Guild Wars 2

Its time to nerf em, you know its true.

Why? They are just as glassy as full Zerker specs if they play with Viper and a pretty good counter to toughness stackers, while my thief can 3 hit people with dagger and is a pretty good counter to people who don’t stack toughness.

They seem more or less on par with eachother only both counter other builds obviously.

Nah, anyone with range can at least soft counter them.

Kousetsu.1627:

Why? They are just as glassy as full Zerker specs if they play with Viper and a pretty good counter to toughness stackers, while my thief can 3 hit people with dagger and is a pretty good counter to people who don’t stack toughness.

They seem more or less on par with eachother only both counter other builds obviously.

Thief only can hit 2 people with dagger, and that’s only their auto attack. Unless for some reason you’re talking about death blossom, which would not support your argument anyway…

Either way, these two things aren’t comparable, so not sure what you’re going for here.

Deathly chill just needs a nerf back to where it was then necros will be fine. Heck I would support a buff to deathly chill that isn’t just a straight dps buff.

The fact of the matter is, with DC as it currently is, in order to maximize dps a necro doesn’t need to even think. You can use all your shouts at basically the same time and then go into shroud and spam abilities. It is incredibly punishing to opponents without requiring skill on the necros part.

If anet doesn’t want to nerf deathly chill, then the condi stack limit needs to be looked at at least on players. The reason you see so many condi necros atm is a combination of the fact deathly chill is overtuned and that there isn’t any dps loss for just putting more necros into your group. They all end up increasing your damage output with no drop off.

Bigpapasmurf.5623:

Nah, anyone with range can at least soft counter them.

Have to agree here. OP, what class(s) are you running that is giving you the most grief and where are you encountering them at ? Solo/Groups/Zerg?

Just rework conditions to what power builds have to do, grab multiple stats to build up power, not just 1 and rest tanky stats.

Offair.2563:

Just rework conditions to what power builds have to do, grab multiple stats to build up power, not just 1 and rest tanky stats.

Well…trailblazer is technically more than just 1 offensive condi stat, however still a bit tanky so your point would be somewhat valid :p

Bigpapasmurf.5623:

Offair.2563:

Just rework conditions to what power builds have to do, grab multiple stats to build up power, not just 1 and rest tanky stats.

Well…trailblazer is technically more than just 1 offensive condi stat, however still a bit tanky so your point would be somewhat valid :p

That one is not available in Spvp and i wonder why. /s

Offair.2563:

Just rework conditions to what power builds have to do, grab multiple stats to build up power, not just 1 and rest tanky stats.

Do people even use trailblazer on necro? Cause it costs an ungodly amount of money thanks to maguuma lilly. Meta wvw reaper uses celestial, I’ve seen some reapers go a mix of carrion, viper and trailblazer backpiece (which you dont need to craft) + 1 other toughness item such as a ring to push the armor over 2100, which is a mere 200 above base. I personally prefer full viper gear + sinister backpiece for 100% more duration on chill and bleeds for solo roaming.

Condi dura doesn’t really help that much because condis get cleansed after couple sec anyways.

Well in that sense, Dire would be better then Trailblazer. And yes they do get cleansed, but one person can only have so much cleanses and necro is pretty good at kittenting them out non stop. So when they stick, they start to chunk players really quick.

Helly.2597:

Deathly chill just needs a nerf back to where it was then necros will be fine. Heck I would support a buff to deathly chill that isn’t just a straight dps buff.

No it’s far more simple than that.

Deathly chill needs to be balanced for PvP in WvW.

It’s just 1 stack in sPvP yet 3 stacks in WvW which completely kitten up balance.

For people saying “huehue ranged counter them”, 1v1 isnt the issue. People can kite, people can fight and at the very least come close to killing necros. Sure some foes will snap like twigs but anti-condi builds can kill them. The issue is that their bleed damage become exponentially insane the more necros you throw into the mix. To equal the bleeding damage 20 zerg necros have today, you needed 60 necros prepatch. No zerg had that. Well unless maybe it was a necro raid but even then not everyone would run cancer build.

