Guild Wars 2

Condition builds are hard capped by the class, low risk but high reward. Power builds are capped by the players skill.

Satements such as "dire armor outputs three times the damage of soldiers " or “dire does more damage than soldiers” are generalizations not supported by the facts.

There are far too many variables that go into making a build. If I have a high boon duration warrior I can all but neutralize conditions with the use of resistance and berserkers stance. There no way a Condition build can out damage that warrior.

A warrior just as further example can get the equivalent of 900 precision without traiting it in armor and weapons at all. A thief can get on the order of 500 ferocity without any ferocity gear.

My own thief with a low crit rate can generate 6k PIs and 6K bounding dodgers, the Interrupt for the cost of 4 ini. A thief in dire can not generate anywhere near that damage using 4 ini and conditions.

On my thief I can trait enough condition cleanse to counter virtually all condition builds outside the mesmer. There not as many ways for a condition thief to counter my power attacks.

Put a DB condie thief wearing shamans gear against a DB condie thief in DIre and the Shamans will win all the time. Indeed he will beat most Condi builds or fight them to a draw. This does not mean Shamans pumps out more damage. Put a d/p thief in Valk (toughness does not make a difference against conditions) against that shamans thief and shamans goes down to any half decent player.

if there a problem with Conditions it specific professions. Not the armor.

babazhook.6805:

If I have a high boon duration warrior I can all but neutralize conditions with the use of resistance and berserkers stance. There no way a Condition build can out damage that warrior.

Boon ripping says otherwise.

Jeknar.6184:

babazhook.6805:

If I have a high boon duration warrior I can all but neutralize conditions with the use of resistance and berserkers stance. There no way a Condition build can out damage that warrior.

Boon ripping says otherwise.

No it does not. The boons are buried benath other boons. You get at it eventually but then it ready to load again. The Thief can take away three every 25 seconds…they can be reapplied faster. The Mesmer can use his own null field. That a poor ripper as it gets one per pulse. Arcane theivery is a 35 second cooldown. I faced a mesmer trying this and he could not keep up with re apps.

Best against it is Necro which can be a good fight depending on traits of the Necro but the warrior still got cleanses when going into zerk mode .

Okay I dont want to be rude, but someone above claim that Soldier is equal to Dire. What have i missed? I cant qoute all of you but please.

Soldier in WVW is Garbage, you will feel like a garbage can, your damage will be out regen by all classes. I dont even think the name Soldier is applicable.

Dire on the other hand…

XerMeLL.6042:

Okay I dont want to be rude, but someone above claim that Soldier is equal to Dire. What have i missed?

Mostly bad players complaining about conditions using bad arguments from 3 years ago.

Casual Wars 2, people need to faceroll. Based on the general direction of the game I don’t think that’s even really an argument at this stage.

Jeknar.6184:

I’m still waiting someone to name which condition skill can burst like Decapitate, Gunflame, Backstab, Mindwrack, Coalescence of Ruin, etc. Even with several stacks of burn, the strongest condition atm, I haven’t seen a 12k tick (maybe if I /sleep under a mortar like the people on this forum seen to do). But I’ve been hit with 12k by these skills.

A tRex Necro can drop 30+ stacks of bleed on your head from a small skirmish crew. On multiple occasions I have ticked so hard my ancestors felt it.

In 1v1, Condi Chronos can easily apply 15 stacks of condi on a player. Activate a skill or two and dead. Plus this can all be done behind a bunker build. The only power equivalent are Boon Duration builds which are OP as well.

Condis seems stronger because what is actually overpowered is mitigation. Healing, blocks, dodges, boons, rite of the great dwarf.

Anyone who says to nerf condi doesnt actually understand the problem with WvW right now. If mitigation was like the old days, you would see a HUGE amount of glassier build. Those glassier builds would counterbalance the condies.

unfortunately, this and most forums are filled with t1 players who get informaton second hand from their braindead commanders. you won’t hear mitigation being brought up as the real issue, because it allows population with minimal planning to roll through any smaller group.

Smaller groups like trex use conditions because it’s what works. Go back in time to AoN who also did small group stuff vs zerg, and their method was extreme power damage. Small groups will always use what works, and mitigation has completely ruled out small man power groups vs much larger numbers.

Straegen.2938:

A tRex Necro can drop 30+ stacks of bleed on your head from a small skirmish crew. On multiple occasions I have ticked so hard my ancestors felt it.

That’s 1vX for what I can tell. No necro can apply 30 bleeds by himself faster to even be equivalent to you be 2 shot by a power revenant. I can also take power spikes from multiple players and die even faster.

Straegen.2938:

In 1v1, Condi Chronos can easily apply 15 stacks of condi on a player. Activate a skill or two and dead. Plus this can all be done behind a bunker build. The only power equivalent are Boon Duration builds which are OP as well.

Condition chronomances, while extremely broken, unless they are very well built (to apply other conditions to make it harder to clear the core conditions) they make it easy to remove confusion and torment. Honesltly, I just struggle to that build because of the constant reaplication of massive ammounts, somenthing other builds aren’t capable of.

Seriously people… HoT brought so much power to power builds that I don’t even know why there is so much crying about condis anymore… Aside From Condi Chronos and Chill Damage Reapers, there is no condi build I actually fear in HoT.

