the Circle of Balance will go on. If everyone joins the meta however, it is likely to shift quicker.

reddie.5861:

Taobella.6597:

weakness con thief is confusion mesmer or burn guard. <- both in the meta so the build is fine.

how? mesmer steal skill is giving thief immunity and enough time to smash mesmer
i dont think a mesmer has upper hand over a thief they are prolly equal in a 1v1 but for sure not a thief counter neither is a guard cus the way i played condi thief i didnt do anything beside spamming evades and use 1 / 2 poison fields so screw the guard i would not even be near him while he is having all poison stacks up and kitten easy to re apply em..

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vZAQJAVVn8lClOhFNBGOB8PhFYCz7LsoGRa/pAQBYOEeCThA-T5QHgAAXBgw9HEeEAAA there that build double short bow with some exotic gear from AH was cheap crap but basically hitting 4 from short bow + spider venom would daze some1 + using dodges near him would trigger a combo from the field which is more poisons and possibly bleeds + tornaments on evades + on interupts which ull get from poison stacks/steal.

the build is broken and thats coming from a thief..

tho im a condi hater so maybe thats why i call it broken i just tried it and it was to easy to apply tons and tons of condi’s in short time while condi dmg was insane.
top of that i was pretty much immune applying condi’s cus of my evade spam in poison fields and then port out with shadow step watching u bleed out if not port back and repeat

The condition immunity on a steal and consume plasma is lall of 2.5 seconds on a 20 plus second cooldown. That is hardly going to save the thief. It a stopgap to use when cleanses gone. I find it odd someone can claim this gives “immunity from conditions” then says conditions OP, then ignores the fact there classes such as the warrior that can string together 10 times the Immunity from resistance but this not a counter to conditions. What sort of reasoning is this.?

As to the SB CG all of those stacks come only if the enemy STANDS in the Circle and does nothing for the duration. There is two stacks of poison applied per second. 1 second is plenty to get out of a field just as it is to get out of any other field cast. When I am caught in a SB field I move OUT just as I do with any other field that is applying conditions. The 1 per 4 second potential interrupt does not impede movement. It is a daze not a stun.

This sounds very much like the people claiming Mortars OP because of all the fire stacks applied if someone just stood in the field.

To your whirl finishers inside that field. Again they are easily negated by the person moving out of the field. You are not playing against NPCS and Golems. If the person at the other end just stands there he deserves to get stacks of poison just as would happen damage wise if I stood there as a warrior used Hundred blades on me.

The range of the poison bolts from a whirl finisher is all of 240 units. Arc Divider has a longer range. Claiming a skill OP then premising it upon an enemy player being dumb as a rock demonstrates nothing to show the skill op.

Lahmia.2193:

Odokuro.5049:

Lahmia.2193:

caveman.5840:

it was pretty obvious they would start pushing a condi meta a long time ago when zerk was the only thing being used in wvw and every one was crying omg condi is useless …. I wonder if they are still thinking about introducing more underwater game play or if they totally gave up on that after removing the one underwater pvp map ????

People forget this and then wonder why condi is so strong now. It’s very much a case of “be careful what you wish for.”

Here’s the thing though, we wanted Condi to be a competitive alternative to the, “Berserker Meta”, not completely overshadow it to the point what we have today, as it is, Berserker is still strong, but the sustain/tankyness and general level of, “LOLGetRektKID” level of ease condition builds have nowadays. The devs went above and beyond when, “Not making Condi useless.”

To play the Devil’s Advocate, it is very poetic. Once power reigned supreme and condi was useless. Now condi reigns supreme and power is useless. Someday we will go back to power > condi and the Circle of Balance will go on. If everyone joins the meta however, it is likely to shift quicker.

The game balances itself. People went tankier in part to deal with that spike damage from power that can . The burst potential of the thief from stealth had a great deal to do with this as they could take a person down quickly. By integrating more toughness in a build the person who received that first burst could oftimes recover and counter.

In response to this added toughness many more condition builds came into play , this in conjunction with the added damage from said builds which overall was medicore for a great deal of the games history.

This tankiness was and is not restricted to Condition builds. I gave a link to my tanky power build above and it has pretty well the same armor as any dire thief and much more vitality along with long lasting resistance. Over on PvP they are now complaining there too many tanks that just cleanse conditions as they applied.

