Guild Wars 2

I mean 2k confusions and 3k burns a tick these days seems normal?

And don’t give me the bullcrap it’s not balanced around WvW just go test it on a target and condi’s are far superior now in WvW, it won’t be long before the whole population runs condi builds.

12k Decapitate? 10k Backstab? 15k Coalescence of Ruin?

#Balance.

Than.

Not really. Conditions can potentially do more damage if not cleared, but the upfront damage of many power bursts is far higher. I whacked a Warrior with a 15K shatter this week. I killed an Ele with a single Vault doing 12K damage.

The only difference is condis bypass all defenses once they are applied while power attacks don’t.

Like it?

Get use to it and the silent treatment from the devs.

Simonoly.4352:

Not really. Conditions can potentially do more damage if not cleared, but the upfront damage of many power bursts is far higher. I whacked a Warrior with a 15K shatter this week. I killed an Ele with a single Vault doing 12K damage.

^

Watch out for condition Chronos. Otherwise, most things can’t stack conditions fast enough to be as much of a threat as a power build. Bring cleanses or don’t blame other people for something that you could have prevented. Can’t tell you how tired I am of the “I don’t want to bring cleanses but condition builds are OP” attitude.

SpellOfIniquity.1780:

Simonoly.4352:

Not really. Conditions can potentially do more damage if not cleared, but the upfront damage of many power bursts is far higher. I whacked a Warrior with a 15K shatter this week. I killed an Ele with a single Vault doing 12K damage.

^

Watch out for condition Chronos. Otherwise, most things can’t stack conditions fast enough to be as much of a threat as a power build. Bring cleanses or don’t blame other people for something that you could have prevented. Can’t tell you how tired I am of the “I don’t want to bring cleanses but condition builds are OP” attitude.

It’s actually more complicated. You bring cleanses, necros throw all the condis back on you. You use Resistance, the necros and mesmers boon strip it or corrupt it, throwing the conditions back on you. Necros are what make conditions too strong IMO, they can toss the conditions on you fast, and corrupt anything you try to counter it with. I think if anything, they may have to add a permanent buff to players whenever they enter WvW that cuts down the condition damage you take by a set %.

Mesmer mostly is my bain. Decent condi thief to a lesser extent. Depending on the situation, many times I just stealth up and find somewhere else to be.

Condi necros can be a pain too. Boon corrupt is a bit nasty if you don’t have stuff to los around. Most of them are terrible though. They treat shroud like an invuln and then freak out when it goes up in smoke.

I do think mes in particular is over the top but many of the other builds help keep us boon happy bunker builds under control.

Honestly. Aside from Chronomancers, I haven’t had any problem with condition builds. Sure, fighting a Dire Necro is a uphill battle, but necros can be kited to death.

SpellOfIniquity.1780:

Simonoly.4352:

Not really. Conditions can potentially do more damage if not cleared, but the upfront damage of many power bursts is far higher. I whacked a Warrior with a 15K shatter this week. I killed an Ele with a single Vault doing 12K damage.

^

Watch out for condition Chronos. Otherwise, most things can’t stack conditions fast enough to be as much of a threat as a power build. Bring cleanses or don’t blame other people for something that you could have prevented. Can’t tell you how tired I am of the “I don’t want to bring cleanses but condition builds are OP” attitude.

I’m with you. Some would definitely say I go overboard on condi clears, but you do much more damage when you’re not running from spawn. I play all classes, and can’t think of any I run that I feel I’m at a huge disadvantage when fighting full condi. When I die to condi players, it’s MY FAULT.

In small scale, condi dominates. Completely and utterly dominates. The reason is simple, power needs three stats to cut through toughness and defensive sustain while condi needs but one allowing many builds to go full bunker and grind other builds till dead.

My thief runs with 3300 armor and 19k HP and does about as much damage to a player as my power builds. A thief, with more armor than most heavies AND does solid DPS. It was unstoppable before the Plex nerf now it is just plain OP.

BlaqueFyre.5678:

The only difference is condis bypass all defenses once they are applied while power attacks don’t.

All defenses like resistance, -condi duration food, passive and active condi clears….

Jeknar.6184:

12k Decapitate? 10k Backstab? 15k Coalescence of Ruin?

#Balance.

All of which can be dodged, most condi application cannot be dodged because A- it’s AOE, B- Has no cast tell, C- Condi application skills can be spammed, D- Hitting the enemy gives you condi’s.

