Condi damage or application should proc a reveal. No class should be able to continually damage a player without proc’ing a reveal. It is a ridiculously stupid mechanic and how condi gets a pass is beyond me.
Mesmers do it, thieves do it, even Ranger pets do it…
Signed, begging for this change since release.
I agree with this, but only condi damage. Something like cripple or slow shouldn’t reveal you.
No. THat would basically destroy all stealth, period, across all game modes. We may as well not have it then.
No. THat would basically destroy all stealth, period, across all game modes. We may as well not have it then.
I don’t see it as a bad idea tbh… Stealth in this game isn’t healthy for pvp anyway.
No. THat would basically destroy all stealth, period, across all game modes. We may as well not have it then.
I don’t see it as a bad idea tbh… Stealth in this game isn’t healthy for pvp anyway.
That would require remaking Thief from the ground up, something I don’t think Anet is willing to or will do.
No. THat would basically destroy all stealth, period, across all game modes. We may as well not have it then.
How is this any different than doing direct damage from stealth? IMO no player should be able to hit another player with damage without being revealed. It makes zero sense to me that players can basically proxy damage other players and remain hidden.
No. THat would basically destroy all stealth, period, across all game modes. We may as well not have it then.
I don’t see it as a bad idea tbh… Stealth in this game isn’t healthy for pvp anyway.
Then the thief needs more teleports and gap closers spread around the weapon sets and utilities but that would probably make people on this forum cry even more since you actually wouldn’t be able to hit anyone mid blink whereas you can damage people while they’re stealth. Or just take out initiative and give thieves cooldowns with more vitality and load them up with a kitten ton of boons and nukes and people can keep crying until we’re playing turn based Rock’em Sock’em Robots.
No. THat would basically destroy all stealth, period, across all game modes. We may as well not have it then.
How is this any different than doing direct damage from stealth? IMO no player should be able to hit another player with damage without being revealed. It makes zero sense to me that players can basically proxy damage other players and remain hidden.
The only way you’re getting ticks from conditions from somebody in stealth is if they were already applied before the person entered stealth, or from something that doesn’t cause direct damage that you stepped in. Doesn’t make much sense that a person bleeding would cause somebody to go out of stealth if they were already bleeding before said person went in stealth.
The only way you’re getting ticks from conditions from somebody in stealth is if they were already applied before the person entered stealth, or from something that doesn’t cause direct damage that you stepped in. Doesn’t make much sense that a person bleeding would cause somebody to go out of stealth if they were already bleeding before said person went in stealth.
There are skills that don’t deal direct damage but cause conditions. Doesn’t make sense that I can drop a caltrop at someone’s feet and not come out of stealth doing so. That’s what he is trying to point.
If conditions reveal at damage, that mean I cannot just keep putting needle trap or caltrops without ever comming out of stealth.
No. THat would basically destroy all stealth, period, across all game modes. We may as well not have it then.
How is this any different than doing direct damage from stealth? IMO no player should be able to hit another player with damage without being revealed. It makes zero sense to me that players can basically proxy damage other players and remain hidden.
uhm
because cleanse exists
how is this thread even a thing
The only way you’re getting ticks from conditions from somebody in stealth is if they were already applied before the person entered stealth, or from something that doesn’t cause direct damage that you stepped in. Doesn’t make much sense that a person bleeding would cause somebody to go out of stealth if they were already bleeding before said person went in stealth.
There are skills that don’t deal direct damage but cause conditions. Doesn’t make sense that I can drop a caltrop at someone’s feet and not come out of stealth doing so. That’s what he is trying to point.
If conditions reveal at damage, that mean I cannot just keep putting needle trap or caltrops without ever comming out of stealth.
Damage field. You’re stepping in one. That’s what caltrops is, a damage field.
Reveal does confuse me. For example, if I heartseeker into a smoke field and hit someone, that doesn’t reveal me.
The only way you’re getting ticks from conditions from somebody in stealth is if they were already applied before the person entered stealth, or from something that doesn’t cause direct damage that you stepped in. Doesn’t make much sense that a person bleeding would cause somebody to go out of stealth if they were already bleeding before said person went in stealth.
Traps, Caltrops, runes, sigils, clones, pets, on and on. The Perma Stealth Trapper Thief build can torch a player with a ridiculous amount of condi. Now that Plex has changed to an on heal, that build is now effective. It can drop 8 stacks of confusion, dozen stacks of bleed, poison and torment on a player in a couple seconds without them ever seeing the thief.
More to the point it can all be applied to a motionless player. Condi Stealth Mesmers aren’t much better either. Passive damage application is bad enough but when it prevents counter play from most classes it is just a broke mechanic.