And here I just let necros writhe around for a little bit before I walk up and stab them. :/

Dawdler.8521:

Helly.2597:

Deathly chill just needs a nerf back to where it was then necros will be fine. Heck I would support a buff to deathly chill that isn’t just a straight dps buff.

No it’s far more simple than that.

Deathly chill needs to be balanced for PvP in WvW.

It’s just 1 stack in sPvP yet 3 stacks in WvW which completely kitten up balance.

For people saying “huehue ranged counter them”, 1v1 isnt the issue. People can kite, people can fight and at the very least come close to killing necros. Sure some foes will snap like twigs but anti-condi builds can kill them. The issue is that their bleed damage become exponentially insane the more necros you throw into the mix. To equal the bleeding damage 20 zerg necros have today, you needed 60 necros prepatch. No zerg had that. Well unless maybe it was a necro raid but even then not everyone would run cancer build.

You do know that’s exactly what I said right just in a less condescending tone? Revert back means back to 1 stack like spvp has it currently.

People again seem to forget what forum their in. Yes you can roam in WvW, yes you can small group fight, but lets be honest here, WvW is larger group fighting. The amount of “immune” to conditions floating around in larger group fights is far over the top. What purpose do 20 necros serve in a zerg if every single condition they try to dump on the enemy turns out “immune”

If Anet decides to make the bleed stacks 1 instead of 3, then they need to either remove immunity from conditions, or only allow it to tick for a very short duration without it being re-applied.

Offair.2563:

Bigpapasmurf.5623:

Offair.2563:

Just rework conditions to what power builds have to do, grab multiple stats to build up power, not just 1 and rest tanky stats.

Well…trailblazer is technically more than just 1 offensive condi stat, however still a bit tanky so your point would be somewhat valid :p

That one is not available in Spvp and i wonder why. /s

Wanderer ammy?

condi reaper is god because he can fart 1000 conditions at once and condition removals only remove a 1 by 1 and not stacking ones first. That need to be changed, condi removal first remove stacking dmging condies then the rest.

never seen power reapoer, why? cause everyone and their mother abusing condition build.

My condi reaper can’t fart 1000 conditions. Maybe nerf build that can and stop ruining other people builds? You can’t just nerf whole class because some lamers use lamer builds.

Ragnarox.9601:

condi reaper is god because he can fart 1000 conditions at once and condition removals only remove a 1 by 1 and not stacking ones first. That need to be changed, condi removal first remove stacking dmging condies then the rest.

never seen power reapoer, why? cause everyone and their mother abusing condition build.

I actually recently made friends with a DPS reaper on an opposing server. He was really good.

Bigpapasmurf.5623:

Ragnarox.9601:

condi reaper is god because he can fart 1000 conditions at once and condition removals only remove a 1 by 1 and not stacking ones first. That need to be changed, condi removal first remove stacking dmging condies then the rest.

never seen power reapoer, why? cause everyone and their mother abusing condition build.

I actually recently made friends with a DPS reaper on an opposing server. He was really good.

Hmmm..most reapers lately I run into are power but that’s just me

It’s just deathly chill. PvE oriented change that should have never been.

I was roaming with a friend and ran into a condi reaper 4 man, and oddly enough we wiped them once before they regrouped and got us defending the camp we claimed. Anyways, yea. We were commenting on how ridiculous it was to see that.

Offair.2563:

Just rework conditions to what power builds have to do, grab multiple stats to build up power, not just 1 and rest tanky stats.

Pointless. Ever heard of viper / sinister ? That’d be a waste of dev time on top of which it would end up driving many people away from WVW (see sPVP and what happened when ceirtain amulets were removed).

Surprise ! Most of that got good or at least those that got decent at it don’t run full tank, we run either offensive or hybrid (mixed) gear.