Jim Hunter.6821:

BlaqueFyre.5678:

The only difference is condis bypass all defenses once they are applied while power attacks don’t.

All defenses like resistance, -condi duration food, passive and active condi clears….

Only work while they are on cooldown and they have a HUGE cooldown where as condi’s can be applied and reapplied very easily. The biggest problem is the quick and continual application. there is only a a very small portion of people who can manage condis properly where as a large portion of people can dodge power builds and use damage mitigation easily.

GROMIT.7829:

Jim Hunter.6821:

BlaqueFyre.5678:

The only difference is condis bypass all defenses once they are applied while power attacks don’t.

All defenses like resistance, -condi duration food, passive and active condi clears….

Only work while they are on cooldown and they have a HUGE cooldown where as condi’s can be applied and reapplied very easily. The biggest problem is the quick and continual application. there is only a a very small portion of people who can manage condis properly where as a large portion of people can dodge power builds and use damage mitigation easily.

So you are saying it’s a lack of knowledge on their part? I completely agree. It really help to know when to dodge, when to cleanse, instead of just spamming your defences and face tanking their condi application.

GROMIT.7829:

Only work while they are on cooldown and they have a HUGE cooldown where as condi’s can be applied and reapplied very easily. The biggest problem is the quick and continual application. there is only a a very small portion of people who can manage condis properly where as a large portion of people can dodge power builds and use damage mitigation easily.

Food and passive traits is on huge cooldowns now? O.o

Most classes can power build and match condi builds. The problem is that you rarely face condi only enemy comps – those with condi and power are the bad ones as condi will suppress you while power kills you. Its rarely the other way around except in one case, chrono perplexity.

Yes conditions are so op. Let’s nerf conditions so all lame broken condi builds will be balanced and rest of condi builds totally useless.

Conditions are fundamentally broken since Anet introduced equipment with + Condi Damage and 2 defensive stats. Don’t get me started with condi and boon duration, made the whole game sooo kittened.

They learned their lesson and removed these stats from sPvP. They should do the same thing across the whole game.
It’s just not fun anymore to roam in WvW. More and more people are slowly starting to run Condi Bunker Chronos, Thiefs and Warriors. Especially Condi Mesmer are way too powerfull. Have fun cleansing 10 stacks confu and torment every 5 secs.

GROMIT.7829:

Jeknar.6184:

12k Decapitate? 10k Backstab? 15k Coalescence of Ruin?

#Balance.

All of which can be dodged, most condi application cannot be dodged because A- it’s AOE, B- Has no cast tell, C- Condi application skills can be spammed, D- Hitting the enemy gives you condi’s.

A – You can dodge AoE just as you can dodge any skill in the game.
B – Please name 3 skills without cast time that can deal as much damage as the 3 I mentioned.
C – And all stacks of a single condition can be cleared with a single cleanse.
D – Only a few runes do that with the only bad one being perplexity as far as I know.

They removed the cap on conditions and then buffed them crazy. It’s like a mad-scientist experiment gone wrong and we are the test subjects.

Xillllix.3485:

They removed the cap on conditions and then buffed them crazy. It’s like a mad-scientist experiment gone wrong and we are the test subjects.

I don’t think I’ve seen conditions go over the 25 stack cap outside pve except when a rev or guardian use the skill that pull all condi to themselves. Condition application isn’t THAT kittened.

Jeknar.6184:

Xillllix.3485:

They removed the cap on conditions and then buffed them crazy. It’s like a mad-scientist experiment gone wrong and we are the test subjects.

I don’t think I’ve seen conditions go over the 25 stack cap outside pve except when a rev or guardian use the skill that pull all condi to themselves. Condition application isn’t THAT kittened.

I’ve pulled it off with a ranger crit bleed build but it requires blowing multiple cooldowns and chain cc’ing to prevent cleanse…. or just playing against someone dumb enough to blow all their cleanse in the first few seconds of a fight.

Straegen.2938:

In small scale, condi dominates. Completely and utterly dominates. The reason is simple, power needs three stats to cut through toughness and defensive sustain while condi needs but one allowing many builds to go full bunker and grind other builds till dead.

My thief runs with 3300 armor and 19k HP and does about as much damage to a player as my power builds. A thief, with more armor than most heavies AND does solid DPS. It was unstoppable before the Plex nerf now it is just plain OP.