The only way you’re getting ticks from conditions from somebody in stealth is if they were already applied before the person entered stealth, or from something that doesn’t cause direct damage that you stepped in. Doesn’t make much sense that a person bleeding would cause somebody to go out of stealth if they were already bleeding before said person went in stealth.
Traps, Caltrops, runes, sigils, clones, pets, on and on. The Perma Stealth Trapper Thief build can torch a player with a ridiculous amount of condi. Now that Plex has changed to an on heal, that build is now effective. It can drop 8 stacks of confusion, dozen stacks of bleed, poison and torment on a player in a couple seconds without them ever seeing the thief.
More to the point it can all be applied to a motionless player. Condi Stealth Mesmers aren’t much better either. Passive damage application is bad enough but when it prevents counter play from most classes it is just a broke mechanic.
uhm
because cleanse existshow is this thread even a thing
I guess condi isn’t unbalanced in small scale. I also guess it is completely fair that entire sets of builds can basically out condi a players cleanses and hardly be seen or not seen at all.
Why should a player be able to damage another player with nearly no options for counter play?
Reveal does confuse me. For example, if I heartseeker into a smoke field and hit someone, that doesn’t reveal me.
It’s because it only apply the stealth once the heartseeker animation is finished. Bounce on smoke field also have the same effect: you see the thief rolling then vanishing once the roll animation is over. Game mechanics problem I’d say.
It’s because it only apply the stealth once the heartseeker animation is finished. Bounce on smoke field also have the same effect: you see the thief rolling then vanishing once the roll animation is over. Game mechanics problem I’d say.
It is an order of events. The damage is applied before the field effect is applied. It isn’t a problem just the order the events are applied.
The upside to this is that the thief is actually vulnerable until the end of the skill. This allows for easy interrupts. I cannot tell you how many thieves I kill by interrupt when they are sitting in their smoke field waiting for a “free” hit when I close.
No. THat would basically destroy all stealth, period, across all game modes.
We may as well not have it then.
We need a poll.
I would vote for that.
Traps, Caltrops, runes, sigils, clones, pets, on and on. The Perma Stealth Trapper Thief build can torch a player with a ridiculous amount of condi. Now that Plex has changed to an on heal, that build is now effective. It can drop 8 stacks of confusion, dozen stacks of bleed, poison and torment on a player in a couple seconds without them ever seeing the thief.
More to the point it can all be applied to a motionless player. Condi Stealth Mesmers aren’t much better either. Passive damage application is bad enough but when it prevents counter play from most classes it is just a broke mechanic.
I guess condi isn’t unbalanced in small scale. I also guess it is completely fair that entire sets of builds can basically out condi a players cleanses and hardly be seen or not seen at all.
Why should a player be able to damage another player with nearly no options for counter play?
Umm, perplexity is 5 stacks, not eight.
Also, it can ONLY be applied to a motionless player. Caltrops on dodge is 90 radius, pulses three times, each pulse is one stack of bleed. You literally have to be afk to get hit with the maximum stacks of bleed here.
If you literally just cleanse twice and dodge once this build does basically no damage.
Umm, perplexity is 5 stacks, not eight.
Also, it can ONLY be applied to a motionless player. Caltrops on dodge is 90 radius, pulses three times, each pulse is one stack of bleed. You literally have to be afk to get hit with the maximum stacks of bleed here.
If you literally just cleanse twice and dodge once this build does basically no damage.
I belive you forgot you have skill called caltrops with a much bigger radius than the dodge caltrops. Also you can drop the dodge caltrops on top of a player you got immobilized by needle trap (which also don’t reveal, mind you) for maximum effect with no problem.
Two Needle Traps, one from trait and one from utility, plus caltrops activated skill is 8 stacks of bleed. Maybe you get up to 10 if you stand still…but that is again only one condition type so a single cleanse will probably get rid of all of that.
On what you suggested: you would also get 4 stacks of poison (two from steal, and two from the double needle trap). Now, since you are using caltrops, needle trap, and your heal, you have one more slot available.
I’m not sure, honestly, if poison utilities are applied on traps. I don’t think so, because my poisons don’t apply on the caltrops on dodge, so I think you need to do physical damage for them to work.
So without being revealed, assuming strong stealth stacking, is 5 stacks confusion, 8-10 stacks of bleed, and 4 stacks of poison. Assuming the person carries two cleanses that means they are left with one of the three conditions on them. The bleeds are short duration, so within 10 seconds most of them will be gone without a cleanse. The poison isn’t enough stacks to matter. The confusion won’t do much if you don’t use your skills for 8 seconds.
Now, if you see them because they aren’t perma stealth, then they can apply far more conditions and possibly kill you. Such is the nature of PvP.
Reveal on direct condi application would make them use that tanky dire/trailblazers gear instead of getting a chance to drop full condi burst on someone without even leaving stealth. Passive procs shouldn’t reveal though and neither should actual condi ticks. Just active application via skills.