Only time we actually intentionally go full tank is during group play when we’re vastly outnumbered or have a completely screwed up comp with no support or sustain (not enough guards / revs / heals), but then our DPS is definetly lower since to generate extra chills and extra bleeds you need a decent crit rate. All those extra chills / bleeds come from Chilling Nova, Barbed Precision, and often sigils / runes all relaying on crit. There is a difference here in that in group play you don’t need to have a high crit rate, 25-30% will do, whereas in solo / small scale it needs to be a lot higher, around 40-50%. This is just how the practical application works out cause of target proximity to each other in larger groups and supportive boon spam including fury. This is why you see more glassy reapers in roaming and small scale and more tanky ones in groups.

lets nerf necros out of a roaming spot
cuz learning animations is hard

Tongku.5326:

…Only time we actually intentionally go full tank is during group play when we’re vastly outnumbered…

Oh man, I sure wish I could go full soldier on my power professions and do anything remotely threatening at all.

Stand The Wall.6987:

lets nerf necros out of a roaming spot
cuz learning animations is hard

yea learning 1/2 cast time is such easy task to do. But they will nerf codi reaper untill next xpac it was leaked. Enjoy while it lasts (like trapper condi thief).

Stand The Wall.6987:

lets nerf necros out of a roaming spot
cuz learning animations is hard

Runes of the Reaper.
“Rise”
“Suffer”
“You are all Weaklings”
[Swap Weapon] – Sigil of Geomancy. Sigil of Hydromancy.

18 Bleeds. Zero activation time. Learning GW2 is hard.

Turk.5460:

Stand The Wall.6987:

lets nerf necros out of a roaming spot
cuz learning animations is hard

Runes of the Reaper.
“Rise”
“Suffer”
“You are all Weaklings”
[Swap Weapon] – Sigil of Geomancy. Sigil of Hydromancy.

18 Bleeds. Zero activation time. Learning GW2 is hard.

L2 cleanse.

Lahmia.2193:

L2 cleanse.

I don’t know what your reply is hoping to accomplish.

I was merely pointing out that learning animations has little to do with the complaints people have been making in this context.

ArchonWing.9480:

It’s just deathly chill. PvE oriented change that should have never been.

This. Honestly, non-roamer condi reapers never really drew my attention more than anything else until deathly chill got buffed some 4-5 months ago. That buff from 1 to 3 stacks that tipped the scales.

Reading back on the patch notes, Archon is doubly right… it does claim “Increased bleed stacks to 3 for 5 seconds in PvE only.”

Turk.5460:

Lahmia.2193:

L2 cleanse.

I don’t know what your reply is hoping to accomplish.

I was merely pointing out that learning animations has little to do with the complaints people have been making in this context.

Ok long answer then. All that is in one instance and applies 3 conditions in total; chill, bleed, weakness. Even if you take every hit and somehow don’t dodge any of it, you can easily cleanse it.

Lahmia.2193:

Ok long answer then. All that is in one instance and applies 3 conditions in total; chill, bleed, weakness. Even if you take every hit and somehow don’t dodge any of it, you can easily cleanse it.

Sure, if the reaper was a potato and used that as their opener…

Turk.5460:

Tongku.5326:

…Only time we actually intentionally go full tank is during group play when we’re vastly outnumbered…

Oh man, I sure wish I could go full soldier on my power professions and do anything remotely threatening at all.

Thats your personal L2P issue. All my guard builds, all my rev builds and most of my mes builds except 1 are power based and do very well.

My Engi / Scrapper is either or, whatever and whenever suits my mood.

My war, ele and druid are power as well, though I don’t get to run them much anymore due to heavy and chaotic work schedule, so I don’t have a very good gauge on them.

You should really either visit your profession forums, or ask in your server TS, or better yet both and run with some people that know what they’re doing and can help you out and teach you a bit.

P.S. I love having the additional choices, even if don’t get to play them due to my time limitations, I still hop on them once in a while just for novelty and it rocks.

Lahmia.2193:

Turk.5460:

Stand The Wall.6987:

lets nerf necros out of a roaming spot
cuz learning animations is hard

Runes of the Reaper.
“Rise”
“Suffer”
“You are all Weaklings”
[Swap Weapon] – Sigil of Geomancy. Sigil of Hydromancy.