This

Toughness will negate direct damage/ power builds, but yeah, if your running without any then yes, running in to a power build will feel like your getting hit by a truck. Conditions will burst or chew your health away if you don’t have cleanses up or stacked up resistance. Stronger of the two depends on the situation and the build you are running vs builds others are running.

Jeknar.6184:

Xillllix.3485:

They removed the cap on conditions and then buffed them crazy. It’s like a mad-scientist experiment gone wrong and we are the test subjects.

I don’t think I’ve seen conditions go over the 25 stack cap outside pve except when a rev or guardian use the skill that pull all condi to themselves. Condition application isn’t THAT kittened.

I do this consistently on D/D condi cancer thief. I can pull around 20 stacks of confusion and torment pretty easily on a mesmer, too.

…Running double the health and close to double the armor, with much easier kits to play.

It’s really f***ed.

DeceiverX.8361:

Jeknar.6184:

Xillllix.3485:

They removed the cap on conditions and then buffed them crazy. It’s like a mad-scientist experiment gone wrong and we are the test subjects.

I don’t think I’ve seen conditions go over the 25 stack cap outside pve except when a rev or guardian use the skill that pull all condi to themselves. Condition application isn’t THAT kittened.

I do this consistently on D/D condi cancer thief. I can pull around 20 stacks of confusion and torment pretty easily on a mesmer, too.

…Running double the health and close to double the armor, with much easier kits to play.

It’s really f***ed.

Yeah I have a set of trailblazer with torment runes, dire trinkets etc and sitting at 80-100% torment and confusion duration. It’s a strong build and arguably my group would benefit more from me running condi chrono but…

…I just can’t stand playing it. So boring and all about spamming shatters and the skill floor is just so dam low. I’d rather keep sharp on a power build so when it finally gets in a place where it’s good I’ll be tearing everyone a new one.

There are still plenty of builds which are nearly invulnreable to condis, its amazing to me that people don’t use them. I can make one on most classes, the 2 I happen to run lately are Inspiration mes and kitless gyro / elixir scrapper.

But I also have done druid, berserker and DH along the same theme.

I think out of all the classes and builds I have tried, druid took the cake for cleansing both AOE (team based) and self, it was just right down silly vs condis, but it felt too neutered DPS wise for me and I don’t like the whole pet mechanics so I am not sticking with it. Ele was second but staff being a poor weapon for small scale / roaming kinda limits that.

I find it particularly funny that while playing my scrapper I can basically LOL all day long at condi reapers and necros (and anything condi really) while when I hop on my necro or switch my mes to condi I end up straight up completely owning scrappers and most other power builds most of the time.

This pretty much tells me that it comes down to the players and their choices in what to run. Incidentally, when I do run condi, I run mostly sinister, with some carrion and dire mix since I don’t like to go completely defenseless or completely neutered for DPS. There is a huge difference between being bunker condi, glass and in between, obviously the glass will down anyone much faster and obviously stealth have the advantage here because of the disengage.

Tongku.5326:

There are still plenty of builds which are nearly invulnreable to condis, its amazing to me that people don’t use them. I can make one on most classes, the 2 I happen to run lately are Inspiration mes and kitless gyro / elixir scrapper.

But I also have done druid, berserker and DH along the same theme.

I think out of all the classes and builds I have tried, druid took the cake for cleansing both AOE (team based) and self, it was just right down silly vs condis, but it felt too neutered DPS wise for me and I don’t like the whole pet mechanics so I am not sticking with it. Ele was second but staff being a poor weapon for small scale / roaming kinda limits that.

I find it particularly funny that while playing my scrapper I can basically LOL all day long at condi reapers and necros (and anything condi really) while when I hop on my necro or switch my mes to condi I end up straight up completely owning scrappers and most other power builds most of the time.

This pretty much tells me that it comes down to the players and their choices in what to run. Incidentally, when I do run condi, I run mostly sinister, with some carrion and dire mix since I don’t like to go completely defenseless or completely neutered for DPS. There is a huge difference between being bunker condi, glass and in between, obviously the glass will down anyone much faster and obviously stealth have the advantage here because of the disengage.

You’ll notice these threads rarely come from roamers. The people that make these complaints are zerglings that get wrecked when they are separated from the herd. In their zerg they have the safety of aoe cleanses and resistance being boon shared so the builds they are running are garbage in small scale fights.

Jim Hunter.6821:

In their zerg they have the safety of aoe cleanses and resistance being boon shared so the builds they are running are garbage in small scale fights.