Theres to much aoe/cleaves damage floating arround even if thief if not targeted it will take damage due game is to splashy and spam based on doing damage, as much i would like to see people out of stealth with damage, it would not work how the game is designed, thief is not the only with stealth, other classes are less mobile in stealth also.
All it was needed was AA 1 guy, and the 2nd (thief passing neaby) takes random cleave damge… ppuff out of stealth…
IF game was ment to be clever on skill usage that would be diferent.
(EDit) condi ticks and aoe spam capabilities need to be reduced also, i would bet we would see less lag and could use all skill on lartger fights -.-".
Conditions on gw1 worked perfectly, even on pvp people needed to know how to do it… much more skill was needed.
(edited by Aeolus.3615)
I am fine with this but it would have to only be on application, not tick. Also, only damaging conditions.
Stealth is always way too powerful. In every game. Ever.
It shouldn’t be a thing.
Stealth is always way too powerful. In every game. Ever.
It shouldn’t be a thing.
Sadly the devs dont share this and kept on adding stealth through the years.
i think it would be ok if applying conditions to an enemy reveals you
but if you then want to stealth again and the enemy has just 1 stack of bleeding that does 1 more tick while you are in stealthed and you would get revealed from that?
that would be nonsense
Stealth is always way too powerful. In every game. Ever.
It shouldn’t be a thing.
No, in most MMOs you can’t enter it in combat (outside of several skills with very long cooldowns) and you’re taken out of it the second you take damage or do damage. I don’t call that powerful in other games, since all you have to do is AoE the floor you’re standing on and those in stealth can’t get near.
The only way you’re getting ticks from conditions from somebody in stealth is if they were already applied before the person entered stealth, or from something that doesn’t cause direct damage that you stepped in. Doesn’t make much sense that a person bleeding would cause somebody to go out of stealth if they were already bleeding before said person went in stealth.
Traps, Caltrops, runes, sigils, clones, pets, on and on. The Perma Stealth Trapper Thief build can torch a player with a ridiculous amount of condi. Now that Plex has changed to an on heal, that build is now effective. It can drop 8 stacks of confusion, dozen stacks of bleed, poison and torment on a player in a couple seconds without them ever seeing the thief.
More to the point it can all be applied to a motionless player. Condi Stealth Mesmers aren’t much better either. Passive damage application is bad enough but when it prevents counter play from most classes it is just a broke mechanic.
uhm
because cleanse existshow is this thread even a thing
I guess condi isn’t unbalanced in small scale. I also guess it is completely fair that entire sets of builds can basically out condi a players cleanses and hardly be seen or not seen at all.
Why should a player be able to damage another player with nearly no options for counter play?
Thief does not torch people in Condies it is at most 3 damaging condies and 2 non damaging ones, all of which can be cleansed and cannot be reapplied as easily that other classes that can actually Condi bomb and keep up the Condi pressure…… But I guess that’s just common sense and most of those other builds have better ways of negating damage and cc than stealth with invulns, huge heals and a second health bar in some cases…
i think it would be ok if applying conditions to an enemy reveals you
but if you then want to stealth again and the enemy has just 1 stack of bleeding that does 1 more tick while you are in stealthed and you would get revealed from that?
that would be nonsense
This would break the skill caltrops and uncatchable. Thief drops caltrops . Thief then Stealths . Enemy runs into caltrops field to reveal thief. If I am fighting a stealth thief and see those little red circles from uncatchable, I am running into them. I will take the bleed in return for a reveal.
In essence you eliminate traps caltrops and uncatchable from stealth thief builds as they become akin to the old last refuge and get thieves killed.
If I was a thief wanting to use stealth I would never select those skills .
(edited by babazhook.6805)
I find it interesting that the 1 second ICD used between leaps in a smoke field to prevent stealth stacking via DP (which is the real issue here) would have done a better job preventing this if used here,. I
i think it would be ok if applying conditions to an enemy reveals you
but if you then want to stealth again and the enemy has just 1 stack of bleeding that does 1 more tick while you are in stealthed and you would get revealed from that?
that would be nonsenseThis would break the skill caltrops and uncatchable. Thief drops caltrops . Thief then Stealths . Enemy runs into caltrops field to reveal thief. If I am fighting a stealth thief and see those little red circles from uncatchable, I am running into them. I will take the bleed in return for a reveal.
In essence you eliminate traps caltrops and uncatchable from stealth thief builds as they become akin to the old last refuge and get thieves killed.
If I was a thief wanting to use stealth I would never select those skills .
Except that you are actively choosing to engage by placing down caltrops/traps. Uncatchable(trait) needs a rework period.
You should be forced to chose the relative safety of stealth, or the attack of opportunity provide from leaving stealth, not both at the same time as that leaves 0 room for counter-play outside of nuke at my feet and cleanse.