Another response to high toughness/vitality builds that use Conditions is also happening and this the hyrbrid build which, given toughness does not help the build deal with conditions, sacrifices the same for more power damage. My own hybrid thief is like this having 2K plus power and the same Condition damage as any wearing Dire. Thus when he faces a condition build using Dire (or TB to a lesser extent) he is at advantage damage wise and significantly so . This is using Carrion and gives up armor (at 2116). He has no loss in vitality stacked against Dire.

This carrion build is more vulnerable to power builds while carrying above average number of cleanses to further help counter other condition users.

I do not see the presence of Zerker/tank condition/Tank power and hybrid all in one as being bad for the game. If there any issues with one specific type, it can be addressed at the level of an individual given skill or trait. There no need to break the system down to mollify the people who by their own words hate a specific build type and do not want to see it around.

If ANET caters to that one crowd they will lose more customers as it diversity of builds that attract many people to a game. There a small vocal group that have been against condition builds from the very first all advocating the kill or be killed in 10 seconds or less playstyle while claiming it skill based. It just leads to a get the first hit in and win meta which pushes a whole lot of people out of the game.

That people of high skill and low skill and medium skill can all play the game is a good thing. From my perspective , when I see some of those logs from PVp where a person receives whispers from another player, the true Cancer in the game are the players who consider themselves elite and dismiss everyone else as a NOOB or useless whining and QQ’ing everytime they lose a fight then blaming a fellow teamate for the loss or complaining about OP builds that they can not deal with.

mulzi.8273:

When zerk was meta, you could at least still kill them. It was a high risk, high reward meta. If you didnt have skill, you’d die quick.

Not really, the zerk builds that actually got played 95% of the time in this game (both PvP & WvW) were not high risk at all, because they either had a silly level of engage/disengage, along with binary defenses that negated the lack of HP/toughness with zerk or were actually relatively tanky for being able to put obscene amounts of damage, the things that actually had some meaningful level of risk for example zerk static discharge engy were barely played.

zinkz.7045:

mulzi.8273:

When zerk was meta, you could at least still kill them. It was a high risk, high reward meta. If you didnt have skill, you’d die quick.

Not really, the zerk builds that actually got played 95% of the time in this game (both PvP & WvW) were not high risk at all, because they either had a silly level of engage/disengage or were actually relatively tanky for being able to put obscene amounts of damage, the things that actually had some meaningful level of risk for example zerk static discharge engy were barely played.

Give me all 95% of this zerk builds examples? Tyvm. Don’t make bold claims when you can’t back it up.

babazhook.6805:

reddie.5861:

Taobella.6597:

weakness con thief is confusion mesmer or burn guard. <- both in the meta so the build is fine.

how? mesmer steal skill is giving thief immunity and enough time to smash mesmer
i dont think a mesmer has upper hand over a thief they are prolly equal in a 1v1 but for sure not a thief counter neither is a guard cus the way i played condi thief i didnt do anything beside spamming evades and use 1 / 2 poison fields so screw the guard i would not even be near him while he is having all poison stacks up and kitten easy to re apply em..

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vZAQJAVVn8lClOhFNBGOB8PhFYCz7LsoGRa/pAQBYOEeCThA-T5QHgAAXBgw9HEeEAAA there that build double short bow with some exotic gear from AH was cheap crap but basically hitting 4 from short bow + spider venom would daze some1 + using dodges near him would trigger a combo from the field which is more poisons and possibly bleeds + tornaments on evades + on interupts which ull get from poison stacks/steal.

the build is broken and thats coming from a thief..

tho im a condi hater so maybe thats why i call it broken i just tried it and it was to easy to apply tons and tons of condi’s in short time while condi dmg was insane.
top of that i was pretty much immune applying condi’s cus of my evade spam in poison fields and then port out with shadow step watching u bleed out if not port back and repeat

The condition immunity on a steal and consume plasma is lall of 2.5 seconds on a 20 plus second cooldown. That is hardly going to save the thief. It a stopgap to use when cleanses gone. I find it odd someone can claim this gives “immunity from conditions” then says conditions OP, then ignores the fact there classes such as the warrior that can string together 10 times the Immunity from resistance but this not a counter to conditions. What sort of reasoning is this.?

As to the SB CG all of those stacks come only if the enemy STANDS in the Circle and does nothing for the duration. There is two stacks of poison applied per second. 1 second is plenty to get out of a field just as it is to get out of any other field cast. When I am caught in a SB field I move OUT just as I do with any other field that is applying conditions. The 1 per 4 second potential interrupt does not impede movement. It is a daze not a stun.