I somewhat disagree with that part. Group oriented builds work nicely in any scale. Ofc, they are useless if you are by yourself, but a frontline aurashare tempest for exemple is going to be strong both in a, say 5v5 or a ZvZ.

But I get what you meant. Most of them don’t even run groups builds at all, just whatever garbage they use in pve and roll over with the blob pressing 1 pretending to be awesome.

Jeknar.6184:

Jim Hunter.6821:

In their zerg they have the safety of aoe cleanses and resistance being boon shared so the builds they are running are garbage in small scale fights.

I somewhat disagree with that part. Group oriented builds work nicely in any scale. Ofc, they are useless if you are by yourself, but a frontline aurashare tempest for exemple is going to be strong both in a, say 5v5 or a ZvZ.

Yeah those aren’t the type of people coming to the forums to make these complaints. Anyone that actually takes the time to tweak or comp their builds don’t cry about condi’s because they know how to counter them.

You say that, but then need to realize they’re massively overpowered on the mathematical level, and there’s a lot of profession bias.

They’re so easy to play as-is I pretty much don’t respect anyone playing condi, regardless of how good they are.

DeceiverX.8361:

You say that, but then need to realize they’re massively overpowered on the mathematical level, and there’s a lot of profession bias.

They’re so easy to play as-is I pretty much don’t respect anyone playing condi, regardless of how good they are.

Again your own bias showing.

It is easier to pull of a 12k unload on p/p or consecutive shadowstrikes off d/p than it is to load twenty bleed stacks off deathblossoms . It also a lot cheaper in INI.

Deatblossoms builds that stack twenty bleeds happen only against players that stand under it and eat the bleeds. This akin to standing there and eating an unload.

dB range is melee. it easy to move around and stay out of its range. It than dead meat if you immobilize it.

The reason you do not see this massively op everywhere is because it not massively op and easy to counter.

DeceiverX.8361:

You say that, but then need to realize they’re massively overpowered on the mathematical level, and there’s a lot of profession bias.

They’re so easy to play as-is I pretty much don’t respect anyone playing condi, regardless of how good they are.

please do show this mathematical level you speak of, you do realize that DPS in WVW falls under PVE ruleset and mechanics right ?

Incidentally, I can actually show you some actual mathematical tests / benchmarks for DPS that show quite the opposite. Power builds rule DPS on average across all game modes, PVE and WVW much more so then PVP, the difference in PVP mode becomes closer to being balanced due to better player skill. The higher rank you go there, the less condi builds you encounter, and its for really good reasons. I wish to see a 50/50 split in power vs condi in SPVP high rank metas then have that translated into WVW, which is currently not the case.

https://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/4v76gq/qt_updated_guides_and_dps_benchmarks_for_all/

And this is just one of many recently done that you can find via google.

Tongku.5326:

power does more dps in pve so it is superior in wvw

Higher DPS is largely true due to the damage multiplier traits which condi doesn’t get. In wvw/pvp however most people dont use those in favour of more defensive options. Also its dps on stationary targets while condi ticks on even if the target is blocking/evading. Just basing your argument on target golems and PvE build doesn’t hold any value. Heck if a d/wh ele actually did arround 30k dps on small targets then most players would die in about half a second. But then if the ele actually runs the build shown it is pretty realistic that he dies in half a sec.

Im not saying power > condi or vice versa. I think it entirely depends on the class and where you want to use it wvw.

Pride.1734:

Tongku.5326:

power does more dps in pve so it is superior in wvw

Higher DPS is largely true due to the damage multiplier traits which condi doesn’t get. In wvw/pvp however most people dont use those in favour of more defensive options. Also its dps on stationary targets while condi ticks on even if the target is blocking/evading. Just basing your argument on target golems and PvE build doesn’t hold any value. Heck if a d/wh ele actually did arround 30k dps on small targets then most players would die in about half a second. But then if the ele actually runs the build shown it is pretty realistic that he dies in half a sec.

Im not saying power > condi or vice versa. I think it entirely depends on the class and where you want to use it wvw.

Yeah this. Also, PvP lacks many build and food options + has much different stat scaling. WvW builds are usually monsters by comparison and heavy on the cheese.

I think a couple classes have some condi builds that are overturned but mostly because of other mechanics or direct issues with certain conditions. Mostly confusion, burn and immob. The latter because of how easy it is to get stuck.