As hinted at earlier the problem is how stealth is implemented in the game. It’s silly and far too long lasting in most cases.
i think it would be ok if applying conditions to an enemy reveals you
but if you then want to stealth again and the enemy has just 1 stack of bleeding that does 1 more tick while you are in stealthed and you would get revealed from that?
that would be nonsenseThis would break the skill caltrops and uncatchable. Thief drops caltrops . Thief then Stealths . Enemy runs into caltrops field to reveal thief. If I am fighting a stealth thief and see those little red circles from uncatchable, I am running into them. I will take the bleed in return for a reveal.
In essence you eliminate traps caltrops and uncatchable from stealth thief builds as they become akin to the old last refuge and get thieves killed.
If I was a thief wanting to use stealth I would never select those skills .
Except that you are actively choosing to engage by placing down caltrops/traps. Uncatchable(trait) needs a rework period.
You should be forced to chose the relative safety of stealth, or the attack of opportunity provide from leaving stealth, not both at the same time as that leaves 0 room for counter-play outside of nuke at my feet and cleanse.
As hinted at earlier the problem is how stealth is implemented in the game. It’s silly and far too long lasting in most cases.
Same can be said about all the invulns being thrown around while still being able to damage players.
i think it would be ok if applying conditions to an enemy reveals you
but if you then want to stealth again and the enemy has just 1 stack of bleeding that does 1 more tick while you are in stealthed and you would get revealed from that?
that would be nonsenseThis would break the skill caltrops and uncatchable. Thief drops caltrops . Thief then Stealths . Enemy runs into caltrops field to reveal thief. If I am fighting a stealth thief and see those little red circles from uncatchable, I am running into them. I will take the bleed in return for a reveal.
In essence you eliminate traps caltrops and uncatchable from stealth thief builds as they become akin to the old last refuge and get thieves killed.
If I was a thief wanting to use stealth I would never select those skills .
Except that you are actively choosing to engage by placing down caltrops/traps. Uncatchable(trait) needs a rework period.
You should be forced to chose the relative safety of stealth, or the attack of opportunity provide from leaving stealth, not both at the same time as that leaves 0 room for counter-play outside of nuke at my feet and cleanse.
As hinted at earlier the problem is how stealth is implemented in the game. It’s silly and far too long lasting in most cases.
Same can be said about all the invulns being thrown around while still being able to damage players.
Nobody can be perma invulnrerable like a thief or mesmer can be perma stealthed. You comparission is silly.
i think it would be ok if applying conditions to an enemy reveals you
but if you then want to stealth again and the enemy has just 1 stack of bleeding that does 1 more tick while you are in stealthed and you would get revealed from that?
that would be nonsenseThis would break the skill caltrops and uncatchable. Thief drops caltrops . Thief then Stealths . Enemy runs into caltrops field to reveal thief. If I am fighting a stealth thief and see those little red circles from uncatchable, I am running into them. I will take the bleed in return for a reveal.
In essence you eliminate traps caltrops and uncatchable from stealth thief builds as they become akin to the old last refuge and get thieves killed.
If I was a thief wanting to use stealth I would never select those skills .
Except that you are actively choosing to engage by placing down caltrops/traps. Uncatchable(trait) needs a rework period.
You should be forced to chose the relative safety of stealth, or the attack of opportunity provide from leaving stealth, not both at the same time as that leaves 0 room for counter-play outside of nuke at my feet and cleanse.
As hinted at earlier the problem is how stealth is implemented in the game. It’s silly and far too long lasting in most cases.
Same can be said about all the invulns being thrown around while still being able to damage players.
Nobody can be perma invulnrerable like a thief or mesmer can be perma stealthed. You comparission is silly.
And perma stealth acquired by the thief has nothing to do with caltrops or or uncatchable. The solution is a poor one and ill thought out for a class so relaint on stealth to survive.
There one issue and only one really and that stacking stealth via leaps in a smoke field. it an issue with D/p and how stealth stacking works. There no issues at all with a d/d user of stealth as example even if he uses conditions.
Mesmer and engineer should never have been given stealth to the degree they have. Without an extreme cut back to other classes stealth sources addressing this as a thief only issue is short sighted.
For the runes in question , perplexity and balthazar (and any I might have overlooked with conditions applied with a heal) all that is needed is to add a small damage component like grenth has to the number 6 bonus.
There absolutely no reason to change the way caltrops and uncatchable works. The durations of all other classes stealth outside the thief should be cut.