This sounds very much like the people claiming Mortars OP because of all the fire stacks applied if someone just stood in the field.

To your whirl finishers inside that field. Again they are easily negated by the person moving out of the field. You are not playing against NPCS and Golems. If the person at the other end just stands there he deserves to get stacks of poison just as would happen damage wise if I stood there as a warrior used Hundred blades on me.

The range of the poison bolts from a whirl finisher is all of 240 units. Arc Divider has a longer range. Claiming a skill OP then premising it upon an enemy player being dumb as a rock demonstrates nothing to show the skill op.

then gw2 according to you is full of dumb players, i have done my kitten inside blobs and on solo players u can cleanse etc all u want but i never give a full blow of all condi at once when i did try this crap above..

also many people (including me) will just panic button smash when i pop out of hide smashing condi on you which do hurt.

getting one below 50% for a immobillize isnt insane hard also trust me this build that i dropped there is kitten easy to play and will get you bags / kills so easy.
condi just needs to be upped in dmg and toned down in way how easy its to reapply it (for all classes) cus u can nag all you want but condi’s fly out so easy and stacking them up is also so kitten easy.

People still have trouble with condi? K.

Condi is a joke atm, simple as that.
Spammy, brain dead builds aren’t fun to play or play against.

The biggest issue in wvw is balance, not rewards and shinny fluff.
Game will inevitably die if it’s not sorted, please pay attention anet.

ThunderPanda.1872:

zinkz.7045:

mulzi.8273:

When zerk was meta, you could at least still kill them. It was a high risk, high reward meta. If you didnt have skill, you’d die quick.

Not really, the zerk builds that actually got played 95% of the time in this game (both PvP & WvW) were not high risk at all, because they either had a silly level of engage/disengage or were actually relatively tanky for being able to put obscene amounts of damage, the things that actually had some meaningful level of risk for example zerk static discharge engy were barely played.

Give me all 95% of this zerk builds examples? Tyvm. Don’t make bold claims when you can’t back it up.

What? Are you new from PvE? Do you really need it explained to you why roaming on say a zerk thief wasn’t really high risk?

zinkz.7045:

What? Are you new from PvE? Do you really need it explained to you why roaming on say a zerk thief wasn’t really high risk?

In terms of disengage? Sure, if you didn’t need to use your shadowstep for a stunbreak or condi cleanse.

In terms of actual fights and battle presence? Nothing had (or has currently) a higher risk than a zerk thief. Well, maybe zerk staff ele.

The simple answer is: -> Condi can go High DMG & High Sustain which zerker can’t. He can only go Full DMG or Full Sustain (maybe Power Hybrid but that is more gimmicky).

Then also the mechanic behind condi is really easy to play and thats also a problem. For me condi is also unfun to play/against and yeah it really sucks.

Solution could be that condi is % affected be toughness or some sets like dire needs some rework.

In WvWvW Condi is cancer as hell also due buffood.

Grebcol.5984:

The simple answer is: -> Condi can go High DMG & High Sustain which zerker can’t. He can only go Full DMG or Full Sustain (maybe Power Hybrid but that is more gimmicky).

Then also the mechanic behind condi is really easy to play and thats also a problem. For me condi is also unfun to play/against and yeah it really sucks.

Solution could be that condi is % affected be toughness or some sets like dire needs some rework.

In WvWvW Condi is cancer as hell also due buffood.

What they should do is:

What Toughness is to Armor vs. Power.
Vitality needs to be “Armor” vs. Condition Damage.

And before anyone says, “Well if you have a high health pool, you don’t take as much condition damage”. No, all having a high health pool has vs. condition damage, is giving you slightly more freedom as to when you use your cleanse(s) and heal(s).

So what ever equation is used when calculating toughness vs. damage taken, needs to be applied to vitality vs. condi-damage taken.

zinkz.7045:

ThunderPanda.1872:

zinkz.7045:

mulzi.8273:

When zerk was meta, you could at least still kill them. It was a high risk, high reward meta. If you didnt have skill, you’d die quick.

Not really, the zerk builds that actually got played 95% of the time in this game (both PvP & WvW) were not high risk at all, because they either had a silly level of engage/disengage or were actually relatively tanky for being able to put obscene amounts of damage, the things that actually had some meaningful level of risk for example zerk static discharge engy were barely played.