18 Bleeds. Zero activation time. Learning GW2 is hard.

L2 cleanse.

when a condi reaper farts condies like chill, weakness, vulnerable, cripple, 20 bleed your condi removals remove weakness and vulnerable and bleed still persist. L2 cleanse is just ameteur thing to say.

Player toughness reduces incoming condition duration. Protection reduces incoming condition duration by 33%. Dodge gives you 1s of resistance.
Condi fixed.

Ragnarox.9601:

Lahmia.2193:

Turk.5460:

Stand The Wall.6987:

lets nerf necros out of a roaming spot
cuz learning animations is hard

Runes of the Reaper.
“Rise”
“Suffer”
“You are all Weaklings”
[Swap Weapon] – Sigil of Geomancy. Sigil of Hydromancy.

18 Bleeds. Zero activation time. Learning GW2 is hard.

L2 cleanse.

when a condi reaper farts condies like chill, weakness, vulnerable, cripple, 20 bleed your condi removals remove weakness and vulnerable and bleed still persist. L2 cleanse is just ameteur thing to say.

Also do not forget you cleanse those and you instantly get them back because the spamming application of conditions.
While your cleanse is on 30 seconds CD.

When classes (not only the Reaper) can apply 3 different types of damaging conditions in an ranged AA with 1/2 sec CD in this game you can’t keep up with the cleansing.

Gw2 wasn’t designed for the condi wars. To fight the actual game state all the cleanses should apply resistance from 5 up to 15 seconds for each one.

anduriell.6280:

Ragnarox.9601:

Lahmia.2193:

Turk.5460:

Stand The Wall.6987:

lets nerf necros out of a roaming spot
cuz learning animations is hard

Runes of the Reaper.
“Rise”
“Suffer”
“You are all Weaklings”
[Swap Weapon] – Sigil of Geomancy. Sigil of Hydromancy.

18 Bleeds. Zero activation time. Learning GW2 is hard.

L2 cleanse.

when a condi reaper farts condies like chill, weakness, vulnerable, cripple, 20 bleed your condi removals remove weakness and vulnerable and bleed still persist. L2 cleanse is just ameteur thing to say.

Also do not forget you cleanse those and you instantly get them back because the spamming application of conditions.
While your cleanse is on 30 seconds CD.

When classes (not only the Reaper) can apply 3 different types of damaging conditions in an ranged AA with 1/2 sec CD in this game you can’t keep up with the cleansing.

Gw2 wasn’t designed for the condi wars. To fight the actual game state all the cleanses should apply resistance from 5 up to 15 seconds for each one.

I would rather see Toughness decrease condi duration by 33% or protection decrease condition dmg by 33%.

Ragnarox.9601:

anduriell.6280:

Ragnarox.9601:

Lahmia.2193:

Turk.5460:

Stand The Wall.6987:

lets nerf necros out of a roaming spot
cuz learning animations is hard

Runes of the Reaper.
“Rise”
“Suffer”
“You are all Weaklings”
[Swap Weapon] – Sigil of Geomancy. Sigil of Hydromancy.

18 Bleeds. Zero activation time. Learning GW2 is hard.

L2 cleanse.

when a condi reaper farts condies like chill, weakness, vulnerable, cripple, 20 bleed your condi removals remove weakness and vulnerable and bleed still persist. L2 cleanse is just ameteur thing to say.

Also do not forget you cleanse those and you instantly get them back because the spamming application of conditions.
While your cleanse is on 30 seconds CD.

When classes (not only the Reaper) can apply 3 different types of damaging conditions in an ranged AA with 1/2 sec CD in this game you can’t keep up with the cleansing.

Gw2 wasn’t designed for the condi wars. To fight the actual game state all the cleanses should apply resistance from 5 up to 15 seconds for each one.

I would rather see Toughness decrease condi duration by 33% or protection decrease condition dmg by 33%.

Yes i was going to the extreme there.