Hunters shot 2s
The prestige 2s
decoy 2s
veil 2s
mass invis 3 s
Sneak Gyro duration 20 seconds stealth to 3 seconds on pulse
elixir s 3 seconds
All thief durations remain the same. Consider some means of lowering the amount of stealth that can be stacked on the HS d/p combo. That 1 second ICD on a sneak attack was ill placed. It would be better were it “On gaining stealth a i second ICD applies before it can be added again” or some such. I am not sure how SR affected there but sr can work still if its own cooldown lowered. I think this will cut down thief stealth enough without crippling other builds and specifically thief builds that need that extra pulse in stealth for a condition cleanse or to set up an attack.
(edited by babazhook.6805)
i think it would be ok if applying conditions to an enemy reveals you
but if you then want to stealth again and the enemy has just 1 stack of bleeding that does 1 more tick while you are in stealthed and you would get revealed from that?
that would be nonsenseThis would break the skill caltrops and uncatchable. Thief drops caltrops . Thief then Stealths . Enemy runs into caltrops field to reveal thief. If I am fighting a stealth thief and see those little red circles from uncatchable, I am running into them. I will take the bleed in return for a reveal.
In essence you eliminate traps caltrops and uncatchable from stealth thief builds as they become akin to the old last refuge and get thieves killed.
If I was a thief wanting to use stealth I would never select those skills .
Except that you are actively choosing to engage by placing down caltrops/traps. Uncatchable(trait) needs a rework period.
You should be forced to chose the relative safety of stealth, or the attack of opportunity provide from leaving stealth, not both at the same time as that leaves 0 room for counter-play outside of nuke at my feet and cleanse.
As hinted at earlier the problem is how stealth is implemented in the game. It’s silly and far too long lasting in most cases.
Same can be said about all the invulns being thrown around while still being able to damage players.
Nobody can be perma invulnrerable like a thief or mesmer can be perma stealthed. You comparission is silly.
The comparison is you should have to choose the relative safety of invulns or damage, while in stealth you still take all forms of damage it can be removed vey easily and takes a lot of resources to set up and maintain, on top of the thief only being able to apply 5-6 condies tops 3 of which are the only damaging ones..
Umm, perplexity is 5 stacks, not eight.
Also, it can ONLY be applied to a motionless player. Caltrops on dodge is 90 radius, pulses three times, each pulse is one stack of bleed. You literally have to be afk to get hit with the maximum stacks of bleed here.
If you literally just cleanse twice and dodge once this build does basically no damage.
The steal applies 5 confusion and heal applies 3 all without any reveal. Both of these can be used on a moving player. Needle trap does 3 bleed and poison, they are also immobilized allowing for the utility Caltrops to tack on a minimum of 3 more bleed and if they are in the full immobilize it can easily be 12+ stacks. Then comes the dodge caltrops. Next we add on weapon swap for another 3 bleeds.
I am probably missing some of the rotation here but basically they can apply 20+ stacks of condi without procing a reveal in a couple seconds. The confusion is particularly problematic as removing 8 stacks can deal a considerable amount of damage. Since none of it procs an on hit, passive removals do squat.
Oh and they can rotate that every 24s. If a player doesn’t run, have an immense amount of condi clear or running engi/scrapper build with the right traits/skills their goose is cooked. This also assumes a class can purge them all at once.. many classes simply do not have the capability some have very little without being able to hit something.
(edited by Straegen.2938)
I find it interesting that the 1 second ICD used between leaps in a smoke field to prevent stealth stacking via DP (which is the real issue here) would have done a better job preventing this if used here,. I
The ICD doesn’t effect Heart Seeker only the AA stealth attack (Backstab, Hook Strike, etc). D/P is just as stealthy as ever. Even if it did, they can easily switch to Bound which is actually a cheaper initiative stealth.
I find it interesting that the 1 second ICD used between leaps in a smoke field to prevent stealth stacking via DP (which is the real issue here) would have done a better job preventing this if used here,. I
The ICD doesn’t effect Heart Seeker only the AA stealth attack (Backstab, Hook Strike, etc). D/P is just as stealthy as ever. Even if it did, they can easily switch to Bound which is actually a cheaper initiative stealth.
Yes I know it does not affect heartseeker. I am suggesting that said ICD would have worked better when stacking stealth via n HS BP combo and done more for game balance than the solution they gave when applying it to stealth attacks.
Bounding dodger can in fact stack stealth but not to the same degree and it easier to counter Iit does aoe damage so will reveal if someone close, but I suggested that the ICD work on all skills that stack stealth. Ie if you are stealrhed and want to add more stealth there that 1 second ICD.
Again this can not and should not happen without trimming other classes stealth options and durations.
No. THat would basically destroy all stealth, period, across all game modes. We may as well not have it then.
Trapper Condi Thief detected. Get this crap out of here.
i think it would be ok if applying conditions to an enemy reveals you
but if you then want to stealth again and the enemy has just 1 stack of bleeding that does 1 more tick while you are in stealthed and you would get revealed from that?
that would be nonsenseThis would break the skill caltrops and uncatchable. Thief drops caltrops . Thief then Stealths . Enemy runs into caltrops field to reveal thief. If I am fighting a stealth thief and see those little red circles from uncatchable, I am running into them. I will take the bleed in return for a reveal.