If you dial condis down too much in WvW then you indirectly buff toughness.

You know what’s truly fun?
Fighting condi players with no cleanse and sending them back with a power necro. So many have no way to clean their own condis… so many.

Its no brainer that condi is superior. But i couldn’t give any other suggestion for it.

1. Dire > Soldier.
2. Power needs Precision+Ferocity while Condi needs Vit+Toughness? Oh my.

I’m a warrior with full asc dire set + perplexity, but i dont use it anymore because i realize only pu*** runs a broken condi.

But it would be boring if we all run power build. If you have dignity, dont use broken condi.

XerMeLL.6042:

Its no brainer that condi is superior. But i couldn’t give any other suggestion for it.

1. Dire > Soldier.
2. Power needs Precision+Ferocity while Condi needs Vit+Toughness? Oh my.

I’m a warrior with full asc dire set + perplexity, but i dont use it anymore because i realize only pu*** runs a broken condi.

But it would be boring if we all run power build. If you have dignity, dont use broken condi.

Why power build would need precision and ferocity? Full PvT warrior makes much more damage in wvw that condi because conditions last maybe 1 sec and usually everybody have resistance on whole time.

Soldiers is equal to dire. Both fare just as well against condition builds and power builds, even wearing soldiers , can still pump out more damage in a shorter period of time.

Power does not need all the ferocity and precision people claim it does. People WANT it because it results in bigger numbers. It is a choice people make and than those same people complain it forced on them. If your home stereo can pump out twice the volume of mine it does not mean you have to play it that loud or that it unfair you had to pay more for a stereo so that you can play it louder than I can because when you do cops knock on your door and ask that you turn it down.

You do not need crit rates of 60 percent. You do not need 220 percent on a crit. Now when you take those numbers it at the expense of survivability but it also true you will pound out way more damage then a condition build. A Condition build has a lower ceiling damage wise.

Just as an example. Thief can get 20 +10 percent to damage kicking in from DA to power attacks. They can get another 15 from lead attacks and another 710 from the daredevil line. Thats 62 percent more damge before a crit.

Throw on scholars for another 10 percent and a sigil of force for 5 percent. Hey if it night time why not Sigil of night for 10?

If in WvW eat seawood salad for another 10 percent. Yow now can get a theoretical boost of over 90 percent to damage without any precision or ferocity. Nothing like that exists for condition builds. Acknowledging this peak will not happen all the time even at 60 percent upfront boost that is plenty of damage before even factoring in the ability to take higher precision and ferocity for yet more damage. This before any gear is considered , soldiers or zerkers.

The sPvP thing is a non-starter since the WvW builds that “abuse” condi in small scale do not exist in that game mode as players do not have access to munchkin condi gear.

Junkpile.7439:

Why power build would need precision and ferocity? Full PvT warrior makes much more damage in wvw that condi because conditions last maybe 1 sec and usually everybody have resistance on whole time.

Ooph this is so wrong it hurts. Power has to cut through armor/toughness and defensive sustain. Condi is completely unaffected by player armor/toughness and ticks through sustain (except Resistance). There are also numerous abilities that apply condi through blocks.

A power build with no crit/ferocity is typically a limp build that has no prayer of beating a dire build in small scale.

babazhook.6805:

Soldiers is equal to dire.

Not even remotely.

BeepBoopBop.5403:

Because conditions were never meant to be a viable sole source of damage that explode people as fast as power builds?

I believe this is true (in the original design of the game). You could argue that gear sets like dire used to be conceptually reasonable because it took a long time to kill something with conditions and you needed the defensive stats to extend the fight. But now that we have condition bursts which deal equivalent damage to many power bursts, this is no longer the case.

With that in mind, the condition overhaul seems like a classic Anet half-measure. They needed to address more than just the conditions themselves in order to create a good system. They didn’t, and we ended up with horrible binary gameplay, where you either hard-counter your enemy or get hard-countered. There’s literally no fun in that – only frustration.

I firmly believe that the game would be far more enjoyable if they just straight up removed all damaging conditions.

Junkpile.7439:

Thing just is that roaming doesn’t really matter. Condi should get boost because it’s bad in real WvW.

Ouch. Roaming, havoc and small group are a big part of wvw too. Not every server can have blob wars on every map 24/7.

vana.5467:

I firmly believe that the game would be far more enjoyable if they just straight up removed all damaging conditions.