Jeknar.6184:

That’s 1vX for what I can tell. No necro can apply 30 bleeds by himself faster to even be equivalent to you be 2 shot by a power revenant. I can also take power spikes from multiple players and die even faster.

Quote from Waffle on this tactic:

1. Load up an immobile target such as a necro, guardian, non-shiro rev. For our wombo combo this ends up being like 15-20 poison, 10ish burn, 15ish bleeds, anywhere from 10-20 torment, some confusion from corrupting retal, and all the other nondamaging conditions.
2. Press Epidemic (multiply conditions for however many necro/reaper use it)
3. Stow weapon and watch everyone die.

The condi is amplified with this dynamic. One second you are fighting against four guys with eight on your side everyone nearly full health, then everyone is dead. I don’t mean a few seconds later. I mean everyone just hits the dirt at once with no take-backsies.

Straegen.2938:

Condition chronomances, while extremely broken, unless they are very well built (to apply other conditions to make it harder to clear the core conditions) they make it easy to remove confusion and torment. Honesltly, I just struggle to that build because of the constant reaplication of massive ammounts, somenthing other builds aren’t capable of.

There are no power builds that I worry about killing me. None of them have substantial burst to cut through 3k plus armor and 20k-30k health. I can reset pretty much any power fight on most classes using defensive sustain, mobility, stealth or outright healing. I have few builds that can handle heavy condi applicators.

My dire or dire hybrid builds are not giving up much in the way of damage while retaining extremely high defense. Much like Boon Duration Warriors, I see very little trade off for going bunker.

Straegen.2938:

There are no power builds that I worry about killing me. None of them have substantial burst to cut through 3k plus armor and 20k-30k health. I can reset pretty much any power fight on most classes using defensive sustain, mobility, stealth or outright healing. I have few builds that can handle heavy condi applicators.

At this point this is no longer a issue with conditions but how a thief as be able to reset a fight at will. And if you are having to reset fights even when you running so heavy in defensive stats, I definetely belive that the issue isn’t power being weak.

Straegen.2938:

Jeknar.6184:

That’s 1vX for what I can tell. No necro can apply 30 bleeds by himself faster to even be equivalent to you be 2 shot by a power revenant. I can also take power spikes from multiple players and die even faster.

Quote from Waffle on this tactic:

1. Load up an immobile target such as a necro, guardian, non-shiro rev. For our wombo combo this ends up being like 15-20 poison, 10ish burn, 15ish bleeds, anywhere from 10-20 torment, some confusion from corrupting retal, and all the other nondamaging conditions.
2. Press Epidemic (multiply conditions for however many necro/reaper use it)
3. Stow weapon and watch everyone die.

The condi is amplified with this dynamic. One second you are fighting against four guys with eight on your side everyone nearly full health, then everyone is dead. I don’t mean a few seconds later. I mean everyone just hits the dirt at once with no take-backsies.

Straegen.2938:

Condition chronomances, while extremely broken, unless they are very well built (to apply other conditions to make it harder to clear the core conditions) they make it easy to remove confusion and torment. Honesltly, I just struggle to that build because of the constant reaplication of massive ammounts, somenthing other builds aren’t capable of.

There are no power builds that I worry about killing me. None of them have substantial burst to cut through 3k plus armor and 20k-30k health. I can reset pretty much any power fight on most classes using defensive sustain, mobility, stealth or outright healing. I have few builds that can handle heavy condi applicators.

My dire or dire hybrid builds are not giving up much in the way of damage while retaining extremely high defense. Much like Boon Duration Warriors, I see very little trade off for going bunker.

Enemy have resistance on anyways so epidemic does 0 damage. Of course if they don’t have resistance they can’t play and deserve lose fight.

Jeknar.6184:

At this point this is no longer a issue with conditions but how a thief as be able to reset a fight at will. And if you are having to reset fights even when you running so heavy in defensive stats, I definetely belive that the issue isn’t power being weak.

Power in a 1v1 setting is only dangerous to other power builds. Meta bunker builds do not get powered down outside of condi or outnumbered. All of my builds now revolve around a bunker design with the DPS approaching a pure power build. I don’t even have to watch my health bar in an even numbered fight unless a condi build is around. This is for all the classes I play not just thief.

Take the thief, I burn down players nearly as fast on my condi thief as my friend does on his S/P power build. More importantly I can stand in on any 1v1 power build without having to reset. Most of the time I can wail on 2+ guys and remain relatively unharmed. Sure there are some class/builds I cannot beat but they cannot beat me either.

Junkpile.7439:

Enemy have resistance on anyways so epidemic does 0 damage. Of course if they don’t have resistance they can’t play and deserve lose fight.

Which is why those Necros in that crew run Corrupt Boon. Load em up then corrupt any boon spam. It is the most efficient skirmish crew I have seen and the only one I actively avoid. There is no counter I am aware of aside from a substantially larger force with a lot of cleanse.

Straegen.2938:

Which is why those Necros in that crew run Corrupt Boon. Load em up then corrupt any boon spam. It is the most efficient skirmish crew I have seen and the only one I actively avoid. There is no counter I am aware of aside from a substantially larger force with a lot of cleanse.

Yeah with a group built for this it’s insane. Anyone that loses resistance for even a tick or 2 is dead. If you happen to lose a rev (which is probably piled with condis anyway due to pain absorption) you’re going to lose the whole sub squad. Not fun to fight at all.