In essence you eliminate traps caltrops and uncatchable from stealth thief builds as they become akin to the old last refuge and get thieves killed.
If I was a thief wanting to use stealth I would never select those skills .
Except that you are actively choosing to engage by placing down caltrops/traps. Uncatchable(trait) needs a rework period.
You should be forced to chose the relative safety of stealth, or the attack of opportunity provide from leaving stealth, not both at the same time as that leaves 0 room for counter-play outside of nuke at my feet and cleanse.
As hinted at earlier the problem is how stealth is implemented in the game. It’s silly and far too long lasting in most cases.
Same can be said about all the invulns being thrown around while still being able to damage players.
Nobody can be perma invulnrerable like a thief or mesmer can be perma stealthed. You comparission is silly.
And perma stealth acquired by the thief has nothing to do with caltrops or or uncatchable. The solution is a poor one and ill thought out for a class so relaint on stealth to survive.
Ah, so a thief in perma stealth killing me with traps and condi through steal who doesnt reveal ONE TIME isnt a problem? The stomp in stealth, I havent even seen the thief ONE TIME. Has it nothing to do with it? Seriously?
i think it would be ok if applying conditions to an enemy reveals you
but if you then want to stealth again and the enemy has just 1 stack of bleeding that does 1 more tick while you are in stealthed and you would get revealed from that?
that would be nonsenseThis would break the skill caltrops and uncatchable. Thief drops caltrops . Thief then Stealths . Enemy runs into caltrops field to reveal thief. If I am fighting a stealth thief and see those little red circles from uncatchable, I am running into them. I will take the bleed in return for a reveal.
In essence you eliminate traps caltrops and uncatchable from stealth thief builds as they become akin to the old last refuge and get thieves killed.
If I was a thief wanting to use stealth I would never select those skills .
Except that you are actively choosing to engage by placing down caltrops/traps. Uncatchable(trait) needs a rework period.
You should be forced to chose the relative safety of stealth, or the attack of opportunity provide from leaving stealth, not both at the same time as that leaves 0 room for counter-play outside of nuke at my feet and cleanse.
As hinted at earlier the problem is how stealth is implemented in the game. It’s silly and far too long lasting in most cases.
Same can be said about all the invulns being thrown around while still being able to damage players.
Nobody can be perma invulnrerable like a thief or mesmer can be perma stealthed. You comparission is silly.
And perma stealth acquired by the thief has nothing to do with caltrops or or uncatchable. The solution is a poor one and ill thought out for a class so relaint on stealth to survive.
Ah, so a thief in perma stealth killing me with traps and condi through steal who doesnt reveal ONE TIME isnt a problem? The stomp in stealth, I havent even seen the thief ONE TIME. Has it nothing to do with it? Seriously?
It’s nearly as bad as the mesmer who portals away at the start of a stomp and comes back at the end of it, so you can’t interrupt him/her.
It’s nearly as bad as the mesmer who portals away at the start of a stomp and comes back at the end of it, so you can’t interrupt him/her.
Portal stomp is used after they down you at least. The perma-stealth never revealed thief kills you without any possible counter or way to deal with them at all. It’s an “I win and you can’t do anything” button. And lol at cleanse. They will re-apply conditions faster than you can remove them, unless you are an Ele maybe. And they will still be in stealth all the time. It’s pathetic design.
It’s nearly as bad as the mesmer who portals away at the start of a stomp and comes back at the end of it, so you can’t interrupt him/her.
Portal stomp is used after they down you at least. The perma-stealth never revealed thief kills you without any possible counter or way to deal with them at all. It’s an “I win and you can’t do anything” button. And lol at cleanse. They will re-apply conditions faster than you can remove them, unless you are an Ele maybe. And they will still be in stealth all the time. It’s pathetic design.
That’s a huge understatement, again the majority of there conditions are on relying that you stand in their Aoe fields and tied to hefty CDs 20 sec for steal and 25 secs plus on traps.
i think it would be ok if applying conditions to an enemy reveals you
but if you then want to stealth again and the enemy has just 1 stack of bleeding that does 1 more tick while you are in stealthed and you would get revealed from that?
that would be nonsenseThis would break the skill caltrops and uncatchable. Thief drops caltrops . Thief then Stealths . Enemy runs into caltrops field to reveal thief. If I am fighting a stealth thief and see those little red circles from uncatchable, I am running into them. I will take the bleed in return for a reveal.
In essence you eliminate traps caltrops and uncatchable from stealth thief builds as they become akin to the old last refuge and get thieves killed.
If I was a thief wanting to use stealth I would never select those skills .