I know that’s just an opinion but it is so wrong it hurts. Do you realize how bunkerish and boring combat would become if players didn’t have to worry about conditions?
Warrior is a perfect example of how bad your idea is. Rousing resilience and cleansing ire currently compete for a spot, so does brawlers recovery and destruction of the empowered. Your idea would make 2 of those traits completely worthless and we’d have warriors that are already incredibly tanky running around with an extra 1000 toughness and 3-25ish% more damage.

And it’s not just warrior, every profession sacrifices defenses against direct damage, or additional power in order to be able to deal with conditions. Some sacrifice whole trait lines to do so.

What you propose would require a complete rework of everything in the game and would lead to incredibly boring bunker/sustain combat.

I find funny that you people are taking Junkpile’s bait…

vana.5467:

But now that we have condition bursts which deal equivalent damage to many power bursts, this is no longer the case.

I’m still waiting someone to name which condition skill can burst like Decapitate, Gunflame, Backstab, Mindwrack, Coalescence of Ruin, etc. Even with several stacks of burn, the strongest condition atm, I haven’t seen a 12k tick (maybe if I /sleep under a mortar like the people on this forum seen to do). But I’ve been hit with 12k by these skills.

Jeknar.6184:

vana.5467:

But now that we have condition bursts which deal equivalent damage to many power bursts, this is no longer the case.

I’m still waiting someone to name which condition skill can burst like Decapitate, Gunflame, Backstab, Mindwrack, Coalescence of Ruin, etc. Even with several stacks of burn, the strongest condition atm, I haven’t seen a 12k tick (maybe if I /sleep under a mortar like the people on this forum seen to do). But I’ve been hit with 12k by these skills.

How do you even get this dense?

Does a tick of 12k burning for one second really outshine 3 ticks of 4k burning for 3 seconds lol? So conditions are weak because you can’t get a tick as high as a backstab?!? Sounds like the typical condition roamer.

Tell you what, it’s fair this way because maybe a 12k backstab requires full glass builds, while a 12k over 3 seconds burning stack can be done while in Terminator armor. Btw we aren’t even talking about how much DPS is possible when several conditions are ticking lmfao.

Forum bug

BeepBoopBop.5403:

Does a tick of 12k burning for one second really outshine 3 ticks of 4k burning for 3 seconds lol? So conditions are weak because you can’t get a tick as high as a backstab?!? Sounds like the typical condition roamer.

Tell you what, it’s fair this way because maybe a 12k backstab requires full glass builds, while a 12k over 3 seconds burning stack can be done while in Terminator armor. Btw we aren’t even talking about how much DPS is possible when several conditions are ticking lmfao.

Yeah, but you need to put several stacks of these condi to make them tick THAT high, and they are likely to be cleared before you reach that point by any semi decent player that knows he can run condi clears to counter condis. Your response is a typical response of a zerker player who refuse to run condi clears because “i’ll lose muh deeps”.

I’ll tell you what. I run zerker mesmer and the only condi build that give me trouble is the condition chronomancer. This one is broken beyond repair, no doubt. But even dire/trailblazer necros fall short simply because instead of running domination line for dem high crits, I run inspiration for sustain and condi clears.

Jeknar.6184:

BeepBoopBop.5403:

Does a tick of 12k burning for one second really outshine 3 ticks of 4k burning for 3 seconds lol? So conditions are weak because you can’t get a tick as high as a backstab?!? Sounds like the typical condition roamer.

Tell you what, it’s fair this way because maybe a 12k backstab requires full glass builds, while a 12k over 3 seconds burning stack can be done while in Terminator armor. Btw we aren’t even talking about how much DPS is possible when several conditions are ticking lmfao.

Yeah, but you need to put several stacks of these condi to make them tick THAT high, and they are likely to be cleared before you reach that point by any semi decent player that knows he can run condi clears to counter condis. Your response is a typical response of a zerker player who refuse to run condi clears because “i’ll lose muh deeps”.

I’ll tell you what. I run zerker mesmer and the only condi build that give me trouble is the condition chronomancer. This one is broken beyond repair, no doubt. But even dire/trailblazer necros fall short simply because instead of running domination line for dem high crits, I run inspiration for sustain and condi clears.

Zerk doesn’t imply no clears genius.

And yes I agree that condition mesmer is the biggest offender and has been for literally years at this point. This patch’s condi war could also be a problem if it weren’t so easy to kite. Every time I duo with my condi war friend everyone ignores him and focuses me