Give me all 95% of this zerk builds examples? Tyvm. Don’t make bold claims when you can’t back it up.

What? Are you new from PvE? Do you really need it explained to you why roaming on say a zerk thief wasn’t really high risk?

You’re funny. Maybe the only WvW you ever played is sit in tower as a theif.

Zerk thieves are high risk as hell. I don’t see how they can take much damage.

reddie.5861:

babazhook.6805:

reddie.5861:

Taobella.6597:

weakness con thief is confusion mesmer or burn guard. <- both in the meta so the build is fine.

how? mesmer steal skill is giving thief immunity and enough time to smash mesmer
i dont think a mesmer has upper hand over a thief they are prolly equal in a 1v1 but for sure not a thief counter neither is a guard cus the way i played condi thief i didnt do anything beside spamming evades and use 1 / 2 poison fields so screw the guard i would not even be near him while he is having all poison stacks up and kitten easy to re apply em..

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vZAQJAVVn8lClOhFNBGOB8PhFYCz7LsoGRa/pAQBYOEeCThA-T5QHgAAXBgw9HEeEAAA there that build double short bow with some exotic gear from AH was cheap crap but basically hitting 4 from short bow + spider venom would daze some1 + using dodges near him would trigger a combo from the field which is more poisons and possibly bleeds + tornaments on evades + on interupts which ull get from poison stacks/steal.

the build is broken and thats coming from a thief..

tho im a condi hater so maybe thats why i call it broken i just tried it and it was to easy to apply tons and tons of condi’s in short time while condi dmg was insane.
top of that i was pretty much immune applying condi’s cus of my evade spam in poison fields and then port out with shadow step watching u bleed out if not port back and repeat

The condition immunity on a steal and consume plasma is lall of 2.5 seconds on a 20 plus second cooldown. That is hardly going to save the thief. It a stopgap to use when cleanses gone. I find it odd someone can claim this gives “immunity from conditions” then says conditions OP, then ignores the fact there classes such as the warrior that can string together 10 times the Immunity from resistance but this not a counter to conditions. What sort of reasoning is this.?

As to the SB CG all of those stacks come only if the enemy STANDS in the Circle and does nothing for the duration. There is two stacks of poison applied per second. 1 second is plenty to get out of a field just as it is to get out of any other field cast. When I am caught in a SB field I move OUT just as I do with any other field that is applying conditions. The 1 per 4 second potential interrupt does not impede movement. It is a daze not a stun.

This sounds very much like the people claiming Mortars OP because of all the fire stacks applied if someone just stood in the field.

To your whirl finishers inside that field. Again they are easily negated by the person moving out of the field. You are not playing against NPCS and Golems. If the person at the other end just stands there he deserves to get stacks of poison just as would happen damage wise if I stood there as a warrior used Hundred blades on me.

The range of the poison bolts from a whirl finisher is all of 240 units. Arc Divider has a longer range. Claiming a skill OP then premising it upon an enemy player being dumb as a rock demonstrates nothing to show the skill op.

then gw2 according to you is full of dumb players, i have done my kitten inside blobs and on solo players u can cleanse etc all u want but i never give a full blow of all condi at once when i did try this crap above..

also many people (including me) will just panic button smash when i pop out of hide smashing condi on you which do hurt.

getting one below 50% for a immobillize isnt insane hard also trust me this build that i dropped there is kitten easy to play and will get you bags / kills so easy.
condi just needs to be upped in dmg and toned down in way how easy its to reapply it (for all classes) cus u can nag all you want but condi’s fly out so easy and stacking them up is also so kitten easy.

Please do not make a statement and then attribute it to me. I said people who stand inside poison fields and allow a thief to whirl through those poison fields and apply bleeds and more poison are as dumb as a rock.

You pulled a number of 95 percent out of your backside then claimed I gave that number. If 95 percent of the people YOU meet just stand in the field and do nothing as you do your whirls and dodges then that might explain why you think the build is OP. Play against more competent opponents.

As to panic strike, it does not differentiate between a person suffering health loss from conditions and one suffering from raw power attacks. I assure you if a panic strike kicks in after my first Unload from P/p that if the enemy has no way of breaking the IMMOB and just eats the next unload he is going to take a whole lot of POWER damage.

Famine.7915:

People still have trouble with condi? K.

Yep, he gets it.