Except that you are actively choosing to engage by placing down caltrops/traps. Uncatchable(trait) needs a rework period.
You should be forced to chose the relative safety of stealth, or the attack of opportunity provide from leaving stealth, not both at the same time as that leaves 0 room for counter-play outside of nuke at my feet and cleanse.
As hinted at earlier the problem is how stealth is implemented in the game. It’s silly and far too long lasting in most cases.
Same can be said about all the invulns being thrown around while still being able to damage players.
Nobody can be perma invulnrerable like a thief or mesmer can be perma stealthed. You comparission is silly.
The comparison is you should have to choose the relative safety of invulns or damage, while in stealth you still take all forms of damage it can be removed vey easily and takes a lot of resources to set up and maintain, on top of the thief only being able to apply 5-6 condies tops 3 of which are the only damaging ones..
The sad thing is, i agree with the comparison. I don’t believe you should be able to cast while using panic buttons, it defeats the purpose of making a trade off which should be what all skill interaction/cast are about.
If you choose to attack from stealth it should break, if you choose to attack after using an invulnerability skill it should end early. Just my 2cents about balance. I know it won’t happen as it would confuse most players but that’s the direction i’d like to see gw2 take especially if it wants its PvP elements to be rewarding skilled play.
i think it would be ok if applying conditions to an enemy reveals you
but if you then want to stealth again and the enemy has just 1 stack of bleeding that does 1 more tick while you are in stealthed and you would get revealed from that?
that would be nonsenseThis would break the skill caltrops and uncatchable. Thief drops caltrops . Thief then Stealths . Enemy runs into caltrops field to reveal thief. If I am fighting a stealth thief and see those little red circles from uncatchable, I am running into them. I will take the bleed in return for a reveal.
In essence you eliminate traps caltrops and uncatchable from stealth thief builds as they become akin to the old last refuge and get thieves killed.
If I was a thief wanting to use stealth I would never select those skills .
Except that you are actively choosing to engage by placing down caltrops/traps. Uncatchable(trait) needs a rework period.
You should be forced to chose the relative safety of stealth, or the attack of opportunity provide from leaving stealth, not both at the same time as that leaves 0 room for counter-play outside of nuke at my feet and cleanse.
As hinted at earlier the problem is how stealth is implemented in the game. It’s silly and far too long lasting in most cases.
Same can be said about all the invulns being thrown around while still being able to damage players.
Nobody can be perma invulnrerable like a thief or mesmer can be perma stealthed. You comparission is silly.
And perma stealth acquired by the thief has nothing to do with caltrops or or uncatchable. The solution is a poor one and ill thought out for a class so relaint on stealth to survive.
Ah, so a thief in perma stealth killing me with traps and condi through steal who doesnt reveal ONE TIME isnt a problem? The stomp in stealth, I havent even seen the thief ONE TIME. Has it nothing to do with it? Seriously?
The issue is NOT THE CONDITIONS. The issue is the stacking of stealth which I addressed that being to limit stealth stacking. I can have a condition build with d/d and this this not an issue because d/d can not stack stealth.
Lower stealth duration across the board on all classes> Limit stealth stacking by adding an ICD between stealth applications for a person already in stealth. Remove the ICD on stealth attacks. Add a small damage component to the Runes Perplexity and Balthazar and tormenting. Issue solved and traps can still be used by persons that use stealth. They will just find it impossible to maintain permanent stealth.
(edited by babazhook.6805)
No. THat would basically destroy all stealth, period, across all game modes. We may as well not have it then.
Trapper Condi Thief detected. Get this crap out of here.
Who the hell runs traps on a thief? Until they’re brought up to Ranger (or dare I say, Dragonhunter) trap level, they’re useless outside of trolling people alongside D/P. Speaking of which, if you’re going to stay in stealth so long you pretty much have to run D/P, which has always been the root of where the OP nature of thief stealth has been.
This is due to Black Powder → Heartseeker combo, which doesn’t require a target or for you to even hit somebody to activate. It’s a combo that has been here since the beginning that the devs refuse to nerf, knowing full well it’ll show how weak Thief as a whole actually is. And we can’t have the “nerf the thief every patch” meta broken, can we? :p
i think it would be ok if applying conditions to an enemy reveals you
but if you then want to stealth again and the enemy has just 1 stack of bleeding that does 1 more tick while you are in stealthed and you would get revealed from that?
that would be nonsenseThis would break the skill caltrops and uncatchable. Thief drops caltrops . Thief then Stealths . Enemy runs into caltrops field to reveal thief. If I am fighting a stealth thief and see those little red circles from uncatchable, I am running into them. I will take the bleed in return for a reveal.
In essence you eliminate traps caltrops and uncatchable from stealth thief builds as they become akin to the old last refuge and get thieves killed.