Actually is been talked for healing power to decrease condition damage and duration (1% every 100 points?).

Personally i wouldn’t like Toughness to diminish condi damage as you are overcharging one stat in favor of all tanks.

Same as is happening to Resistance which is overtunned to compensate somehow the broken balance.

anduriell.6280:

Personally i wouldn’t like Toughness to diminish condi damage as you are overcharging one stat in favor of all tanks.

Tank sacrifices his other stats to become tanky. So, why he shouldn’t be?

Rednik.3809:

anduriell.6280:

Personally i wouldn’t like Toughness to diminish condi damage as you are overcharging one stat in favor of all tanks.

Tank sacrifices his other stats to become tanky. So, why he shouldn’t be?

Sure let’s make trailblazzer/Dire builds even more tankier.

Or go Soldier’s in a high power coefficient class like warrior and that could be a really bad joke.

To make sure we don’t repeat the trailblazer/dire drama the condition damage reduction should be applied to another stat which combinations doesn’t make absurd builds. Stats/boons which reduce physical damage must not reduce condition damage as well.

It is true a warrior could go Cleric for power/toughness/healing but then it would miss the extra hp needed to actually make a Juggernaut.

Tongku.5326:

Turk.5460:

Tongku.5326:

…Only time we actually intentionally go full tank is during group play when we’re vastly outnumbered…

Oh man, I sure wish I could go full soldier on my power professions and do anything remotely threatening at all.

Thats your personal L2P issue. All my guard builds, all my rev builds and most of my mes builds except 1 are power based and do very well.

My Engi / Scrapper is either or, whatever and whenever suits my mood.

My war, ele and druid are power as well, though I don’t get to run them much anymore due to heavy and chaotic work schedule, so I don’t have a very good gauge on them.

You should really either visit your profession forums, or ask in your server TS, or better yet both and run with some people that know what they’re doing and can help you out and teach you a bit.

P.S. I love having the additional choices, even if don’t get to play them due to my time limitations, I still hop on them once in a while just for novelty and it rocks.

This is a L2Read issue for you, buddy.

You’re saying your power professions perform well in full soldier’s gear? Because I guarantee they don’t.

40 bleed stacks on me later I wonder why this exists in the first place (this is one reaper).

Slow Clap for ANet

just wondering, do you guys think zerk builds 1 shotting ppl should be nerfed too?

Stand The Wall.6987:

just wondering, do you guys think zerk builds 1 shotting ppl should be nerfed too?

Power (and condi) creep as a whole needs to nerfed. But, I doubt that will ever happen.

I do enjoy 1 shotting ppl w/ a glass mesmer, but it does require somewhat precise setup and uses a lot of CDs. If the burst fails for any reason, I’m usually at a big disadvantage assuming the target isn’t a baddie.

I’d be ok with burst damage being toned down only if we were compensated with better sustained damage. Power mesmer is already difficult enough to play well compared to condi mesmer and most other classes. The last thing it needs is to be nerfed w/o being equally compensated elsewhere.

Stealthing daredevils need to go, you know why.
Its time to nerf ’em, you know its true.

When I hear about any class being nerfed for unneeded reasons:

Learn how to fight them. Adapt by altering your builds. Meta builds are not god mode builds, its merely builds that can work in the right hands, which could also technically be any build out there.

Many people don’t want to change as they wouldn’t be Meta then, or then they have to learn to go without certain skills/stats…etc. Its like working for an IT place, saying something is too hard for you to do so demand that the company change it. Sorry to say buttercup but if you don’t want to adapt, you are on your own.

There are ways to beat any build/class with any build/class. Couldn’t tell ya how long it took me to learn to beat my counter builds/classes. Ive changed my build many times, and changed my playstyle. Every build has a counter (whether soft or hard) and every class has access to those weaknesses but a lot of people don’t want to change to do it.

I never understood how condi damage is spammy yet power damage is not spammy.

It sort of is what it is, but oooh the zerg fights we hade before the condi meta arrived. So much fun. The big clashes.