If I was a thief wanting to use stealth I would never select those skills .
Except that you are actively choosing to engage by placing down caltrops/traps. Uncatchable(trait) needs a rework period.
You should be forced to chose the relative safety of stealth, or the attack of opportunity provide from leaving stealth, not both at the same time as that leaves 0 room for counter-play outside of nuke at my feet and cleanse.
As hinted at earlier the problem is how stealth is implemented in the game. It’s silly and far too long lasting in most cases.
Same can be said about all the invulns being thrown around while still being able to damage players.
Nobody can be perma invulnrerable like a thief or mesmer can be perma stealthed. You comparission is silly.
And perma stealth acquired by the thief has nothing to do with caltrops or or uncatchable. The solution is a poor one and ill thought out for a class so relaint on stealth to survive.
Ah, so a thief in perma stealth killing me with traps and condi through steal who doesnt reveal ONE TIME isnt a problem? The stomp in stealth, I havent even seen the thief ONE TIME. Has it nothing to do with it? Seriously?
It’s nearly as bad as the mesmer who portals away at the start of a stomp and comes back at the end of it, so you can’t interrupt him/her.
Have you ever heard of Shadowstep stomp? It’s pretty much the same as portal stomp, except that shadowstep cd is lower.
i think it would be ok if applying conditions to an enemy reveals you
but if you then want to stealth again and the enemy has just 1 stack of bleeding that does 1 more tick while you are in stealthed and you would get revealed from that?
that would be nonsenseThis would break the skill caltrops and uncatchable. Thief drops caltrops . Thief then Stealths . Enemy runs into caltrops field to reveal thief. If I am fighting a stealth thief and see those little red circles from uncatchable, I am running into them. I will take the bleed in return for a reveal.
In essence you eliminate traps caltrops and uncatchable from stealth thief builds as they become akin to the old last refuge and get thieves killed.
If I was a thief wanting to use stealth I would never select those skills .
Except that you are actively choosing to engage by placing down caltrops/traps. Uncatchable(trait) needs a rework period.
You should be forced to chose the relative safety of stealth, or the attack of opportunity provide from leaving stealth, not both at the same time as that leaves 0 room for counter-play outside of nuke at my feet and cleanse.
As hinted at earlier the problem is how stealth is implemented in the game. It’s silly and far too long lasting in most cases.
Same can be said about all the invulns being thrown around while still being able to damage players.
Nobody can be perma invulnrerable like a thief or mesmer can be perma stealthed. You comparission is silly.
The comparison is you should have to choose the relative safety of invulns or damage, while in stealth you still take all forms of damage it can be removed vey easily and takes a lot of resources to set up and maintain, on top of the thief only being able to apply 5-6 condies tops 3 of which are the only damaging ones..
The sad thing is, i agree with the comparison. I don’t believe you should be able to cast while using panic buttons, it defeats the purpose of making a trade off which should be what all skill interaction/cast are about.
If you choose to attack from stealth it should break, if you choose to attack after using an invulnerability skill it should end early. Just my 2cents about balance. I know it won’t happen as it would confuse most players but that’s the direction i’d like to see gw2 take especially if it wants its PvP elements to be rewarding skilled play.
Elixir S already block all actions while you are in the invulnerable form. This could be extended to other invulnerabilities.
I reiterate the original point… why should any class be able to deliberately damage another player and remain in stealth? What the kitten purpose does it serve outside of troll BS?
It makes no sense on any level that players can leverage stealth and effectively let minions, traps, etc grind down an opponent while basically only one class has an effective counter.
I reiterate the original point… why should any class be able to deliberately damage another player and remain in stealth? What the kitten purpose does it serve outside of troll BS?
It makes no sense on any level that players can leverage stealth and effectively let minions, traps, etc grind down an opponent while basically only one class has an effective counter.
There is no Functional difference between having 4 seconds of invulnerability up as you step on my trap over being in stealth for 4 seconds as you step on my trap.
The game has minions. It has pets. It has Ilusions and clones it has traps. It has spirit weapons and added together they make up a big chunk of the utilities and variety offerred to us as players. In order to have those things they have to function in some manner and I see no reason why “none of them should work while a person is stealthed” should apply as a rule.
I see no logical reason why my setting a trap up at a portal 4 minutes before should suddenly reveal me as I am setting up a backstab 3000 units away. I see no logical reason why my dropping caltrops should prevent me from hiding for ten seconds or reveal me from the same just because a pet ran through them. They are spikes on a piece of wood dropped on the ground.
The same types of complaints have been made since I started here about power attacks from stealth with people claiming “There no counters I am dead in 2 seconds and never see the person that killed me until it too late”. I guarantee you more people die to such an attack from stealth than do to a Ghost thief using all of his ini to stay hid and dropping traps on a 24 second cooldown.
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